Beta-question

[Svenskaflicka]

Does this link work?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Yes, it does. Scared me, though. My speakers were on too loud...

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It works! Yay!

OK, here's the deal:

The page you see is made by me. The company in question doesn't exist. The whole putting-together-a-website thing is my practical exam assignment, and it must be completed by Sunday, midnight. It's more or less done, but I need Beta-testers.

Does anyone want to help me Beta-test my site? Tell me if you find broken links, missing pics, etc. OK, so the whole thing is in Swedish, but I still think you can get the basic idea.

I would really appreciate this, and give a big virtual hug to anyone who volunteers.

 

[CharleyH]

yes - yes it does - GLOSS - my favorite word . . . but not in that particular context

Edit: whats a beta test? And i have lots of time

 

[Guest]

I'll try it and let you know. Very impressed, Svenskamou. P.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

yes - yes it does - GLOSS - my favorite word . . . but not in that particular context

Edit: whats a beta test? And i have lots of time

A Beta-test is that you check the site for errors. Basically, you surf my site like you would any other site, and you click on each and every link, to see where it leads. If you get as Page Can Not Be Found, you tell me, so I can fix it.

 

[CharleyH]

A Beta-test is that you check the site for errors. Basically, you surf my site like you would any other site, and you click on each and every link, to see where it leads. If you get as Page Can Not Be Found, you tell me, so I can fix it.

Yes - lol was told already that i would be your slave - lol - ok slave before sunday - I do my best in the AM, anything else you want me to comment on - I am a worthy critique'r' of fashion sites

 

[fifty5]

Does this link work?

The link works, but the target doesn't, since it depends on the viewer having installed FLASH...

I haven't (and won't)



f5

 

[Guest]

Everything worked! Sent you a PM. P.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Re: Re: Beta-question

The link works, but the target doesn't, since it depends on the viewer having installed FLASH...

I haven't (and won't)



f5

And I was so proud of that Flash-movie..!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Everything worked! Sent you a PM. P.

Have written down the info in your PM, Perditayamouya. *hugs*
You're the greatest!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Yes - lol was told already that i would be your slave - lol - ok slave before sunday - I do my best in the AM, anything else you want me to comment on - I am a worthy critique'r' of fashion sites

I like having slaves.

Uhm, well, what about the layout? The graphics? The font and the typography? Anything that jumps out of the page and disturbs you? Something that should be added? Or removed?

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: Beta-question

The link works, but the target doesn't, since it depends on the viewer having installed FLASH...

I haven't (and won't)



f5

Sorry, Svenska - that was rude. I've been back again and looked beyond the entry page.

However, my first reaction was genuine. Whenever I find a site that opens up by telling me I don't have flash, I have 2 thoughts.
- The first is "and you can't write HTML".
- The second is "Let me outa here!"

Seriously - I would think about that. I don't know what the terms of your assignment were. For all I know, using Flash is a requirement. But if it isn't, then remember that Flash is a barrier to access. Blind people using text-to-speech on a text-only browser are excluded. (And so are nuts like me.)

More positively, the rest does look good - and doesn't need Flash.

I did find some broken links though: on http://smaug.nti.se/~15319/Sortimentsidor/Smycken4.html
The 3 links at the top left fo this frame ("Gloss - Sortiment - Smycken)" all gave me
"Not Found
The requested URL /Mainframe.html was not found on this server."
"... The requested URL /Sortiment.html was not found on this server."
and
"... The requested URL /Sortimentsidor/Smycken.html was not found on this server."

My guess is that you've got an extra '../' in the links.

I do hope that's more useful.



f5

 

[Svenskaflicka]

That's excellent, fifty, thanks! Fixing little things like this is what could push my grade up from Very Good to Excellent.

