being submissive...

[DistressedDame]

I've heard it said that there are no stupid questions, only stupid people that ask them. I PRAY that I have not fallen under either of these categories as I ask this...

How do you be a *pyt and fight with your *PYT? Is there always discipline after the fight? Are there rules to how to go about this?

No, I'm not wanting to pick a fight necessarily. Truthfully, I have never had a fight in my vanilla relationships. Maybe that's why they don't last...hmmm... well that's not part of this thread.

I just wanted to know if you can share a bit, what the fights are about, and how/IF a pyt can keep from overstepping his/her place?

Also, if this is a REALLY dumb question somehow, if you could point me to some reading to help me understand, so I don't continue to ask them that would be SO great!

I want to learn everything I can about being a pyt, I just don't know where to go exactly, so I'm asking for input from y'all.

Please I would appreciate any help you can give me!

thanking you in advance,

~dd

*PYT/pyt, that is correct usage, isn't it?

 

[CutieMouse]

Very close - PYL/pyl (Pick Your Label/pick your label)

I rarely "fight" in relationships; I do, however, disagree at times. And when I do disagree, I do so in the same manner I try to in all relationships (business, personal, non-D/s, etc) - intelligently and respectfully, but forcefully.I also tend to attract the sorts of men who wouldn't expect anything less. LOL As for punishment... I can't imagine being punished for having an opinion. I can understand there being an issue over disagreeing disrespectfully, but being punished for disagreeing (closest thing I can think of to "fighting") is such a foreign concept to me I can't even imagine it.

 

[DistressedDame]

Ok, so I do have a long ways to go to figure all this stuff out. PYL/pyl... no wonder I couldn't find it on any of the threads. Oh wow, I truly am embarrassed now!!! Thank you cutiemouse for being so kind in explaining that to me.

And what you say makes sense. I agree that I would never just be bratty and fight without reason, but I'm sure there will be a "disagreement" or two that will pop up.

Thanks again for sharing. ~dd

 

[Katiesub]

I try to use all the rules for "discussion" that are out there for marriages, business, etc., but with even an added bit of deference. I still make my opinion known, but with two levels of respect -- the respect for the person as the other side of the discussion, and the respect I owe the Dominant as submissive to Dominant.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure there is a clear cut answer as different people expect different things, just as their relationship dynamics differ. We disagree on some things, and we have had some heated discussions some might call fights, but no punishment because of it. Part of that is because he understands I have opinions and feelings, and sometimes he also finds I have seen or thought of something he didn't, so it helps him too. Sometimes it is he has seen or thought of something I haven't, so it is all good. It also helps us understand and trust each other more.

Like many, I find people who say they never or rarely have disgreements in their relationship either don't care enough to have them, or are painting a picture which does not resemble reality. It is a natural part of any relationship and no matter how much you love someone, you are individuals and so will at times find you are not on the same page...for one to repress what they feel usually ends badly, often with an explosion which often has little to do with the initial issue. If your PYL welcomes it, speak freely, respectfully, and honestly, and most of all, listen when they respond.

Catalina

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Specifically how you behave would likely dependent on your specific relationship dynamics, so I can't really tell you too much there. My relationship is pretty normal outside the bedroom, so we argue like normal people . However, a PYL who outright squashes any attempt you make at having your own opinions, comments you make regarding things in your life that make you uncomfortable or other such topics that fall under important relationship communications strikes me as a problem. You should still be able to argue (or at least discuss) the things that really matter for the welfare of the relationship and those in it.

 

[Lilac_Sky]

This is an intriguing topic and one I have actually been thinking of lately. As others have stated, it depends greatly on the dynamics of your individual relationship. But here are my thoughts from my perspective from my M/s relationship:

* There have been times when I have gotten angry with Mistress. And I have made those feelings known. But I must always be respectful in sharing my feelings and opinions. If I approach Mistress aggressively or disrespectfully, I would fully expect to be reprimanded, or punished. Not for my feelings or my opinions, but for not showing the proper level of respect.

* I really can't imagine "fighting" with Mistress. In my mind, fighting denotes something aggressive where there is a winner and a loser. That is not how I see our relationship (and I hope it is not how she sees our relationship either).

* Mistress loves me for my thoughtfulness and intelligence as a part of who I am. She does not expect me to be a mindless robot. Offering opinions, insights, feelings, views, is a service that I can provide to her. How she responds is up to her.

* This is not to say that we live in a "picture-perfect" relationship where there are never disagreements or differences of opinion. But our relationship is built on Mistress's control. She makes the final decisions for us. If I disagree then I have choices: I can reflect on her decision and understand why she decided as she did, I can share any lingering concerns I may have about the decision that has been made, or I can become resentful and angry and grumpy. Of those choices, the last would lead to unhappiness for both of us. I trust Mistress's judgement, otherwise I would not have submitted to her as fully as I have. I don't expect her to be perfect or infallible, but I do expect her to always make the best "good faith" decision for us.

