BDSM, obsession and drugs

[Edith_UK]

One of the most surprising things about the BDSM-world for me has been this blanket disapproval of drugs (inc alcohol) with anything to do with sex. Now don't get me wrong I can see the rationale about safety, just never expected it to be so straight lol.

Think I'm so surprised cos of the obvious parallels between pain and drugs. The way pain can dissociate you from reality, the way it can alter your physical perception, messin with your body chemistry, how it fucks with your head, giving up control, playing with risk.

Every single one of them things is a big similarity with using drugs. Then add on the obsessive feelings around wanting it (I speak for myself lol), and a niche subculture, and societal disapproval.

Seems to me there are enough similarities to make it surprising that people ain't into both yer.

 

[Netzach]

One of the most surprising things about the BDSM-world for me has been this blanket disapproval of drugs (inc alcohol) with anything to do with sex. Now don't get me wrong I can see the rationale about safety, just never expected it to be so straight lol.

Think I'm so surprised cos of the obvious parallels between pain and drugs. The way pain can dissociate you from reality, the way it can alter your physical perception, messin with your body chemistry, how it fucks with your head, giving up control, playing with risk.

Every single one of them things is a big similarity with using drugs. Then add on the obsessive feelings around wanting it (I speak for myself lol), and a niche subculture, and societal disapproval.

Seems to me there are enough similarities to make it surprising that people ain't into both yer.

Some of the stuff people are into is dangerous. And bondage, which almost everyone is into on some level, it's really the entry level, is much much more dangerous than people realize, because it seems like harmless bedroom whatever. I've yet to hear about a single tail whip actually accidentally killing someone. Bondage is where people die.

The problem with drugs and bondage is that when people do bondage there's usually a plan - you know what you're tying someone to and what with etc. etc.

When it goes wrong is when people deviate from the plan midstream. "Oh it would be really hot if I put tape over her mouth"

People who are having altered-states fun tend to be - very spontaneous, yes? Whatever you're doing has impeccable internal logic, or emotionally you want it to and don't want people to spoil your idea of fun. You're much more prone to these mid-stride decisions.

Also, I've met a lot of people who are doing sobriety after long periods of time using their substances of record within the scene. There are also lots of different subcultures within the subculture.

Props to most of them. Addiction is a beast.

But I've also known some very toxic "dry drunks" who seem to be drawn into the scene precisely because BDSM is a way to replicate their dysfunctions on other people and get their highs and still be able to tell themselves they're not addicts. You're right SM and chemical highs can share a lot of the same properties.

Another thing - lastly - getting together as a sexual minority and having lots of activity that pushes legality or challenges legality is strategically a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE time to get caught possessing anything at all.

When I was pro, I described myself as a girl scout with a whip. I met some girls in NYC who were serious partiers and I always worried about renting the same spaces as them, frankly the possibility of THAT bust is part of why I left that aspect of the business.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I used to play on the bottom with a woman who played drunk-- it was great, and I don't regret it one iota. But she had some hair raising stories to tell about playing drunk, like-- forgetting that her ankles were tied together, taking a step forward and hitting the floor face first.

Myself, I am pretty much a tee-totaller, all my life. Sex and endorphins are my drug of choice, and always have been. But that's just me.
the safety aspect of BDSM is pretty serious stuff.

 

[Edith_UK]

Some of the stuff people are into is dangerous. And bondage, which almost everyone is into on some level, it's really the entry level, is much much more dangerous than people realize, because it seems like harmless bedroom whatever. I've yet to hear about a single tail whip actually accidentally killing someone. Bondage is where people die.

The problem with drugs and bondage is that when people do bondage there's usually a plan - you know what you're tying someone to and what with etc. etc.

When it goes wrong is when people deviate from the plan midstream. "Oh it would be really hot if I put tape over her mouth"

People who are having altered-states fun tend to be - very spontaneous, yes? Whatever you're doing has impeccable internal logic, or emotionally you want it to and don't want people to spoil your idea of fun. You're much more prone to these mid-stride decisions.