Yes, Flash IS a hinder to many people, and should be used carefully. We've been taught to be very strict about what multimedia-thingies to use, and cut out everything that wasn't necessary.
The reason why I chose to create a little Flash-movie all the same, and put it up, was because my assignment was to make a cool shoppingsite, and my instructions was to sacrifice user-friendliness for coolness, though without going over the top.
Also, I wanted to show my teacher that I could do it, since Flash has been part of the course. I know it's not really NECESSARY, but I wanted something to fill out the otherwise empty and boring mainframe.
Question is - is it VERY disturbing, or just a little annoying? Is it within the boundaries of the instructions? Or am I just showing off?
I'll think about this, and talk to my teacher tomorrow.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I fixed a little on it already, but there's one thing that just doesn't want to look good, no matter how I try: Veckans Erbjudande.

Any ideas?

 

[fifty5]

Uhm, well, what about the layout? The graphics? The font and the typography? Anything that jumps out of the page and disturbs you? Something that should be added? Or removed?

I had a quick look at the CSS file. I note that it specifies font families and sizes in pixels.

That's something I try to avoid. The thing is that while I'm far from blind, my eyes aren't what they were (still good enough to pass the wagon driving test medical, but still not what they were).

So I bought a big monitor and set a screen resolution, a type-face and a size that I like. Whence, I also like web authors that leave those settings alone, and don't fuck with my preferences.

To see what I mean, set your screen res to 640x480, then to as high as it will go (ideally 1600x1200 or more). See how different the pages look?

That might sound as if the problem is insuperable, but remember that all viewers have set (or accepted a default) that looks OK to them. As long as your code doesn't fuck them up, they'll be happy.

That's why I stick to a bland CSS file, e.g.
".fntm1 { font-size: smaller }
.fntp1 { font-size: larger }

.fnt1 { font-size: xx-small }
.fnt2 { font-size: x-small }
.fnt3 { font-size: small }
.fnt4 { font-size: medium }
.fnt5 { font-size: large }
.fnt6 { font-size: x-large }
.fnt7 { font-size: xx-large }

.just { text-align: justify }"

Those allow me to set relative text sizes, but all based on the preferences set by the reader - and in whatever type-face they like best.

Another tip is to view your pages at less than full screen - it won't take you long to find a size where some of the top-frame control buttons are entirely off-screen - and there's no horizontal scroll-bar to indicate that... Resetting frame scroll settings to "YES" is one answer.

The bottom line is that you'll never know what most viewers will see (different browsers, operating systems, but most of all, screen resolutions and window sizes). The fewer things you specify in your code, the more will default to settings that the viewer has chosen for her/him self.

HTH - even if it's an old man's rant.



f5

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I made the thing for 800x600, since that is the most common screen resolution. I'll take a look at it again tomorrow, in different screen resolutions, and with different browsers.

My mum is so called visually impaired, so she has a special magnifying program installed to her computer, that multiplies text much more than Windows can do, and she said it looked OK with that program, too.

The reason why I tried to use set pixels as much as possible, was to make sure that everything stayed in the same place, instead of floating around on the screen. I'll check your suggestion tomorrow, though, it's an interesting thought.

Right now, I'm too tired to understand what I'm doing, which in the computer world means, I've learned, that you better not get near your work, or you're gonna mess it up.

 

[fifty5]

That's excellent, fifty, thanks! Fixing little things like this is what could push my grade up from Very Good to Excellent.

Go for it!

Yes, Flash IS a hinder to many ...
The reason why I chose to create a little Flash-movie all the same, and put it up, was because my assignment was to make a cool shoppingsite, and my instructions was to sacrifice user-friendliness for coolness, though without going over the top.
Also, I wanted to show my teacher that I could do it, since Flash has been part of the course. I know it's not really NECESSARY, but I wanted something to fill out the otherwise empty and boring mainframe.
Question is - is it VERY disturbing, or just a little annoying? Is it within the boundaries of the instructions? Or am I just showing off?
I'll think about this, and talk to my teacher tomorrow.

