Big brother is alive and well- in Britain!

Cheyenne

Ms. Smarty Pantsless
Joined
Apr 18, 2000
Posts
59,553
I think I'm glad I don't live in Britain. Toll roads in Illinois are bad enough!

Joanna Walters, transport editor
Sunday February 24, 2002
The Observer

All cars will be fitted with a 'big brother' satellite tracking meter to
charge drivers up to 45p a mile for every journey taken under radical plans to slash congestion on British roads.
The scheme, proposed by the Government's independent transport advisers, would see drivers handed monthly bills charging them for every single journey.

In a landmark report to be given to Ministers tomorrow, the Commission for Integrated Transport will recommend using existing Global Positioning System satellites to track vehicles via electronic 'black boxes' fixed to the dashboard of all vehicles.

The information recording the movements of motorists would be beamed back to computers at the various highway authorities or to a private company contracted to the Government - but with strict controls to protect privacy.

Prices would be set and adjusted periodically according to levels of congestion and could range from 45p a mile per car for central London in the rush hour to a penny a mile on rural roads. The average weekday charge would be 3.5p per mile on motorways and 4.3p a mile on other roads, with travel free off-peak and on quiet roads.

Tomorrow the commission will propose universal road pricing and tell Ministers that such a scheme could cut traffic levels by 5 per cent and almost halve congestion within 10 years.

In its report, the commission will warn that even huge improvements to train services and bus routes and massive road-building projects would not be enough to clear Britain's choked roads.

Professor David Begg, the commission chairman, told The Observer: 'We have the worst traffic jams in Europe. Without congestion charging we are not going to solve it - we can never road-build our way out of this or provide enough public transport.'

Begg said that even doubling the capacity of Britain's train, tram and bus network - a near-impossible task - would only absorb five years' worth of traffic growth before the roads became gridlocked again.

The report will recommend scrapping vehicle excise duty - the annual road tax disc - and reducing fuel duty by between 2p and 12p a litre in return for the launch of road pricing. It wants the Government to make motoring taxes fairer by linking them to congestion rather than car ownership or flat-rate fuel duty, which penalises rural motorists.

Drivers and hauliers who insist on commuting or delivering in the rush hour and using motorways at the busiest times would end up paying hundreds of pounds in additional costs, while others would save money.

The Government is also set to launch road-pricing for all lorries driving in Britain within two years. Trucks will be charged on the basis of the distance they travel, weight and emissions, with cleaner-engined vehicles paying less.

A senior source familiar with the proposals said the scheme was a 'Trojan horse' for universal road pricing, and if it proved successful for heavy goods vehicles it could be extended to cars by 2010.

Despite a denial by the Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions, the source said: 'This is being driven by the Treasury, not Transport. Chancellor Gordon Brown can see what congestion is doing to efficiency in commerce and industry and every time he meets business leaders they bang on about it.'

The Government is unlikely to welcome Begg's report at such a sensitive time. Ministers, and Transport Secretary Stephen Byers in particular, are under fire for the collapse of Railtrack and the sell-off of air traffic control, as well as failing to solve the wider transport crisis.

The motoring lobby is likely to accuse the Government of being anti-car if it supports the report.

But Begg has already warned that, without serious moves to persuade motorists to leave their cars at home, the Government will not even achieve its own modest target of reducing national congestion by 6 per cent in 2010.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone is expected to announce this week that he is going ahead with congestion charging for London in 2003 at £5 a day for cars. Vehicles will be tracked via roadside beacons and gantries that display prices - with satellite technology likely to be used at a later date.
 
What the fuck.....

...is this retaliation?

I knew P_p_man went to far!!!!
 
I'd heard about the London centre bit but the sattelite tracking sounds a bit OTT to me.

We have a real problem with congestion. We are trying to find ways of dealing with it. To encourage drivers to take public transport and to raise money to improve our various transport systems, drivers, the cause of the problem, are being targeted. no it is not entirely fair. It will increase theprice of anything transported by road. But something does need to be done.
 
