Birthright Citizenship Challenge

[HumpDayHoratio]

It appears we’ve misinterpreted the 14th…I wonder why?

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

More truth bombs…

 

[ll74]

It appears we’ve misinterpreted the 14th…I wonder why?

Eastman is misinterpreting the 14th. Because he's a racist fuckhead.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

This ties in with the first post…we’re not looking through the same lens as the people who wrote the law.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Eastman is misinterpreting the 14th. Because he's a racist fuckhead.

Oh, boy…everybody’s a racist…

Will you people ever get tired of that trope?

 

[ll74]

Oh, boy…everybody’s a racist…

Will you people ever get tired of that trope?

The argument is doa. The 14th is already clear. Eastman trying to reinterpret it is the racist bullshit...not a trope.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

The Clause's purpose was to ensure that there would no longer exist in the United States a class of persons relegated to perpetual noncitizen status on the basis of race, despite not owing allegiance to any other foreign or tribal power. This more limited application of birthright citizenship was adopted by the earliest commentaries on and Supreme Court assessments of the amendment. Supreme Court precedent itself extends only to the premise that the U.S.-born children of lawfully present, permanently domiciled aliens are
citizens even where the parents are excluded from naturalization.

Tell me how this is racist again? This interpretation was from SCOTUS then.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I tend to agree with you that it isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Rightguide]

Trump cancelled Biden's EO allowing Trans people in the military, he shuts down the White House Office of Gun Control as well.

Because there's always been a sense, kindasorta, that Indian nations are not quite under U.S. jurisdiction even when completely under U.S. power. See the language of the Constitution excluding "Indians not taxed" from the population counts under the 3/5 Compromise.

This has never been consistent -- their "sovereignty" allows Indian nations to operate casinos in states where gambling is illegal, but it does not exempt them from state taxes, or keep state or county LEOs out of the reservation.

But, but, but, they were born here, and everyone who is born here is a citizen! No they aren't.

 

[Rightguide]

How many challenges to the 14th amendment have been brought?

If it's as simple as you suggest, why haven't there been more?

SCOTUS will decide
You won't be happy

SCOTUS decided in 1898.

 

[Hel_Books]

Because there's always been a sense, kindasorta, that Indian nations are not quite under U.S. jurisdiction even when completely under U.S. power. See the language of the Constitution excluding "Indians not taxed" from the population counts under the 3/5 Compromise.

This has never been consistent -- their "sovereignty" allows Indian nations to operate casinos in states where gambling is illegal, but it does not exempt them from state taxes, or keep state or county LEOs out of the reservation.

What I've read says that the exceptions are rather specific, such as the children of foreign diplomats born on USA territory ("diplomatic immunity") the children of foreign military occupiers (if the Japanese had occupied Hawaii in WWII any children of their soldiers born in Hawaii would not automatically become citizens of the USA) the citizens of various "Indian" territories and so on and so forth. Anybody else standing in the territory of the USA is subject to the jurisdiction, otherwise, for example, a Swedish citizen could rob a bank in Los Angeles and say, "You can't arrest me, I'm not a citizen of the USA, I'm not subject to your jurisdiction!"

 

[ll74]

SCOTUS decided in 1898.

Did it? So why are all of these people who are born in the US, citizens?

 

[Politruk]

This ties in with the first post…we’re not looking through the same lens as the people who wrote the law.

Originalism is never anything more than ventriloquism in a cemetery.

 

[Rightguide]

Did it? So why are all of these people who are born in the US, citizens?

Technically, they aren't if their parents were illegal aliens.

 

[ll74]

Technically, they aren't if their parents were illegal aliens.

Yes, I get that you believe Eastman's argument.

You're not going to be happy when the courts clarify things

 

[Politruk]

Technically, they aren't if their parents were illegal aliens.

No, the children of undocumented immigrants, if born in the U.S., are subject to U.S. jurisdiction, therefore citizens.

Jus soli birthright citizenship is not going away in your lifetime.

 

[PersonalFavors]

The intent of the amendment is very important. I did not look that far back.
The law was written as to include children of slaves. A very noble reason to include this type person as a citizen. As the slaves were all provided citizenship too.
Being the only country with a law that allows non-citizens to birth here for citizenship I again see this as a very winnable argument. It should be eliminated.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Tell me how this is racist again? This interpretation was from SCOTUS then.

Conservatives have attempted many times through many methods to disenfranchise Negroes from citizenship. The "Born In The USA" clause was the resulting backlash against conservative animosity towards non-whites.

There is not a snowball's chance in Hell of the US Supreme Court retconning the 14th Amendment to claim it is actually the opposite of what it says.

 

[Politruk]

This ties in with the first post…we’re not looking through the same lens as the people who wrote the law.

Don't waste our time with originalism -- it is never anything more than ventriloquism in a cemetery.

 

[PersonalFavors]

Don't waste our time with originalism -- it is never anything more than ventriloquism in a cemetery.

Yes politruk, ignore the facts as you and yours always do.

 

[Politruk]

What I've read says that the exceptions are rather specific, such as the children of foreign diplomats born on USA territory ("diplomatic immunity") the children of foreign military occupiers (if the Japanese had occupied Hawaii in WWII any children of their soldiers born in Hawaii would not automatically become citizens of the USA) the citizens of various "Indian" territories and so on and so forth. Anybody else standing in the territory of the USA is subject to the jurisdiction, otherwise, for example, a Swedish citizen could rob a bank in Los Angeles and say, "You can't arrest me, I'm not a citizen of the USA, I'm not subject to your jurisdiction!"

Then there are the sovereign citizens who think they can individually opt out of the law's jurisdiction.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Being the only country with a law that allows non-citizens to birth here for citizenship I again see this as a very winnable argument. It should be eliminated.

What??? Are you really that ignorant of other countries laws???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law

and dozens of other countries....

 

[ll74]

The intent of the amendment is very important. I did not look that far back.
The law was written as to include children of slaves. A very noble reason to include this type person as a citizen. As the slaves were all provided citizenship too.
Being the only country with a law that allows non-citizens to birth here for citizenship I again see this as a very winnable argument. It should be eliminated.

The amendment was written to include children of slaves. It was not the only intent.

Courts have reinforced this position already and will do so again.

 

[PersonalFavors]

Then there are the sovereign citizens who think they can individually opt out of the law's jurisdiction.

Not for long if they could.
Father citizen, Mother US greencard plus dual citizenship = the kids having the option of for tri-citizenship. Early on there was an advantage to have the Canadian or British citizenship as you could skip through customs in a flash. Now it is better to be American and have your TSA Precheck with Global Entry.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Not for long if they could.
Father citizen, Mother US greencard plus dual citizenship = the kids having the option of for tri-citizenship. Early on there was an advantage to have the Canadian or British citizenship as you could skip through customs in a flash. Now it is better to be American and have your TSA Precheck with Global Entry.

lol the more Trump pisses off other countries the less Americans will be welcome. Kinda like it was back in 60's where American tourist were spat upon hitching around Europe.