It pisses me off completely (so as I said, I piss off instead of staying to read), but maybe more important is the Equal Access legislation that's coming in. Any sales site could (soon) be taken to court if it isn't equally accessible to the deaf and blind as to someone with full sight and hearing. OK, there's the usual "reasonable" clause, but ... My own take on that (not legally based) is that if a site is presenting/selling something that apeals specifically to one sense (e.g. graphic art, or music), then it isn't reasonable to have to provide the full experience to someone without that sense, but even then, there ought to be some explanation - at least words that say what is unavailable.

Thus instead of just

<img src="../Images/Gucci/Liten/Smycken/7.jpg" width="100" height="83" border="0">

use

<img src="../Images/Gucci/Liten/Smycken/7.jpg" alt="A picture of the silver Gucci ring - item 7" gwidth="100" height="83" border="0">

If you wanna be clever, as well as the 'alt-text', put the same text in as 'title-text' as well (title="A picture of the silver Gucci ring - item 7") - then the text will appear in a pop-up box when the mouse is hovered over it in a graphic browser.

Then, in a text-only browser (or a graphic browser with images turned off), even though the picture can't be seen, the alternative text will be.

Unless you've got lots of time though, it might be easier to describe the aim (and illustrate it) than revamp the whole site. (If you are allowed to provide a critique mentioning shortcomings that you recognise.)

Gosh - didn't you press one of my buttons?



f5

PS - Can ********** (or something) determine whether Flash is available - before you activate the Flash code? If so, you can supply the Flash fans with the flash experience - and avoid providing flash-haters like me with the red-rag-for-the-bull?

 

[fifty5]

I made the thing for 800x600, since that is the most common screen resolution. I'll take a look at it again tomorrow, in different screen resolutions, and with different browsers.

True (about 43%) and only a couple of % still use 640x480, but that still means 55% are using higher res - so things may look too small.

My mum is so called visually impaired, so she has a special magnifying program installed to her computer, that multiplies text much more than Windows can do, and she said it looked OK with that program, too.

Yup - she's got her machine set the way she likes it - and has got used to the problems she has to deal with. Precisely because your design is pretty simple (which makes it elegant), she'll have fewer problems with yours that with many others. - At least, that's what I predict. Ask her and tell me if she agrees.

The reason why I tried to use set pixels as much as possible, was to make sure that everything stayed in the same place, instead of floating around on the screen. I'll check your suggestion tomorrow, though, it's an interesting thought.

Try the same thing on these Lit Forum pages. I can reduce the width of my window to about 25% - and while the words move around, they're still just as readable.

If a viewer actually likes a tall, thin window (or is one of those 2% with grotty old screens) why shouldn't the layout rearrange itself to fit? In the extreme, would the rows of images be any less effective if they became a column (at the viewer's instigation - so you can assume that is what the viewer prefers...)?

Right now, I'm too tired to understand what I'm doing, which in the computer world means, I've learned, that you better not get near your work, or you're gonna mess it up.

Yeah - I've gone on too long, and it's bed time.

Sleep well.



f5

 

[fifty5]

PS - Can ********** (or something)

That should read java script, not a row of asterisks, but presumably to avoid triggering JS, the site engine suppressed it.

 

[cloudy]

made the mistake of clicking on the link before reading Lauren's post - scared the piss out me too!

Nice work tho!

 

[Liar]

Hey, svenska.

I don't know what the course your taking is supposed to teach you, if I sould look at the technical production or the design of the site.

But design-wise I think there is room for some improvement. Looking at this, I'd say you ave a good eye for types, styles and colors, but the propositions are sometimes a bit wrong.

I work in web page design. Not for commersial web-shops like this one, but with news and community sites, so the "rules" may be different, but I think there are some general things that you might want to think about.

* The blue field on the left, with the stars. Yes, it's pretty, but what does it do? Maybe I'm conservative, but I sure want something out there. A menu, a shopping basket, haikus, anything. Or just make it smaller, so there is more room for the content in the middle.

