AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[AwkwardMD]

There are any number of ways to implement diversity and variety, just as there are many motivations and reasons for doing so. Whether one is doing it for moral, practical, or personal reasons doesn't matter in the end, but sometimes it can be easy to fall into comfort zones without realizing it.

I have a quote on my author page that a friend gave me, and I believe in it wholeheartedly; if you get too comfortable, you aren't learning anything. I count it as a great personal victory anytime someone's response to my advice is "I'll think about it," and I really hope that they do.

 

[Polyacrylate]

Reading your reviews is interesting, even if they are based on your perceptions of what makes for good writing, but save the preaching for Twitter.

I say save the umbrage for Twitter. "...please consider writing something with some inclusivity" doesn't come across as particularly preachy to me.

 

[NotWise]

There are any number of ways to implement diversity and variety, just as there are many motivations and reasons for doing so. Whether one is doing it for moral, practical, or personal reasons doesn't matter in the end, but sometimes it can be easy to fall into comfort zones without realizing it.

I have a quote on my author page that a friend gave me, and I believe in it wholeheartedly; if you get too comfortable, you aren't learning anything. I count it as a great personal victory anytime someone's response to my advice is "I'll think about it," and I really hope that they do.

It actually hadn't occurred to me to mention the ethnic or racial origin of secondary characters. For principle characters, I'm not sure if I would unless it was somehow necessary. I guess it would come out somehow, but my (white, male) office mate is married to an African American woman, and I've never once heard him tell anyone "my wife is black," or anything even similar to that.

Your request took me by surprise.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Reading your reviews is interesting, even if they are based on your perceptions of what makes for good writing,

That is pretty much how all reviews work, yes...

but save the preaching for Twitter.

No writer, artist, or creative soul should have to keep a checklist of inclusion and diversity nearby because it will make everyone feel better about themselves.

If AMD had said "all the stories I've reviewed have been about cuckoldry, maybe try a different theme some time?" nobody would bat an eyelid. If she had pointed out that an author's vocabulary was limited to the point of monotony, ditto. But when she makes the same point about race...

Anybody who posts their stories on Literotica is doing it for an audience. Anybody who asks for a review is already interested in how that audience feels about their story. That being the case, thinking about "how will readers react to this choice?" is a sensible idea.

Before you know it, your criticisms will no longer be about inclusion, but on whether or not the included minorities were written correctly,

You say this like it's a bad thing.

An author who makes an effort to grow can expect to get a higher, more demanding standard of critique. Not because the world is full of wokescolds trying to stop them writing, but because when they improve, the critique has to become more demanding to remain useful.

When a four-year-old asks me for feedback on a poem, I'll tell them "you wrote a poem, this is great!" because my expectations are low and at that stage, the most important thing is just to encourage them to keep writing and develop.

By the time that kid reaches twelfth grade, we're going to be talking about rhythm and scansion and a whole heap of other stuff that the four-year-old never even knew existed, because this is where the frontier of their ability now lies.

Receiving criticism is part of growing as a writer. Anybody requesting feedback already knows that (unless what they're actually looking for is just praise, in which case this might not be the right thread).

With that said... where race and culture are concerned on Literotica, the bar is very very low.

I'm a white kid from a whitebread childhood. I don't speak Arabic, Hindi, or Greek. I'm not Muslim. I'm only "immigrant" by the most technical of technicalities. I've never done sex work or (to my knowledge) dated anybody who has. My only cred on racial issues is that I spend a few minutes googling basic stuff, and for one series I'm lucky enough to have a beta reader who can give me a Hindu perspective on things. I'm sure any actual Indian/Iraqi/Greek readers could pick holes in my representations of their cultures, if they chose.

They don't, though. Instead, they send feedback like this:

"As someone who ... is of South Asian descent... this series resonated on so many levels."
"As a girl from Asia, I really like how you deal with cultural differences."
"I just wanted to drop you a note of thanks for your Red Scarf and Copper Coin stories. I was very pleasantly surprised to find some awesome stories focusing on South Asian and Muslim characters. It means a lot to see - thank you!"

IME, making even a cursory effort to portray non-white characters is far more likely to result in happy readers and nice feedback than to get me scolded.

and then these authors will spend less time creating and more time resenting the robotic demands of their work.

Counterpoint: making the effort to get inside the skin of a character whose life is very different to their own is one of the most creative things a writer can be doing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It actually hadn't occurred to me to mention the ethnic or racial origin of secondary characters.

