BDSM, divorce, and dating

[BeachGurl2]

I'm curious as to how others have dealt with this issue. I'm divorced and have one daughter who is in college and no longer lives at home, but one who still is at home and will be for several more years. Although I try to keep things normal, there is drama where my ex is concerned because he does what he can to exhibit control where he can - namely, using my daughter and visitation to wreak havoc with my schedule. We have a set time to exchange my daughter every other weekend, but he never sticks to the schedule, either needing me to meet him earlier, or waiting until the last minute to let me know that he will be running late. So every other Sunday, I'm stuck waiting for the phone to ring to know what time to head out and meet him. If he could control child support, he would also control when and how much I received, but luckily, Arizona is ahead of the game there and has a law that makes child support automatically garnished from wages. My ex and I don't speak unless absolutely necessary, and even then I keep it via email rather than on the phone or in person, quite frankly because he's just mean and spiteful, so the only drama that occurs is strictly over those visitation weekends. However, I do have behavioral issues with my daughter because of these visits. It's something I deal with on a day-to-day basis, retraining her. Long story short, no matter how much I would love to have my ex out of our lives, that won't happen until my youngest turns 18, in another 6 years.

That said, how do you balance that when you meet men who don't have children or ex-wives? Who haven't had to deal with anything like that, so they totally don't understand? They offer suggestions to fix it - like fighting for sole custody - when they have no clue what that entails. Or if they do have ex-wives and children, their situation is amicable, so they still have no clue.

There are many aspects of parenthood they just don't get, such as things like sleepovers and weeknight dating. My daughter isn't old enough to leave alone in the evening, so if I do have a weeknight date, I want it to be an early evening. On the weekends she is with me, I don't want to spend the entire weekend away from her because there's very little fun time to be had during the week with her. On the weekends she's away at her dad's, I'm more than ready to get out and do stuff. But for the single man with no responsibilities, it's sometimes hard to get them to understand the responsibilities and constraints of having a child at home. And every other weekend just isn't enough for most relationships.

And then again, maybe it's not them at all. Maybe it's the fact that I'm just too much of a mom, focusing on my child more than my own personal relationships. Maybe in their minds, I shouldn't be so focused on my child just because it's a weeknight or my weekend with her.

However, until a relationship is in full swing, I don't want her meeting every guy I date, either. Not that there are that many. In fact, I've only dated 3 guys for any length of time since my divorce 3 years ago. I've had plenty of first or second dates, but I'm not talking about the ones you see only once or twice before you know it's not going anywhere. I'm talking about when you meet someone, you seem to mesh, share a few emails, maybe move to IM and then talk on the phone, then you're finally going to meet for coffee or a drink to see if you click. And they want you to be able to meet them NOW, not later in the week or over the weekend. And they get frustrated because you just can't meet them today. I mean, the conversations up to this point have been really good, really promising, but now I'm seeing red flags all over the place. Frustrating doesn't begin to cover it.

I'm the sort of person who stands my ground where my hard lines are concerned - not talking limits here - and my kids are very hard lines with me. So does that make me undateable? (I know that's not a word, I just invented it.) And if not, how do I begin to balance the two? Any advice or experiences are welcomed. And I'd love to hear from the other side as well. Doms, how have you handled subs in my situation? Do the limits required by a sub with kids at home and an asshole ex make you run in the opposite direction? And would you expect her to allow you to sleep over with her kids in the house? Especially early in the relationship? Enquiring minds need to know.

 

[caela]

You have a tough situation to deal with. I can't say I totally understand because I'm not a divorced mom however I have seen your situation first hand by being the daughter of a divorced mom and getting to see how she tried to handle dating and a less than amicable ex-husband.

From what you've said I have to say I think you're handling things the best that you can. I would have loved it if my mother had tried to protect me from all her boyfriends they way you do your daughter but it seemed like there was a new guy around every few months. I finally just started ignoring all of them because just as I was starting to like a guy they'd break up. I was only about 14 or so and even though I know now that it was just her dating it made a pretty big impact and the impression it gave me was simply that "men leave". It actually makes it hard for me to trust guys even now, I keep expecting them to leave.

I want to give you a lot of credit for watching out for your daughter like you are...not a lot of parents bother to anymore. x 12 for a good mom.

