Bernie!

[BoyNextDoor]

What a hoot to call Trump GOP establishment. The GOP Establishment is sick as they can be over the presence of Trump. (They even merged with the president on that issue in the GOP response to the State of the Union address.) I can't see how anyone could miss that Trump isn't GOP establishment.

Not only is Trump GOP establishment, but Trump and Hillary are different sides of the same coin. They are both entrenched, 1%er, Washington, fuck-you-if-you-have-not-got-yours-because-I-got-mine, establishment.

 

[RUlookingup]

Trump has said fuck you to both parties from the beginning. I say fuck you to both parties. He is the bastard son of Ross Perot run amuck. American politicians you deserve the rage of the American people..... media created whores....your just desserts are at hand. The jig is up.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The jig is not remotely up and it never, ever will be. Sorry but this is life barring something much wilder than Trump.

 

[RUlookingup]

Sean Renaud. You and your ilk are in for a rude awakening. Politics by media is over....the jig is up and you will.learn this lesson in 2016.

 

[sr71plt]

Not only is Trump GOP establishment, but Trump and Hillary are different sides of the same coin. They are both entrenched, 1%er, Washington, fuck-you-if-you-have-not-got-yours-because-I-got-mine, establishment.

Well, yes, Hillary is Democratic Party establishment, but be blind against all of the evidence sitting right out there about the divide between Trump and the GOP establishment if you like.

 

[Sean Renaud]

His point appears to be that all rich people are the same. And they are not.

Sean Renaud. You and your ilk are in for a rude awakening. Politics by media is over....the jig is up and you will.learn this lesson in 2016.

Keep telling yourself that. Just curious what is your prediction?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

His point appears to be that all rich people are the same. And they are not.

Very close- give the man a cigar.

My point is that you either support the current way in which all rich people are the same in so far as the way they got rich (which they all are), or you think there is a different way for people to get rich which does not involve exploitation (which there is).

 

[sr71plt]

Yep, that's simplistic thinking. The Roosevelts were filthy rich. It's nice that folks can go through life not thinking very deeply.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Very close- give the man a cigar.

My point is that you either support the current way in which all rich people are the same in so far as the way they got rich (which they all are), or you think there is a different way for people to get rich which does not involve exploitation (which there is).

Not all rich people got there the same way. Gates and Jobs and Wozniak and others saw a need and filled it. Some, like John Kerry and John McCain married wealth. Others, like JFK inherited it. And, there are thousands of professional athletes and entertainers who parlayed an unusual talent into wealth.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Very close- give the man a cigar.

My point is that you either support the current way in which all rich people are the same in so far as the way they got rich (which they all are), or you think there is a different way for people to get rich which does not involve exploitation (which there is).

It depends on how you define explotation but for that to be your goal the difference between Hillary and Trump (at least assuming we judge them on their campaigns) couldn't be more different. You've got one who wants to raise taxes on the richest 1%, increase the minimum wage and pursue other generally democratic goals and one who thinks Americans are paid too much. Hillary seems to be more free trade (judging by her on the campaign) than Trump.

If you think these two people are even particularly similar there is soemthing you need to get checked. If you told me she and Jeb are the same person my argument would be I've seen a photo of them standing side by side. Clearly they are not the same person. IF you told me Romney and Obama were cut from the same womb I'd bring up that story from a few years back showing they are infact related (and closer than you'd think, They are like second or third cousins if I remember.

Not all rich people got there the same way. Gates and Jobs and Wozniak and others saw a need and filled it. Some, like John Kerry and John McCain married wealth. Others, like JFK inherited it. And, there are thousands of professional athletes and entertainers who parlayed an unusual talent into wealth.

I note you're leaving Trump and Bush out for some reason. . .But yes this is essentially correct. I'm not going to defend everything Gates did, the fact that we don't actively pursue anti-monopoly laws isn't his fault though, that's on us.

And how you got there seems to have a profound impact on how you believe the economy should run.

 

[JackLuis]

Another good reason to vote for Bernie!​

Sorry, double post.

 

[JackLuis]

Another good reason to vote for Bernie!​

Bill O’Reilly promises to ‘flee’ to Ireland if Bernie Sanders becomes president

“And you know, look, I’m fleeing,” he warned. “If Bernie Sanders gets elected president, I’m fleeing. I’m going to Ireland. And they already know it.”