Also, I've met a lot of people who are doing sobriety after long periods of time using their substances of record within the scene. There are also lots of different subcultures within the subculture.

Props to most of them. Addiction is a beast.

But I've also known some very toxic "dry drunks" who seem to be drawn into the scene precisely because BDSM is a way to replicate their dysfunctions on other people and get their highs and still be able to tell themselves they're not addicts. You're right SM and chemical highs can share a lot of the same properties.

Another thing - lastly - getting together as a sexual minority and having lots of activity that pushes legality or challenges legality is strategically a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE time to get caught possessing anything at all.

When I was pro, I described myself as a girl scout with a whip. I met some girls in NYC who were serious partiers and I always worried about renting the same spaces as them, frankly the possibility of THAT bust is part of why I left that aspect of the business.

Interesting. Can I ask you some questions?

How and why is bondage so dangerous? Due to cutting off blood supply?

I don't know if I agree that drugs equal spontaneity. Some mean much more (looping, focussed) hesitation. Like weed. Others, like alcohol, yer mean increased risk taking. Yet others mean indifference or dissociation and can't-be-arsed (like gear).

I'm not sure about this "dry drunk" stuff. That's very AA/NA 'disease model' of addiction that don't sit right with me. I don't believe in 'once an addict' mentality, I think it's self perpetuating religious bullshit. Do you?

Lastly, I understand not mixing work (sex work) and drugs. Doubles the risk. Did you used to work then?

(thanks yer, interesting to talk!)

 

[Edith_UK]

I used to play on the bottom with a woman who played drunk-- it was great, and I don't regret it one iota. But she had some hair raising stories to tell about playing drunk, like-- forgetting that her ankles were tied together, taking a step forward and hitting the floor face first.

Myself, I am pretty much a tee-totaller, all my life. Sex and endorphins are my drug of choice, and always have been. But that's just me.
the safety aspect of BDSM is pretty serious stuff.

Why don't you drink?

 

[DVS]

Edith, it's a safety thing. Drugs and alcohol dull the senses. A drunk dom can be inhibited enough that he doesn't know what he's doing. He could strike his sub on a bone or some other place that could physically harm her. He could not notice her distress in some way, maybe she has a cramp in a leg or something and needs to have it untied so it will relax. Maybe he's so involved in his own drunken fun that he forgets to watch for signs of danger with his submissive. Drugs are the same.

A drunk submissive can sometimes take more pain than she would when sober. She might forget to say her safe word when she would if she were sober. She won't like the result the next day, if she's got more damage to her body than she wanted to have. If she's too drunk, a gag can cause problems. She could maybe throw up and choke. If the dom is also drunk, he might not notice, causing more dangers.

I'm sure some people can control themselves while under the influence of some drug or alcohol, but you can't tell some people it's OK to indulge, and some that it's not. You have to make a blanket statement that covers everybody when talking about safety. Otherwise, there will always be some who will indulge, when they really shouldn't.

I know I could indulge when I was taking drugs, and still play just fine. I knew when to stop. But some people just enjoy their drugs and alcohol so much, they think if a little is good, a lot will be great. You just can't think that, when you have someone's safety in your charge.

So, the best way to play safe is to play sober. If you don't, be sure you both understand the added risks you are taking. There's a lot of things in the BDSM world that can be risky. Breath play, knife play, electoplay and fire play are just a few. There are many more. I would sincerely hope that if anybody indulges in these or any other risky BDSM activity would prefer to be sober. It's just the sensible thing to do. Why add more danger where there is already enough to kill someone?

 

[Edith_UK]

Cos having sex when totally sober is just *weird* lol

But yer, I get you. Specially about the vomiting/gagged thing. I guess there is just a harm-reduction line that is common sense.

