Birth control

[DG Hear]

So, just wondering what others think about the birth control issue.

In my sex life, birth control is pretty essential. When I'm not on the pill, he has to use a condom. So, in real life, I always have a conversation about it. But, when I read stories on Literotica, I have never come across any reference to birth control. So, I'm just wondering, why is that?

Do people find birth control to be a turn off?

Personally, I see it as realism.

You must have not read most of my stories. LOL I have my characters use condoms or take birth control pills. If not, there usually is a pregnancy involved. I'll take birth control over abortion anyday.

 

[amicus]

I think I read somewhere that a billion Catholics, according to their faith are instructed not to use any means of artificial birth control....why would you think that is?

I wonder, too if the more than one billion Muslims and Hindi's use any means of artificil birth control

If you treat 'sex' as casual and recreational, somewhat like Prostitutes & Hookers & driven promiscuous individuals, then the risk of pregnancy and/or disease becomes an issue.

Birth control methods have been heralded since the fifties, if not before, always among the Bohemians, who like to play but not pay and I would be hard pressed to support the concept as either stopping pregnancies or diseases according to admittedly varying statistics.

Perhaps as a 'devils advocate', perhaps as a belief, but why has no one mentioned either religion or moral values when discussing artificial birth control methods?

I suggest it reads rather callous to stop and put on a device in the middle of foreplay and why would a man ever ask a woman if she is on birth control pills? She knows and she knows the consequences and has usually been receptive to sexual intercourse long before the event occurs.

Whether writing about it or sharing personal beliefs, mentioning birth control makes a moral statement that one is indifferent concerning sex between two people and seeks only the pleasure, not to experience the meaning.

The Liberals here and the Liberal Media, see, "Trojan Wars", for some vague moral agenda wish to demean and lower the value of a sexual relationship; I wonder why?

Amicus

 

[Verdad]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but mine wasn't a moral statement, nor was it about didactics. It was about artistic effect only, and meant to oppose the idea that either birth control or any other thing automatically do or don't belong in fiction.

There's a kind of character and a kind of situation where birth control is a detail worth including, and plenty of others where it has no place. Like anything else in a story, including birth control can be a part of characterization (are the characters the types to use it? is their relationship of that kind?) or it can bear significance for the plot, or it can be a part of the atmosphere/aesthetic (is it a dreamy, idealized romance or a gritty realist piece?), and so on and so forth. It's neither inherently desirable or inherently undesirable, and it should have the least of all to do with proselytizing either way; it's all about the picture one is trying to paint.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had fun with a co-writer over in the SRP forum, where his character was getting right to the action and mine made him stop and put on a condom. My co-writer was as surprised as his character was! Since his character had already lubed up, the condom slipped right back off, and his character had to get up and stomp into the bathroom to wipe himself dry-- and then we had to hunt for a second rubber, and then get back in the mood.

It worked really well.

 

[amicus]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but mine wasn't a moral statement, nor was it about didactics. It was about artistic effect only, and meant to oppose the idea that either birth control or any other thing automatically do or don't belong in fiction.

There's a kind of character and a kind of situation where birth control is a detail worth including, and plenty of others where it has no place. Like anything else in a story, including birth control can be a part of characterization (are the characters the types to use it? is their relationship of that kind?) or it can bear significance for the plot, or it can be a part of the atmosphere/aesthetic (is it a dreamy, idealized romance or a gritty realist piece?), and so on and so forth. It's neither inherently desirable or inherently undesirable, and it should have the least of all to do with proselytizing either way; it's all about the picture one is trying to paint.[/QUOTE]

~~~~

Everything everyone choose to write involves choice and is by definition, a moral statement. And if you state "It was about artistic effect only..."

What does that mean?

I am aware that virtually no one here will agree with my point of view and those that mildly appreciate will remain silent before the vehement majority, so be it.

I copied and pasted a similar tract on another thread, you need not agree with it, I may not totally agree with it, but it does present a different point of view than that usually expressed on this forum and Verdad, from previous conversations, I sense you follow the reasoning.

If you dismiss Literotica as a Pornography Site and, as so many have said concerning Selena's creating a non erotic publishing company, that they are embarassed to have relations and friends read their work here, then you really do not consider Pornography as having the potential of being Art.

I do.

I recall a piece I read by a friend of Laurem Hynde, in Portugal, and I know her name like the back of my hand but it won't come forth at this moment, perhaps as I type it will come back to me.

And, Verdad, everything is inherently, by definition, desireable or undesireable. There is a very human reason for Art and that includes Literature, of all kinds, like it or not, and it must be judged on a moral and ethical level or not at all.

