BDSM and Therapy?

[Jay Davis]

I'm new here, and not really part of the community (yet?), but I've got something on my mind that I'd really like to get some input/reaction/fellowship on.

By way of background, I'm a 40-year-old straight male submissive. I've been single since my divorce from an ill-condsidered early-20s marriage over 15 years ago. I've dated along the way, and had a few MTRs (medium-term relationships--things in the 3-6 month range), but never really, really clicked with any woman met through vanilla society well enough to make anything last longer. During a period running from, say 6 years ago to 2 years ago, I gradually discovered and accepted my own submissive sexuality, and ultimately found myself in another MTR, this time with a "real" Domme who was quite active and experienced in the local BDSM community. For a handful of reasons, this relationship didn't work out--we can go into that later if anyone things it's important--and I wound up a little stunned about BDSM and its role in my life. I've spent the last 18 months essentially solo, devoting myself to turning around a business that was languishing.

About 6 months ago, I began to see a psychotherapist, originally to help me deal with my depression and unhappiness stemming from my business's impending failure. My therapist has been tremendously helpful in giving me the confidence to do what needed to be done--to end the business that was making me miserable BEFORE it also made me bankrupt. I'm returning to school now, to pursue certification and a career as a teacher (which is why I'm posting under a nom de plume, and why you won't see any face pictures of me anyplace accessable to the casually-browsing public). I am happier and more optimistic about my life than I have been in years, and feel like I have a professional future again.

In the course of dealing with this depression, we talked alot about my relationship with my parents, both as a couple and as individuals. Turns out, it's possible to be pretty deeply screwed up by good people who are operating with the best of intentions--again, I'll go into that if anyone thinks it's relevant, but it's not really why I'm posting.

My therapist and I have also brushed past the topic of relationships and romance. I've mentioned my sexuality, but we haven't gone into it in any depth yet. We're now on a 5-week summer break, and will pick up sessions again after Labor Day. When we do, I know that the main focus of our work is going to be on relationships and sexuality. My sense is that my therapist--a woman named Patricia, but whom I call Pat--is generally sympathic toward the wide array of human sexualities, so I'm not particularly fearful of being judged, or of her attempting to "cure" my submissiveness. In fact, I don't WANT her to do that--it's who I am, and what I am, and what I need is for her to help me find ways to reconcile my sexuality and the rest of my life, so that they aren't undermining one another.

The point is, I am sure I am about to enter a pretty detailed and psychologically intimate discussion of my sexuality and submissiveness in a context in which there is no quid pro quo. I've talked frankly and personally about Dominance and submission with other BDSM people, but never with anyone outside the community and lifestyle. I'm curious to hear what anyone thinks about or has experienced with regards to therapy in which their BDSM lifestyle and/or sexuality was discussed.

 

[snowy ciara]

Nice to meet you Jay, and welcome to the forums..

I'm sort of lucky, I guess, because my therapist is a kinkster. I sort of planned it that way, since I flat out refused to see one who wasn't. He is however, on the opposite side of the spectrum than you and I are. He does seem to have a good handle on the sub side of things. His suggestion to you would be to take this break to do a little research on your own and pull together a list of resources on kink for her. You're not looking for one handed reading material; you're looking for some general information, just in case she asks for it. After I'd been seeing him for a while, he had me go through my library of kink and find a non-fiction and non-erotic resource that comes closest to where I feel I am submissively and give him the title. (I actually came up with one he hadn't read yet.) That gave him a bit more personal insight to where I was coming from.

In general, when it came to discussing sensitive stuff not really related to my sexuality, I found it helpful to practice what I needed to say, and to try to think of the questions I thought he'd ask about the topic. Then I found myself trying to answer those questions, which clarified my thinking.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Netzach]

I hate to burts your bubble, but in my experience...well what you said about your parents applies to the therapy community.

I did family-of-origin and cognitive therapy with a great therapist. She breezed through my bisexuality issues just beautifully. She was very openminded and prided herself on being that way. Then I told her about my SM fantasies and my impasse with my then-partner created by my SM desires. (I'm a top)

"I think you're obviously very angry" she said.

