Blacklist

[CelestialBody]

Digging

 

[Cheyenne]

why?

 

[Problem Child]

cuz she's sopping wet for DCL?

*shrugs* just a guess...

 

[KillerMuffin]

cuz she's sopping wet for DCL?

*smiles banally* Aren't we all?

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Problem Child]

*smiles banally* Aren't we all?

uhhh...no.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Oh come on, PC, not even a little?

Drat.

I'm not sure exactly what Jane Fonda-esque person might be up for a Hollywood Star, but I think being affiliated with the Communist party in some way might not be the only factor preventing her from getting a star. If it's Jane Fonda, there's that little episode of treason and then touring a POW camp during the war with American POW's in it, then handing a painstakingly crafted note over to the Viet-cong.

Before we get all excited about rights that are getting thrashed, we should consider that there might actually be some things we don't know.

We are going to lose some privacy. It's not only the knee-jerk reaction to curbing a terrorist threat, it may actually be necessary in some ways. What's more important to you? Not having Echelon read your email or catching terrorists? That's the question on the Hill right now. Sacrifices must be made for security. The more security you want, the more sacrifices must be made. That's about the size of it. I am, personally, quite all right with the present level of security.

I believe that hunting down terrorists that are not only known to be here, but have proven their existence is somewhat different than McCarthyism, which was nothing more than a persecutarial witch hunt for bogeymen that did not exist.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[*Lazer*]

Nope Cheyenne not me either.

 

[shadowsource]

This isn't about a former "communist!"

This is about someone who squealed for HUAC, or who is closely identified with someone who testified. DCL's friend's problem is not that she was ever left wing; it's that she is seen as someone who knuckled under to the authoritarians in Congress and blacklisters in Hollywood (which included, very prominently, Ronald Reagan). Is this correct, DCL?

A friend of mine was a key leader in the effort to honor Elia Kazan. I watched carefully when Kazan got his Oscar, and I was disappointed indeed that he didn't address the problem. He could have made it a lot better for everyone had he said that he did something regrettable while under enormous, unconscionable pressure, and that he prayed that no artist would ever again find himself or herself in such a position in America. He didn't say anything of consequence, proving - to my satisfaction - that he didn't deserve recognition.

The truth is that the people who testified in the witchhunt unfairly improved their competitive position vs.other artists, knowing that what they were saying was WRONG (I have less against the ones who were true fanatics). Some estimable artists' lives were truly smashed to bits, while mediocrities thrived. This problem will haunt Hollywood forever. As it should. I'm sorry for your friend, but she should read LORD JIM, by Joseph Conrad. Courage is forever.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

DCL's friend's problem is not that she was ever left wing; it's that she is seen as someone who knuckled under to the authoritarians in Congress and blacklisters in Hollywood (which included, very prominently, Ronald Reagan). Is this correct, DCL?

Somewhat. I can't say more without revealing who it is. But before anyone offers more hindsight advice I should point out that the event was extremely early in the House Un-American Activites Committee investigation, and it had not received the notoriety it did later, and no one could possibly have guessed at anything like a "blacklist". It was just something to "get through" and move on. No one took it seriously at first. People made awful, awful mistakes.

As far as the whole giving up our civil liberties issue goes, I think the Blacklist is a good analogy of what could happen, because Hollywood is constantly worried about government and advertiser interference, and will absolutely cave in on a variety of issues (though you can't really "Blacklist" artists anymore -- Hollywood may fear Washington, but it fears their pictures losing money more. Besides, there isn't a chance in HELL the Writer's Guild, SAG and AFTRA would ever allow that to happen again. You can slit my wrists and write that in stone with my blood.)

That being said...

I believe there are a whole host of inconveniences Americans can put up with (and should put up with) both in time of war and in peace time to assure Homeland Security that will in no way infringe upon our civil liberties. We shold certainly be wary, because the government has a history of keeping in place forever "temporary" institutions it creates in times of emergency (Income Tax anyone?)...but I haven't seen credible evidence that any of my Contitutional rights are about to be abrigded.

Don't list the proposed restrictions for me. Anybody can "propose" anything. Let's talk again when the ACLU has its say and an actual revised Bill imakes it to the floor.

 

[dza]

Foucault's Pendulum sure, but the Island from the day before - fuck that bullshit - i use it as a door stop (stacked on top of Harlot's Ghost)

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Jesus you made me read this whole thread again just to see what the hell you were talking about.

I've read Foucault's Pendulum four times now. It's on my "new Bible" shelf next to "Origin of Species" and "Why People Believe Weird Things". It's a fabulous book. If they ever make it a movie it 'll suck creek water.

 

[shadowsource]

Not quite...

...the event was extremely early in the House Un-American Activites Committee investigation, and it had not received the notoriety it did later, and no one could possibly have guessed at anything like a "blacklist". It was just something to "get through" and move on. No one took it seriously at first. People made awful, awful mistakes.
Well, too bad it's too late to explain this to Humphrey Bogart, who broke his heart trying to stand up to the early inquiries, and then found himself, his wife Bacall, and his friends being smeared for having flown to DC to denounce the witchhunt. It's always seemed to me why Bogart quit acting - in disgust.

...our civil liberties. We shold certainly be wary, because the government has a history of keeping in place forever "temporary" institutions it creates in times of emergency (Income Tax anyone?)...but I haven't seen credible evidence that any of my Contitutional rights are about to be abrigded.

Don't list the proposed restrictions for me. Anybody can "propose" anything. Let's talk again when the ACLU has its say and an actual revised Bill imakes it to the floor.

I won't list the proposed restrictions because they AREN'T PUTTING THEM ON PAPER YET! That's what the good representatives, both left and right, were telling Ashcroft Monday in Congress: How can we vote on a bill that's not even written down yet? Talk about blank checks....
Your faith glows in the dark, DCL. But it might be better if people actually tried to affect the process, rather than leaving it up to Rehnquist and Scalia as to what is constitutionally acceptable.