~~~

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/modern_art.html

The genus of art works is: man-made objects which present a selective recreation of reality according to the artist’s metaphysical value-judgments, by means of a specific material medium.

The species are the works of the various branches of art, defined by the particular media which they employ and which indicate their relation to the various elements of man’s cognitive faculty.

Man’s need of precise definitions rests on the Law of Identity: A is A, a thing is itself. A work of art is a specific entity which possesses a specific nature. If it does not, it is not a work of art. If it is merely a material object, it belongs to some category of material objects—and if it does not belong to any particular category, it belongs to the one reserved for such phenomena: junk.


“Something made by an artist” is not a definition of art. A beard and a vacant stare are not the defining characteristics of an artist.


“Something in a frame hung on a wall” is not a definition of painting.


“Something with a number of pages in a binding” is not a definition of literature.


“Something piled together” is not a definition of sculpture.


“Something made of sounds produced by anything” is not a definition of music.


“Something glued on a flat surface” is not a definition of any art.There is no art that uses glue as a medium. Blades of grass glued on a sheet of paper to represent grass might be good occupational therapy for retarded children—though I doubt it—but it is not art.


“Because I felt like it” is not a definition or validation of anything.[/QUOTE]

There is no place for whim in any human activity—if it is to be regarded as human. There is no place for the unknowable, the unintelligible, the undefinable, the non-objective in any human product. This side of an insane asylum, the actions of a human being are motivated by a conscious purpose; when they are not, they are of no interest to anyone outside a psychotherapist’s office. And when the practitioners of modern art declare that they don’t know what they are doing or what makes them do it, we should take their word for it and give them no further consideration.


“Art and Cognition,” The Romantic Manifesto, 76

~~~

The most important and easy to remember statement above, already bolded, is this: "art is: man-made objects which present a selective recreation of reality according to the artist’s metaphysical value-judgments..."

I have read some very good Literature here at Literotica, I have also read some very bad and yes, I know how to tell the difference. I have also perused the art and drawing section and seen some very artistic works and some that are not.

Although I have already been criticized for moralizing on whether to write about using artificial means to prevent pregnancy and disease, I maintain that is it a moral and ethical issue and every story you write reflects your own metaphysical value judgments, I.E Morality.

Amicus...

 

[impressive]

Condom use can be seamlessly integrated into a story. Have done it. Well. And maintained the sexiness. The book just won the 2009 Next Generation Indie Book Awards in the Erotica category. Link in Bel's sig.

 

[DG Hear]

Condom use can be seamlessly integrated into a story. Have done it. Well. And maintained the sexiness. The book just won the 2009 Next Generation Indie Book Awards in the Erotica category. Link in Bel's sig.

Congrats Impressive! Highest of Kudo's to you. Not an easy accomplishment, but well deserved.
DG

 

[Trudy_Antone]

From my Nude Day entry - "No More Beige"

“Listen,” he said, craning his neck to face her, his expression suddenly serious. “We didn’t use contraception.”
“I’m covered, I’m on the pill.”
“That’s not the only worry.”
She squeezed his bicep in assurance. “Look, apart from the odd yabby, I’m clean.”

“Holy shit,” he eyeballed her. “What are yabbies?”
“You know, kind of like crabs.”
“Jesus. Now you tell me?”

To his credit he didn’t drop her, but she had to laugh when one arm tightened under her leg as he scratched.

“Mate, I’m just giving you shit. A yabby is a sort of miniature fresh water crayfish. You’re safe, believe me. Bit too late to worry about it now anyway.”

He threw her a dirty smile. “Might as well capitalise on this situation then.”
“Too right,” she agreed. “Let’s get going before you shrivel up and drop off.”

“River, you are not comforting me one bit, not by a long shot.”

Cara dissolved in hysterics on his back and he knew he’d been had.

“Well, now that we’ve cleared that up without any need for ointment…shall we go on my Lady?”

 

[Trudy_Antone]

Condom use can be seamlessly integrated into a story. Have done it. Well. And maintained the sexiness. The book just won the 2009 Next Generation Indie Book Awards in the Erotica category. Link in Bel's sig.

Wow, congratulations Impressive!

 

[BallsOfSteel]

So, just wondering what others think about the birth
Personally, I see it as realism.

There's your answer. It's the difference between fantasy and reality. Mentally and emotionally mature adults can tell the difference, kids cannot. This is Literotica, where people read for pleasure. It is not a sex education site. Personally, I love the fact that in fantasies people do not need condoms.

 

[Handley_Page]

Birth control methods have been heralded since the fifties, if not before . . . .

Amicus

The Ancient Egyptians had chemical birth control, as did Medieval England, although, bearing in mind the mortality rate, it wasn't so widely used.
Rich Tudors had a glove-maker stitch up something in chamois leather.

 

[Verdad]

I had fun with a co-writer over in the SRP forum, where his character was getting right to the action and mine made him stop and put on a condom. My co-writer was as surprised as his character was! Since his character had already lubed up, the condom slipped right back off, and his character had to get up and stomp into the bathroom to wipe himself dry-- and then we had to hunt for a second rubber, and then get back in the mood.

It worked really well.

Bloodninja? Is that you?

 

[Verdad]

Everything everyone choose to write involves choice and is by definition, a moral statement. And if you state "It was about artistic effect only..."

What does that mean?

I am aware that virtually no one here will agree with my point of view and those that mildly appreciate will remain silent before the vehement majority, so be it.

I copied and pasted a similar tract on another thread, you need not agree with it, I may not totally agree with it, but it does present a different point of view than that usually expressed on this forum and Verdad, from previous conversations, I sense you follow the reasoning.

If you dismiss Literotica as a Pornography Site and, as so many have said concerning Selena's creating a non erotic publishing company, that they are embarassed to have relations and friends read their work here, then you really do not consider Pornography as having the potential of being Art.

I do.

I recall a piece I read by a friend of Laurem Hynde, in Portugal, and I know her name like the back of my hand but it won't come forth at this moment, perhaps as I type it will come back to me.

And, Verdad, everything is inherently, by definition, desireable or undesireable. There is a very human reason for Art and that includes Literature, of all kinds, like it or not, and it must be judged on a moral and ethical level or not at all.