I stopped going to her then. If that's all she could come up with, and if I'd done enough work to get past the major depression I was in, I decided there was no point in digging through my sexuality with someone who had no clue and wanted to learn no clue.

That's my experience, yours may be better, and you won't know unless you try. Remember, you hired her, not the other way around.

 

[Jay Davis]

Netzach--you're not bursting my bubble. She's been helpful to me so far, and my expectation is that she will continue to be so. I suppose I should go on to say that this therapist is practicing in Manhattan, and most of her clients are downtown artsy/creative types, many of whom happen to be gay and lesbian. I've noticed a handful of books on her shelves by folks like Camille Paglia. I know that's it's not a lead-pipe, 100% cinch that she's kink-friendly, but my sense is that she'll be sympathetic. And of course, if she's not, I'll either find someone else, or take care of myself for a while.

Many (most?) of my close circle of friends are gay or lesbian. Although I'm not out as a submissive among them, I'm generally considered an empathetic confidante, and I've had many long conversations directly or tangentally dealing with their experiences in recognizing, accepting, embracing, and declaring their sexuality. As a submissive, I can very much relate to their experiences regarding the closet, as it were. As a result, I've come to the belief that very little of our sexuality is a free choice--whether it's nature or nurture, it's set in childhood, and no amount of therapy as an adult is going to "cure" us. All we can hope for--indeed, all we need--are the tools and skills to allow us to function and care for ourselves in the context of our sexuality.

And that's really what I'm looking for Pat (my therapist) to help me with--to learn to make better choices of relationships and within relationships, taking my sexuality into account. I sincerely believe at this point that my submissive nature was key to the failure of my marriage in my 20s--though neither of us knew the first thing about D/s, I can see plainly now that we were two submissives, locked in a doomed relationship in which NOTHING ever got done, because each of us were really submissive in nature. In fact, I can look back over all my relationships and sort them into the ones that failed because we were both bottoms, and the ones that failed because I was attracted to demanding, difficult, and ultimately not-very-nice women who unwittingly pushed my submissive buttons without caring or even knowing about being compassionate, caring, respectful dominant partners. "Bitch" and "Domme" are NOT synonyms, it turns out!

Anyway, I guess what's going on here is that I'm nervous about my first real coming out. I'm pretty sure my therapist is going to be supportive and sympathetic, but I'm apprehensive nonetheless. As I said, I've spoken extensively about these things both online and face to face, with many different people, but they were all people I met through BDSM, so I knew going in that they were sympathetic. Pat's been very helpful to me, and I want to be able to count on her help in the future, but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, you know?

And Ciara, thanks for your suggestions and support. I'll spend some time over the next few weeks going back through my resource library, and see what's there that seems relevant. (I read non-fiction, non-erotic books on BDSM voraciously during my process of recognizing myself, and I still have most of those books. A few got lent out and never came back, but such is life...) Without taking a formal survey, it seems the most helpful (to me, at least) and supportive mentors I've had in this process have been submissive women, like yourself. I really value your experience and willingness to share and guide, probably more than I can express.

 

[snowy ciara]

And Ciara, thanks for your suggestions and support. I'll spend some time over the next few weeks going back through my resource library, and see what's there that seems relevant. (I read non-fiction, non-erotic books on BDSM voraciously during my process of recognizing myself, and I still have most of those books. A few got lent out and never came back, but such is life...) Without taking a formal survey, it seems the most helpful (to me, at least) and supportive mentors I've had in this process have been submissive women, like yourself. I really value your experience and willingness to share and guide, probably more than I can express.

Thanks Jay. The thing is, reading your posts, you've actually had more bdsm-ey experience than me. I'm always glad to help whenever I can, and offer suggestions but you might want to cultivate friendships with some more experienced peeps, too.

 

[Jay Davis]

I'll cultivate friendships with anyone who seems friendly and honest, regardless of their experience level relative to mine.

