AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[TN10IC]

I finished reading NotWise story Love is enoug and left it 5-stars. It was very good. And then I came to this Review Thread to read the reviewer’s analysis. And then, I went back and reread the story so I could understand the criticisms!

I feel like I’m in English class, and I wasn’t an A student to begin with. Not to say I’m dumb, but some of this is over my head. I have been enjoying reading stories on Literotica for 20 years and never would have thought I would feel like I was in a classroom. But if English class had been this sexy, maybe I woulda got an A the first time

Dr. Awkward, are you a professor of English or writing? I’m learning a lot, and I thank you all for teaching this old dog some new things about literature.

 

[SimonDoom]

Hi Vix,

Thank you for sharing your opinions. I must admit, I'm a bit confused, and I'm not sure if the way you perceived some parts of the story are similar to the way I had intended to write them. I've just read 'Cat Person', and although I fully agree there are parallels, I think there are also substantial differences. I wonder if you see similarities in the two stories where I see differences.



The way I wrote the first part of the story was not intended to give Lou the feelings you've described here. He was focused on getting in bed with Tsibekti, he had an active form of tunnel vision, and I doubt he would have had any negative feelings on his mind. Not until the moment Tsibekti left. After that moment, he realized his mistakes and it was even later that he started fearing to face Tsibekti again; a fear which, he freely admitted himself, made him look for all the excuses he himself had put in place at that time. But I never intended Lou to have feelings of rejection, and disappointment at being misunderstood. He only refused to take blame for what he'd done.

I think it's a sign of the success of the story that you are getting different interpretations of it, some of which are not what you expected. Although I didn't think of the term "tunnel vision" in my assessment of Lou, it's an apt term to describe the way I thought of him. Your narrative of his actions and motivations occupies a very uncomfortable space I might call "implausible deniability." I don't see Lou as a monster. He's probably a morally ordinary person, but he's done a very bad thing -- because, after all, ordinary people sometimes do very bad things -- and the story doesn't pretend there's an adequate way to atone for it or remedy it. Lou's perspective, as you've described it, occupies a strange, uncertain moral ground that is susceptible to being interpreted in different ways. I think that's a good thing.

This is a very good example, in my view, of a story that really doesn't satisfy the alleged Literotica requirement that the "victim must enjoy it," but it's nevertheless entirely appropriate here because the sex is not presented to be arousing to the reader. It's uncomfortable. It's not at all a rape fantasy story. It's more a deconstruction of the fantasy. The second half of the story is different from anything else I've read at Literotica.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Hi Vix,

Thank you for sharing your opinions. I must admit, I'm a bit confused, and I'm not sure if the way you perceived some parts of the story are similar to the way I had intended to write them….

I think it's a sign of the success of the story that you are getting different interpretations of it, some of which are not what you expected.

Lou's perspective, as you've described it, occupies a strange, uncertain moral ground that is susceptible to being interpreted in different ways. I think that's a good thing.

I agree with Simon, that this is a good result.

An anecdote and plot summary if you’ll permit:

About a year ago, I asked AMD to read a story of mine called “Ten Thousand Spoons”. The main character is a lonely, mixed race NYC transplant struggling to adjust to the city. She doesn’t have any friends or family, and later in the story, the reader learns it’s because her parents were killed in a horrible plane crash and her grandparents died shortly before her move. The FMC meets a British man that reminds her of her family, and begins an affair that she can’t see—forest for trees—is making her life even more isolated. Parallel to this, her Afro-Caribbean coworker’s sister’s family is falling apart because the husband is a philanderer; the FMC—again, forest for trees—is jealous of what she presumes is that family’s closeness. When the FMC meets the coworker’s teenage nephew, they connect romantically because they understand each other’s loneliness.

I didn’t title the story “Ten Thousand Spoons” as a song reference (only after the fact did I later learn it is... ugh)—the title came from part of my story that describes a dress the FMC buys. The story is subtle, but I expected that readers would understand TTS is about the pathos of loneliness— actually, I’m just very lucky that some do read it that way. Some read it as just a nice/cute light romance. Some read it as a comment about affairs. That’s how AMD read it, and her review discussed affairs and irony—which wasn’t what I had in mind when writing the story.

As the author, I’m not in control of or responsible for the reader’s interpretation. So, I took it as a compliment that TTS was, arguably, complex enough that different readers had different takeaways, even if it wasn’t what I’d intended and expected. I can’t think of any great works of literature where all analysts agree on the story’s exact meaning and takeaway; good stories often have a spectrum of meaningful analysis—which I was trying to allude to in suggesting a spectrum of interpretation of Tsibekti’s role in the second half of IYV.

I’m Your Valentine thus reminded me of Cat Person—imho, a story that can be read and discussed in a way where, even if the readers disagree, the story is a starting place for dialogue. I’m not sure what in that opinion is insulting. I thought I’d made clear it’s a compliment—it was certainly intended as a compliment.

My opinion of IYV was based on my reading more than a week ago, read once solely for enjoyment and reflected on after reading, in the course of a very busy week. I typically don’t re-read stories, and certainly don’t try to memorize or perfectly reconstruct scenes unless I’ve been asked to edit/beta them; it would have been artificial for me to do that in this instance. Overanalyzing is both my job and a personal trait; you’re right to take anything, both my compliments and opinions, with a grain of salt. However, you asked a specific question in this thread regarding whether the second half of the story might have been questionable—whether Tsibekti’s actions came off realistically (and, subsequently, that Lou learning a lesson was a “possibility”, ie, not a given fact). I gave my responsive opinion.

Likewise, if there are specific words in my comment that you think go too far or not far enough, such as “rejection” versus “avoiding blame”, please ignore them if you think they’re incorrect semantics—my comment isn’t meant to reconstruct your story or interpret your thoughts, but merely to explain my own thoughts.

 

[AwkwardMD]

AlexBailey's story is next. I read it and processed it, and I should have something typed up in the next day or two.

 

[Bramblethorn]

— Just anecdotal of how I feel that pressure: when you wrote in your comment, “… or a cis-woman to inflict on her cis-male rapist …” did you intentionally chose for using ‘cis-woman’ instead of ‘cis-female’, or for using ‘cis-male’ instead of ‘cis-man’? It may seem nit-picking and irrelevant, but ‘woman’ vs. ‘male’ seems an odd choice to me, and these are the kind of details I start worrying about, because I don’t know what is and what is not relevant in this ‘field’. And it could very well be that you used a language nuance that I’m not be aware of. —

Yes, there is a nuance here.