I wonder if people use pain like a drug. And if they do, if that is to be wary of? Should I be concerned my interest in BDSM borderlines obsession? What're the dangers? Quantify the come down for me lol. Cos this feels like when I first come across drugs...

 

[DVS]

Interesting. Can I ask you some questions?

How and why is bondage so dangerous? Due to cutting off blood supply?

I don't know if I agree that drugs equal spontaneity. Some mean much more (looping, focussed) hesitation. Like weed. Others, like alcohol, yer mean increased risk taking. Yet others mean indifference or dissociation and can't-be-arsed (like gear).

I'm not sure about this "dry drunk" stuff. That's very AA/NA 'disease model' of addiction that don't sit right with me. I don't believe in 'once an addict' mentality, I think it's self perpetuating religious bullshit. Do you?

Lastly, I understand not mixing work (sex work) and drugs. Doubles the risk. Did you used to work then?

(thanks yer, interesting to talk!)

There are several reasons why bondage can be dangerous. The first is if you don't know the dom, he can do anything he wants after you are bound, and you have no say in what happens. Sure, he should respect your limits, but there are those out there who will do as they please, then afterwards apologize all over the place, saying they just got carried away because you were so sexy. Or, they may not apologize at all, but just laugh and say something stupid like, "I know you loved it."

Yes, sometimes you can be tied too tight and circulation will be cut off. It's the job of the dom to first not tie someone too tight, but also check from time to time to make sure the tie didn't slip and get tighter. The sum should also say something, but in some cases, she might not even know, if her arm or leg goes numb. Lost circulation can cause a limb to die, or cause blood clots that can become dislodged and move to the heart or lungs. Either of those would be a quick death.

I've already said most of what I think about drugs and alcohol. But I will say that my sexual thoughts became a lot stronger when I smoked pot. Also, being a musician, my music creation was also much stronger. I know I could smoke just a little pot and not be inhibited enough to cause a problem, but it would enhance the session a lot.

But, now there are too many jobs that test employees randomly for drug abuse and pot stays in the system for nearly a month. I can't risk losing a job, just because I want to get high. I think I might go back to smoking before sex, once I'm retired, but until then, I can't take that risk, just for a quick high.

But, with the right woman, pot isn't needed. I can see if someone doesn't excite me that much, pot would make it easier to preform, but then you could ask the question, "why do I need to be with someone who doesn't excite me?" If it takes drugs or alcohol to get me excited, that's not only cheating me, it's also cheating my submissive.

 

[DVS]

Cos having sex when totally sober is just *weird* lol

But yer, I get you. Specially about the vomiting/gagged thing. I guess there is just a harm-reduction line that is common sense.

I wonder if people use pain like a drug. And if they do, if that is to be wary of? Should I be concerned my interest in BDSM borderlines obsession? What're the dangers? Quantify the come down for me lol. Cos this feels like when I first come across drugs...

I'm glad you understand. It's just common sense. And yes, there is a thing called sub drop that some submissives encounter after a session. I'm not a sub, but I've had submissives experience that after playing with me.

I won't go into what it is, because I think someone who has experienced it should explain it. Not all submissives experience it, but if you do, it can seem frightening, if you're not aware of what it is. That's another thing that the dom should be able to watch for and be able to treat. There's a lot to think about, when you're a dom. That's why it's always best to find one that is really experienced...and not just telling you he is.

 

[His_pet_slut]

I've done my share of drinking to excess. Way to excess for some years. Made some decisions under the influence I will never be able to undo and will always regret. The thing is, I LOVE and ADORE sex, and I don't need alcohol to enjoy it. What happens with the alcohol is, I agree to sex with people I never would sober. I agree to stupid, stupid things...such as getting in a car with other drunk people and heading for a city 6 hours away. Did I mention I didn't know said other drunk people?

Now, I do not identify as an alcoholic because I decided one day I wasn't going to do that any more, and I haven't. I can go out to dinner with a friend and if I choose, have one pre-dinner cocktail or glass of wine and be done with it. I can go 6 months before I decide to have another drink.

