Banned cartoons

[Colleen Thomas]

Recently, while playing with winmx, I came upon some banned cartoons. I don't guess they are officially banned, but they are no longer shown on TV. Some, you can see why, such as Coal black & the sebbend dwrves. Others, you have to wonder, like song of the south.

We have hadmany discussions here, about the appropriateness of bannin certain works and usually we are pretty solidly against cencorship. It seems however, that 90% or better of cases we discuss are attempts by the Right, to censor porn or leftist sentiment. Seeing the word banned next to Daffy and Bugs got me to thinking.

How do you guys feel about the banning of things in the name of political correctness? Is it still cencorship we should be up in arms about, or is it simply ackowledgemnt that some of these cartoons are too stereotypical and were produced in a time when the sentiments expressed are no longer appropriate? (several are war time cartoons that depict the Japane, germans and italians in ways that are at best, degrading and at worst, rank propagandist caricatures)

 

[Guest]

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'm a cartoon fanatic, so I have downloaded a couple of them. I remember them, that is to say, I remember watching them when I was a kid, so their removal is a fairly recent event.

It's a strange issue, because I can see how they would be offensive to people, yet i also wonder at the precedent of not showing them, simply because their content is no longer considered acceptable in the main.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Good morning.

I've come across websites like that.
I think banning stuff now, that was made years ago is sort of useless.
People have seen it, big whoop.
Kids won't 'get it' if there's something said thats off color. (For the most part anyway, and up to a certain age.)

Hell, look at the Disney movies. Almost all of them show characters drinking and/or smoking.
And I think in the movie Shrek.. that King or whatever he is that is so small, has that huge castle.. another of the characters say, "He has a size issue."
(Something to that effect, I haven't seen it in a while, lol.)
Anyhow, we watched it with my 6 year old nephew, and he didn't get it. Actually, remembering back now, I think there were quite a few innapropriate comments in that one, lol.

I'd love to ramble on further, but I've gotta get ready for work, hehe.
Have a great day everyone.

 

[Weird Harold]

I'm a cartoon fanatic, so I have downloaded a couple of them. I remember them, that is to say, I remember watching them when I was a kid, so their removal is a fairly recent event.

It's a strange issue, because I can see how they would be offensive to people, yet i also wonder at the precedent of not showing them, simply because their content is no longer considered acceptable in the main.

The only one of the Cartoons you mention that I remember seeing -- other than as an "exhibit" in a documentary -- is Song of the South, and, as far as I know, it isn't "banned" in any official meaning of the term; it is simply not in circulation as a business choice of Disney. It may have been removed from circulation as a "Politically Correct" reaction to minority special interests but it's a business decision by a private enterprise who owns the copyright and not official censorship.

The Wartime Propaganda and Training cartoons made by Disney, Warner Brothers and others are owned by the government and the government has declined to license them to entertianment outlets. They were made to perform a specific purpose and that purpose no longer exists nor is desireable to perpetuate, so the copyright owner has simply declined permission to exhibit them.

It's popular today to call these "Banned Cartoons" but it's not strictly speaking true -- there is no legal restriction or sanction against exhibiting them, just a choice on the part of the copyright owners to not distribute them. They should more properly be termed "Rare Cartoons."

FWIW, the Cartoon Channel showed most of the Propaganda Cartoons and Many of the WWII Training cartoons a year or so ago in a "ToonHeads" Marathon. "ToonHeads" is a cartoon history and trivia series that is an appropriate venue for resurrecting such rare specialty cartoons.

Resurecting WWII propaganda as "Entertainment" in the name of "Free Speech" -- an "I can do whatever I want and you can't stop me" approach to free speech -- is neither entertaining nor wise. The Propaganda Cartoons were designed and intended to inspire racist hatreds of the "Axis Powers." They are still capable of performing the task they were designed to do, except now the targets aren't enemies but valued Allies -- exhibiting them now is counter-productive. (And pointless as entertainment because most of the propaganda Cartoons are simply not very entertaining.)

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The only one of the Cartoons you mention that I remember seeing -- other than as an "exhibit" in a documentary -- is Song of the South, and, as far as I know, it isn't "banned" in any official meaning of the term; it is simply not in circulation as a business choice of Disney. It may have been removed from circulation as a "Politically Correct" reaction to minority special interests but it's a business decision by a private enterprise who owns the copyright and not official censorship.

The Wartime Propaganda and Training cartoons made by Disney, Warner Brothers and others are owned by the government and the government has declined to license them to entertianment outlets. They were made to perform a specific purpose and that purpose no longer exists nor is desireable to perpetuate, so the copyright owner has simply declined permission to exhibit them.

It's popular today to call these "Banned Cartoons" but it's not strictly speaking true -- there is no legal restriction or sanction against exhibiting them, just a choice on the part of the copyright owners to not distribute them. They should more properly be termed "Rare Cartoons."