With regard to my own experience, I guess you could say I jumped into the deep end a little too soon, got a lungful of water, splashed to the edge of the pool and then sat there for the better part of two years. I like to believe I'm coming back a bit more mature, better informed, and with a better support system this time around.

 

[Carys]

Netzach--you're not bursting my bubble. She's been helpful to me so far, and my expectation is that she will continue to be so. I suppose I should go on to say that this therapist is practicing in Manhattan, and most of her clients are downtown artsy/creative types, many of whom happen to be gay and lesbian. I've noticed a handful of books on her shelves by folks like Camille Paglia. I know that's it's not a lead-pipe, 100% cinch that she's kink-friendly, but my sense is that she'll be sympathetic. And of course, if she's not, I'll either find someone else, or take care of myself for a while.

Many (most?) of my close circle of friends are gay or lesbian. Although I'm not out as a submissive among them, I'm generally considered an empathetic confidante, and I've had many long conversations directly or tangentally dealing with their experiences in recognizing, accepting, embracing, and declaring their sexuality. As a submissive, I can very much relate to their experiences regarding the closet, as it were. As a result, I've come to the belief that very little of our sexuality is a free choice--whether it's nature or nurture, it's set in childhood, and no amount of therapy as an adult is going to "cure" us. All we can hope for--indeed, all we need--are the tools and skills to allow us to function and care for ourselves in the context of our sexuality.

And that's really what I'm looking for Pat (my therapist) to help me with--to learn to make better choices of relationships and within relationships, taking my sexuality into account. I sincerely believe at this point that my submissive nature was key to the failure of my marriage in my 20s--though neither of us knew the first thing about D/s, I can see plainly now that we were two submissives, locked in a doomed relationship in which NOTHING ever got done, because each of us were really submissive in nature. In fact, I can look back over all my relationships and sort them into the ones that failed because we were both bottoms, and the ones that failed because I was attracted to demanding, difficult, and ultimately not-very-nice women who unwittingly pushed my submissive buttons without caring or even knowing about being compassionate, caring, respectful dominant partners. "Bitch" and "Domme" are NOT synonyms, it turns out!

Anyway, I guess what's going on here is that I'm nervous about my first real coming out. I'm pretty sure my therapist is going to be supportive and sympathetic, but I'm apprehensive nonetheless. As I said, I've spoken extensively about these things both online and face to face, with many different people, but they were all people I met through BDSM, so I knew going in that they were sympathetic. Pat's been very helpful to me, and I want to be able to count on her help in the future, but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, you know?

And Ciara, thanks for your suggestions and support. I'll spend some time over the next few weeks going back through my resource library, and see what's there that seems relevant. (I read non-fiction, non-erotic books on BDSM voraciously during my process of recognizing myself, and I still have most of those books. A few got lent out and never came back, but such is life...) Without taking a formal survey, it seems the most helpful (to me, at least) and supportive mentors I've had in this process have been submissive women, like yourself. I really value your experience and willingness to share and guide, probably more than I can express.

I'm not sure I have any advice to offer you, but I thought I'd at least let you know someone else is going through roughly the same thing. I'm at the point in my therapy (My therapist is a man, I'm female) where I'm very comfortable with him, something I've never felt with any of my other past crackpot therapists and psychiatrists, but in our recent sessions I've finally had the courage to admit to some sexual problems, haven't gone in depth yet. I'm worried the disclosing of this information, as much as I need to work on it, and he's said we will go over those issues so I know they're coming up, will make me feel uncomfortable around him, and set me back progress-wise. I still have great difficulty at this point expressing my needs to my husband, who though he's certainly shown he's not purely vanilla, I don't think feels an actual need the way I do entertain these ideas... and if he did, I think he'd be doing it for me, which is the opposite of what I want, I want him to want to do it for him, heh. Anyway, been with hubby nearly 4 years now, and if I'm nervous discussing this for fear of censure with hubby, I'm petrified how it will turn out with the therapist, especially seeing as I have a weakness for older men and don't want to end up thinking of my therapist that way.

Sorry for the rambling, but this seemed as good a way to get my feet wet here as any.

I wish you luck, by the way.

C.