In English, "male" and "female" can function both as nouns and adjectives. But using them as nouns, in referring to people, can have creepy connotations. For example:

"I know lots of female writers" is fine.

"I know lots of females" is the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from a pick-up artist.

This is a bit contextual, and there are some situations where it might be more acceptable, but in general English it's better to avoid referring to women as "females". Referring to men as "males" can also come across as hostile though there's not quite as much baggage there.

Here, Vix is using "woman" as noun but "male" as an adjective to qualify "rapist". I'd assume the qualification of "cis" is to indicate that she doesn't intend her statement to encompass trans characters, where the dynamics could be different.

 

[b7ffh1]

Daniella and the Lions, Redux

Thanks to everyone for their feedback, especially to AMD.

I have revised the story, and it is now up.

I would love to see what you think of this version.

https://www.literotica.com/beta/s/daniella-and-the-lions

 

[AlexBailey]

b7ffh1's Daniella and the Lions, Redux:

First off, I need to say that I am not the best audience for NC, so I did not benefit much from the kink, so don't take my comments as a critique of the kink.

I will say that the grammar and mechanics of the story worked well enough. You have some compelling story in the first part, but aside from a tendril of metaphor, it has nothing to do with the second part. I feel like you missed out on opportunity to tie it all together and make it a more powerful and engaging piece.

b7ffh1 quoted and agreed with SimonDoom's comment:

.... b7ffh1's story isn't about Daniella's kink, it's about the husband James's kink. He's the narrator and the POV character. The story isn't so much about Daniella as it is about how he feels about Daniella. I'm sure that male fantasy perspective -- admiring his capable wife but finding her humiliation arousing --...

As a reader I did not feel that I was on the inside of this dynamic and was partly put off by the abuse.


Just brainstorming here, but Dani and her husband could have spent an evening in a blind, observing breeding lions, discussing the power exchange, inspired to talk about voyeurism and fantasies of conquest and domination. Maybe they could go back to the hotel and try to role play in a way that doesn't work for them because it's too safe. This would set up a background for the characters, one where husband and wife could have an understanding as they see the opportunity to exercise a fantasy unfold while Mr.Brooks looks on in horror as he sees a man watch, and even enjoy his wife being defiled.

The setup for Dani's character is that she is brilliant. Having her be able to 'top from the bottom' on the fly could have worked as she deeply humiliates the police chief.

The strip search could play out on a much deeper level as Dani would have the power, possibly where the police chief would become more frustrated as he is unable to derive pleasure as he destroys his carreer, further embarrassing himself as Dani refuses to let him have agency. The police chief would become more and more impotent and publicly humiliated as Dani and James exercise a taboo fantasy and become closer in the process in a way that the reader could watch unfold.

Metaphor could be tapped throughout the strip-search scene as the husband/narrator could reflect on observations he'd previously shared with Dani about the lions and how to train them to stay away from the villages.

Again, I'm not into NC and did not get much kink value, but still I would have preferred to see the story more developed.
Just my 2¢.

 

[AwkwardMD]

A T-Girl and a Tomboy pt 01, by AlexBailey

Link

I found a few things I think worth talking about in The Tomboy and the T-Girl.

Thing the first: The lesbian who’s just never had the right dick

In some of my other feedback I’ve talked about problems that are only really problems when considering other media, or taking in a broader scope of media, and this is one of those. As Bramblethorn pointed out recently, putting a Lesbian in James Bond’s path just raises the seduction difficulty level to Expert rather than rendering the pairing a complete non-starter, and that’s just… Ugh.

Now, I know this story is heading in the direction of gender and sexuality being very fluid, but I’m not sure I see the value in starting where you did. Iin your mind, you probably saw this change in Jena as reflective of just how special Alex is, and the place where Alex resides at the intersection of sexuality and gender, but this is a line that every lesbian has heard from at least a few straight guys, and it wears very thin. 100% of the time, it’s an unwanted pickup line. 100%.

Really, though, it shouldn’t matter who Alex is. This is Jena’s preference, and for it to be so rigidly defined at the start but easily changed betrays her as a prop, rather than a character with depth. Let Alex be special on their own merits instead of stocking their trophy case with the prize that none of the other straight dudes could win.

As near as I can tell, there’s no reason that Jena couldn’t have just been Bi or pansexual. Making her gay doesn’t change how fated their togetherness was/is. Don’t get me wrong. I have always been drawn to women with a queer vibe, especially if those women figured out their sexuality before I did.

Just know that this is something that queer women deal with, and it’s not something I would encourage.

Thing the second: Absurd plot structure

It felt like you said to yourself “I want to have a boy go to a school function dressed as a girl” and tried to work backwards through a dozen hurdles that would otherwise have prevented this from happening the way you wrote it. The problem with going over hurdles backwards is that it is awkward as hell. Female on the birth certificate and nobody corrected it? Enrolled in school as a Female? Lengthy vacations to make sure that none of the important characters know who Alex is? This story is working so hard to justify something that really doesn’t matter, to the point that the absurdity of it is distracting.

There were other ways to have gotten to the necessary start point that didn’t require so much plot contortion.

Thing the third: Pacing

This one was hard for me to spot. When I first read this story, I was actually really upset by it but I couldn’t figure out why. I kind of knew I was in the wrong, so I called in three other friends whose opinion I trusted and they all told me I was wrong too. I felt like the story wasn’t taking any part of what was happening seriously, which undermined the content, which touches on some topics that are close to my heart.

It took me a while to realize that it was the mini-chapters that was doing it. There are, perhaps, thirty (maybe more?) mini-chapters within this first ‘Chapter’ of the story. Each mini-chapter has its own internal tension arc. Each mini-chapter ends on a cliffhanger, or a rising action, or a stinger.

(A stinger is a final line of dialog before a break of some kind that goes for impact over value. CSI: Miami is the best example of this. Every single episode featured multiple stingers. There’d be a dead guy buried in the ice in an ice rink, and Horatio would look down, put on his sunglasses, and say something like “We better hurry. Looks like this case is getting... cold,” followed by Roger Daltry screaming YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!)