FWIW, the Cartoon Channel showed most of the Propaganda Cartoons and Many of the WWII Training cartoons a year or so ago in a "ToonHeads" Marathon. "ToonHeads" is a cartoon history and trivia series that is an appropriate venue for resurrecting such rare specialty cartoons.

Resurecting WWII propaganda as "Entertainment" in the name of "Free Speech" -- an "I can do whatever I want and you can't stop me" approach to free speech -- is neither entertaining nor wise. The Propaganda Cartoons were designed and intended to inspire racist hatreds of the "Axis Powers." They are still capable of performing the task they were designed to do, except now the targets aren't enemies but valued Allies -- exhibiting them now is counter-productive. (And pointless as entertainment because most of the propaganda Cartoons are simply not very entertaining.)

Thanks WH. I didn't think they were banned in any official sense, simply not shown any longer.

I saw Disney's song of the south when I was very young. It may contain material that isn't appropriate any longer. The only part I remember was Uncle Remus singing zippity doo-dah with animated animals around him.

I saw a lot of the WWII cartoons when I was a kid, they were still being shown regualry on Buggs bunny & freinds, as late as the early 80's when I was watching. I haven't actually seen any of the training films. I also noticed some tex avery stuff is on the list,mostly cartoons with his sexy redhead.

 

[Guest]

As the self appointed King of the Anti-Politically Correct (Nuke the unborn baby gay whales.) I have to say that banning anything on the basis of "It 'might' offend someone is just dumb. Song of the South is a good example, it wasn't written to poke fun at the "niggers". It was written that way because that's the way those stories were told. It's the way they talked. But I guess some people would rather sacrifice authenticity for PC righteousness.

Ya know, when it comes right down to it, considering how much I hate politics, the term Politically correct is offensive to me in the extreme. I think that term should be banned. And I hate any one who even uses that term. Let's see how THAT shoe fits.

 

[cloudy]

Thanks WH. I didn't think they were banned in any official sense, simply not shown any longer.

I saw Disney's song of the south when I was very young. It may contain material that isn't appropriate any longer. The only part I remember was Uncle Remus singing zippity doo-dah with animated animals around him.

I saw a lot of the WWII cartoons when I was a kid, they were still being shown regualry on Buggs bunny & freinds, as late as the early 80's when I was watching. I haven't actually seen any of the training films. I also noticed some tex avery stuff is on the list,mostly cartoons with his sexy redhead.

When we were little, we had a huge book called something like "Stories from Uncle Remus," but it was basically the stories from Song of the South.

I think the main reason it's not available anymore, or the cartoon shown, is the "tar baby" part, and b'rer rabbit and b'rer fox. The tar baby, for obvious reason, and the others because they're told in that old patois that's stereotypical of the thinking at the time.

My mother had the hardest time reading that book to us.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

It is a scary notion. How many classic literary works have potentially racially explosive undertones and are still subject to scrutiny? Like it or not, it seems a lot of these things, including these cartoons, have a place in our history and warrant discussion.

"In all my years, I never seen, heard ner smelled an issue so dangerous it couldn't be talked about." ~ Stephen (sp?) Hopkins, delegate of RI.

 

[BigAndTall]

Colly do you mean like how Speedy Gonzolas is not show anymore because it is a sterotype of Mexicans? Tom and Jerry is too violent?

Those are the only two that I have read in the news as no longer played.

I think the cartoon network owns the rights to them and it was a big deal when they agreed not to show them.

(How Tom and Jerry is too violent and south park is not is beyond me)

 

[cloudy]

Colly do you mean like how Speedy Gonzolas is not show anymore because it is a sterotype of Mexicans? Tom and Jerry is too violent?

Those are the only two that I have read in the news as no longer played.

I think the cartoon network owns the rights to them and it was a big deal when they agreed not to show them.

(How Tom and Jerry is too violent and south park is not is beyond me)

They still show Tom and Jerry.

 

[rgraham666]

Very much against banning anything. Kiddie porn for me comes under an abuse heading rather than a sexual or political heading. A rationalisation perhaps but I hate people who abuse children.

I remember an old Popeye cartoon from when I was a kid which was very racist towards Chinese. It never affected my attitudes towards real people as even then I knew it was just a cartoon and had nothing to do with the real world. I wouldn't be able to watch that cartoon now without cringing though.

And many old cartoons are now worse than banned. They've been chopped into fine Belgian lace. Last time I watched one of my favourite Bugs Bunny cartoons on TV, so much had been cut out of it that the plot had been lost. Sheesh.

If you've got kids and they watch these old cartoons, watch with them and be careful to explain that these works were created in a different time and had different, and incorrect perspectives.

But ban, never. I wouldn't even ban Mein Kampf or Das Kapital. Argue against them, yes. Ban, no.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've only been able to download 2 so far, they seem to be very popular. The first is A WWII, with bugs doing Bug's things, but to a very caricatured Japanese soldier rather than Elmer Fudd. The second is the same, except the "bad" guy is an ill disguised Adolph Hitler.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I've only been able to download 2 so far, they seem to be very popular. The first is A WWII, with bugs doing Bug's things, but to a very caricatured Japanese soldier rather than Elmer Fudd. The second is the same, except the "bad" guy is an ill disguised Adolph Hitler.