It's not hard to indicate diversity without "mentioning" a secondary character's ethnic or racial origin. You can simply name them Julio or Ahmed or Mr. Suzuki or Mrs. Nguyen.

I have written one primary character who is African American, Dwight in My Fall and Rise. I mentioned his color once, and included one brief exchange in which his race was discussed. That's it. The readers knew his ethnicity and it mattered to a very small extent. Since the character was based on my (now) husband it was easy to write him without falling into stereotype, but my general feeling about it is that people are people. If their ethnicity is not a plot point, there is no reason to write them any differently from any other character. White is not a norm from which others deviate.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It actually hadn't occurred to me to mention the ethnic or racial origin of secondary characters. For principle characters, I'm not sure if I would unless it was somehow necessary. I guess it would come out somehow, but my (white, male) office mate is married to an African American woman, and I've never once heard him tell anyone "my wife is black," or anything even similar to that.

Sometimes it's obvious from physical description or from a character's name - I think anybody who sees my title "Anjali's Red Scarf" can guess that there's a non-white character involved, and many could take an educated guess about what kind of non-white.

Some cues are subtler. I'll take AMD's The Favor as an example. Context: Tracy has severe amnesia and is trying to figure out who she is:

The home screen of her phone was a picture of her and Jeff, shoulder to shoulder, each enjoying a glass of wine. Smiling honestly. Two younger women, barely more than girls, leaned over their outer shoulders. One on each side. The one on the left, the younger one if Tracy had to guess, was the one reaching forward to take the picture. Larissa and Shawnee.

Their skin was lighter than hers, and still a fair bit darker than Jeff's, but they definitely had her hair. Waves upon waves of voluminous curls.

...

"Hooters," Tracy said, one more time, as they stepped up onto the curb in front of the doors.

"Welcome back, Tracy!" the hostess said, as she held the door open. Tracy smiled and turned back to Brit, who was still dutifully providing support as they walked. "Great to see you again! Is tonight the night we're finally gonna get you in one of our shirts?"

"Uhhh—"

"It would look so beautiful against your skin," she said, brushing her hand familiarly along Tracy's forearm. Tracy forced a smile and looked back to Brit again.

...

Slick wetness engulfed Brit's fingertips, providing smooth pressure everywhere they slid. Always the middle finger swirled around her button, but the index and ring fingers also explored further down. Massaging [Tracy's] dark lips.

The story never says in so many words that Tracy is black. But the combination of her being significantly darker than her husband, the daughters' names, the curly hair, the waitress's mentioning her skin, and the "dark lips" strongly suggests it.

If you're writing a lot about how characters fit into the world around them, which is something both I and AMD do emphasise, race is likely to come into it eventually, because it has a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle influences on human interactions.

 

[MetaBob]

I would be interested

Concerted editing is mostly something I've done for other writers whose work I deeply respect, plus a few newbies who had rawer pieces that nonetheless had unique potential.

I have four full works posted here plus two partials, both of which I'm making slow progress on. The most approachable of them are probably Cascade Fire and Packback, though one of the partials, Flightback, may join them when it's done. All are short novels. I would be interested in what you (or any other experienced editor) has to say, especially Cascade Fire, which I'm quite pleased with even though some might think I take too many liberties with paragraph structure when in stream-of-consciousness. Packback has a slightly updated version on Smashwords, which probably includes a couple free chapters. I can send a token for the rest, if desired.

 

[NotWise]

It's not hard to indicate diversity without "mentioning" a secondary character's ethnic or racial origin. You can simply name them Julio or Ahmed or Mr. Suzuki or Mrs. Nguyen.

That's pretty easy, but in real life America you might need to go out of your way to use a name that's clearly associated with a racial or ethnic background. My lily-white daughter has a married name that is usually African American. An Asian woman could be Sara Jones.

I have written one primary character who is African American, Dwight in My Fall and Rise. I mentioned his color once, and included one brief exchange in which his race was discussed. That's it. The readers knew his ethnicity and it mattered to a very small extent. Since the character was based on my (now) husband it was easy to write him without falling into stereotype, but my general feeling about it is that people are people. If their ethnicity is not a plot point, there is no reason to write them any differently from any other character. White is not a norm from which others deviate.

I've written Latino and Latina characters, and an American Indian character. Is that diverse enough?

 

[NotWise]

The story never says in so many words that Tracy is black. But the combination of her being significantly darker than her husband, the daughters' names, the curly hair, the waitress's mentioning her skin, and the "dark lips" strongly suggests it.