These days? I'm rather fond of myself, not in an I think I'm all that and a bag of chips way, but as in I enjoy life and I think I'm in pretty decent shape for 52 years old, and I'd like to keep it that way. Making poor decision on who to have sex with or turning my body over to someone that has drank enough to make horrible judgement calls on what he/she is doing to my body is just not something I care to do.

As for drugs? Don't have much experience there other than smoking weed and my concern there is more in the realm of the random 'oh! you know what would be cool?' notions that could go really wrong and while you were trying to figure out how to fix it, someone could wind up badly hurt.

On a purely practical note, alcohol also has an effect on blood clotting ability and other things that can intensify bruising, etc and potentially cause more lasting damage from some type of impact play.

Like I said in my other post to you on the subject, I guess it all goes to consent. There are reasons a hospital will not allow you to consent to say a surgical procedure after they give you a dose of a pain killer...why would I consider consent for BDSM while under the influence to be valid?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Why don't you drink?

because sex and endorphins are my drug of choice, and always have been.

 

[Netzach]

Interesting. Can I ask you some questions?

How and why is bondage so dangerous? Due to cutting off blood supply?

I don't know if I agree that drugs equal spontaneity. Some mean much more (looping, focussed) hesitation. Like weed. Others, like alcohol, yer mean increased risk taking. Yet others mean indifference or dissociation and can't-be-arsed (like gear).

I'm not sure about this "dry drunk" stuff. That's very AA/NA 'disease model' of addiction that don't sit right with me. I don't believe in 'once an addict' mentality, I think it's self perpetuating religious bullshit. Do you?

Lastly, I understand not mixing work (sex work) and drugs. Doubles the risk. Did you used to work then?

(thanks yer, interesting to talk!)

Bondage can be dangerous for any reason from falls and dislocations to strangulation to nerve damage - cutting of the blood supply is kind of an overstated danger - it's nerve damage which can be irreversible, and nerve damage which requires both participants to know some anatomy, and nerve damage which happens to even expert couples in a matter of seconds. There are certain parts of the body, like the divet between the bicep and tricep - that are vulnerable that a lot of people don't know about - I didn't till I was taught. It takes a lot of care on my part to tie someone when I'm stone cold sober lol!

The AA model is isn't perfect but it does explain some people's behavior very well, it's not bad as a tool to analyze motives and situations, especially as someone growing up with alcoholism and denial as a way of life in the family, I find it helpful in some ways in girding myself with other people's "stuff."

Most of the exposure I had to people playing while whatever is boozed up, or lightly coked, or in one case WAY too coked to be whacking anyone with anything, jeezus. That would be spontaneous and unpredictable, so yeah, it's a bias sample on my part. That would be around me, not anyone I chose to engage with directly - these were larger parties and not super controlled environments. I've played while blitzed, just not with toys and just with lovers, when we know each other's drunk-ness really well.

I worked for a while as a professional domme. Now I do phone sessions/erotic audio/distance stuff. The profit margin is actually better for me.

 

[DVS]

Bondage can be dangerous for any reason from falls and dislocations to strangulation to nerve damage - cutting of the blood supply is kind of an overstated danger - it's nerve damage which can be irreversible, and nerve damage which requires both participants to know some anatomy, and nerve damage which happens to even expert couples in a matter of seconds. There are certain parts of the body, like the divet between the bicep and tricep - that are vulnerable that a lot of people don't know about - I didn't till I was taught. It takes a lot of care on my part to tie someone when I'm stone cold sober lol!

The AA model is isn't perfect but it does explain some people's behavior very well, it's not bad as a tool to analyze motives and situations, especially as someone growing up with alcoholism and denial as a way of life in the family, I find it helpful in some ways in girding myself with other people's "stuff."

Most of the exposure I had to people playing while whatever is boozed up, or lightly coked, or in one case WAY too coked to be whacking anyone with anything, jeezus. That would be spontaneous and unpredictable, so yeah, it's a bias sample on my part. That would be around me, not anyone I chose to engage with directly - these were larger parties and not super controlled environments.