Where are you getting them from Colly?

 

[Weird Harold]

I saw a lot of the WWII cartoons when I was a kid, they were still being shown regualry on Buggs bunny & freinds, as late as the early 80's when I was watching. I haven't actually seen any of the training films. I also noticed some tex avery stuff is on the list,mostly cartoons with his sexy redhead.

Some of them are still being shown on the Cartoon Channel.

However, the WWI Era Cartoons that were a staple of Bugs Bunny and Friends and other cartoon anthologies were threatrical releases by Warner Brothers, Disney, and/or MGM -- they weren't the Propaganda Cartoons that are so hard to find.

The Animation Houses used Patriotic themes and "Pop Culture" references to rationing and salvage drives in Cartoons they made for "entertainment" but they also made cartoons to government contract that were very explicitly racist and war-mongering. It's those "contract" cartoons that the governement owns and seldom releases for exhibition.

Tex Avery's "Sexy Red" cartoons were't shown much on Saturday Morning TV, but were still very popular in Theaters when I was a child -- although NOT as a part of the Saturday Matinee line-ups. They were, and are, aimed at adult audiences much more directly than Bugs and Friends or Tom & Jerry's slapstick.

There is one area in which cartoons have been "officially" censored -- the bowdlerization of the "violence" in the classic theatrical cartoons for Saturday Morning TV. A lot of the Exploding Cigar/Blackface gags were cut because of the "violence" rather than the racist "blackface" imagery.

"Song of the South" is a movie that NEEDS to be seen, or at least the stories of Uncle Remus need to see wider circulation -- too many people have forgotten the "Please don't throw me in the briarpatch" trick.

 

[Guest]

I've only been able to download 2 so far, they seem to be very popular. The first is A WWII, with bugs doing Bug's things, but to a very caricatured Japanese soldier rather than Elmer Fudd. The second is the same, except the "bad" guy is an ill disguised Adolph Hitler.

Being a HUGE fan of bugs, non politically correct as he he is, I would LOVE to have a copy of those.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Where are you getting them from Colly?

My brother loaded a nifty file shareing program on my machine called winmx. If you don't mind slogging through A porucopia, you can find some neat stuff. Currently I am qued to get a ton of the old foghorn leghorns. I simply loved foghorn, Dog, Egg head & the weasle. Was never a big charlie the chicken hawk fan, but hey, even cartoons can't be perfect

 

[NoJo]

I remember an old Popeye cartoon from when I was a kid which was very racist towards Chinese

Sure it wasn't Japanse? Popeye was big in the US propaganda machine during WWII. They rarerly show those anymore.

I saw The Good Old Naughty Days a while ago. The 1928 cartoon adventures of "Eveready Harton" at the end were at least 40 years ahead of their time. Made Fritz the Cat look even worse than the dire effort it was.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Being a HUGE fan of bugs, non politically correct as he he is, I would LOVE to have a copy of those.

I'll be glad to email em to ya dran, if your inbox can take pretty big files

 

[Guest]

I'll be glad to email em to ya dran, if your inbox can take pretty big files

If you send them to my rogue-cavern.net addy, it's unlimited.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

If you send them to my rogue-cavern.net addy, it's unlimited.

When I feel up to sloggin throughmy back mail, I'll send em

 

[BigAndTall]

They still show Tom and Jerry.

No I meant that is one of them that has been taken off the air.

But Colly is right aboiut the WWII propaganda cartoons that Warner Brothers made to show before feature films. I think in our rush to make no one feel slighted a lot of history is going to be lost in the next 50 years.

 

[Guest]

You're a Peach, Babe.

 

[rgraham666]

Sure it wasn't Japanse? Popeye was big in the US propaganda machine during WWII. They rarerly show those anymore.

Nope. It was Chinese.

I recall, although it's been forty years, the this particular cartoon was made in the late '30's.

I miss the Jeep.

 

[Weird Harold]

Being a HUGE fan of bugs, non politically correct as he he is, I would LOVE to have a copy of those.

I'm not positive, but I think it's either Time-Warner or the Cartoon Channel that sells a DVD collection of all the WWII Government contract propaganda cartoons and Training Cartoons.

At least there used to be one available a couple of years ago -- probably where Colly's WinMX source got them originally.

The Government Copyrights expired in the 90's and they were availble in the public domain for a while before the copyright was renewed, IIRC. In the case of some of the traning cartoons, it was the security classification finally expiring that released them for viewing for the first time in fifity years. "Using the Norden Bombsight" is one that I've seen that isn't likely to win any academy awards for best short comedy, but the fragment I saw in a documentary about wartime cartoons was intersting -- but it was still classified Top Secret for forty-plus years after the Norden Bombsight went obsolete in the 1950's.