Its for central London only... pay your £5 in advance for each day you'll be driving in central london.... CCTV cameras take shots of your car, read your number plate and check if you've paid for that day... if you have they delete the image and move on.... if not it automatically sends out an £80 fine... bitch!

I heard of an estate agents place that is outside the boundary.... but their car park is inside the boundary... hehehe nice....





Glad i live in the countryside
 
Chey

Don't believe everything you read.

These are proposals from an extreme group and they don't have a cat'schance in hell of becoming law.

Except for the congestion charge in London.:rose:
 
Cheyenne said:
Transport Secretary Stephen Byers in particular, are under fire for the collapse of Railtrack and the sell-off of air traffic control, as well as failing to solve the wider transport crisis.date.

That little bastard is under fire for telling porky pies.... (translation from cockney rhyming slang: "lies").....





Bloody politicians......
ANARCHY BROTHERS! *mwah hahahahahaha*
 
Starblayde said:
Its for central London only...

Read it again. "Prices would be set and adjusted periodically according to levels of congestion and could range from 45p a mile per car for central London in the rush hour to a penny a mile on rural roads." It doesn't sound like just central London is targeted to me.
 
the charge is coming in for next year in central london, basically hyde park through to euston train station i think...

what the damn government wants to do with rural roads i have no idea.

'integrated transport policy' my ass...
 
Cheyenne said:


Read it again. "Prices would be set and adjusted periodically according to levels of congestion and could range from 45p a mile per car for central London in the rush hour to a penny a mile on rural roads." It doesn't sound like just central London is targeted to me.

The proposals for the GPS based charging and Ken Livingston's congestion charfes are two different proposals.

The congestion charge appears to be going agead in a predetermined area of London.

The GPS based idea is pie in the sky and will lose a general election for any party that adopts it.:rose:
 
Cheyenne said:


Read it again. "Prices would be set and adjusted periodically according to levels of congestion and could range from 45p a mile per car for central London in the rush hour to a penny a mile on rural roads." It doesn't sound like just central London is targeted to me.

it isn't...but I think bluespoke is also right they won't get this through becuase of civil liberties

...I mean, those politicians don't want us tracking them when they go off and shag thier mistresses:D
 
Yes but we have only heard about the plans for congestion charges in central London and very small areas of one or two towns. No great big tracking system, no officials checking your milage. Either you are misinformed or we are. I haven't noticed anyone getting any new tracking devices put in their cars so I suggest that this simply isn't true.
 
BlueSpoke , where I live in a major city in South West England , we already have the boards up to monitor the disks for cars , they were put into position last year , so I recon it will be in all major cities in Uk within a few years .....bad news huh !!!......and so easy to instal on the gantrys on the motorways ....agree or disagree .....
 
sarahuk4 said:
BlueSpoke , where I live in a major city in South West England , we already have the boards up to monitor the disks for cars , they were put into position last year , so I recon it will be in all major cities in Uk within a few years .....bad news huh !!!......and so easy to instal on the gantrys on the motorways ....agree or disagree .....

I would guess that it would start small, like central London. But Big Brother getting his foot in your door makes it easy to expand later on. After all, you already have the tracking device in your car by then. Adding more territory would be the easy part once the basic liberty is gone.
 
sarahuk4 said:
BlueSpoke , where I live in a major city in South West England , we already have the boards up to monitor the disks for cars , they were put into position last year , so I recon it will be in all major cities in Uk within a few years .....bad news huh !!!......and so easy to instal on the gantrys on the motorways ....agree or disagree .....

I must admit I didn't know you had them up. Even if you have, the system needs all cars to be fitted with new devices and nobody has mentioned that.

I did, however, hear that Edinburgh and your city were planning congestion charges similar to London. A little different to the major UK wide GPS scheme.
 
Give the government an inch and they'll take a mile.

Or in this case, give them a centimeter and they'll take a kilometer?
 
Ouch. I hate this twisted logic.

People travel, for the most part, because they have to. They go to work, they go to court, they travel and learn, they meet friends/relatives, they see girlfriends/boyfriends, they go to school, they take kids to kids events. This is life.