I worked for a while as a professional domme. Now I do phone sessions/erotic audio/distance stuff. The profit margin is actually better for me.

This is why it's good to get more than one opinion when you are seeking advice. I know of one woman who enjoyed lengthy bondage sessions. She died a few hours after a session from a heart attack, caused by an arterial embolism in her leg. It might not be that common, but for people who enjoy long sessions that last hours with tight bondage, it shouldn't be left out.

Some of the reasons for a blood clot in the leg are long-term bed rest or staying in one position for a long time, such as a long plane or car ride. They suggest people move their legs a lot during long flights or car rides. When blood flow is slowed or restricted, clots can form. When they eventually dislodge, they can go to your lungs, heart or brain, and the results are either a pulmonary embolism, heart attack or stroke.

I don't dispute other causes of incorrect bondage, including nerve damage. And nerve damage isn't always permanent. It can seem that way though, because nerves can take 10 or more hears to repair themselves or grow back. To many people, that is almost a lifetime.

 

[His_pet_slut]

This is why it's good to get more than one opinion when you are seeking advice. I know of one woman who enjoyed lengthy bondage sessions. She died a few hours after a session from a heart attack, caused by an arterial embolism in her leg. It might not be that common, but for people who enjoy long sessions that last hours with tight bondage, it shouldn't be left out.

Some of the reasons for a blood clot in the leg are long-term bed rest or staying in one position for a long time, such as a long plane or car ride. They suggest people move their legs a lot during long flights or car rides. When blood flow is slowed or restricted, clots can form. When they eventually dislodge, they can go to your lungs, heart or brain, and the results are either a pulmonary embolism, heart attack or stroke.

I don't dispute other causes of incorrect bondage, including nerve damage. And nerve damage isn't always permanent. It can seem that way though, because nerves can take 10 or more hears to repair themselves or grow back. To many people, that is almost a lifetime.

Another risk factor for blood clots is oral contraceptives. Especially if taken by a woman that smokes, is over 35 or has a history of varicose veins. All of these are things a Dom/me doing bondage better be aware of, especially if doing the prolonged sessions of it, as you say.

 

[BiBunny]

This may not be a very popular thing for me to say, but whatever.

In general, when you're playing pretty deep into this shit--more than just "tie my hands together and spank my ass, Daddy!"--you encounter people who are at least a little bit fucked up, in the mental and/or emotional sense. Not always, mind you, but pretty regularly. I'm not passing judgment. I am one of these people.

But when you get these kinds of people together, especially with the kinds of addictive (yes) things we do sexually, the last damn thing you need is something else to complicate the equation.

And, for my part, people who do drugs or drink to excess just annoy the fuck out of me, so I don't want to play with them, anyway. And I do believe in the eternal addict model, simply because I have seen it play out many times with many different people and many different poisons of choice, both chemical and behavioral. It doesn't apply to everyone who partakes, of course, but there is a heavy genetic/biological component to addiction.

ETA: I am, or was, I guess, a pretty big masochist, and playing drunk took most of the fun out of it. Taking the pain away from someone who wants to feel the damn pain is kind of counterproductive.

 

[Scotsman69]

I enjoy my drink Edith, far too much. I know myself and my drink issues well enough to know that no way can I ever play with a sub with anything more than a couple of units of alcohol in my bloodstream. I did once, a long time ago, and lost it. (Lost control of myself, I mean.) Never to the point that I would ignore a safeword, but enough to frighten me.

So for me as a dom, drink and bdsm don't mix. And I'm old enough that anything more than a couple of units of alcohol impairs my ability to erect and orgasm, so for me drink and sex make poor bedfellows too.