 

[TommysB]

BeachGurl2

Kids are tough
My wife and I just had twins


you sound like A great Mom, good for you !!!!

if the guys cant deal with it now do you think he's gonna be able to deal with the real hardships of parenting later when the relationship is further along

single guys are selfish especially the younger ones

it sounds unfair but its a fact of life

 

[littlegirlslut]

Well I can't say - my parent's divorced after 25 years last December (finalized on the 24th!). Merry Christmas.

Anywho - my mother has been horrible at dealing with it and I'm out of the house. Basically she's dating someone and I'm out of the picture completely because she doesn't have to deal with me anymore.

I can't give you any answers but it sounds like you have the needs of your children first (which to an extent that's great) - remember you do have to be happy too!

I wish you the best of luck!

 

[vanelane]

A good mom is part of who you are. It sucks that being a good mom who happens to be divorced means that parenting takes priority over your personal life but it's true. Kudos to you for not bringing home every guy you have coffee with. I may be out of line here, but it sounds like you could be using match.com or something similar? One way to weed out the single, clueless guys is to only date men who have kids of their own. Even if their divorce is more amicable or whatever, if they're good parents they'll understand where you're coming from.

 

[incubus'_sub]

OK, I've been both, a divorced parent trying to date & long before that a 14yo whose father started dating (my mum died though).

Your 12 yo, whilst still a child, will soon be finding her own life & friends much more interesting than spending time with you. It used to infuriate me when he tried to impose "family" time on us because he thought he should. My 12yo sister & I breathed a sigh of great relief when he started dating. He was much happier, we had time again for our own interests, lives & friends & when he did have someone staying over we really didn't care, it kept him from smothering us.

You need to sit down with your daughter & have a good talk with her about what she prefers. At 12 she may still be a child at heart, or she may be a mini teenager, we don't know. You also need to explain to her that her father is trying to control by being irresponsible about his access. It is not because he doesn't want to see her, it's all about mucking you about. Explain to her what you have to do.

Then you have to tell him it stops now. He either picks her up on time or she doesn't go. End of story. No excuses, no last minute phone calls. He's an adult who can & should be where he's supposed to be & of course he's doing it only to annoy you. Make sure you put this in writing, email & letter, so there's no misunderstanding. DO NOT allow yourself to be blamed by your daughter, or by him, when he tries it on, which he will. If he's not there on time, take your daughter & go to a movie or something, with your phone off. He'll get the message. It won't harm your daughter to learn that her mother means what she says either.

Nor will it harm your daughter to see you as a single woman, it's been 3 years. You sound way too responsible to fill your house with different men every 2nd night, so just play it by ear. Don't turn down men you like because their schedule doesn't quite match yours. Girls of 12 have friends they can stay with on short notice usually, so go for it. It's not fair to inflict your mothering instinct on new men, who then may decide that you don't have enough room in your life for a relationship. Being flexible & balancing out your own needs & responsibilities to fit everything into your life.

Good luck & try to have some fun.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Wow, some really great responses here.

caela

I, too, had a single mom for awhile when I was younger, and she always brought home the new guys. They'd hang around for a couple months, in and out, then about the time I'd get comfortable with them, a new one would come along. I don't want that for her. My last relationship was a fairly involved one, and luckily, we've remained friends. My daughter did get close to him and because we've been able to remain friends, she's able to also have an ongoing friendship with him. But I don't expect other relationships to end up that way. So I'd prefer just to keep her separate from them, at least until they've developed into something that would warrant her getting to know them. Thanks for reminding me that it's a good thing to keep it that way.

TommysB

Wow, I'm impressed to be your first post. Congrats on your twins. You're in store for some fun! And lost sleep! I appreciate your words. Strangely enough, I'm dealing with men over 40, for the most part. So age isn't really a factor as much as just having no real concept of the responsibilities. I needed the reminder that if they can't deal now, later won't get much better. Thanks for that.

littlegirlslut

That balance so that I can be happy too is the issue for me. My kids do come first, but unless I am also happy, I won't be teaching them any valuable lessons for life. Big struggle, that. Thank you for responding.