~~~

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/modern_art.html

The genus of art works is: man-made objects which present a selective recreation of reality according to the artist’s metaphysical value-judgments, by means of a specific material medium. The species are the works of the various branches of art, defined by the particular media which they employ and which indicate their relation to the various elements of man’s cognitive faculty.

Man’s need of precise definitions rests on the Law of Identity: A is A, a thing is itself. A work of art is a specific entity which possesses a specific nature. If it does not, it is not a work of art. If it is merely a material object, it belongs to some category of material objects—and if it does not belong to any particular category, it belongs to the one reserved for such phenomena: junk.


“Something made by an artist” is not a definition of art. A beard and a vacant stare are not the defining characteristics of an artist.


“Something in a frame hung on a wall” is not a definition of painting.


“Something with a number of pages in a binding” is not a definition of literature.


“Something piled together” is not a definition of sculpture.


“Something made of sounds produced by anything” is not a definition of music.


“Something glued on a flat surface” is not a definition of any art.There is no art that uses glue as a medium. Blades of grass glued on a sheet of paper to represent grass might be good occupational therapy for retarded children—though I doubt it—but it is not art.


“Because I felt like it” is not a definition or validation of anything.


There is no place for whim in any human activity—if it is to be regarded as human. There is no place for the unknowable, the unintelligible, the undefinable, the non-objective in any human product. This side of an insane asylum, the actions of a human being are motivated by a conscious purpose; when they are not, they are of no interest to anyone outside a psychotherapist’s office. And when the practitioners of modern art declare that they don’t know what they are doing or what makes them do it, we should take their word for it and give them no further consideration.