These mini-chapters created a kind of artificial speed in the pacing of the story. You would brush on sensitive topics, important topics, but it always felt like it was in a rush to get to the next sexy bit because of the way these mini-chapters interacted with the action. I know that’s not the case, but that was how it felt and I think the culprit is these mini-chapters.

If it helps to think about it visually, this could be someone who sleeps normally (long chapters with slower pacing, only returning to near-wakefulness (read: peak tension) after lengthy breaks) compared with someone with sleep apnea (short chapters with fast pacing, with only short breaks between near-wakefulness). It’s exhausting.

Thing the fourth: Hypersexuality as a result of sexual abuse being used to push a story along

This one left the most unsavory taste in my mouth. Two of the characters, Sandy and Claire, are obviously struggling with some kind of sexual abuse or trauma. Hypersexuality is a common direct effect of sexual abuse, and you gave them that in spades… except that their role in this story is to enable the sex to happen faster. That’s… disheartening, like parking in a handicapped spot because it's the most convenient. I would be surprised if you didn’t have some things planned for Sandy and Claire later on, but the way they are framed, and the way their background is explored (it isn’t), just sets them up to be enablers. Jena and Alex aren’t having sex fast enough. I need someone in the room who will make Jena sit on Alex’s face already… but who?

Hypersexuality is, I’m sure, the fodderiest fodder that Lit has ever seen, and it’s probably almost never explored in the ways the topic deserves to be explored, but that doesn’t make it okay. That doesn’t make it not a problem to the many people that struggle with it, and those people deserve compassion. They get objectified enough as it is.

 

[AwkwardMD]

If you’re not going to give constructive advice you shouldn’t offer to review stories.

IIRC, your response to my criticism and advice was, essentially, "If this is wrong, I don't want to be right," which is fine, but I wasn't going to spend time defending my position if you weren't going to listen. Please stop lurking in my thread, pretending like you don't read it but quickly jumping in to defend any story I dissect.

You are allowing me to live rent-free in your head. Stop it. Evict me and move on with your life.

 

[AwkwardMD]

AMD, thanks again for taking the time to read the story, and provide your feedback. I apologize for misreading it as an attack.

Thank you for this reply. I know it took me a little while to respond, but the last few weeks have been wearing me out. I appreciate that you tried to hear what I and others were saying. That you came around to our point of view is gravy; what matters is that you were willing to listen.

I also really appreciate that you are the first writer who has ever tried to fact check me on my own credentials with regards to writing dark themes. I'm gonna get "Dark Horse is the Abu Ghraib of erotica" engraved on my tombstone.

I saw that you edited and resubmitted Daniella and the Lions, and I'll read it, but it's gonna be a while before I can. In the meantime, though, be wary of relying too much on my opinion. I know that it can be hard to get meaningful feedback on erotica (which is the real reason I started giving feedback in the first place), but I'm only one person. I'm so far down the popular authors list on Literotica that you'd need a telescope to find me. I don't have it all figured out.

(this is not a plea to have others come fluff my ego)

 

[AlexBailey]

Thanks AwkDoc. I really appreciate your time and thoughts.


You've provided a lot to chew on. I'm going to think a lot about your feedback for a while, I'll definitely have a few questions and comments after I get a chance to digest it. For now I'd like to respond to 'Thing The Second.'

Link


Thing the second: Absurd plot structure

It felt like you said to yourself “I want to have a boy go to a school function dressed as a girl” and tried to work backwards through a dozen hurdles that would otherwise have prevented this from happening the way you wrote it. The problem with going over hurdles backwards is that it is awkward as hell. Female on the birth certificate and nobody corrected it? Enrolled in school as a Female? Lengthy vacations to make sure that none of the important characters know who Alex is? This story is working so hard to justify something that really doesn’t matter, to the point that the absurdity of it is distracting.

There were other ways to have gotten to the necessary start point that didn’t require so much plot contortion.

Lol. You're right about the contortion and spot-on about the part in bold. I considered removing the whole birth certificate thing. It doesn't really have a very big impact for the overall story. I'd meant to imply that both birth certificates exist and Alex's mom uses them to her convenience. I originally put it in as a plot device but the way things turned out it was probably unnecessary except that it helps speak to Alex's mom's issues. It would probably have been better without it.


This is my first attempt at novel writing and it did not start out as fiction. It was originally journaling recommended as a counseling excercise. It got me into writing. I got interested in posting my story anonymously somewhere but I wanted to learn how to write first. I found the Author's Hangout. Keeping it non-fiction had some problems: first, It was full of underage sexual content. Second, it was too identifying. Third, it wasn't what I thought would work for Literotica.

This project has been a huge learning process. I had a complete rough draft done before I made some major overhauls, including changing to present tense. As I read back through it there a few minor artifacts left over from the original ideas, but there are very few details that don't tie in and come back around later in the story.



I settled on a fictional erotic autobiography that contains a tremendous amount of real events from my life, sifted and rearranged and put back together:

I was the femme boyfriend prom date for the captain of the cheerleading squad. She and her squad made me up and dressed me for a day at school and Friday night at the school stadium for the 'powder-puff' football game. The girls dressed in football gear and had a complete full-fledged game that evening while I was a cheerleader on the sidelines.

Later, in my twenties I had a girlfriend who other than with me has always been a lesbian. Our community of friends were mostly lesbian activists and musicians. I have been that one-guy for countless situations, not because I was out for a conquest, but because I was 'safe' and a trusted friend. I was often more femme than my female partners and was included in ecstasy parties, large cuddle puddles, and smaller group sex situations where I was the only male, and there were countless occasions when I was disinvited or excluded only because I was not female.

Alex's mom is loosely based on a few lesbian moms I know with a bit of my own sprinkled in. I grew up with friends who had absurd spectrums of family realities. Alex's family structure is based on that of an old girfriend. What's that saying? 'Truth can be stranger than fiction, only fiction has to sound realistic.' I've got lots of fodder for a rainbow of stories from real life experiences.


The story covers a lot of social landmines. I am very aware of that and I sincerely hope it does not ruffle many feathers, but I suspect that is inevitible, especially with events in parts two and four, but it is the story I wanted to tell. Most of the squad girls are based on real girls I've known. I am Alex, only born to a different family and social situation. I don't regret having a wife and family, but my wife and I often imagine how different I could have turned out if I'd been raised by parents like us, it's very likely that I would have been trans.

Writing this has been a cathartic journey.