Weed's a different matter. In my experience, weed used judiciously heightens sexual sensation incredibly. I've never used any other drugs, so can't comment on them, but I've used weed from time to time for well over forty years, so I know what I'm doing with it. The big problem with any illegal substance however is that it's not controlled or regulated in any way, so you never know exactly what you're consuming, even if you know and trust your immediate supplier. S/he doesn't know either exactly what's in any batch, unless s/he has sampled it, and has the integrity to warn you if it's anything out of the ordinary.

As you continue with your voyage of sexual and personal discovery, please be aware that if your own judgement is impaired by any mind-altering substance, you'll be less able to judge whether the dom is behaving sensibly too. There are doms who are decent human beings, as I hope I am. But there are also sadists and misogynists who masquerade as doms. Until you know someone well enough to completely trust them, you have to be very careful indeed.

I concur with all those who have posted to say, bdsm and alcohol certainly do not sit well together. Weed judiciously used may enhance it, but only if you and your partner have already sampled the batch in a non-bdsm setting, and so know how it will affect you and him.

 

[Shankara20]

I have a long historical relationship with alcohol, scotch being my drug of choice. I was lucky enough to not have the sort of body makeup that some do that can lead them to develop physical dependency to booze - mine was a psychological dependency. I liked where I went when I drank - A LOT. t became a problem after my first wife dies and I was left to raise 2 teen sons on my own. After a night of drinking it would take me two days before my head would clear enough to be fully present for the kids. I choose to stop the drinking in order to be a dad.

Years later I found how to enter into what some call "non-ordinary states" using processes like breathing, trance dance, edge body play, sensory deprivation bondage, etc. I also did extensive work with psychedelics. I very much love where I go and what I learn about myself in the places all these things deliver.

But I do not mix the psychedelics with any of the other processes. Once I ingest a substance I am committed to that substance to its time line. I can not safe-word out. And I must be with people I trust totally when trippin', for I am often not in a place to judge them - sorta like bottoming in edge play. I simply do not trust myself should I mix pay and trippin'.

And when I am high I do not fully FEEL the BDSM stuff, and I sure as hell do not want to miss out on all the places a good beating can take me.

And I will not Top with any high making substance, I owe my bottom that - I cannot be present fully for them. Nor will I bottom to a high Top - I don't feel safe.

A great conversation, thanks for asking.

 

[kellyz_craic]

I've been dominated while on small amounts of cocaine and it's weird because for me, I get hypersensitive but at the same time my pain threshold goes way up. I haven't safeworded when I should have done because I don't experience pain in the same way. I've only really had rough sex when high, nothing complicated like bondage. It does make men more aggressive and that makes them careless.

I've also played after smoking weed but it really just took all the kink out of us. It was always the kind of lazy, sensual fuck we never usually bothered with.

So on balance I'd rather we were both completely sober, because we both get far more out of the experience. He's also more into being inventive and devious, whereas when drunk or high he's a bit of a caveman. I am much happier when I can fully experience everything and I actually kind of zone out on a little trip sometimes but it's purely from the sensations and emotions.

 

[eastern sun]

I have a history of alcoholism and drug abuse. My involvement in formal BDSM surfaced almost as soon as I got sober 20 years ago. Sometimes I've wondered whether the alcohol and drug use was masking my confusion about my sexuality. Sometimes I've wondered whether BDSM was an alternative form of reaching altered states. It certainly has addictive qualities for me, and I have still not discovered the happy medium between engaged and disengaged when it comes to my sexuality.

 

[njlauren]

There are people who do in effect get addicted to BD/SM play, where it interferes with their normal life and such (the DSM doesn't consider BD/SM to be a mental health problem, unless like any activity it takes over from normal life processing. I have known a number of people in the BD/SM scene who were in recovery from alcohol or drugs, and they said they believed it did help replace what drugs once did for them, for various reasons. In play, for example, the bottom/sub experiences 'endorphin high' , endorphins are a kind of drug, they alter brain chemistry and the like, so it is very similar, and from I recall reading the little bit I ever saw in the scientific literature, dominants/tops experience something similar (maybe they generate dopamine? Not sure).