O’Reilly added: “I shouldn’t say it publicly because that will get Sanders more votes. But I’m not going to pay 90 percent of my income to that guy. I’m sorry. I’m not doing it.”

Hooray! Elect Bernie and send BillO back to the old sod!

 

[JackLuis]

Bernie Sanders puts boots on the ground in Iowa to do battle with Hillary Clinton

Eight years ago, in shabby temporary offices -, a young upstart from the neighbouring state of Illinois garnered global attention by beating frontrunner Hillary Clinton, who was left in third place on caucus day. For Barack Obama, that was the beginning the long journey that would lead him to become the first black president of the United States.

Though wary of invoking Obama by name, the Sanders activists hoping to defeat an even stronger-looking Clinton in 2016 are proposing something equally shocking: catapulting a self-proclaimed democratic socialist into the White House.

Until recently, the notion that this 74-year-old independent senator from Vermont might take more than a handful of state delegates from the former secretary of state, let alone win the national Democratic primary and one day sit in the Oval Office, was the subject of ridicule among knowing Washington political commentators.

Even Republican voters are seen as potential Bernie converts , not least because many regard Clinton as a more divisive figure.

“Just because I am a Republican doesn’t mean I am dead to him,” says Joshua, who requests details of the Feelthebern.org website beneath a POW “Missing in Action” flag on the next street over. “We just need somebody other than Hillary. So many people are voting for her out of nothing but name recognition.”

State director Becker claims there are many more like Joshua in towns in the traditionally more conservative west of the state, such as Sioux City and Council Bluffs, where Sanders has been drawing big crowds.

Has the "Little Rock Strategy" failed or succeeded n putting a real progressive in the White House?

 

[Ninwalker]

I can't friggin stand Hillary, she comes across as completely devoid of honesty and integrity, saying anything for a coin or advantage. Trump doesn't come across as having particularly much depth to him and comes across as a win-at-all cost kind of guy.

I like Bernie, not his politics, but he seems at least honest and feisty. Love that he is pushing Hillary's buttons. But I'm a self made guy who made a fair amount of money and I just don't see what is right with me working hard and then not being allowed to enjoy the rewards of that hard work. I worked in a place really in my career (in Scandinavia) with 90% upper end tax rate and its sucked that I'm earning twice as much as my admin before tax but slightly less than her after tax. And what happens is that people find ways to skirt the tax code, like the perks of Europe with company cars and free gas, subsidized lunches and dinners, club memberships. It's all messed up.

I'm much more in favor of the current system with the addition that anyone can make a single deductible: eg you choose if you want to deduct the interest on your home, your car or a credit card -your choice. There are way too many loop holes in the current tax code so streamlining it and flattening it while removing the loop holes is key.

And it upsets me that companies essentially doesn't part tax anymore and have pushed more and more of the cost of benefits (like health insurance) the to workers. And at the same time these companies that doesn't pay tax claim that they are judicial persons and can lobby our politicians. Talk about double standard, if you claim your a judicial person then pay taxes just like a physical person is forced to and don't hide the money untaxed overseas.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Big Night For The Bern!

Big debate for the Bern tonight. Two weeks out from Iowa and more or less in a dead heat with Hillary.

So far as I can tell his age and guns are the only things she has to even try and beat him up. Are there other places he is vulnerable to Hillary? Will she go all Socialist on him and risk alienating the 50% self-identified Democratic Socialists in Iowa and the so-called Warren-wing of the Party?

If the Bern can keep moving the conversation to economics, Wall Street, Citizens United, the worthiness of properly implemented social safety net programs and the like - then the Bern Wins not only Iowa, but New Hampshire as well.

 

[JackLuis]

Big debate for the Bern tonight. Two weeks out from Iowa and more or less in a dead heat with Hillary.

So far as I can tell his age and guns are the only things she has to even try and beat him up. Are there other places he is vulnerable to Hillary? Will she go all Socialist on him and risk alienating the 50% self-identified Democratic Socialists in Iowa and the so-called Warren-wing of the Party?

If the Bern can keep moving the conversation to economics, Wall Street, Citizens United, the worthiness of properly implemented social safety net programs and the like - then the Bern Wins not only Iowa, but New Hampshire as well.