vanelane

Actually, I'm using bondage.com and alt.com right now. One relationship, which ended very badly, was with someone who had never had kids of his own. He had no clue, tried telling me what I needed to do where they were concerned, and it just didn't work - plus he was just a jackass in general. My last relationship was with someone who has 2 daughters between my daughters' ages, and he completely understood, and in fact, encouraged anything positive to do with my girls. This new person I'm talking to is trying to be understanding, and we'll see how it goes. We've agreed to try to meet later in the week, when I have some notice so can make arrangements for her. It's just very frustrating to think that I may need to focus my dating to guys with kids only. That sounds so funny, doesn't it?

incubus'_sub

My 12yo has actually always been a bit of a mama's girl. And it took her awhile to even be okay with me dating. At first, her response was that I was a mom so I wasn't allowed to date. Had to laugh at that, and of course, promptly dropped her off at the sitters and went out anyway. Now she's okay with me dating, but struggles with sharing me with others. She does have lots of friends, but prefers that they do things at our house rather than the friends' houses. Unfortunately, the only friends she will sleep over with live in our old town. So I don't really expect a big change there until she settles in a bit more in our new town.

She is aware of the issues regarding her dad - we're battling in court right now over visitation and money. And she knows the score, there. In fact, she told me tonight on the way home that she had to laugh at something her dad said to her about a Toby Keith song - I wanna talk about me. He said it reminded him of me. My daughter said she laughed when he said that because it made her think of her dad because he's all about ME, ME, ME! Oh yes, she's got his number, all right. As for the other issue with time and control, that is one of the things we are battling out in court. It's ugly and nasty, but has to be dealt with. Once that is done, I shouldn't have the problems with him that I'm having now. And that will relieve some of the pressure/drama there.

And that balance is the crux of the matter for me. Balance between her needs and my needs. But I think TommysB has a point that I really need to consider. If someone isn't willing to realize that there are issues to parenting that I need to work around - like last minute dates on school nights are tough to deal with - then I should probably think about how he would handle things long term. Will my kids become a source of contention? I'm not looking to let them control things, but looking for middle ground. The guy I've been talking to is interested enough in meeting me that we talked about it and he realizes that a last minute invitation on a school night is tough. So he's making consessions. That's a positive step, as I see it.


Thanks everyone who commented thus far. You guys have all offered really great advice. I would like to hear from the male viewpoint though. Maybe even someone who doesn't have kids. What is it that is too much, as far as you're concerned, when trying to date a woman with kids? Especially when you are both looking for a D/s relationship?

 

[kristyna]

I am a divorced mom with 2 daughters and have gone thru very similar experiences.

I'm curious as to how others have dealt with this issue. I'm divorced and have one daughter who is in college and no longer lives at home, but one who still is at home and will be for several more years. Although I try to keep things normal, there is drama where my ex is concerned because he does what he can to exhibit control where he can - namely, using my daughter and visitation to wreak havoc with my schedule. We have a set time to exchange my daughter every other weekend, but he never sticks to the schedule, either needing me to meet him earlier, or waiting until the last minute to let me know that he will be running late. So every other Sunday, I'm stuck waiting for the phone to ring to know what time to head out and meet him. If he could control child support, he would also control when and how much I received, but luckily, Arizona is ahead of the game there and has a law that makes child support automatically garnished from wages. My ex and I don't speak unless absolutely necessary, and even then I keep it via email rather than on the phone or in person, quite frankly because he's just mean and spiteful, so the only drama that occurs is strictly over those visitation weekends. However, I do have behavioral issues with my daughter because of these visits. It's something I deal with on a day-to-day basis, retraining her. Long story short, no matter how much I would love to have my ex out of our lives, that won't happen until my youngest turns 18, in another 6 years.

I highlighted a section in this text for a reason. You have to realize that he is no longer in control of you. He cannot control what you do unless you let him. This took me forever to figure out and words cannot describe how scared I was of him. One day when he called saying he needed to meet earlier, I told him no, that I had plans. Now granted I really didn't have plans but he didn't need to know that. He tried bullying me but I held my ground. After that first time, it became easier to say no. Learning that he did not control me, that there was nothing to be afraid of has made a complete difference in my life.

I also had some behaviour problems with my youngest child, but I set ground rules and she soon learned that no matter how she acted at her dad's she could not act like that here. I also figured out that she and I had to communicate more effectively. A lot of her acting out was a result of something done or said while with her dad. Really being able to talk to her about what is going on has made a huge difference in how she acts when she gets home.