Again, thanks Doc.


More thoughts to come on 'Things The Others'....

 

[Bramblethorn]

Lol. You're right about the contortion and spot-on about the part in bold. I considered removing the whole birth certificate thing. It doesn't really have a very big impact for the overall story. I'd meant to imply that both birth certificates exist and Alex's mom uses them to her convenience. I originally put it in as a plot device but the way things turned out it was probably unnecessary except that it helps speak to Alex's mom's issues. It would probably have been better without it.

I had a look at this one, and on first impressions it felt like two different stories being told here - one a serious self-exploration (noting that you and your protagonist are both "Alex") and the other one feeling a bit more like a *deep breath* far-fetched forced-feminisation fetish fantasy piece, with stuff like the birth certificates and the woman suit.

My first thought was, yeah, pick one and stick to it. But sometimes fantasy is part of self-exploration. Sometimes we throw absurd scenarios at ourselves to see how we'd react, and while that side of things is outlandish, it also does feel relevant to what more-realistic-Alex is dealing with.

It's not my story and nobody asked me, but if I was re/writing this one, instead of killing off the FFFFFF side of the story, I'd be tempted to try keeping both those threads and marrying them in a more conscious sort of way. Make it clearer to the reader that there are two stories being told side by side, but that they reflect on one another. It's a complex approach, but it feels like this is a story where it could pay off.

Not quite the same thing, but I did something a little bit similar in my "Riddle of the Copper Coin": half of the story is about two housemates in modern-day Melbourne, and the other half is a fantasy story that one of those housemates is telling the other, as a way to explore their real-life relationship.

 

[b7ffh1]

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and give feedback. I really appreciate your comments. It is really hard to get good feedback on these stories, and I thank you for taking the time to give it.

I do have some responses and thoughts, but I would like to answer all the reviews together, if that is ok.

b7ffh1's Daniella and the Lions, Redux:

First off, I need to say that I am not the best audience for NC, so I did not benefit much from the kink, so don't take my comments as a critique of the kink.

I will say that the grammar and mechanics of the story worked well enough. You have some compelling story in the first part, but aside from a tendril of metaphor, it has nothing to do with the second part. I feel like you missed out on opportunity to tie it all together and make it a more powerful and engaging piece.

b7ffh1 quoted and agreed with SimonDoom's comment:


As a reader I did not feel that I was on the inside of this dynamic and was partly put off by the abuse.


Just brainstorming here, but Dani and her husband could have spent an evening in a blind, observing breeding lions, discussing the power exchange, inspired to talk about voyeurism and fantasies of conquest and domination. Maybe they could go back to the hotel and try to role play in a way that doesn't work for them because it's too safe. This would set up a background for the characters, one where husband and wife could have an understanding as they see the opportunity to exercise a fantasy unfold while Mr.Brooks looks on in horror as he sees a man watch, and even enjoy his wife being defiled.

The setup for Dani's character is that she is brilliant. Having her be able to 'top from the bottom' on the fly could have worked as she deeply humiliates the police chief.

The strip search could play out on a much deeper level as Dani would have the power, possibly where the police chief would become more frustrated as he is unable to derive pleasure as he destroys his carreer, further embarrassing himself as Dani refuses to let him have agency. The police chief would become more and more impotent and publicly humiliated as Dani and James exercise a taboo fantasy and become closer in the process in a way that the reader could watch unfold.

Metaphor could be tapped throughout the strip-search scene as the husband/narrator could reflect on observations he'd previously shared with Dani about the lions and how to train them to stay away from the villages.

Again, I'm not into NC and did not get much kink value, but still I would have preferred to see the story more developed.
Just my 2¢.

 

[AlexBailey]

Link

I found a few things I think worth talking about in The Tomboy and the T-Girl.

Thing the first: The lesbian who’s just never had the right dick

Thing the fourth: Hypersexuality as a result of sexual abuse being used to push a story along

This one left the most unsavory taste in my mouth.

These are reactions I anticipated. It's a large part of the reason I didn't put a 'lesbian' tag on any part of the story.

Jena never actually self-identifies as lesbian. The story is that Alex and Jena grew up together and had developed crushes on each other. Both of them are gender-fluid. I had them checking out each other's bodies while they were in the shower. "I'll share mine if you share yours..." -- a real life quote from a fluid girlfriend in my past.

----

"What do you mean, 'friends with benefits?' You and Sandy were lovers? Are you lesbians?" I ask.

"Yeah, well no... sort of? I guess we just scratched each other's itches. I'm into girls, but I'd be open to the right guy too." Jena blushes. "Well, actually I've never 'fully' been with anyone other than Sandy and other girls at experience parties, but that's different."

---


Sandy is the one who tries to insist that Jena is lesbian. She's also the hypersexualized abuse victim who is based on a real world friend.

The friend her character is based on is a self identified 'goldstar pervert' who was raised by a religious single mother who sent her to conversion therapy after finding her stash of sex toys -- her story comes out in a later chapter. She was a fetishist with a monstrous libido that was kicked out of the program her mother sent her to. She was often the main instigator of sexual conversations and activity among our friends, but she herself could not stand to be touched. She had a lot of pent up anger and would often vent. She shared her story at an ecstasy party, like in my story, after which she turned a corner and was able to be a more functional partner for her adoring girlfriend.

I embellished her story, adding stuff I've heard or read about other CT abuse.



I don't mean to throw 'but it's real!' at all of the content criticisms, but in many cases it is. My life experiences of living in a lesbian community are authentic. Most of the fetish stuff is exaggerated, though again, a lot if it is based on real life experiences, much of it, including rope bondage and cross-dressing, with friends and siblings before I was an adult.



A lot of my story is very fetishized, probably to the point of limiting the scope of who may be interested in it. It was interesting to see that the scores for parts 2/3/4 took a dip, at least two one-bombs each, after I posted a review request here. (The score for part one remained the same.) I'm guessing it was because the story was being pitched to readers and writers who did not find it based on content they are interested in.

I suspect that long stories tend to get higher scores because only people who are most interested in the content reach the end and submit a vote.


I was thinking about making a version of this story that is toned down to more of a 'slice of life' rather than such an orgy, but I think I'll just keep it as-is and move on and give my next story a more realistic feel. On the other hand, I will probably also wrote another fetish romp. It's a lot of fun! My wife, the real 'Jena' likes to pull up parts of the story to 'get in the mood.'


