big fences around borders

[Trinique_Fire]

i really do agree with this idea of building barriers at the mexi/american border. we have enough problems as a country and as a people without non american's (illegal immigrants) trying to take from us. first on the roster ought to be fixing our country's own fucked up issues before we go trolling into third world countries to show what great sports we can be and how wonderful we are at creating democracies.

just a rant. if you don't like it, don't post.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

i really do agree with this idea of building barriers at the mexi/american border. we have enough problems as a country and as a people without non american's (illegal immigrants) trying to take from us. first on the roster ought to be fixing our country's own fucked up issues before we go trolling into third world countries to show what great sports we can be and how wonderful we are at creating democracies.

just a rant. if you don't like it, don't post.

No, Trinique_Fire, you are quite correct. Congress and a few states went on a rant for a few months about the "undocumented" immigrants. And what happened? Nothing other than the issuance of a multi-million dollar contract for a "fence" whos technology is unproven and possibly unworkable.

In the meantime, we've deposed a stable government in the middle east and started a civil war. And Bush can't understand why nobody loves us anymore.

 

[Oblimo]

Trinique_Fire, I'm sure the shovel manufacturers and mining supply industry lobbiest will back you on this one!

 

[Trinique_Fire]

No, Trinique_Fire, you are quite correct. Congress and a few states went on a rant for a few months about the "undocumented" immigrants. And what happened? Nothing other than the issuance of a multi-million dollar contract for a "fence" whos technology is unproven and possibly unworkable.

In the meantime, we've deposed a stable government in the middle east and started a civil war. And Bush can't understand why nobody loves us anymore.

thanks Jenny...it seems like fewer people actually agree with how we think. speaking of wondering why no one loves america anymore...well, i don't even love this "great" country, and i don't blame other countries one bit for hating us. they're tagging us for the assholes we are, and bush is too stupid to see it.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

thanks Jenny...it seems like fewer people actually agree with how we think. speaking of wondering why no one loves america anymore...well, i don't even love this "great" country, and i don't blame other countries one bit for hating us. they're tagging us for the assholes we are, and bush is too stupid to see it.

It's even worse than that. I really don't think the U.S. has had any real friends in the world since World War I.

During the period of 1912 to 1918 the U.S. became such a powerful manufacturing power in the world, many countries were in awe of us, but not really friends. Since the 1980's, our manufacturing assets have been shipped overseas. What really gets manufactured in this country anymore? Car? Nope, those are made in Canada with components coming from France and Asia. Electronics? Get get serious. Even Intel makes the bulk of their chips in Thailand. The U.S. is no longer that power house of eco-manufacturing strength. So why should anyone be our "friends"?

Under every Presidential administration since Carter, we've insisted on messing in someone elses business. Remember Nicaragua? Remember Granada? Remember Samolia? And now Afganistan and Iraq. Besides we are threatening North Korea and Iran.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I'm of the opposite opinion about Mexico. I think the US should open the border, and the two countries should share taxes on illegal immegrants sending money back to their families.

 

[KinseyClone]

As Jon Stewart so aptly observed, hundreds of Mexican artisans are already at work, crafting Trojan pinatas.

 

[cloudy]

This isn't aimed at you, SIMA, so don't take it personally.

When the hell did this country get so damned elitest/protectionist/paranoid?

Supposedly, this country was FOUNDED on the idea that people that wanted a better life could find it here. What's always made this country unique was it's open arms to those fleeing religious persecution, poverty, wars, etc.

What does it say on the Statue of Liberty? Something like, "give me your tired, your weak..." etc.?

We need to give the damn thing back to France. We don't deserve it. Except for those like me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this country comes from immigrants. Why should YOUR ancestors have had a chance to improve their circumstances, but no one else should?

Deal with it.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I'm of the opposite opinion about Mexico. I think the US should open the border, and the two countries should share taxes on illegal immegrants sending money back to their families.

There was some discussion about allowing a free and open border with Mexico several weeks ago. The idea was the immigrants could come here, work and go home.

The problem is, it would have to be regulated on BOTH sides of the border. The Mexicans won't. This is their way of ridding themselves of their poor and indigent. So a fence is the only thing we can do.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

This isn't aimed at you, SIMA, so don't take it personally.

When the hell did this country get so damned elitest/protectionist/paranoid?

Supposedly, this country was FOUNDED on the idea that people that wanted a better life could find it here. What's always made this country unique was it's open arms to those fleeing religious persecution, poverty, wars, etc.

What does it say on the Statue of Liberty? Something like, "give me your tired, your weak..." etc.?

We need to give the damn thing back to France. We don't deserve it. Except for those like me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this country comes from immigrants. Why should YOUR ancestors have had a chance to improve their circumstances, but no one else should?

Deal with it.

We pratically closed our borders entirely back just before World War 1. We were completely isolationist for a few decades from what I remember of my American History (which isn't all that much, I barely passed those courses ).

 

[S-Des]

This isn't aimed at you, SIMA, so don't take it personally.

When the hell did this country get so damned elitest/protectionist/paranoid?

Supposedly, this country was FOUNDED on the idea that people that wanted a better life could find it here. What's always made this country unique was it's open arms to those fleeing religious persecution, poverty, wars, etc.

What does it say on the Statue of Liberty? Something like, "give me your tired, your weak..." etc.?