And then again, maybe it's not them at all. Maybe it's the fact that I'm just too much of a mom, focusing on my child more than my own personal relationships. Maybe in their minds, I shouldn't be so focused on my child just because it's a weeknight or my weekend with her.

However, until a relationship is in full swing, I don't want her meeting every guy I date, either. Not that there are that many. In fact, I've only dated 3 guys for any length of time since my divorce 3 years ago. I've had plenty of first or second dates, but I'm not talking about the ones you see only once or twice before you know it's not going anywhere. I'm talking about when you meet someone, you seem to mesh, share a few emails, maybe move to IM and then talk on the phone, then you're finally going to meet for coffee or a drink to see if you click. And they want you to be able to meet them NOW, not later in the week or over the weekend. And they get frustrated because you just can't meet them today. I mean, the conversations up to this point have been really good, really promising, but now I'm seeing red flags all over the place. Frustrating doesn't begin to cover it.

I'm the sort of person who stands my ground where my hard lines are concerned - not talking limits here - and my kids are very hard lines with me. So does that make me undateable? (I know that's not a word, I just invented it.) And if not, how do I begin to balance the two? Any advice or experiences are welcomed. And I'd love to hear from the other side as well. Doms, how have you handled subs in my situation? Do the limits required by a sub with kids at home and an asshole ex make you run in the opposite direction? And would you expect her to allow you to sleep over with her kids in the house? Especially early in the relationship? Enquiring minds need to know.

Good for you for standing your ground where your children are concerned. My children are just that MINE, when I was dating (before C) that was one of the things discussed way up front. Some men did not understand and some chose not to deal with it, but in no way did that make it my fault.

My kids have only met one man that I've dated and that is my current relationship. My parents divorced when I was a child and my mother brought home new men every night or so it seemed. That is a horrible thing for a young child to have to deal with.

I know that dating or trying to date is very very frustrating. Sometimes I would wonder why even bother, they all end up the same anyways.

My best advice to you is two fold ...
First, just reiterating what I said at the beginning of this long ass post, realize that your ex does not control you or what you do. If you do not jump up to meet him at 1 instead of 6, what is he going to do?

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with having your child stay with a friend or with grandparents if you want to go on a date. I'm not saying to just dump her out and go crazy every night, but there is nothing wrong with you having a life either. There is a happy balance and only you will know what feels right for you.

 

[kristyna]

Oops, the question had already been asked.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I am a divorced mom with 2 daughters and have gone thru very similar experiences.

I highlighted a section in this text for a reason. You have to realize that he is no longer in control of you. He cannot control what you do unless you let him. This took me forever to figure out and words cannot describe how scared I was of him. One day when he called saying he needed to meet earlier, I told him no, that I had plans. Now granted I really didn't have plans but he didn't need to know that. He tried bullying me but I held my ground. After that first time, it became easier to say no. Learning that he did not control me, that there was nothing to be afraid of has made a complete difference in my life.

Oh, believe me. I completely understand where you're coming from and how hard it was to learn to set those ground rules. I, too, spent some time afraid of him and what he would do. And I also spent a lot of time researching abuse, which was a huge help to me in dealing with it all. Like you, whenever he's called to return her early, I've refused, saying I had something else to do whether I did or not. It's the late returns that are a problem because I can't force him to leave by a certain time. We meet halfway between our towns, which is about 45 minutes drive for each of us. When we are in court again next month, one of the things I've asked the judge for is to make him understand that he is required to be there at the time we set. Until the judge tells him that, he will continue to try to use that for control. It's his last thing he can use, and once the judge sets it in court, I'll be able to use the court to enforce it.

I also had some behaviour problems with my youngest child, but I set ground rules and she soon learned that no matter how she acted at her dad's she could not act like that here. I also figured out that she and I had to communicate more effectively. A lot of her acting out was a result of something done or said while with her dad. Really being able to talk to her about what is going on has made a huge difference in how she acts when she gets home.