Speaking only for myself, you can crash as a sub 'coming down' from play, it is kind of like I would guess coming down from a drug high (the descriptions I have heard of crack cocaine and crystal meth seem to match the 'crash' in some senses I experienced). I have seen subs coming out of intense scenes who lose it, are crying, in some ways are irrational, and it is pretty powerful, and there is the concept of 'aftercare' after a scene, that is more then the physical (treating welts, bruises, etc). (This was in response to another poster)

As far as bondage goes, yes it can be dangerous , if in different ways then other forms (things like a heavy whipping with a heavy whip in the wrong places, a heavy flogger on the kidneys, electro play done above the waist the wrong way, all can have serious health complications). Besides cutting off circulation for too long, potential nerve damage, dislocations and the like, blood clots could be a problem, especially for women (when on HRT I was warned specifically about cutting off circulation or staying in the same position for too long, and was warned by my doctor who knew I was into BD/SM play about being careful if I was tied up how tight and how long, especially when I was still building up). If you smoke and take HRT/oral contraceptives there can be a much higher risk of clots and potentially embolisms and the like.

The reason for no drinking or drugs is pretty much the same reason you shouldn't be drinking or doing drugs when doing anything that can be potentially dangerous and require heightened senses. Obviously, if you are talking about light play, like doing a spanking and the like, or nipple clamps, not likely to be any serious danger there or perhaps light restraint. But if you are doing heavier play, it is not smart to be on anything. Dominants/tops need their motor skills to be working right if they are doing potentially dangerous stuff, for example tying the sub off too tight or in a bad position, or if using a heavy whip, flogger or can could cause them to hit too hard or in the wrong place, you get the idea. More importantly, because subs go into sub space in deep play and can get in trouble without safe wording or otherwise letting their dom/me know they are in distress, they need to be able to keenly read body language, read the sub and react fast, something drugs or alcohol gets in the way of. For subs, drugs and alcohol can blank the feeling of pain and let you take far more punishment then you ordinarily would, which could lead to real damage because you wouldn't feel it (want an over the top example? I was on a rescue squad in high school, we had delivered someone to the hospital, and the cops brought in this guy who was high on angel dust. The guy was not a big guy, 5' 6" tall, maybe 150 pounds, but he was a maniac, he was fighting with these big state cops bringing him in for treatment, the guy apparently ripped a piece of rebar out of concrete with his hands....on dust you can do incredibly things, look like the incredible hulk, but the guy had broken and ripped a lot of stuff in doing so). More importantly, if you add going into subspace and booze or drugs, you are going to be in a la la land where serious crap could happen and you would be like no big deal......

My take? If you are into drinking or drugs, have your fun, do the scene stuff, then do that stuff afterwords.....I am not much of drinker, but having a drink of something like brandy after an intense scene (once I had come down) was pretty damn nice, especially if sex followed

 

[Edith_UK]

Omg Shank the thought of tripping while doing a scene just don't even bear thinking about Kelly I think I'm like you with the coke, in that it heightens emotion (and makes me much more likely to take risk, and talk shit but that's by the by lol) but lessens pain perception. It makes me all raaaaah! so I'd be more likely to want it faster, harder, stronger. Probably NOT a good idea.

What BiBunny said, about there being enough variables with peoples fucked upness. Yer, that speaks to me. Cos the interactions gonna be complex enough without introducing further unpredictability. Plus I'm messy at the best of times, so y'know, increasing lability ain't the best idea.

But what Eastern Sun were saying, and I notice you've had a habit before too, that's kinda what I were driving at a bit. Trying out this bdsm stuffs felt a bit like meeting an old friend. And that makes me fucking wary.

The way I felt when I was experiencing pain, the way it focusses me in the moment, on sensation, unable to 'think'... thats not *unlike* smack. I always used to free me into the present, not trapped by the past or shitting myself about the future. Just BEING. There were also elements of euphoria (maybe cos it were my first time, and I'd overcome the fear?). And now, I feel obsessed with it. Want it again. Soon.