If you're writing a lot about how characters fit into the world around them, which is something both I and AMD do emphasise, race is likely to come into it eventually, because it has a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle influences on human interactions.

So diversity means skin color?

 

[MelissaBaby]

That's pretty easy, but in real life America you might need to go out of your way to use a name that's clearly associated with a racial or ethnic background. My lily-white daughter has a married name that is usually African American. An Asian woman could be Sara Jones.



I've written Latino and Latina characters, and an American Indian character. Is that diverse enough?

If someone said you were writing diverse characters, it wasn't me.[Edit: meant to say NOT writing diverse characters. Apologies to NotWise]

I agree, no name is an absolute signifier of ethnicity. Joaquin Phoenix is not Latino. My point was, there is no reason not to use names that indicate possible ethnicity for characters whose ethnicity is irrelevant to the story.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

White is not a norm from which others deviate.

Exactly.

Many of the repeat main and secondary characters in my series Counting Pennies/Investing Time/Spending Dollars are non-white and about half of the supporting tertiary characters are non-white. Sometimes, ethnicity comes up anecdotally (my FMC bonding with her Vietnamese BFF over the TV show that came on every night in the German homeless shelter where she grew up in), sometimes it’s sexual (my MMC’s 1NS with a twerking Trinidadian-Indian coworker), sometimes it’s familial (MMC and FMC’s house manager teaching her Spanish as a little girl), sometimes a soapbox (the black law student my MMC doesn’t hire because he instead hired his less qualified white daughter) and sometimes not even mentioned except through names and varietal appearance and diverse experiences (Daisuke, Drequan, Miss Aroyo, Mr. Cho etc, though of course, as NotWise pointed out, these do not really “develop” characters and pander a bit to dimensionless stereotypes...). The next book in the series, “As an Apple Tree” is as much about race as anything else since the protagonists Connor and Kimaada are black/white half siblings. Some of my characters’ races are purposefully obscured, like my MMC’s blonde blue-eyed sidekick who he later learns is actually Chechnen Muslim mafia, and his billionaire quant client who’s Black-British.

I’m trying to write a world that reflects the real world I know and experience; to me, it just wouldn’t be readable if I ignored the fact that the world is made up of many, diverse people.

 

[NotWise]

* * *

 

[SeabornFare]

Ok.

My question:
Why does an author have to be non-white to have a non-white minor character?

AwkwardMD's statment:
I would like to point out, without blaming anyone, that 100% of the characters that have appeared through these first four stories I've been handed, are all white.

Your statement:
:
Perhaps you should encourage more non-white authors to write.

I don't get your point. Mine still stands.

In my last story, the MMC has conversations with a total of six co-workers. Two of them are black. Later in the story, the MMC mentions that the women he is currently seeing is half-Japanese. To me, having that diversity made the story more realistic and said good things about the MMC. I think that's the kind of thing AwkwardMD was suggesting.

[Politics and trollling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]

 

[SeabornFare]

That is pretty much how all reviews work, yes...



If AMD had said "all the stories I've reviewed have been about cuckoldry, maybe try a different theme some time?" nobody would bat an eyelid. If she had pointed out that an author's vocabulary was limited to the point of monotony, ditto. But when she makes the same point about race...

Anybody who posts their stories on Literotica is doing it for an audience. Anybody who asks for a review is already interested in how that audience feels about their story. That being the case, thinking about "how will readers react to this choice?" is a sensible idea.



You say this like it's a bad thing.

An author who makes an effort to grow can expect to get a higher, more demanding standard of critique. Not because the world is full of wokescolds trying to stop them writing, but because when they improve, the critique has to become more demanding to remain useful.

When a four-year-old asks me for feedback on a poem, I'll tell them "you wrote a poem, this is great!" because my expectations are low and at that stage, the most important thing is just to encourage them to keep writing and develop.

By the time that kid reaches twelfth grade, we're going to be talking about rhythm and scansion and a whole heap of other stuff that the four-year-old never even knew existed, because this is where the frontier of their ability now lies.

Receiving criticism is part of growing as a writer. Anybody requesting feedback already knows that (unless what they're actually looking for is just praise, in which case this might not be the right thread).

With that said... where race and culture are concerned on Literotica, the bar is very very low.

