BDSM, obsession and drugs

[Edith_UK]

Can honestly say I have never taken any drug (except prescribed or over the counter pain relief) throughout my life to date, nor do I drink alcohol. Why? Well I have always hated the taste of most alcohol I have tasted, so why bother...and I am just not that into the notion of giving control over to a substance. I also have a low tolerance of people under the influence...has never seemed cool to me and downright pisses me off when people try to convince me and insist I really should join them in a drink or try a particular drug just because they do. I am one of those who believe it is just not worth mixing either with BDSM, and have known PYL's who refuse to play with anyone who has taken something for a headache. As to the idea that 'once an addict, always an addict' is not real, can't say I agree. Not only is addiction something you cannot get over and be free to drink or do drugs safely again, it can be passed on genetically to children.

Why can bondage and drinking/drugs be a dangerous situation to be in? I knew someone who died in a most unpleasant way when the person they put their life in the hands of tied them up, began doing some hot wax play, and in their drunken state set the bed alight. Unfortunately, he was so drunk he was unable to put the fire out and she did not survive. Just one example of why it isn't the smartest thing to do.

Catalina

God I'm sorry to hear about that, proper horrific!

On an unrelated note: No offence to you, but I dont really feel like your in any kind of position to be telling me (or anyone else whose had a problem or addiction to drugs) that it's "something I cannot get over". The majority of people who use, even problematically, do get over it and a lot manage to moderate in the future too. Even if not there drug of choice (I steer clear of gear, me).

But, just going 'it's a disease, it's genetic, abstain and attend fuckin boring meetings in community centres for the rest of your life or you'll DIE mwhaha' is... kinda ignoring the fact that people use for a LOT of reasons, and STOP when reasons change.

That said, NA done a lot for me first off, and I'm grateful. Just not grateful enough to sit through them fuckin boring readings EVER again

 

[Shankara20]

That said, NA done a lot for me first off, and I'm grateful. Just not grateful enough to sit through them fuckin boring readings EVER again

Some people can walk away finished and clean, some need that support the rest of their lives.

As a wise man once said "your mileage may vary".

Congrats on finding the support when it was needed.

 

[Edith_UK]

Some people can walk away finished and clean, some need that support the rest of their lives.

As a wise man once said "your mileage may vary".

Congrats on finding the support when it was needed.

Oh I ain't judging anyone else. Me n a lot of people I know have spent time sober/clean, and one of my best mates chairs the local NA meeting. Like they say, take what you need and leave the rest. What I object to is the AA line that it's abstinence or jails/institutions/death. Cos I think that black n white thinking is destructive to a lot of people (despite helping some iyswim). Anyway, ain't bdsm related really My god imagine abstaining from sex!

 

[Shankara20]

My god imagine abstaining from sex!

OMG!!!! no thank you!!!!

 

[DVS]

Oh I ain't judging anyone else. Me n a lot of people I know have spent time sober/clean, and one of my best mates chairs the local NA meeting. Like they say, take what you need and leave the rest. What I object to is the AA line that it's abstinence or jails/institutions/death. Cos I think that black n white thinking is destructive to a lot of people (despite helping some iyswim). Anyway, ain't bdsm related really My god imagine abstaining from sex!

I agree that it gets frustrating when they say such things, but they say that because all different personalities are affected. They have to communicate to the personality that needs to be told that to survive. That's the weakest common denominator theory. Everything is that way. That's why that wise man (as Shank says) created that phrase, "your mileage may vary" because it will. Everybody is different and some can handle more than others. Some will never be able to stop taking a drug or alcohol, then at some time in the future be able to have just a little without getting addicted all over again. The doctors have to treat everybody the same, for the sake of those who can't control themselves.

 

[catalina_francisco]

God I'm sorry to hear about that, proper horrific!

On an unrelated note: No offence to you, but I dont really feel like your in any kind of position to be telling me (or anyone else whose had a problem or addiction to drugs) that it's "something I cannot get over". The majority of people who use, even problematically, do get over it and a lot manage to moderate in the future too. Even if not there drug of choice (I steer clear of gear, me).

But, just going 'it's a disease, it's genetic, abstain and attend fuckin boring meetings in community centres for the rest of your life or you'll DIE mwhaha' is... kinda ignoring the fact that people use for a LOT of reasons, and STOP when reasons change.