I just don't wanna be a twat again and end up chasing some feeling at the expense of sanity and safety y'know. Cos I got that in me, and I gotta keep a beady eye on it!

 

[His_pet_slut]

But what Eastern Sun were saying, and I notice you've had a habit before too, that's kinda what I were driving at a bit. Trying out this bdsm stuffs felt a bit like meeting an old friend. And that makes me fucking wary.

The way I felt when I was experiencing pain, the way it focusses me in the moment, on sensation, unable to 'think'... thats not *unlike* smack. I always used to free me into the present, not trapped by the past or shitting myself about the future. Just BEING. There were also elements of euphoria (maybe cos it were my first time, and I'd overcome the fear?). And now, I feel obsessed with it. Want it again. Soon.

I just don't wanna be a twat again and end up chasing some feeling at the expense of sanity and safety y'know. Cos I got that in me, and I gotta keep a beady eye on it!

It is good to be aware of this side of your nature and there is no doubt in my mind that the endorphin rush/release can certainly be the equivalent of (actually to me, better than) a drug high.

The thing is, there are a lot of things in life that have this potential if one has an addictive personality, so to speak. I have known 'recovering' alcoholics that run on a treadmill for hours at a time, multiple times a day. Sexual addiction with or without BDSM, internet chat room addictions, weight lifting and other forms of exercise or working out. You get the picture.

I think the major thing is being aware you have that in you and then you can make more of an effort to keep a balance in things.

 

[Edith_UK]

It is good to be aware of this side of your nature and there is no doubt in my mind that the endorphin rush/release can certainly be the equivalent of (actually to me, better than) a drug high.

The thing is, there are a lot of things in life that have this potential if one has an addictive personality, so to speak. I have known 'recovering' alcoholics that run on a treadmill for hours at a time, multiple times a day. Sexual addiction with or without BDSM, internet chat room addictions, weight lifting and other forms of exercise or working out. You get the picture.

I think the major thing is being aware you have that in you and then you can make more of an effort to keep a balance in things.

Very true darlin x

 

[catalina_francisco]

Can honestly say I have never taken any drug (except prescribed or over the counter pain relief) throughout my life to date, nor do I drink alcohol. Why? Well I have always hated the taste of most alcohol I have tasted, so why bother...and I am just not that into the notion of giving control over to a substance. I also have a low tolerance of people under the influence...has never seemed cool to me and downright pisses me off when people try to convince me and insist I really should join them in a drink or try a particular drug just because they do. I am one of those who believe it is just not worth mixing either with BDSM, and have known PYL's who refuse to play with anyone who has taken something for a headache. As to the idea that 'once an addict, always an addict' is not real, can't say I agree. Not only is addiction something you cannot get over and be free to drink or do drugs safely again, it can be passed on genetically to children.

Why can bondage and drinking/drugs be a dangerous situation to be in? I knew someone who died in a most unpleasant way when the person they put their life in the hands of tied them up, began doing some hot wax play, and in their drunken state set the bed alight. Unfortunately, he was so drunk he was unable to put the fire out and she did not survive. Just one example of why it isn't the smartest thing to do.

Catalina

 

[His_pet_slut]

Oh Catalina, what a horrifying thing to have happen. How tragic. One life lost and I would imagine another inexorably altered due to intoxication, as well as the loss for all of her family and friends.

The stories I am hearing just reinforce my belief on the matter. I have only let a very few Doms restrain me. They all had one trait in common. No alcohol while playing and they took the time to get to know me in a variety of settings and how I reacted to them before restraint with anything other than their hands, body or words was attempted. They also queried me on medical problems and if I took any medications.

I just don't think I could let someone I had not established that level of rapport with tie me up. I'm not looking down on those that do play parties and such, just saying I have my doubts I could ever do it.