I'm a white kid from a whitebread childhood. I don't speak Arabic, Hindi, or Greek. I'm not Muslim. I'm only "immigrant" by the most technical of technicalities. I've never done sex work or (to my knowledge) dated anybody who has. My only cred on racial issues is that I spend a few minutes googling basic stuff, and for one series I'm lucky enough to have a beta reader who can give me a Hindu perspective on things. I'm sure any actual Indian/Iraqi/Greek readers could pick holes in my representations of their cultures, if they chose.

They don't, though. Instead, they send feedback like this:

"As someone who ... is of South Asian descent... this series resonated on so many levels."
"As a girl from Asia, I really like how you deal with cultural differences."
"I just wanted to drop you a note of thanks for your Red Scarf and Copper Coin stories. I was very pleasantly surprised to find some awesome stories focusing on South Asian and Muslim characters. It means a lot to see - thank you!"

IME, making even a cursory effort to portray non-white characters is far more likely to result in happy readers and nice feedback than to get me scolded.



Counterpoint: making the effort to get inside the skin of a character whose life is very different to their own is one of the most creative things a writer can be doing.

You write a lot, and most of it is hyperbolic absurdity to prove a point.

Creativity is about ideas, not about writing about a different skin color, which was the basis of AwkawrdMD's statement. So much white. The most creative thing a writer can do is write without bowing to the demands of an SJW demanding diversity.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Creativity is about ideas, not about writing about a different skin color, which was the basis of AwkawrdMD's statement. So much white. The most creative thing a writer can do is write without bowing to the demands of an SJW demanding diversity.

This is the third time your comments in this thread have been insulting to AMD: asking whether she’s “really” qualified (as if to insinuate that she’s got “false credentials”), demanding that she save her opinions that don’t align with your own for Twitter (on her own thread, no less!) and dismissing her insights about lacking characterization diversity in the stories she’d read as “an SJW demanding diversity”.

I recall as well that you tried to engage AMD in off-base, low level antagonism in another thread, too, where the author of “The Plague Dance” has asked for feedback.

May I ask: why are you reading this thread if you have such distaste for AMD’s POV on writing? I could understand if you were merely being contrary—just because we’re civil doesn’t mean we all have to agree about everything—but this seems, at best, boorish.

You stated that creativity is about ideas. I think we all agree that creativity is important, but many of us feel that writing is a skill, and we appreciate the opportunity to discuss the skill and best practices with others, especially writers like AMD who think critically about a spectrum of topics, issues and styles. Is there an example you could share with us of your criticisms that is fundamentally counter her opinions and advice? Do you have a sample of your own writing we could read that illustrate your opinion about creativity and ideas?

 

[SeabornFare]

This is the third time your comments in this thread have been insulting to AMD: asking whether she’s “really” qualified (as if to insinuate that she’s got “false credentials”), demanding that she save her opinions that don’t align with your own for Twitter (on her own thread, no less!) and dismissing her insights about lacking characterization diversity in the stories she’d read as “an SJW demanding diversity”.

I recall as well that you tried to engage AMD in off-base, low level antagonism in another thread, too, where the author of “The Plague Dance” has asked for feedback.

May I ask: why are you reading this thread if you have such distaste for AMD’s POV on writing? I could understand if you were merely being contrary—just because we’re civil doesn’t mean we all have to agree about everything—but this seems, at best, boorish.

You stated that creativity is about ideas. I think we all agree that creativity is important, but many of us feel that writing is a skill, and we appreciate the opportunity to discuss the skill and best practices with others, especially writers like AMD who think critically about a spectrum of topics, issues and styles. Is there an example you could share with us of your criticisms that is fundamentally counter her opinions and advice? Do you have a sample of your own writing we could read that illustrate your opinion about creativity and ideas?

Most of your questions could be answered if you read every response and put some thought into why I say what I say. Are you part of the hold my hand generation?

Your EDIT is a far better reason for writing diverse characters (ethnicities, cultures, struggles, viewpoints, etc.) than your original post, if only for the experience and the exercise of writing a wide range of characters, personalities, and possible conflicts that could arise from such an eclectic cast. Writing to learn is much better than writing to satisfy a feel-good quota. (I wish you would have said that the first time.)

This is an open forum and awkward has placed themselves in a position to be commented on. I can enjoy and respect 50% of what they say, and dislike the rest, and I can comment on whichever half I wish.

 

[MelissaBaby]

. So much white. The most creative thing a writer can do is write without bowing to the demands of an SJW demanding diversity.

Nobody made any demands.