 

[GrimsPet]

I try to use all the rules for "discussion" that are out there for marriages, business, etc., but with even an added bit of deference. I still make my opinion known, but with two levels of respect -- the respect for the person as the other side of the discussion, and the respect I owe the Dominant as submissive to Dominant.

Ditto on this.
I have had some disagreements with my Master. Some big ones on a story we were trying to write together. Through it all I tried to keep in mind that he is my Master and that such respect should still be shown toward him even in disagreement. Basically I conceded to him to let him write the story and I would edit it and help revise it where necessary since I wanted to keep the peace. He agreed with my choice of letting him take over. The last thing I wanted was for us to be fighting about the rewording of paragraphs in a story! And it was coming pretty darned close to that.

I think the biggest thing is when arguing or even fighting, try to keep a level head and try to discuss things as calmly as possible and keep in mind the respect the Dominant is owed in the relationship. A good Dominant will listen to you, even if he doesn't agree with what you are saying.

In our argument Master listened. He didn't agree with my points, but he listened, and at the end he at least understood my point of view on the story, and why I had been upset.

What also helps is when the disagreement arises, take a step back, walk away for a half hour and think through what you want to say. Sometimes being able to clear your head and think about the words you chose is the difference between a bad fight, and a calm discussion.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You'd probably better tell us what he's saying-- and how you feel about that.

 

[Vixandra]

There is a difference between fighting and having a disagreement with ensuing discussion.

To me, fighting is verbally harsh, angry and often has yelling to accompany it. Loud noises from thrown or slammed objects can come into play. I don't fight, I walk away for a reason. I'll leave the room, the house, hell the city if that's what it takes for me to get the space and time I need to cool down. I grew up with a parent that would take things into fights, even if they were stupid things and I can't stand to be around it. Hell, I'll leave the area if other people are fighting.

Now a disagreement with discussion, those I'm game for. As a Domme, I don't want a submissive partner without an opinion- kind of takes away the point of having a "partner" doesn't it? If I wanted a mindless drone, I'd get a Real Doll. Real people have real opinions and part of the joys of being with someone are the differences between the two (or more) of you. As long as the discussion is held with mutual respect, even if we can't agree at least we both feel that our sides were heard.

I'm pretty sure that makes sense (not having a good morning.)

 

[ecstaticsub]

I never get punished for my opinion, just my actions when they go against his expectations.

It took me a year or so to learn how to disagree respectfully in a way that managed to keep both our tempers in control. I also learned that making my opinion known is not always necessary. Sometimes it is just best to listen and keep my mouth closed. This isn't saying that he does not value my opinion or that he wants a doormat...just that there is a time and place for every discussion. He as the dominant gets to decide when and where.

Like many, I find people who say they never or rarely have disgreements in their relationship either don't care enough to have them, or are painting a picture which does not resemble reality. It is a natural part of any relationship and no matter how much you love someone, you are individuals and so will at times find you are not on the same page...for one to repress what they feel usually ends badly, often with an explosion which often has little to do with the initial issue. If your PYL welcomes it, speak freely, respectfully, and honestly, and most of all, listen when they respond.

Catalina

I disagree. In my vanilla marriage I rarely have disagreements anymore. We love each other very much but are both very easy going. We have both been through enough stressful situations to be able to distinguish between what is worth fighting about and what is not. There are very very few things that we really find worth disagreeing about.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I disagree. In my vanilla marriage Irarely have disagreements anymore. We love each other very much but are both very easy going. We have both been through enough stressful situations to be able to distinguish between what is worth fighting about and what is not. There are very very few things that we really find worth disagreeing about.

The bolded part suggests that once upon a time you did have disagreements, which is what I was saying...it happens. It is not a sign of something wrong with your relationship, moreso a necessary growing process which hopefully brings you to a calmer place. To never ever have a disagreement during a relationship which spans several years is not usually a good sign. For us, I am an easy going person, but I do reach a point where I will stand up for what I believe....he is not so easy going, though he thinks he is.

We are both very passionate, so it means we both have strong opinions and will disagree when we feel it matters. We too have been through a lot of stressful life events together, but that has not made us feel anything less stressful than those moments is not worth disagreeing about...sometimes it is just as important, just in a different way. If anything, those stressful moments we have survived together has made us a stronger unit of which no-one else is a part of, and which is the backdrop of our trust in each other on a daily basis...and still we occasionally disagree about smaller matters. I hate conflict, but have learned it can be productive, not necessarily destructive.