That said, NA done a lot for me first off, and I'm grateful. Just not grateful enough to sit through them fuckin boring readings EVER again

Actually, I am probably in more of a position than some others who have commented because I have lived with more than one person with an addiction, and I have also studied and researched the subject from both a personal, professional and academic standpoint, not just a personal defensive stance. It is an addiction when it becomes something you cannot live with or without, and yes, it can be managed by those interested and commited enough to do the hard work, but it is not cureable as in then you can go out and dabble occasionally in your substance of choice whenever you feel like it . And yes, people far wiser than you or I have proven the genetic links as well as addiction as a real disease through science, once again, not trying to defend something they personally prefer and make excuses and accusations....that is a common sign of severe addiction.

Lastly, no honey, I was not telling you personally anything about your life or how you live it, just answering a thread you started and asked people to respond to ...IOW, I, like others, responded. If you expected a particular response, you should have said that up front, but be warned, when others have done that here they usually either get shot down in flames or ignored. If you didn;t want a response, you probably should just write a blog somewhere, not start threads in BDSM Talk where conversation is the point of the forum. Unfortunately, your response for me shows you have much more serious problem (addiction or just simply something else) thant you seem ready to own or deal with. It is your life though, so carry on, just don't involve others who might prefer not to become part of the chaos and destruction.

Catalina

 

[Licia]

The hubs is mostly Cherokee. Scientists say that Native Americans are predisposed to drink addiction. I speculate as to the reasons why "this group" has earned the doctorate's questionnaire checklist stuff. Much like Irish genetics of times past. Maybe still present?

Repression of that sort will force folks into seeking outlets even if those outlets are detrimental. I wonder if the genetics factor wages into a group's DNA after years of evolution, or if it is passed down and learned through the nuture/culture cycle...

Hubby's sober and active in AA. His experiences there have facilitated personal growth.

I will play while under the influence, but that applies to the hubs. Pain and bondage are activities I save for the sober realm because I do not feel like a sub is able to give full consent under those circumstances. Coercion is what it is, and I like to play rough; therefore, I refuse to be held responsible for "I didn't *really* want this."

...Which is probably why I always harp on dialogue...

...And some folks find dialogue particularly difficult while sober...

...Which is why some of them drink lightly in order to express what goes on inside...

...And is *why* "I didn't really want this" can become a problem for me/us...

 

[Edith_UK]

Hey Catalina, you tell it how you see it. I ain't got a problem with that I just happen to disagree *shrugs* Like a ruck me

Majority (60-80%) people addicted in their teens and 20s are substance free by their 30s. Most people recover, and most do it on their own, or with strategies they find themselves. Recovery rates from 'treatment seeking' populationsare biased (of course!).

It isn't as simple as 'genetics'. It's a complex interaction between genes and environment (like all behaviour). For example, a lot of patients who have had physiological dependence on opiates as part of treatment have no problems reducing off, cos they have nothing invested in still being dependent. Are they 'addicts who can never use again'? Nah course not. Addiction is biological, behavioural AND social.

It's my personal experience that the majority of heavily dependent users use cos they lack other tools for emotional coping. Like I done. But those tools can be learnt, situations change, life moves on.

For you to tell me, no sorry, that's it, in my wisdom your always gonna be broken... that makes me laugh I ain't denying I have issues, fuck me haven't we all. But a pseudo-religious organisation like AA who need to keep up membership (or you) ain't telling me how it's gonna be.

(oh here's a linky from Scientific American, http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-you-cure-yourself-of-addiction
took me a 2 min google even if I don't have you academic credentials )

 

[Edith_UK]

Unfortunately, your response for me shows you have much more serious problem (addiction or just simply something else) thant you seem ready to own or deal with.

Mind you... that's a little below the belt innit. I mean, I'd never presume to know or judge YOU based on a few posts here. I mean, that would be a little arrogant and holier-than-thou wouldn't it? ;

 

[Keroin]

It's a matter of trust, for me. I trust my husband doing anything drunk more than I trust other people sober, lol. (I've seen him drunk about three times in 14 years, BTW).

