Bad for Saddam, Worse for Bush

Jenny_Jackson

Psycho Bitch
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Posts
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Saddam was sentenced to hang. The Shites are parading in the streets of Bagdad. The Sunni's are protesting. Unfortunately, protests in Bagdad soon turn into gun fights between religious factions. This on the eve of the mid term elections. Go ahead, GW, stay the course and watch the civil war.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061105...UXtyFWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-

Shiites praise, Sunnis protest verdict

protest verdict By QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writer
Sun Nov 5, 9:23 AM ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shiites poured into the streets of the capital to rejoice at the death sentence for Saddam Hussein, but the former dictator's fellow Sunnis paraded through his hometown chanting, "We will avenge you Saddam."

Both Saddam and the Shiite prime minister who has sought his execution called on their countrymen on Sunday to end the sectarian violence that has pushed Iraq to the brink of civil war, but the starkly differing reactions to the verdict and sentence throughout the country — though largely peaceful on Sunday — stoked fears that worse was to come.

In Sadr City, the Shiite stronghold of northeast Baghdad, youths took to the streets dancing and singing, despite a curfew declared for Sunday over the most restive parts of the country.

"Execute Saddam," they chanted. Many carried posters of Muqtada al-Sadr, the radical anti-American cleric whose Mahdi Army militia effectively runs the district.

"This is an unprecedented feeling of happiness," said 35-year-old Abu Sinan. "The verdict declares that Saddam is paying the price for murdering tens of thousands of Iraqis," he said.

Police said at least three people, including a two-year-old child, were killed and eight wounded in clashes between gunmen and Iraqi police in Baghdad's dominantly Sunni Azamiyah district. Residents said rockets and mortars began falling on the area beginning Saturday night and blamed Mahdi Army fighters.

Saddam was sentenced to death by Iraq's High Tribunal for crimes against humanity, along with his half brother and former intelligence chief Barzan Ibrahim, and Awad Hamed al-Bandar, head of the former Revolutionary Court. Three other defendants received lesser sentences and one was acquitted.

"This is the fate of all those who violated the sanctity of the citizens and shed the honest blood. This is the disgraceful end to the person who brought ordeals, pains and reckless wars to this country," Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said in a television address to the nation following the verdict.

"I say to all deluded remnants of the previous regime: The period of Saddam and his party is gone as did other dictators' like Mussolini and Hitler," said al-Maliki, who was forced into exile during Saddam's rule.

He called for an end to sectarian violence. Saddam issued a similar call, said his lawyer, Khalil al-Dulaimi.

"His message to the Iraqi people was 'pardon and do not take revenge on the invading nations and their people,'" al-Dulaimi said. "The president also asked his countrymen to 'unify in the face of sectarian strife.'"

In Tikrit, deep in the Sunni heartland north of Baghdad where support for Saddam runs hand-in-hand with deep distrust of Iraq's new Shiite-dominated government, gunshots rang out from rooftops and street corners as Saddam addressed the court. Sunni insurgents with AK-47s and heavy machine guns paraded in scores of vehicles in defiance of the curfew. A crowd about 1,000, including some policemen and many people holding aloft pictures of Saddam, chanted: "We will avenge you Saddam."

"The violence will only rise in the area after the hanging of Saddam, but the Americans care nothing about spilled Iraqi blood," said Mohammed Abbas, a 60-year-old retired teacher. "We are tribal people ... when any ordinary member of our tribe is killed, we will kill one from the enemy tribe, to say nothing of an important person like Saddam," Abbas said.

The U.S. military announced the deaths Saturday of a soldier in fighting in western Baghdad and a Marine assigned to Regimental Combat Team 7, who died from non-hostile causes Saturday in Anbar province. At least 13 U.S. troops have died in Iraq this month.

Celebrations were heady but mostly peaceful throughout the predominantly Shiite south, where Saddam's elite Republican Guard massacred thousands during a failed uprising in 1991. A line of cars festooned with plastic flowers wound through the streets of the holy city of Najaf, and crowds burned portraits of Saddam and his family. Salih Mahdi said Saddam's sentencing would help heal the loss of his brother Ali, who was 22 when he was arrested in Saddam's 1982 crackdown on the Dawa party, then an underground opposition and now linked to the prime minister. Ali Mahdi has not been seen since.

Mahdi, a retired civil servant, cursed Saddam and sobbed, saying: "You are cruel and cowardly and it was our misfortune that you ruled and terrorized us."

Celebratory gunfire also rang out in Kurdish neighborhoods across the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk, where 40-year-old Khatab Ahmed sat on a mattress in his living room to watch the trial coverage with his wife and six children.

"Thank God I lived to see the day when the criminals received their punishment," said Ahmed, a taxi driver.
 
Political setbacks are worse than hanging? :devil:



(For some people, it certainly seems that way. :rolleyes: )
 
Roxanne Appleby said:
Political setbacks are worse than hanging? :devil:



(For some people, it certainly seems that way. :rolleyes: )
Wore in the sense that this is a CIVIL WAR - Not our war. We should have pulled out when it became clear this was not an insurgent war.