“Art and Cognition,” The Romantic Manifesto, 76

~~~

The most important and easy to remember statement above, already bolded, is this: "art is: man-made objects which present a selective recreation of reality according to the artist’s metaphysical value-judgments..."

I have read some very good Literature here at Literotica, I have also read some very bad and yes, I know how to tell the difference. I have also perused the art and drawing section and seen some very artistic works and some that are not.

Although I have already been criticized for moralizing on whether to write about using artificial means to prevent pregnancy and disease, I maintain that is it a moral and ethical issue and every story you write reflects your own metaphysical value judgments, I.E Morality.

Amicus...

Ami, we probably won't agree about birth control, so let's leave that aside, but we can easily agree about art. The definition you quote is very good; it gets no objection from me.

The thing is just, there's a difference between 'what' and 'how', as I said on that other thread, and though it feels a bit silly using condoms as an example, they'll do. They can demonstrate the difference as easily as any other thing.

You, for example, as a writer with a negative stance toward birth control, might still find yourself including a condom in a scene, for your own purposes, reflecting your own values. It might be a scene of a bad guy doin' it; or it might be a scene of a good, unhappy guy doin' it with women he doesn't care for, which will be juxtaposed to the naked trust of a scene where he makes love to his true love, once he finds her. As you've said, condoms evoke callousness for you, so when callousness is what you want to portray, you might make use of them.

By contrast, a writer who doesn't think they're a big deal, might incorporate them in a loving foreplay, since he thinks that's where they belong. Either way, or a million other ways, a condom is just a condom—an object, a motif, a symbol, a word—which various writers will employ (or not) each according to their vision. That's pretty much exactly what the definition says.

The only thing that can be added is that not all results will be equally good; in some stories, the use of this or any other object, motif, symbol, word will appear natural to the characters and the story, while in others it will be forced and reveal the author's hand.

 

[xssve]

I think I read somewhere that a billion Catholics, according to their faith are instructed not to use any means of artificial birth control....why would you think that is?

I wonder, too if the more than one billion Muslims and Hindi's use any means of artificil birth control

If you treat 'sex' as casual and recreational, somewhat like Prostitutes & Hookers & driven promiscuous individuals, then the risk of pregnancy and/or disease becomes an issue.

Birth control methods have been heralded since the fifties, if not before, always among the Bohemians, who like to play but not pay and I would be hard pressed to support the concept as either stopping pregnancies or diseases according to admittedly varying statistics.

Perhaps as a 'devils advocate', perhaps as a belief, but why has no one mentioned either religion or moral values when discussing artificial birth control methods?

I suggest it reads rather callous to stop and put on a device in the middle of foreplay and why would a man ever ask a woman if she is on birth control pills? She knows and she knows the consequences and has usually been receptive to sexual intercourse long before the event occurs.

Whether writing about it or sharing personal beliefs, mentioning birth control makes a moral statement that one is indifferent concerning sex between two people and seeks only the pleasure, not to experience the meaning.

The Liberals here and the Liberal Media, see, "Trojan Wars", for some vague moral agenda wish to demean and lower the value of a sexual relationship; I wonder why?

Amicus

No one agrees with your point of view, because a, this is a site where people write about sex precisely as a social and emotional experience, rather than a strictly animal form of reproductive activity, and current science suggest, actually more than suggests that recreational sex is really good for you and abstinence isn't - nature has no use for benchwarmers, adn all you abstainers are going to end up infertile.

Finally, speaking of current science, your entire post is essentially a repeat of a Nineteenth century argument advanced by the Reverend ***** Beecher, who personally bred at least Two women to death (***** is a dirty word?). He's your spiritual forefather, and all that crap about how birth control will turn women into prostitutes is bullshit, and has not not happened in spite of widespread availability of birth control.

Rather, women traditionally had turned to prostitution after they had been seduced and abandoned, and left with fatherless children they had to support - in fact the opposition to birth control is just one more way of controlling women, offering them the option of domestic servitude or prostitution. The reason the conservative social order is opposed to birth control is because they can't stand anything they can't control, and they only "threat" here is to your own conceit.

Empirically, it can be demonstrated endlessly that conservative superstitions cause more real damage to human health and the gene pool than any amount of recreational sex, and it must cause you much chagrin to know that while children are great, they do need to eat, and all things being equal, given the opportunity to use birth control, 99% of couples, including married ones - especially married ones, jump at the chance, no questions asked, considering the alternative is so have sex about once every Two to Three years - at least it would be for me; apparently, women get pregnant if I breathe on them.

And, virtually none of them become prostitutes, and even the abandoned ones have other options that you would deny them in the name of your twisted "morality", society still refuses to collapse, and there is still no particular shortage of fresh human beings coming off the assembly line.

Duh.

In short, you are completely and unmitigatedly full of shit and it does stink.

Welcome to The Twenty First century, don't knock it till you've tried it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The characters in almost all my stories use condoms, for safety and for birth control. They don't use them for oral sex, because that would eliminate the payoff, but they do use them for anal sex. There are a few other stories where they are not necessary, for one reason or another, and I make a point of mentioning that.

I have gotten feedback complaining about condoms in what are intended to be fantasies, and I have gotten feedback praising me for the promotion of safe sex.