Catalina

 

[switchbitch]

A very thought provoking for thread. Until I met Master and would have agreed with the outlines of disagreement and discussion in many of the posts here. Now however, I cannot conceive of ever wishing to fight with him over anything, even when we are discussing non-personal issues we seem always to agree or if we have different views we are both interested in seeing the others' view.I do know however that if ever there was disagreement I could no more fight about it than fly to the moon using a moth in my butt for wings.and if I did I would expect to be punished harshly justifiably.

 

[DistressedDame]

How interesting, all the different responses being made. I guess there is no set rule book for this anymore than there is for any other relationship. *sigh* From what I gathered though, it sounds like one should only argue justifiably and then remember respect above all else. Thanks to all that have answered so far. I enjoyed reading each post and am learning much from everyone.

Gotta say though, the last comment about no more being able to fight with your Master than fly to the moon using a moth in your butt for wings was the best quote I've heard in days!!! ~dd

 

[bhndblueyes88]

*muse* what if you ate a great deal of moths, so that they gave you gas, and you farted yourself to the moon?

 

[YourCaptor]

fight naked

 

[GrimsPet]

fight naked

Depending on the situation and what was being fought about that could have rather interesting and/or amusing consequences.

 

[switchbitch]

How interesting, all the different responses being made. I guess there is no set rule book for this anymore than there is for any other relationship. *sigh* From what I gathered though, it sounds like one should only argue justifiably and then remember respect above all else. Thanks to all that have answered so far. I enjoyed reading each post and am learning much from everyone.

Gotta say though, the last comment about no more being able to fight with your Master than fly to the moon using a moth in your butt for wings was the best quote I've heard in days!!! ~dd

I am glad you liked it. I do have a penchant for rather bizarre descriptions. Fortunately Master likes my somewhat quirky brain.

 

[bambikiller]

There is no real difference in vinillia relationship than in a BDSM relationship.
It's the same.
Now in a BDSM relationship it's a relationship that you may have rules that you follow and agree to follow.
But let's face it, you're going to play the game or not and if the guys an ass or something comes up then it's the all the same.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There is no real difference in vinillia relationship than in a BDSM relationship.
It's the same.
Now in a BDSM relationship it's a relationship that you may have rules that you follow and agree to follow.
But let's face it, you're going to play the game or not and if the guys an ass or something comes up then it's the all the same.

I know from prior experience that a lot of women are going to be upset at this opinion, but I gotta agree with it.

 

[Kikori]

There is no real difference in vinillia relationship than in a BDSM relationship.
It's the same.

This. A BDSM and a Vanilla relationship is still a relationship between people, human beings. Humans disagree, sometimes fight, and it's up to the individuals if the fight is worked through or a black mark on the relationship. Unless one in the party is a slave in every way, even when (s)he is allowed to speak or what is being said, I highly doubt there's a boundary that's made for a pyl standing up for their personal beliefs. If you have something that needs saying as a person, as you the person not the (pyl), then make it known as such when you say it and let the strength of your relationship as people get proven in the exchange.

About the only time I can imagine BDSM-discipline being used after a fight? Painful make-up sex.

 

[HottieMama]

But let's face it, you're going to play the game or not and if the guys an ass or something comes up then it's the all the same.

This...for me at least. The minute "you" become what I consider a fucking asshole I lose the desire to "play the game" COMPLETELY and I become a complete bitch. This is probably why D/s relationships and I have a love/hate thing going on, and why I am rather disillusioned with the D/s 24/7 dynamic as it is...

 

[Stella_Omega]

This...for me at least. The minute "you" become what I consider a fucking asshole I lose the desire to "play the game" COMPLETELY and I become a complete bitch. This is probably why D/s relationships and I have a love/hate thing going on, and why I am rather disillusioned with the D/s 24/7 dynamic as it is...

You aren't truly Giving Yourself to Your Lordly Dom Master Dude.

To which I say: Not everyone is capable of that, and not everyone finds a partner who can handle that kind of "gift."

 

[HottieMama]

You aren't truly Giving Yourself to Your Lordly Dom Master Dude.

To which I say: Not everyone is capable of that, and not everyone finds a partner who can handle that kind of "gift."

No..you're right I'm not. Probably because in the past when I have done that, bad...as in really bad...shit has happened. So now my "spidey sense" is hyper-aware of all manner of random bullshit. I don't trust people easily. I never have, probably never will. I much prefer to keep a layer of mental/emotional self-protectiveness around me when dealing with others..*****style or not.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Which has got to be an acknowledged thing in BDSM. I get so damn tired of seeing women (especially and of course), being judged by how well they can become Stepford wives, as if that was the only motivation for BDSM.

News to everyone here, I'm sure...