* The first page with the flash. I don't mind Flash. But what I do mind is empty pages. And that is what you have after playing that Flash animation; a big empty page that says "Gloss", and that's it. That doesn't make want to buy stuff. Since it's a Flash in a frame, maybe you could redirect it to some other page (Sortiment or Erbjudanden) after it has finished? And while you're at it, a "skip this intro" link would be a good idea.

* Veckans Erbjudande, as you said, is a little bit confusing. It is not obvious which picture/shopping icon/price/info text that goes with which. Try increasing the margins arond each box, should do the trick. I assumed (incorrectly) that you had a table wrapping the whole page, that would had made extra margins easy to add. Adding line separators could work too. See my lame-ass edit attached for an example.

best of luck
#L

 

[Svenskaflicka]

If you wanna be clever, as well as the 'alt-text', put the same text in as 'title-text' as well (title="A picture of the silver Gucci ring - item 7") - then the text will appear in a pop-up box when the mouse is hovered over it in a graphic browser.

Then, in a text-only browser (or a graphic browser with images turned off), even though the picture can't be seen, the alternative text will be.

*SNIP*

PS - Can ********** (or something) determine whether Flash is available - before you activate the Flash code? If so, you can supply the Flash fans with the flash experience - and avoid providing flash-haters like me with the red-rag-for-the-bull?

Excellent points. *makes notes*

I'll se what I can do, I might have to prioritize, since I only have up until Sunday midnight to finish everything. My teacher told me to repair broken links before I did anything "fancy".

 

[Svenskaflicka]

* The blue field on the left, with the stars. Yes, it's pretty, but what does it do? Maybe I'm conservative, but I sure want something out there. A menu, a shopping basket, haikus, anything. Or just make it smaller, so there is more room for the content in the middle.

* The first page with the flash. I don't mind Flash. But what I do mind is empty pages. And that is what you have after playing that Flash animation; a big empty page that says "Gloss", and that's it. That doesn't make want to buy stuff. Since it's a Flash in a frame, maybe you could redirect it to some other page (Sortiment or Erbjudanden) after it has finished? And while you're at it, a "skip this intro" link would be a good idea.

* Veckans Erbjudande, as you said, is a little bit confusing. It is not obvious which picture/shopping icon/price/info text that goes with which. Try increasing the margins arond each box, should do the trick. I assumed (incorrectly) that you had a table wrapping the whole page, that would had made extra margins easy to add. Adding line separators could work too. See my lame-ass edit attached for an example.

best of luck
#L

GREAT exampel, Liar, thank you so much! I'll have to take another look in the manual, though, to figure out how to do the vertical line. I once missed a couple of points on a test because I fialed to get that detail right.

The left field... yeah, it's weird. Originally, I tried to use that for storing links, but it didn't work very well. Then I tried removing it altogether, but that didn't look nice either. I finally settled for keeping it as it is now, and added the stars to make it a little more interesting. Before, it was just a boring solid space. I might rearrange it so that it contains links to othe sites - if I have time.

Having the page changed to Vårt Företag or Sortiment after finishing the Flash-file is a good idea. Where did I put my FLash manual..?

 

[Guest]

Hi Svenska,

I've had a quick look, and on first impressions: I like it.

Looking at it from a purely aesthetic point of view, it's good. Your choice of colours is classy and nothing cried out and smacked me in the face. One of the secrets of good design is having such a good design that nobody really notices it, if you get my meaning. It should suit whatever the site is promoting, and I think yours does.

I haven't looked at it on a very deep level yet, and as you have already received some great advice from both Liar and F5, I won't add much. A couple of minor gripes I do have is with your use of frames - I just don't like them, and the fact that I have to knock off my favourites, to view the whole width of the pages without needing to use the horizontal scroll bar. You should aim to design your pages with this is mind... Most surfers are lazy, and like all of the information in front of them, without having to adjust their browser preferences.

Those are just my initial thoughts. All in all I like it, I really like it. I might add more later, if I get the chance.

Lou