 

[SeabornFare]

Nobody made any demands.

Semantics.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Semantics.

Maybe it's just me, but in a discussion among writers, I would think that the meaning of words matters.

 

[SeabornFare]

Maybe it's just me, but in a discussion among writers, I would think that the meaning of words matters.

I would think that writers would understand the meaning of Subtext, as well as being able to recognize it.

 

[NotWise]

Semantics.

It isn't just semantics. It pretty much the hyperbole that you accused Bramblethorn of using.

I'm done with this talk. Let AMD get back to the reviews.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I would think that writers would understand the meaning of Subtext, as well as being able to recognize it.

I am not a fan of Awkward, but I respect the fact that she says what she means, and means what she says. Pretending that she said something other than what she did and calling it subtext is, to be really clear so you don't misinterpret my wordage, bullshit.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So diversity means skin color?

Diversity covers a lot of things. Skin colour (and more broadly, race and ethnicity, for which skin is an imperfect proxy) are part of that story but definitely not all of it.

There's plenty that could be said about these topics, but I think we're at risk of derailing AMD's review thread, so if people want to continue on this issue perhaps a new thread in AH would be the way to go?

 

[SeabornFare]

It isn't just semantics. It pretty much the hyperbole that you accused Bramblethorn of using.

I'm done with this talk. Let AMD get back to the reviews.

My comments would be one and done if Awkward or no one else responded to them. You should let AMD continue her reviews by keeping your fingers still, unless you want this to continue indefinitely. I much prefer their reviews to anything else I've read on their thread.

I am not a fan of Awkward, but I respect the fact that she says what she means, and means what she says. Pretending that she said something other than what she did and calling it subtext is, to be really clear so you don't misinterpret my wordage, bullshit.

Hide behind that nuance all that you'd like. A passive-aggressive admonishment in the realm of social justice is as harsh as a demand, only a little more demeaning.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Yukonnights - Our Femdom Valentine

Link

I love that you experimented. That is incredible, and shows a lot of creativity and inspiration. Trying something new is flat-out, unequivocally awesome. I don’t think it works at all as you have it here, but still! Fucking awesome!

I’ve read your writing before. I know you can craft a story, and I usually like your characters, so I did just like you thought I might and just read the first couple pages to get a feel for what you tried here with Our Femdom Valentine.

***

One. Proper names.

I dislike this alternative because it hits a pet peeve of mine (Note: Pet Peeve is code for personal taste). Not that anyone is paying attention to the style of what I do, but I usually try to avoid criticizing the dialog of other writers because dialog tends to be a very personal thing. A lot of writers are drawing on the speech patterns of themselves, family, friends, or those around them, and me wagging a finger at them just makes me look like a bitch. There’s a lot of room to have people speak how you want because English is a language with a pretty loose structure, and humans are pattern-recognizing fiends. All you have to do is get in the blalpark, and we'll figure out what you meant.

However, nobody uses proper nouns like this. Not ever. I would encourage anyone reading this to have this in the back of their mind the next time they are at home talking with a significant other. You will *never* use their first name in the middle of a conversation when they’re in the same room as you, and especially not when they’re making eye contact with you. The one exception I can think of is if, say, Person A is upset and ranting, and Person B is trying to get them to pause and take a breath, so they might say Person A’s proper name because it’s so jarring to hear.

Jarring. If you’re feeling bold, try slipping their name into a sentence and watch how they respond. I predict confusion.

Now, in a story, you will probably get a pass on this from most readers, and I think that’s because most people aren’t very aware of their own speech patterns. We as humans reach a level of communication skills which we are comfortable with, and which gets the job done in our daily lives, and we don’t spend a lot of time improving it or reflecting on it. We don’t think about our accent or dialect as being any such thing, because it’s so natural for us. Then, as long as what we’re reading vaguely resembles what we might say in the same circumstance, we’ll forgive it.

Not me! Not today! No forgiveness! No proper nouns in dialog between only two characters!

***

Two. Head hopping

There are several unannounced switches between Anna’s head and Sandi’s head within the same conversations. The story is written in the first person, so trying to attach dialog to inner monologues was difficult for me. Yes, the lines where you inserted a proper noun were very clear, but the tradeoff against the lost dialog tags was a net loss for me.

I don’t think that bouncing back and forth and exploring everyone’s thoughts for the sake of constant clarity is worth the time I will need to spend reading backwards to try to figure out when the switch happened, because that’s the thing. If character 1 is thinking about something, and then a character is thinking about something else, and then a character is thinking about another something else, and then character 2 is thinking about an entirely different thing… which of those middle things get attributed to who? Where was the switch? Is there a clue that I missed?