How many people have you seen driving around central London looking up through their sunroofs at the sky and saying "thank you God, I came here only to drive around aimlessly and add to traffic problems"? If there is someone like that, and you did add a cost of driving downtown, then it probably wouldn't stop them anyway. P. S. Watch out for people with that sort of glazed look on their faces who are talking to themselves.

So, the Government wants to make "life" more difficult so less people are able to live "life" (estimates are it would cut down traffic 5%)? That's the ticket... Government often seems to be in the business of making "life" more difficult.

Government should be in the business of building a framework that allows "life" to be better in the future, not more difficult. It should only do those things that markets and local jurisdictions can't do for themselves (like national highway systems, space shuttles, and common defense).

All they're going to do is make if more difficult for people who are living "on the edge" to enjoy their lives. It will curtail efforts of young entrepreneurs who are scraping at a living and investing heavily in their future. It's just another little barrier to "life". Bummer, I hope none of it goes through.

Hey, I've got to stop this, this post has nothing to do with romance, love or lust. :eek:
 
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Cheyenne said:
Give the government an inch and they'll take a mile.

Or in this case, give them a centimeter and they'll take a kilometer?

You were right first - those damn europeans haven't been able to steal our miles - yet!!
 
Cheyenne said:
Give the government an inch and they'll take a mile.

Or in this case, give them a centimeter and they'll take a kilometer?

a centimetre, and kilometre, in our case....


and yes i'm that pedantic....
 
LovetoGiveRoses said:

All their going to do is make if more difficult for people who are living "on the edge" to enjoy their lives. It will curtail efforts of young entrepreneurs who are scraping at a living and investing heavily in their future. It's just another little barrier to "life". Bummer, I hope none of it goes through.

Quite a good summary of what the Labour party has done since it got into power.
 
MunchinMark said:


Quite a good summary of what the Labour party has done since it got into power.


ahhhhhhh, you mean lie, cheat, steal and generally fuck the place up?
 
Starblayde said:



ahhhhhhh, you mean lie, cheat, steal and generally fuck the place up?

I think i have just seen the tory manifesto........
 
MunchinMark said:
What is the difference?

No really, I'd like to know.

Difference, you want differences?

Labour was not in power for 18 years because they were left of centre - stupidly the Tories moved from the centre ground - to right of centre and labour moved in - The Tories are now in the wilderness praying that labour will royally fuck up!

However, labour have engineered a very strong economy (possibly on the back of the Tories), which means that they can invest in schools and health service (which will make a difference) - and that will keep them in power for quite a while - unless Tony Blair is shagging Teresa May.

The odd bit of sleaze doesn't really bother most people - because we know that all politicians are dirty - so we might as well have the dirty ones we know than the bald headed fuckwit!!!
 
Well something's got to be done,

The traffic congestion in London has gone beyond the pale and our Ken (Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London to the uninitiated) has firmly taken the bull by the horns. It's not going to make him very popular, but he's used to that. Don't forget he was the first London Councillor in the days of the GLC to introduce travel cards on London's public transport and on a wider issue to say that to solve the IRA problem the Government had to talk to them. I remeber the screams of outrage at that one!

He was saying the other evening that if it doesn't work they'll just have to try something else. But he's well aware that much of the traffic travelling through central London will be pushed to areas outside the pay zone. Making them even more congested than at present.

That's why he's saying that the money brought in by all those £5s, and it's a tidy sum, will first go to the purchase and upgrading of new buses and then to vast improvement in the Underground system.

Ken being a local politician, albeit a big local politician has always come up with innovative ideas for London's transport.

Which is more than I can say for John Prescott.

I use London buses a lot and the number of cars with only the driver in them almost brings on a seizure some days! It would take about 80 cars containing one person each to fill just one London bus.

Think how empty our roads would be then...

:)
 
Re: Well something's got to be done,

p_p_man said:
.

I use London buses a lot and the number of cars with only the driver in them almost brings on a seizure some days! It would take about 80 cars containing one person each to fill just one London bus.


...and as soon as all those car users come on to the buses you will be moaning about overcrowding....:D

..and before you mention it again I know that Ken's promising to put the money into buses, but you got a chicken an egg situation here.
 
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