Again, thanks for your time, energy, and feedback. It is a long piece and I would not have expected you to hang on every word or to hear every nuance I tried to whisper. If I did not effectively communicate it is entirely on me. Your input will help me grow.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I think I owe you an apology for a knee-jerk reaction, but perhaps it helps when I explain where it comes from.

I appreciate your apology.

Though it makes for a very long reply, I’ve segmented my responses into your comment in the hope of fostering dialogue that clarifies misunderstanding.

In real life, I’m a researcher, and everything I publish has to be supported by data and/or backed up by literature; every questionable detail can later be used against me and my work. Writing a paper takes me months up to years, even though, by now, it is backed up with decennia of personal knowledge and experience.

Nice to meet you.

In my real life and profession, the wrong data, wrong word and wrong timing can flush millions of dollars down the drain in milliseconds. I don’t do much scholarly writing anymore, but in my prior academics and clerk-level positions, research was the bulk of my responsibilities— tooting my own horn, I did it well enough to be cited in a SCOTUS ruling among other feathers in the cap.

That being said, as Simon and others have commented before, I think that who we are/what we do IRL is fairly irrelevant to having meaningful contributions to discussions here.

I am not the kind of person who goes out to meet people and talk about big issues related in any kind of way to gender, sexuality, etc. Of course, I have an opinion, but it is beyond question that my sources are limited and colored. I know I don’t have any authority on most of the topics I write about on Lit, and try to acknowledge my limits.

When I feel the need for it, when I consider it important to know the facts, I do research for Lit-stories. For one of my recent stories, I read a master thesis and checked three or four research papers on the topic of female circumcision alone, and next to that, I checked numerous other sources of information on various other topics that might or might not have been relevant for that story, varying from soil-types in the district Babile to hyenas.

It sounds like we have similar writing styles.

My main writing project on Lit is a long-form serial novel (currently offline, ~ 270k words) and it has considerable focus on areas beyond my expertise, like The Hague Convention on Child Abduction, interpreting Jewish Law from the original Midrash, and diagnosing Imposter Syndrome. But even for topics I’m very comfortable with, like net-zero credit default and Shariah banking regulations, I still do additional research to make sure the context is appropriate. Sometimes, my stories even have footnotes citations in case readers want further information.

Like you, I have no authority on sex topics and issues. So, I try to be benign and inoffensive. One way of doing this is by using appropriate terminology: which I’m not a master of, but merely try to use in a correct way. On Literotica, as well as IRL2021, it’s inappropriate to assume that all men were born men and all women were born women, or that all identify as man/male or woman/female. In our discussion group here in the AMD thread, that’s not the case. Hence, for example, why I used to “cis” to distinguish the physiology of a person that is a man who was born a man, like Lou, and a woman who was born a woman, like Tsubekti. Biologically, it’s just a fact that such men simply are stronger than such women.

‘I’m Your Valentine’ was written in less than three days, only relying on my own mind. I didn’t think there was anything in that story that needed further research backup.

I consider that to be an authorial choice personally, not one that’s a “right” or “wrong” choice. Whatever what works for your writing style is best. I've done the same: in my long-form serial, my FMC is an alum of Fairfield Univ. Sometimes, readers ask if I have a connection to that school; I have none, and never did any research on it.

OTOH, my FMC deals with issues that I’ve never dealt with, such as rape litigation against the NYC foster care system, international kidnapping and sex trafficking. So I did significant research on those topics to try to accurately portray both the legal issues and the effects on the story’s victimized characters.

Here, in IYV, you’ve written about gray areas of consent and sexual assault. Tsubekti returns to visit the person and place of that assault, and yet, she doesn’t have lingering or negative feelings. Your prior comments stated that you don’t have a reason you can pinpoint for making that authorial decision. However, lots of scholarly literature on date rape is contrary to your authorial choice, and clear that victims deal with long-term trauma and difficulty confronting their attackers. I’m loathe to suggest “what I would have done” in the context of someone else’s work and ideas, but for the way that I write and considering that I know very little about this subject, this is the type of thing that I would have researched.

IYV is a story about two persons at two successive Valentine’s Days, and that’s it. I don’t want it to be extrapolated to bigger themes; I even don’t want Tsibekti and Lou to be labeled as cis-woman and cis-male, because those labels come with luggage; I don’t want the story to be exemplary for certain situations, because it isn’t. There was never any intention of spreading propaganda with this story. Silly me, to think I have a say in how my stories are perceived, once they are placed on the internet [irony focused on me and others who think they have such control; I know it’s not realistic].

It seems those labels are coming with the luggage that you packed for them

There’s no universally negative or underhanded implication from the term “cis”, and I certainly didn’t use the term in any undermining or negative way. Moreover, FWIW, if it makes you feel better: so far, I’m the only person who has used that term discussing IYV with you. So unless you’re demanding to control/change the way I think, process or analyze, then this is a moot issue.

My original comment on this was a blanket statement: paraphrased, it was ‘no woman can physically confront her male rapist unaided’ (AMD has discussed that in this thread, and also written in her own stories, both consensual and non-con, where women are stronger, but those stories are either SciFy or use drugs, chemicals, restraints and/or mind-control). It was simply a truth about the difference of men and women’s physical size and strength.

But: since the comment was a blanket statement, and is being discussed on an erotic forum where many of the writers who are engaged in the same conversation are gay, trans, genderfluid, queer, I couched it for clarity’s sake, as Bramblethorn explained in his comment above. You can accept or dismiss my opinion on Tsibekti’s physical capacity compared to Lou’s as you like. But I think it’s odd that your focus and agitation is about what you perceive as a “label” rather than the actual opinion I shared about their interaction in that scene.

You don’t want your story to be extrapolated or exemplary because it’s just about two Valentine’s Days—but I think that you should consider this may be unavoidable given your subject matter and your story construction. Your story is bisected by the two Valentine’s Days: the first one has a sexual assault and the second revisits the scenario of the first. I think it would be hard for any reader to not inadvertently compare the two unless your writing makes it much clearer that you don’t want that comparison made. Your denouement ends abruptly with Tsibekti’s (comparatively) lengthy dialogue advising Lou not to act that way in the future with other women. So it’s difficult to not read something more into that statement, as if it’s not some authorial statement or lesson. And finally, since the story centers around sexual assault and gray areas of consent, some readers may just have charged feelings about that without any other provocation.