I agree, Bernie need to deflect her attacks with reasoned answers, something he is good at. If he mentions Warren and praises her aggressive progressive agenda he may be able to draw in her supporters as part of his base. The Warren wing of the party, IMHO, does not like Hillz coddling of the Wall Street Establishment.

I've noticed whenever anyone challenges Hillary, she laughs and tries to change the subject. If she is pressed again she looses her shit and gets vindictive. Bernie just need to keep her laughing and press her hard on how she is going to become a progressive. If he can make her lose her poise and show her true vindictive competitive side he'll win.
Go Bernie GO!

 

[BotanyBoy]

I agree, Bernie need to deflect her attacks with reasoned answers, something he is good at. If he mentions Warren and praises her aggressive progressive agenda he may be able to draw in her supporters as part of his base. The Warren wing of the party, IMHO, does not like Hillz coddling of the Wall Street Establishment.

I've noticed whenever anyone challenges Hillary, she laughs and tries to change the subject. If she is pressed again she looses her shit and gets vindictive. Bernie just need to keep her laughing and press her hard on how she is going to become a progressive. If he can make her lose her poise and show her true vindictive competitive side he'll win.
Go Bernie GO!

I don't think he should be going after the Warren crowd because he already has them over HRC. The far left and the 'independent' left is already backing Sanders.

It's the moderate democrats he needs to start appealing to.

It's all the "I'm voting HRC because a socialist can't beat trump in the USA" thinkers he's got to pull.

He needs to convince the lemming (D)'s out there...the main base.

In short, he needs HRC to be indicted on Email destroyin' charges, because without taking her out Sandaz just can't beat out Wall St.'s ordained Queen of (D)emocrats.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Exactly. I'm sure X percent of Warren's supporters are with her simply because she's a woman and would support Hillary over Bernie for that but the overwhelming majority of them are already Bernie backers. They are younger and more progressive. Hillary is at best slightly left of center and realistically she's a Democrat simply because she's both a woman and married to a Democrat President.

As Bot points out guys like me are the obstacle (or the rational thinkers take your pick) who would rather go for the win than for the dream. Bernie is hands down the best candidate bar none but I don't even think a Republican candidate not named Trump would even need to show up to the debates. They would make a poster of this:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Signs%20Pics%20and%20Sayings%2021/Bernie%20Money%20Tree.jpg​

Go home and let Bernie bore the audience to death with nuanced economics.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I believe that for the first time Berne is being seen as electable while Hillary is being seen as not the teflon master that Bill was. Those middle of the road Dems and independents are starting to see Hillary as unelectable, because they can't see themselves voting for her. The ticket splitters will stay home instead. She gets indicted by the FBI for that shit with the email and it will be even more so.

While I do see the conventional wisdom in not trying to cater to the Warren Wing because Bern already has them, it can be a really potent debate tactic. So does Hillary call him out for being a Socialist? That is the real question of the debate - IMHO. The tactic for Bern will be putting her in a position to call him out. She does that and she differentiates herself from him, for sure, but she loses a shitload of Progressives in that moment.

Otherwise he just needs to stay true to himself with that and not make it look like he is taking them for granted. He can't let Hillary push him away from them (like she tries to do with the GUNZ).

Where he can score with the middle and even the Reagan Democrats is around Citizens United and socially liberal issues (they do not care what you smoke, with whom you sleep and think taxes on the 1% should justifiably be raised). Also with some good hard shots at Wall street where Hillary is vulnerable he can make solid gains.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I really hope your right and I'm wrong.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Here we go: BIG BANKS!!

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Bernie was awesome. He did not get Hillary to call him a Socialist, but absolutely hung Wall Street around her neck. Now we go into foreign policy.

I hope Bernie read his homework. He needs to find a way to say "America needs to lead from a position of strength."

 

[snugglestruggle]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Signs%20Pics%20and%20Sayings%2021/Bernie%20Money%20Tree.jpg​

I would change "Trees" for "Beans".

Hillary needs to retire and go play grandmother. Anybody but her or Jeb.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

"Inevitable"


Bernie Sanders Is Now the 'Inevitable' Democratic Nominee and Presidential Winner

HuffPo

 

[MarianneRavenwood]

HuffPo or The Onion?