We need to give the damn thing back to France. We don't deserve it. Except for those like me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in this country comes from immigrants. Why should YOUR ancestors have had a chance to improve their circumstances, but no one else should?

Deal with it.

Except all the people who are standing in line, obeying our laws, waiting to get into the country get bypassed by people who sneak in. Do the people obeying the law deserve to get shortchanged? Don't they want a better life as well?

An estimated 3000 people have died trying to cross the border in the desert. A fence and other security measures would impact that number.

Drugs and crime come over the boarder along with the tired, sick, and hungry. Should we feel bad for the victims of those crimes? Are we allowed to protect ourselves from criminals who look for more fertile grounds to perpetrate crime?

Sorry Cloudy, just because I like your TV doesn't mean I should be able to kick in your front door and take it.

 

[cloudy]

Except all the people who are standing in line, obeying our laws, waiting to get into the country get bypassed by people who sneak in. Do the people obeying the law deserve to get shortchanged? Don't they want a better life as well?

An estimated 3000 people have died trying to cross the border in the desert. A fence and other security measures would impact that number.

Drugs and crime come over the boarder along with the tired, sick, and hungry. Should we feel bad for the victims of those crimes? Are we allowed to protect ourselves from criminals who look for more fertile grounds to perpetrate crime?

Sorry Cloudy, just because I like your TV doesn't mean I should be able to kick in your front door and take it.

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Okay, sure....

I'm now declaring this country to belong to the people that were ORIGINALLY here.

All the rest of you go home. Illegal immigration, you know.

Believe it or not, what y'all are saying is basically: "I got mine, and if the rest of you didn't get yours, tough shit."

 

[S-Des]

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Okay, sure....

I'm now declaring this country to belong to the people that were ORIGINALLY here.

All the rest of you go home. Illegal immigration, you know.

Believe it or not, what y'all are saying is basically: "I got mine, and if the rest of you didn't get yours, tough shit."

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but what I'm saying is that as many people should come here as is possible. There are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) waiting in line already and every one of them should get the chance to come here. I don't understand why you think that the people who don't care about the law should get preferential treatment over the ones who do.

Forgetting about the crime and victims (or even the people who die trying to get across), everyone (regardless of how liberal they are) has to agree there's a limit on how many people can come here. There are millions (tens of millions or more) in the world who would like the chance at a better life. If they all came here tomorrow, our society would collapse under the strain. If we let 50 million people come here in the next year, would you say people are selfish bastards for not letting the next million come in? There are millions starving in African countries...I'm sure most of them would love the chance at a better life for themselves and their family. So if there's a limit, what is the number? I don't personally know, but I'd like to let the law abiding people who are already waiting be allowed to come in first, then expedite immigration so people can move here or get work visas more quickly.

Personally, I don't appreciate you lumping me in with a group of people, then calling me a bigot because I don't agree with your position. Please remember, there are other immigrant groups who also do the work that "Americans won't do," so when you are championing the stampede across the border, what you're really saying is that you don't care that those people are getting screwed in the process (and that the people who come here to work for low wages, no health care and in unsafe working conditions are getting what they deserve). Sorry if my position is too hateful for you, but I'd rather see us work to better Mexico and other poor country's economies so that people can come here as a choice, not out of desperation (willing to risk their life and break the law in the process).

 

[Trinique_Fire]

the only problem I had with your posts, cloudy, was that i kept confusing you and Des, just by avatars alone.

dammit. *grumble*

 

[S-Des]

the only problem I had with your posts, cloudy, was that i kept confusing you and Des, just by avatars alone.

dammit. *grumble*

Are you saying we all look alike? *grumble*

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Are you saying we all look alike? *grumble*

yeah. all you south park cartoons look alike...

 

[cloudy]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but what I'm saying is that as many people should come here as is possible. There are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) waiting in line already and every one of them should get the chance to come here. I don't understand why you think that the people who don't care about the law should get preferential treatment over the ones who do.

Forgetting about the crime and victims (or even the people who die trying to get across), everyone (regardless of how liberal they are) has to agree there's a limit on how many people can come here. There are millions (tens of millions or more) in the world who would like the chance at a better life. If they all came here tomorrow, our society would collapse under the strain. If we let 50 million people come here in the next year, would you say people are selfish bastards for not letting the next million come in? There are millions starving in African countries...I'm sure most of them would love the chance at a better life for themselves and their family. So if there's a limit, what is the number? I don't personally know, but I'd like to let the law abiding people who are already waiting be allowed to come in first, then expedite immigration so people can move here or get work visas more quickly.

Personally, I don't appreciate you lumping me in with a group of people, then calling me a bigot because I don't agree with your position. Please remember, there are other immigrant groups who also do the work that "Americans won't do," so when you are championing the stampede across the border, what you're really saying is that you don't care that those people are getting screwed in the process (and that the people who come here to work for low wages, no health care and in unsafe working conditions are getting what they deserve). Sorry if my position is too hateful for you, but I'd rather see us work to better Mexico and other poor country's economies so that people can come here as a choice, not out of desperation (willing to risk their life and break the law in the process).

Please show me where, exactly, I called you a bigot.

Something to remember: it's a helluva lot harder to get into this country legally than it was even 10 or 20 years ago. Theoretically, sure....everyone should do it legally. Realistically, it just isn't possible.

Theory and philosophy are great and wonderful until applied to real people in real situations, and then it fucks up royally.