Were I to engage in BDSM with anyone else, I would insist on all parties being absolutely sober. With L? Meh. We don't do anything that hardcore and he always errs on the side of caution, even under the influence. We both LOVE our adrenalin but neither of us has an addictive personality, so it's all good.

Weed...yes. For sex, it is awesome. And I live in the pot/hippie capital of Canada, where everyone and their dog grows their own, so I never have to worry about a 'bad batch', lol.

Drunk sex? No thanks.

If you're worried about the seductive/addictive qualities of BDSM, Edith, then listen to that voice. Move at the speed of sloths. Question. Take breaks. Evaluate. And consider the 'who' part of the equation, if that makes sense.

I will always feel safe with my kink because I always feel safe with my partner. He has my best interest and well being at his core, always. This -- the 'who' -- is a critical component for me.

I should also mention that I was married to an alcoholic in the past. He's dead now - drunk himself to death. So, I am well versed in the world of the addict.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hey Catalina, you tell it how you see it. I ain't got a problem with that I just happen to disagree *shrugs* Like a ruck me

Everyone is entitled to an opinion...as the saying goes, 'like assholes, everyone has one'. And yes, google can be everyone's friend, though best used with caution as not everything on the internet is based on fact or even remotely trustworthy...but yes, it is quick and easy, though I am not tempted to go and google for this discussion.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I should also mention that I was married to an alcoholic in the past.

Been there, done that too...it was not fun for anyone. Upside is, perhaps it helps appreciate having a much more stable relationship now.

Catalina

 

[Keroin]

Been there, done that too...it was not fun for anyone. Upside is, perhaps it helps appreciate having a much more stable relationship now.

Catalina

Ditto and...without a doubt.

 

[Edith_UK]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion...as the saying goes, 'like assholes, everyone has one'. And yes, google can be everyone's friend, though best used with caution as not everything on the internet is based on fact or even remotely trustworthy...but yes, it is quick and easy, though I am not tempted to go and google for this discussion.

Catalina

Scientific American is, by anyones standard, a pretty reliable source. If you don't wanna back up your own assertions, that's fine. I'll take em as personal opinions

 

[ControlandDom]

Scientific American is, by anyones standard, a pretty reliable source. If you don't wanna back up your own assertions, that's fine. I'll take em as personal opinions

lol

You do realize that article was based on if Charlie Sheen was clean or not and if he did it on his own, right?

That's real scientific there.

 

[DVS]

lol

You do realize that article was based on if Charlie Sheen was clean or not and if he did it on his own, right?

That's real scientific there.

If Charlie is actually clean, that's great. I don't know if he actually had a habit or if he was just enjoying his wealth. That's two different things. I know you can do a lot of cocaine and not become addicted. That's as far as I'll go with that.

If you are just doing it for enjoyment or the party aspect of it, quitting is not difficult. Sure, some are addicted, and that's different. Quitting an addiction is very difficult. But, if Charlie isn't an addictive personality, he could have just decided doing so much was not giving him good press. I know people who just up and quit after doing a lot of drugs. It's not unheard of. The only thing is, people who don't do drugs always assume that someone who does a lot must be addicted. Why else would they be doing so much?

Charlie was and still is quite rich. When you're rich, you tend to do what you want and when you're someone like Charlie, life is fun. I think he finally realized (maybe with the help of his father talking to him) that he wasn't helping his image by what he was doing and decided to stop. It could be as simple as that. Time will tell if he's done what he says. Right now, he seems to be doing fine.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Scientific American is, by anyones standard, a pretty reliable source. If you don't wanna back up your own assertions, that's fine. I'll take em as personal opinions

Not that, just realise you have an agenda and want to prove it is OK and you are OK and and able to cure your addiction and not be an addict anymore. Nothing I or anyone else is going to change that mindset at this point in time and as my energy is never high, I reserve it for things which I feel will be worthwhile on some level, not for proving to you what you can easily research and read yourself, if not reflect on your own situation...that is not my job or responsibility.

Catalina

 

[Edith_UK]

Charlie is blatantly mad as a box of frogs Whether or not he is or ain't 'an addict' is largely irrelevant though. It were a jump off point for an article reporting data about whether the majority of 'problematic' drug users need treatment and abstinence to overcome addiction.

(I am right that Scientific American is a fairly serious pop Sci publication aren't I? Suddenly worried it's actually some rubbish magazine !).