That is exactly the situation I'm dealing with. Retraining her has been a huge issue that still continues. It's difficult because she's been taught that she isn't required to treat me respectfully. But she's learning. Her behavior has gotten better over time, and will continue to do so. Especially since she and I are communicating a lot more fully now. Before I was afraid to talk to her too much about her dad's behavior because she was so fiercly loyal to him, but in the last year she's grown to see his behavior more honestly and sees him for what he is. And she's realizing that she has more control over things and will begin to exert more of that control, I think, based on some of the things we've talked about lately.

Good for you for standing your ground where your children are concerned. My children are just that MINE, when I was dating (before C) that was one of the things discussed way up front. Some men did not understand and some chose not to deal with it, but in no way did that make it my fault.

My kids have only met one man that I've dated and that is my current relationship. My parents divorced when I was a child and my mother brought home new men every night or so it seemed. That is a horrible thing for a young child to have to deal with.

I know that dating or trying to date is very very frustrating. Sometimes I would wonder why even bother, they all end up the same anyways.

My best advice to you is two fold ...
First, just reiterating what I said at the beginning of this long ass post, realize that your ex does not control you or what you do. If you do not jump up to meet him at 1 instead of 6, what is he going to do?

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with having your child stay with a friend or with grandparents if you want to go on a date. I'm not saying to just dump her out and go crazy every night, but there is nothing wrong with you having a life either. There is a happy balance and only you will know what feels right for you.

Up until the last several months, she hasn't reacted positively to my dating at all, so we are making progress. She's fine with staying at a friend's house. In fact, she often stays with my ex-bf, even riding the bus to his house after school everyday so that she doesn't have to come home alone for that last hour or so before I get there. [He and I have discovered that we make great friends but not a great relationship.] And after talking about it tonight, she admits she's just fine if I want to go out on weeknights. Which was another huge step for her. I have hesitated to go out on weeknights because of her feelings about the whole dating thing, so I'm glad to see that she's finally accepting things in a more mature way. Makes the balance a bit easier to handle.

Thanks for the great advice. Nice to hear from others who have been there and done it successfully.

 

[Snoozebutton2]

Well I'll be your single guy guinea pig. As in my late thirties the women I date are generally my age or older. And yes have dated divorced women with kids. I have a strong sense of family. I as a rule never stay overnight as don't want to be "uncle" so and so as the clique goes. I do try and spend time with as a group but not one to force myself into a situation. Used to joke to my ex girlfriend it's my job to help gang up on you lol. You sound like a truly amazing woman and see nothing at all unusual in your choices. Love and acceptace is only acheived with a lot of love , time and understanding. So if not a fit for you and the children wasn't meant to be and right man will come later.

 

[kristyna]

I know interupt this post for the following highjack ........

Happy Birthday Snooze.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Before I was afraid to talk to her too much about her dad's behavior because she was so fiercly loyal to him, but in the last year she's grown to see his behavior more honestly and sees him for what he is. And she's realizing that she has more control over things and will begin to exert more of that control, I think, based on some of the things we've talked about lately.

I found this to be true with my oldest daughter also.

As a side note: A 25 year veteran of the police department who dealt with a lot of child related crimes and such told me early on to start keeping a journal of everything my ex did as related to me and my children. That if there was a set arrangement, such as meeting at McD's in BFE to exchange kids (exchanging kids doesn't that sound awful) to do exactly as the court had ordered. If the ex did not show up at the set time to log it in my journal. This became a very effective tool in my custody case.

 

[Snoozebutton2]

I know interupt this post for the following highjack ........

Happy Birthday Snooze.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming

Thank you.

 

[chris9]

If I got you right, your daughter is at her dad's house every other weekend, right? That means even if you have already made plans for the next weekend with your daughter, and are unable to leave on short notice on weeknights, it's still not an incredibly long time to plan a date for the weekend your daughter is at her dad's.
I'm not a guy, and not single, but I'd think that anybody who makes trouble for others, doesn't do the responsible thing, is not a person I'd like to have as a partner, much less a submissive.
As long as your daughter can't/won't/shouldn't stay at home alone, you have to make plans for her to go someplace else. Of course it's possible to arrange something for that night, or the next, if it's really necessary (like an emergency). But if it's regular dating where it's really not incredibly important if it happens a few days earlier or later, I think it's only fair to give both your daughter and the friend and their parents a longer notice of those plans.