You said that you wrote the story with a purposefully “detached” style 3rdPOV. So anywhere you have lacking details in a story, you should anticipate that your readers might want to fill in those blanks with their own assumptions—but you also have indicated that some of those “blanks” are details that you yourself haven’t fleshed out in your own mind. If you don’t have that level of direction to your narrative, then you haven’t given readers enough directive to interpret things exactly the way you intended either.

Your reply to AMD stated that the story tries to condemn what it describes. That you wanted the reader to be in the dark, slowly figuring out what was going on, slowly realizing they were about to witness a train wreck taking place while being unable to intervene. That you questioned whether Tsibekti was unrealistically portrayed in being too kind or too unaffected by what happened to her. From my POV, those musings to AMD’s feedback indicated that you thought of IYV as something more/bigger than just two dimensionless and independent Valentine’s Day encounters. Therefore, I tried to give a helpful responsive opinion to such things.

— Just anecdotal of how I feel that pressure: when you wrote in your comment, “… or a cis-woman to inflict on her cis-male rapist …” did you intentionally chose for using ‘cis-woman’ instead of ‘cis-female’, or for using ‘cis-male’ instead of ‘cis-man’? It may seem nit-picking and irrelevant, but ‘woman’ vs. ‘male’ seems an odd choice to me, and these are the kind of details I start worrying about, because I don’t know what is and what is not relevant in this ‘field’. And it could very well be that you used a language nuance that I’m not be aware of. —

And I’m scared that, when a label is added to my story, that I have to have a stance on that label and what it represents, and that would definitely stop me from writing this kind of stories. My ideas and opinions on gender and orientation are rarely backed up with facts that I’m truly familiar with. Every person that is ‘more-than-averagely’ informed on these topics can blow any of my positions in pieces, from every angle they wish for. And now I can see where it makes no sense to put my work up for review, if I can’t stand the heat…

Bramblethorn already explained the language nuances, and that it’s just a matter of using correct grammar.

I think you’re just describing a reality we all deal with as writers on Literotica. We’re all writing anonymously. Readers and fellow authors don’t know us, nor do most care to get to know us. But, nonetheless, many of us—especially those of use who reach out to AMD for feedback—are writing about things that matter to us personally: something in a character that reflects our own personality, or something based on our own personal experiences, or a kink that really defines us intimately, or just a story that we personally think is really effing amazingly good.

It’s a bummer to feel like the work, or characters, or storyline you’re invested in are being misunderstood, but you shouldn’t take it as a personal attack when the people in this thread give you critical feedback on it. And certainly not me. IRL, I barely have time to eat my lunch and dinner everyday, I’m so busy, let alone read/ think about someone else’s work. Since last July, I’ve been so busy with my business that I haven’t had time for my own writing!—but I made the time to read your story and made the time to discuss with you because I thought it had both issues and depth worth discussing, and because you expressed that you’d been surprised by how few reads and feedback you’d received.

As for labels and being mis-labeled… Shrug. I write I/T. I’m not writing thinly veiled pedo— I’m writing an intricate, thoughtful love story about broken adults who are trying to be better people. There’s not a “genre” on Lit for that, but many stories across genres have the exact same theme. Nonetheless, my writing carries a stigma that has nothing to do with the real me, and site readers and fellow writers who know nothing about me or my writing judge and mislabel me, my stories and my intentions all the time because of the category. Perhaps because I’m used to that brimfire, feedback in AMD’s thread feels like a hearth rather than a pit

I do appreciate it that you compared my story with ‘Cat Person’, and I do see it as a compliment, but I think the two stories have different intentions, and certainly different outcomes.

I hate to quote myself but this was my comment and I was specific about where I thought Cat Person and I’m Your Valentine have similarities:

I’m Your Valentine strongly reminded me of Kristen Roupenian’s infamous ‘Cat Person’, in the way you explored the fine line of consent, the disturbing compilation of things a man both assumes and ignores when he’s attracted to a woman, the frightening realities that women—of all races, countries, religions and socio-economic privilege/disenfrancishement—often face in hetero-relationships, that a man gets (takes) the final say about when and how intercourse will occur.

And that’s it. I never said that the stories are identical, have the same plot, or have the same denouement, or even the same takeaway.

When you wrote “…you also had the depth and nuance to get into the head space of the date rapist: Lou’s feelings of rejection, and disappointment at being misunderstood.” I could see how that was intended to be a compliment, but I can’t accept it as such, because those were far from the feelings I wanted to project on Lou—for me, the outcome of the story would have been significantly different if those had been his feelings.

So: this may relateback to the feedback you said you received from other commenters that the narrative would have been stronger in a different voice. Your choice for a detached, neutral 3rdPOV observer leaves all these emotional states and intentions of your characters up for grabs.

This is the end of the first Valentine’s Day:

"Are you okay? Don't you want something to drink first? You contact me, okay?"

And he kept looking down the street, long after she'd hurried away from him…

Without additional context—and, on the heels of some 1500 previous words where I, as the reader, had to fill in the blanks of what was happening in the story—I read Lou’s emotional state here as longing (otherwise, why would he still be watching her?) and disappointment at being rejected (why is she hurrying away? Why won’t she stay for a drink? When will she return?). In the terseness of this short story, you’ve have prior scenes where one or two words were intended to convey large amounts of information: at this critical juncture, I therefore read “You contact me, okay?” as Lou’s lack of understanding of what he’d done, and his expectation that Tsibekti owed him further, future contact.

In the second Valentine’s Day, Lou had this monologue:

He looked at her in a deflated way and shook his head. "I'm so sorry. I'll be honest with you—the moment you left, it all felt so wrong... But I kept telling myself that I'd asked you; that I'd checked on you. Several times. And that you never really resisted. Kept telling myself that, if anything, it was your fault; I had done nothing wrong. After that day, I'd been scared to face you again. And to be honest, even though I truly loved you—I hope you can still believe me, despite everything—I was glad I didn't get to see you again."

Between these scenes, your narrative does nothing to tighten up or clarify what Lou’s emotional state is “supposed” to be for the reader. So to me, at this point, he seemed indignant and blaming (“If anything it was your fault; I had done nothing wrong” is quite the standout in that paragraph) and perhaps that stemmed from his feelings of rejection and disappointment from the first Valentine’s Day. And with the many nuances of all Lou and Tsibekti’s prior, incomplete conversations (choppy sentences that started and stopped, incomplete thoughts left for the reader to fill-in, etc), it was not clear whether Lou was lying to himself or trying to save face, or if this was just cut and dry at face value without any subtext.