 

[Netzach]

This is why it's good to get more than one opinion when you are seeking advice. I know of one woman who enjoyed lengthy bondage sessions. She died a few hours after a session from a heart attack, caused by an arterial embolism in her leg. It might not be that common, but for people who enjoy long sessions that last hours with tight bondage, it shouldn't be left out.

Some of the reasons for a blood clot in the leg are long-term bed rest or staying in one position for a long time, such as a long plane or car ride. They suggest people move their legs a lot during long flights or car rides. When blood flow is slowed or restricted, clots can form. When they eventually dislodge, they can go to your lungs, heart or brain, and the results are either a pulmonary embolism, heart attack or stroke.

I don't dispute other causes of incorrect bondage, including nerve damage. And nerve damage isn't always permanent. It can seem that way though, because nerves can take 10 or more hears to repair themselves or grow back. To many people, that is almost a lifetime.

I'd call that a problem with long term bondage, and yes, for sure you run into the same problem with confinement to a hospital bed, let alone bondage. I wasn't intending to list all possible complications and ways to die doing bondage, just a few reasons why doing it drunk off one's ass isn't a good plan.

As for tingling I meant more the "omg my wrist is tingling" kind of worries - that's an overstated issue compared to total immobilization like you're talking about or nerve damage. nerve damage isn't a tingle, it's a pain that puts you on your ass in a split second and it's too late then to fix.

Limb death would literally take hours on end or a tie so tight it would be intentional.

Boobs have their own set of risk/reward issues, as do genitals.

 

[Shankara20]

..... as do genitals.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/nbright1969/13.gif



sorry, this is my "bright! shinny!"

 

[Edith_UK]

How the fuck do you lot *learn* this stuff?! Are there classes?! Or is it word of mouth/ good-luck-n-google?

 

[Shankara20]

How the fuck do you lot *learn* this stuff?! Are there classes?! Or is it word of mouth/ good-luck-n-google?

If, by "this stuff" you are asking about BDSM, yes in many larger communities there actually are classes.

but I may have miss-read your question.

 

[DVS]

I'd call that a problem with long term bondage, and yes, for sure you run into the same problem with confinement to a hospital bed, let alone bondage. I wasn't intending to list all possible complications and ways to die doing bondage, just a few reasons why doing it drunk off one's ass isn't a good plan.

As for tingling I meant more the "omg my wrist is tingling" kind of worries - that's an overstated issue compared to total immobilization like you're talking about or nerve damage. nerve damage isn't a tingle, it's a pain that puts you on your ass in a split second and it's too late then to fix.

Limb death would literally take hours on end or a tie so tight it would be intentional.

Boobs have their own set of risk/reward issues, as do genitals.

There's no problem. I just knew of some things that I thought needed to be stressed. I wasn't trying to diminish your points. As for limb death, that was my non-medical term. I don't even play a doctor on TV. But blood clots could form or even fat deposits already within the arteries could dislodge. It doesn't necessarily have to be a blood clot to kill you.

The boob thing has never aroused me at all. I see pictures that make me want to cringe, but I know others see it as quite arousing. As with genitals (you're welcome Shank), I'd guess those minor (only in size, not importance, Shank) appendages have the same issues as the larger ones. I'd like to keep my genitals for as long as possible. They still work just fine at my progressed age, so why not keep them healthy and use them?

As for tingling and nerve damage, I've had my issues with that. I had a nerve cut in two when my wisdom teeth were cut out. I had no feeling in my lower right jaw and teeth for a very long time. Little by little, the feeling came back and while there is still some minor numbness to this day, I can say it's mostly grown back. I had the nerve cut in 1983. I've also had my share of pinched nerves and sciatica. I'm sure it's just because I like rough sex. Fun stuff.

 

[Shankara20]

They still work just fine at my progressed age,

brag
brag
brag









hamumph....

 

[Netzach]

How the fuck do you lot *learn* this stuff?! Are there classes?! Or is it word of mouth/ good-luck-n-google?

In my case classes and community. Large events usually have a ton of classes and workshops. People who have skills are usually more than happy to teach new people who ask questions and are willing to listen. Sometimes you can find free and cheap classes/worskshops during leather pride in larger cities or if there's a sex positive toy store or organization.