Saddam will hang, but that is only another issue that will fuel the Civil dissatisfaction. Iraq will not be peaceful until it finds another Saddam to rule it.
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
Iraq will not be peaceful until it finds another Saddam to rule it.

You really think so? You don't think the otherside, now that it has had a taste of freedom, wouldn't turn the table and become the "insurgents" if another Sadam came to power?

:confused:
 
Jenny_Jackson said:
Wore in the sense that this is a CIVIL WAR - Not our war. We should have pulled out when it became clear this was not an insurgent war.

Saddam will hang, but that is only another issue that will fuel the Civil dissatisfaction. Iraq will not be peaceful until it finds another Saddam to rule it.
There was no war at all, until we shoved our noses in there.
 
With so many innocent casualties of war, not least the judiciary and their families involved in the trial of Saddam, I wonder if fewer lives might have been lost had Saddam become an 'innocent' casualty three years ago. The result was always likely to end with Saddam forfieting his life, holding a 'show trial' hasn't reduced the loss of life.
 
Neonlight...et al...


It was in a way a 'show trial', but not in the common understanding of that phrase.

The trial and the verdict did in fact 'show' the world that a system of justice, a court system, can exist, for the first time ever, in an oppressed society ground down by a ruthless dictator.

Far from hurting the war effort and the effort to free the Iraqi's, this more than anything demonstrates the feasibility of replacing a slave society with a free one.

Not an easy path by any means and freedom must be earned and protected but at least the Iraqi people have the opportunity.

Hats off to the Bush administration and the coalition of international forces who made this possible.

amicus...
 
Zeb_Carter said:
now that it has had a taste of freedom

What kind of freedoms have they tasted, and what did they think of the dish?
 
neonlyte said:
With so many innocent casualties of war, not least the judiciary and their families involved in the trial of Saddam, I wonder if fewer lives might have been lost had Saddam become an 'innocent' casualty three years ago. The result was always likely to end with Saddam forfieting his life, holding a 'show trial' hasn't reduced the loss of life.

That might have been a better solution, but it would have even better to have turned him over to the Kuwaitis. He would have been tried, conficted and hanged or beheaded for the murders his forces committed in his invasion of that country. His claim that "Kuwait is a province of Iraq" would have gotten him nowhere. Either that or turn him over to Iran to be tried, convicted and executed for his attack on that country in the Eighties. They probably would have been even quicker and it would have been diplomatically beneficial to the West. Either way, he would have been convicted and executed by a Muslim nation, with no, or minimal western influence.
 
Zeb_Carter said:
You really think so? You don't think the otherside, now that it has had a taste of freedom, wouldn't turn the table and become the "insurgents" if another Sadam came to power?

:confused:
Zeb,
You are absolutely right. However, the insurgents wouldn't last long with another "heavy handed" Saddam clone in power.

Stella,
That's right too. Iraq for 12 years was the most spied on, investigated and infiltrated country in the world. Then Bush decided to have his stupid little war inspite of all the intel that told him he was an idiot (still is for that matter).
 
I think this trial was a huge wasted opportunity to show the world that a system of justice can exist in an oppressed society ground down by a ruthless dictator.

The only taste of freedom brought to the people of Iraq by the invading forced and administration, the abolishment of the death penalty, was immediately overturned when the independent government took over. The trial itself, while I'm sure was impartial and fair in its decisions, can't be dissociated from things like judges being replaced, defence attorneys being assassinated, and even the prime minister publicly demanding that Saddam be condemned to death. This sort of political meddling in judicial procedures taints the trial in such a way that it's impossible to read some of these comments without thinking they're a joke. The flies changed seats, but everything else remains the same. The disrespect for human rights, the tribal mentality of representation at political level, all points to a civil war just waiting to explode.
 
Sigh.

Much as I dislike Saddam, and think that he deserves to be punished, I don't think an illegally elected government and illegally appointed judiciary are the way to do it.

The war was illegal, the government the U.S. set up was illegal. I don't think a group of bandits should be dispensing justice.
 
And the title of the thread should have been, "Bad for Bush, Another Sunday Morning for Saddam". With all the problems that surrounded this process, and with all the other judicial processes still in instruction, between appeals and new trial procedures, Saddam will be being thrown out of courts until he's 120.
 
Lauren Hynde said:
And the title of the thread should have been, "Bad for Bush, Another Sunday Morning for Saddam". With all the problems that surrounded this process, and with all the other judicial processes still in instruction, between appeals and new trial procedures, Saddam will be being thrown out of courts until he's 120.
I've just finished researching this very thing, Lauren,

It seems that in about 3-4 weeks the Defense will file a petition for Appeal. Meanwhile, Saddam will continue being tried for additional crimes.

The appeal court will have to begin prior to December 5th, but will have no limit to the time they have for a decision. The estimate is the appeals court will hand down it's verdict in March or early April. The Verdict will be a "rubber stamp" of the original trial. The Saddam will be executed within 30 days.

The words coming from the Iraq government is saying that that protests will die down (crushed?) within a few days with no lasting effects. I have a hard time believing that the Iraq government is going to make a Sunni Martyr out of Saddam with no consequenses.

It would have been so much better if Saddam had been shot dead in his hidy hole. Nobody seems to want to see this sentence from a realistic viewpoint. :rolleyes:
 
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