Again, as I stated in a prior comment, if you think those descriptions go too far or not far enough, you can substitute with words you prefer. But I think it may be worth revisiting your story with a paradigm shift. You stated that you purposefully wrote the story to have a detached narrative voice. If you don’t discuss the characters’ emotional states or clarify why they feel what they feel within the story, then it is unreasonable to take offense at varied reader takeaways. Particularly, in heavily emotional scenes.

Lou did not put the blame on Tsibekti, he did not put a claim on her, and if anything, it was a relief for him that she hadn’t come back earlier because he’d feared the confrontation. I did recognize those feelings you mentioned in Robert (from ‘Cat Person’). In my story I did not want Lou to label Tsibekti as a ‘Whore’; I did not want to portray Lou as a person with ‘the rapist’s indignant expectation that the victim still owes him something’. And those differences between the two stories are very substantial. That was one of the reasons for me to make the unfortunate choice of words in the reply “I wonder if you see similarities in the two stories where I see differences.” I should have asked in a lighter tone if, perhaps, you could had mixed up the two stories.

I didn’t take offense at the original question. I wouldn’t have taken offense if you asked if I’d mixed up the stories.

Your story largely focuses on lack of consent and a resulting sexual assault on the first V Day… and yet, your victimized character returns to her attacker’s home on the second V-Day to teach him to appreciate the magnitude of what he did so that he hopefully won’t do it to her friend. That’s a lot to unpack. In your comments replying to AMD’s feedback, you described Tsubekti as playing Cupid to Lou and Hadinet. I didn’t say that Lou expected something more from Tsibekti in that scene, or that he called her a whore. I never suggested that Cat Person and IYV have/should have the same plot or denouement. I said that the expectations that IYV puts on Tsibekti to play the victim, Cupid, intercessor and teacher for Lou are enormous:

In the end: Tsibekti was not only raped and left to herself to heal and move on, she also had to play intercessor for her rapist and martyr/protector of her friend. IYV puts all of the worst burdens of modern life on Tsibekti, yet she survives, thrives and continues to care for and heal others. That’s a love story worth celebrating. Thank you for sharing it.

Possibly, I am more defensive of Lou than I should be, because it was so easy for me to create his thought-patterns. There are parts of myself in Lou, and therefore, every piece of criticism on him that I consider unfair may come to me as a personal attack. That’s my own fault, but sometimes I find it hard to take that distance.

I’m aware that most readers only read a story once, so it doesn’t really make sense to argue about what they should have read; you only get one shot. In that perspective, it may not be a good thing that AMD needed a few days to process my story; probably she only took this time because she was asked to review this work. Would she normally have made it to the end, while projecting her hate for Lou on the story? Can you still say that it’s a good story, when its style puts off the readers? Did I put style before the joy of reading, does this explain the low vote-to-view ratio, and is that any good beyond artistic purposes?

Perhaps I should stop being overprotective about my work, allow it go where the readers take it, and focus my energy on the next story instead.

I agree that sounds like a good plan.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I don't mean to throw 'but it's real!' at all of the content criticisms, but in many cases it is. My life experiences of living in a lesbian community are authentic. Most of the fetish stuff is exaggerated, though again, a lot if it is based on real life experiences, much of it, including rope bondage and cross-dressing, with friends and siblings before I was an adult.

I really enjoy T-Girl! I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Bob’s Burgers; if you have, it reminded me a lot of Tina’s Erotic Friend Fiction stories.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/166/630/c20.gif
Even though T-Girl is outrageously fantastic, I thought it was like a slice-of-life-real-life-high-school-harem-but-whatever. IMHO it totally rings true for the real headspace of an 18yo/19yo girlboy. My little sister is 20yo and MTF—if you asked her to write a semi autobiographical erotic story about herself and her friends, this is pretty much exactly what you would get. Except she would probably also turn into a unicorn in the middle and there would have been rando Star Wars references, guest appearances by Megan Thee Stallion and Freddie Mercury and about 5k words about playing Cyberpunk 2077.

Again: nicely done!

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Pretty good, thanks! Took a while to work in your feedback on mine but it's much the better for the tough love. Slowly approaching the end of the last chapter.

I just read Anjali Ch. 11 and am going to read it again later. Ooooh weee. Really lovely, excellent stuff—just talking about your revisions here: you made it just absolutely seamless I’m hoping to clear time tonight to have a whiskey sour and enjoy rereading and read Ch 12!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't mean to throw 'but it's real!' at all of the content criticisms, but in many cases it is. My life experiences of living in a lesbian community are authentic. Most of the fetish stuff is exaggerated, though again, a lot if it is based on real life experiences, much of it, including rope bondage and cross-dressing, with friends and siblings before I was an adult.

I think we've all been in that situation where the part of the story the audience finds hard to swallow is the part that's drawn from our real-life experiences! I suspect that mixed-mode storytelling that we discussed above is exacerbating this.

I'll stick with the "lesbian sleeps with a guy" example - not that I think you did it in your story, I agree with your response on that, but it's a convenient hypothetical. There are two ways this could be handled in fiction.

One is to explore the complexities of something that happens IRL. Sometimes people who ID as lesbian do sleep with people who ID as male, because orientation and gender and perceived gender are complicated things, and that can be a fascinating thing to explore in fiction.

The other is The Guy Whose Dick Is So Amazing It Cures Lesbians.

Of those, the former is something I find interesting to read about and I'd be happy to see more explanation of it. The latter is just yuck. But when I encounter "guy sleeps with lesbian" in fiction, how do I know which of the two I'm dealing with?

Some stories on Literotica here are... not true, but intended to be "truthy", aiming to explore the author's understanding of how human beings really work. Others turn the sexy fun parts up to eleven and realism can go fuck itself, and then fuck its hot sister in a hot tub full of cheerleaders for seconds. This isn't quite the same as the "story" vs. "stroke" distinction, but I'd say it's about 80% aligned with that distinction.