Just like that, I’m pulled out of the story, because now I have to stop down to carefully parse the literal words rather than just letting them paint a picture as I go. The head-hopping wasn't directly related to your dialog tag workaround, but it definitely made it harder for me to keep everything straight. Your difficulty level was high enough without adding in extra variables.

***

Three. Alternatives

While I agree that dialog tags are not real, neither is forcing characters to say each other’s names constantly for the sake of clarity. I don’t know that I think trying to be strictly ‘real’ is a goal worth achieving. I write in the third person all the time, and that involves using a perspective of a character who does not exist even within a fictional setting. The actual third person does not exist. Even having nested unreality seems less egregious to me than your workaround.

I am not unsympathetic to the problem that spawned this experiment. I too feel like a lot of dialog tagging can clutter a story. In my own writing, I have done some experiments to resolve this differently. I have come up with three systems that I think work when used in moderation.

System 1: Back and forth (fair warning - this system is intolerant of a bouncing perspective)

In a conversation between only two people, you simply establish who speaks first, and then who finishes.

“Hello Ann,” John said. <1>

“Hello to you too.” <2>

“Good to see you again.” <1>

“I’m surprised to hear you say that, especially after the last time.” <2>

“It’s been a long time. Maybe I’ve moved on.” <1>

“That doesn’t sound like you at all.” <2>

“Maybe I’ve changed.” <1>

“I’m hearing a lot of maybe’s,” she said. <2>

As long as there are only two people speaking, and you keep the dialog relatively free of narrative, the reader can follow a back and forth for a fair amount of time without needing to have their hand held. The call and response nature of this helps the reader to keep the perspectives straight in their head, and as long as you don’t ask too much of them at a time, you can avoid a lot of tagging.

System 2: Simultaneous narration (fair warning - this system is intolerant of multiple characters who use the same pronoun)

If you are very careful with how you narrate action around dialog, you can use proximity to indicate a lot.

“Hello Ann,” John said. <1>

She looked down at the ground, and ran her tongue along the inside of her gums. “Hello to you too.” <2>

“Good to see you again.” <1>

“I’m surprised to hear you say that, especially after the last time.” <2>

“It’s been a long time.” He leaned back and folded his arms across his chest. “Maybe I’ve moved on.” <1>

“That doesn’t sound like you at all.” <2>

One eyebrow arched over his brow. “Maybe I’ve changed.” <1>

She shook her head, and said, “I’m hearing a lot of maybe’s." <2>

As long as you can use two different sets of pronouns to refer to your characters, it’s entirely possible to add narrated actions like these that serve other purposes primarily, like indicating body language, that also anchor who is saying what.


System 3: Uniqueness (fair warning - this system requires some setup before you can really exploit it)

Have very unique characters, with very unique voices. In one of my stories, I have a party of five characters with relatively unique modes of speech, and some of my favorite scenes involved having all five of them talking at the same time (for context, these characters just got caught in a net trap).

“—leaves without their scout?! I mean, that’s—” <4>

“—too far! Can you lift your leg a— <1>

“—in yer pants fer a week! This is your fault, ye sonnuva—” <3>

“—can barely move, and who is grabbing my—” <2>

“—never been in a net before! This is gr—” <5>

“—more! More! Damnit, move your—” <1>

“—orget about the broadsword! Who is grabbing my ass!?” <2>

“—having a really great time, just so everyone kn—” <5>

“—got it. I got it! I got i—” <1>

It’s all there. One character is level-headed. One character is perpetually indignant about something. One character is a dwarf with a thick Scottish brogue. One character turns almost every sentence into innuendo (although in this case the pertinent detail is that he’s also the scout). One character is relentlessly optimistic. If I do the legwork and establish these personality traits, and create characters that are distinct and unique, then scenes like this are completely self-evident without any tagging at all, and I'm covering not just two but five characters trying to talk over each other while keeping the pacing of it lively and quick.

***

Not every experiment works. Many of mine have been mixed, or elicited a lot of displeased comments from readers. Keep trying different things.

On another note, I was really delighted to see that you have done a lot of work to find your voice as an author. This story is a lot more… indulgent and rich, and heavy on the romance, and I think that the comments you got reflect how your readers appreciate that. Keep up the awesome work!