Most stories on Lit are one or the other, and usually it doesn't take long to figure out which one. Knowing whether I'm reading "truthy" or "fantasy" is then a big help in answering the question "is the author doing this to explore the complex nuances of the human condition, or are they doing it to get the readers hard/wet?"

With yours, it's less clear-cut. There are bits where you clearly do pull the wheel towards realism, e.g. the scene where one of the girls gives Alex a "you want to be a woman? let me tell you the unpleasant truths" talk. But other bits like the birth-certificate stuff are more on the "inflated sexy fantasy" side, and as you note, some of the based-on-a-true-story parts have been exaggerated for effect.

I generally balk at telling other people what's in their heads, but AwkwardMD and I are good enough friends that I hope she'll excuse me doing it here. I get the impression that in reading your story, the "inflated sexy fantasy" aspects caught her attention, and that then led to her viewing some of the other story elements through that lens when that wasn't the way you intended them - you wrote something that you intended to be 75% truthy/25% fantasy, and it came across as more like the other way around. I think that's where some of her reaction is coming from, perhaps?

If I have read that right, then I think part of the lesson there is to be clear with what yourself about what kind of story you're writing, and make sure the audience knows that too (unless you have some reason for wanting to mess with their expectations). The easy-mode ways are to write a story that's just one or the other; the challenge-mode ways are to incorporate both, but to find a technique that lets you keep your readers in sync with your intentions.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I just read Anjali Ch. 11 and am going to read it again later. Ooooh weee. Really lovely, excellent stuff—just talking about your revisions here: you made it just absolutely seamless I’m hoping to clear time tonight to have a whiskey sour and enjoy rereading and read Ch 12!

I'm glad to hear that, given how chaotic the editing on that one was! I fixed the stuff you pointed out, but broke something else in the process, only spotted it just before posting and then had some work to do to work it back in smoothly. I ended up having to recruit a fresh beta reader to satisfy myself that it made sense to somebody who hadn't seen the older version.

 

[AlexBailey]

It's not my story and nobody asked me, but if I was re/writing this one, instead of killing off the FFFFFF side of the story, I'd be tempted to try keeping both those threads and marrying them in a more conscious sort of way. Make it clearer to the reader that there are two stories being told side by side, but that they reflect on one another. It's a complex approach, but it feels like this is a story where it could pay off.

Not quite the same thing, but I did something a little bit similar in my "Riddle of the Copper Coin": half of the story is about two housemates in modern-day Melbourne, and the other half is a fantasy story that one of those housemates is telling the other, as a way to explore their real-life relationship.

Thanks, Bramblethorn.

'Riddle of the Copper Coin' is a beautiful story; or rather, stories. It reminds me of The Princess Bride, or The Canterbury Tales. I kept getting wrapped up in the fantasy story only to be jarred out of it whenever Rafi pauses, but then the real world story pulls me back in...

What a great way to share a fantasy. It makes all kinds of room for exploration without an expectation of realism while allowing the characters to reflect on the meanings and morals.

Also, I see what you mean about mixing 'truthy' with fantasy, how it could be upsetting for some readers. It occurred to me on some level but your words really helped define it. I knew that there would be some people who would find offense, and while it is tempting to try to throw a 'TERF' blanket over it and dismiss it out of hand, I know there is more to it and my inclusion of hypersexual fantasy and fetish could make it more off-putting for some, but I guess that's just life.



It was tough when my girlfriends would head out to a women's weekend festival without me. They were my crew and my family of friends. It hurt to be excluded because of my gender. A bunch of us often went out to lesbian bars in the Castro in San Francisco. I was kicked out a few times but more often, because I was with a large group, I was begrudgingly allowed in. A butch bouncer once pulled my girlfriend aside and told her I was her reaponsibility. Later in the night the bouncer approached me, I thought I was getting kicked out, but she said, "I've been watching you. You're okay. If anyone gives you trouble, I'm Tish."

I don't hang with that crowd anymore, except when I run into some of my old friends at festivals. The prejudice sexism was hard to swallow at the time, but it helped me understand why women would want to have male-free safespaces. Lol. Poor me.

There are amazingly few places where I can feel comfortable talking about this and other similar issues that have helped form who I am -- hence my story. Some people disparage the LGB for adding T,Q,I, A to the rainbow. I appreciate the inclusion, but I also see how it's a lot to try to keep under one roof.

 

[AlexBailey]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/166/630/c20.gif
.... Except she would probably also turn into a unicorn in the middle and there would have been rando Star Wars references, guest appearances by Megan Thee Stallion and Freddie Mercury and about 5k words about playing Cyberpunk 2077.

Lol. Yep. I've got a lot of that in me.


I definitely relate to Tina here. Can't we all be an intimate family? Lol.

This story was a big cutting-loose for me --very cathartic in a very queer way. It was part of my own personal therapy. Alex from my story is a what-if fantasy version of myself. I've had some gender dysphoria issues my whole life, I never fully embraced my femme side, even for the years I lived with all of my lesbian friends. Even then I kept a lot of myself in the closet, and though I was often mistaken for a tomboy, I didn't try to pass as female. I embrace it more now than ever before and it's been a rollercoaster ride.

I've felt like I've been going through a latent puberty, like I've got a horny teenage girl inside of me who aches for love and validation and wants to explore and make risky choices. 'Alex' in the story gets to let 'her' out.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

Therefore I'd love to get your opinion on a very short non-erotic satire Body and Soul which I wrote back in 2009. It has very, very few reads. It's a bitter and angry satire about cheating. I wrote it during the breakup of my first marriage. It's basically a morality tale, told to me by me.

I've read Body & Soul now three times and each time I've taken pause at some scenes and laughed out loud at other scenes (I knew the ending after the first read, and so there was no longer a reason for me to gasp in surprise). I read it out loud to my husband, because I had no one else to read it out loud to; at first, he was NOT interested in hearing it (probably because of my very bad fake Brian Blessed accent), but by the end, was sold too.

So, I just wanted to give NoJo a bump in the discussion in case other thread-followers haven't read it yet. Body & Soul and lots of his other stories are very enjoyable.

 

[StrappingMan]

A Student's Lesson

Sorry. Never Mind. Editing first few chapters after realizing how much I learned about writing these last few months. I'll ask again later.

 

[NoJo]

I also really appreciate that you are the first writer who has ever tried to fact check me on my own credentials with regards to writing dark themes.

Definitely not the first.

 

[AwkwardMD]

What did you think?