Avenue Q

[Trinique_Fire]

Everyone's A Little Bit Racist

Princeton:
Say, Kate, can I ask you a question?

Kate Monster:
Sure!

Princeton:
Well, you know Trekkie Monster upstairs?

Kate Monster:
Uh huh.

Princeton:
Well, he's Trekkie Monster, and you're Kate Monster.

Kate Monster:
Right.

Princeton:
You're both Monsters.

Kate Monster:
Yeah.

Princeton:
Are you two related?

Kate Monster:
What?! Princeton, I'm surprised at you! I find that racist!

Princeton:
Oh, well, I'm sorry! I was just asking!

Kate Monster:
Well, it's a touchy subject.
No, not all Monsters are related.
What are you trying say, huh?
That we all look the same to you?
Huh, huh, huh?

Princeton:
No, no, no, not at all. I'm sorry,
I guess that was a little racist.

Kate Monster:
I should say so. You should be much more
careful when you're talking about the
sensitive subject of race.

Princeton:
Well, look who's talking!

Kate Monster:
What do you mean?

Princeton:
What about that special Monster School you told me about?

Kate Monster:
What about it?

Princeton:
Could someone like me go there?

Kate Monster:
No, we don't want people like you-

Princeton:
You see?!

You're a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
I guess we're both a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Admitting it is not an easy thing to do...

Princeton:
But I guess it's true.

Kate Monster:
Between me and you,
I think

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really color blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Princeton:
Now not big judgments, like who to hire
or who to buy a newspaper from -

Kate Monster:
No!

Princeton:
No, just little judgments like thinking that Mexican
busboys should learn to speak goddamn English!

Kate Monster:
Right!

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!

Princeton:
All right, stop me if you've heard this one.

Kate Monster:
Okay!

Princeton:
There's a plan going down and there's only
one paracute. And there's a rabbi, a priest...

Kate Monster:
And a black guy!

Gary Coleman:
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Kate?

Kate Monster:
Uh...

Gary Coleman:
You were telling a black joke!

Princeton:
Well, sure, Gary, but lots of people tell black jokes.

Gary Coleman:
I don't.

Princeton:
Well, of course you don't - you're black!
But I bet you tell Polack jokes, right?

Gary Coleman:
Well, sure I do. Those stupid Polacks!

Princeton:
Now, don't you think that's a little racist?

Gary Coleman:
Well, damn, I guess you're right.

Kate Monster:
You're a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
We're all a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
I think that I would
Have to agree with you.

Princeton/Kate Monster:
We're glad you do.

Gary Coleman:
It's sad but true!
Everyone's a little bit racist -

All right!

Kate Monster:
All right!

Princeton:
All right!

Gary Coleman:
All right!
Bigotry has never been
Exclusively white

All:
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it's wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along.

Princeton:
Oh, Christ do I feel good.

Gary Coleman:
Now there was a fine upstanding black man!

Princeton:
Who?

Gary Coleman:
Jesus Christ.

Kate Monster:
But, Gary, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, Jesus was black.

Kate Monster:
No, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was black-

Princeton:
Guys, guys...Jesus was Jewish!

Brian:
Hey guys, what are you laughing about?

Gary Coleman:
Racism!

Brian:
Cool.

Christmas Eve:
BRIAN! Come back here!
You take out lecycuraburs!

Princeton:
What's that mean?

Brian:
Um, recyclables.
Hey, don't laugh at her!
How many languages do you speak?

Kate Monster:
Oh, come off it, Brian!
Everyone's a little bit racist.

Brian:
I'm not!

Princeton:
Oh no?

Brian:
Nope!

How many Oriental wives
Have you got?

Christmas Eve:
What? Brian!

Princeton:
Brian, buddy, where you been?
The term is Asian-American!

Christmas Eve:
I know you are no
Intending to be
But calling me Oriental -
Offensive to me!

Brian:
I'm sorry, honey, I love you.

Christmas Eve:
And I love you.

Brian:
But you're racist, too.

Christmas Eve:
Yes, I know.
The Jews have all
The money
And the whites have all
The power.
And I'm always in taxi-cab
With driver who no shower!

Princeton:
Me too!

Kate Monster:
Me too!

Gary Coleman:
I can't even get a taxi!

All:
Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!

Christmas Eve:
Evlyone's a ritter bit lacist!

 

[mjl2010]

Are we?

Some of us do try so hard. I was brought up "color blind" so to speak. I honestly don't care if you're red, white, green with orange dots or black. If you base your life on honor, you'll be just fine with me.

Tell a joke that includes race and I'll ask you, "What does being green have to do with it?"

What does bother me is here in America, and I don't know if it happens in other countries is the whole xxxx-american thing.

Here you have a group who claims they want the same rights and access as everyone else, then they distinguish themselves by hyphenating their loyalty to their country.

Some people speak with an entirely different accent, identifying their race as they do so on the phone. It's rare in this country that a person of african heritage can call someone else and not have that person know their heritage from the first hello. Why? If you want the same treatment as all other Americans, then talk like them.

I'm not talking about the family that comes here from another country to live and learn our language. I'm talking about people who have lived here all their lives, their parents have lived here and so forth.

A few years ago a few teenagers decided to play a joke on a couple. They made a wooden cross and set it on fire on the couples front lawn. Perhaps it was hate, perhaps not. I don't remember the outcome of it all. The papers made a huge deal of the fact that the couple was a black woman and and white man. The word interracial was used so many times, even when it wasn't necessary I finally wrote the editor and complained. (got my letter published too!)

This wasn't the kkk or something, this was thirteen and fourteen year olds who had seen a movie and a scene that included a kkk meeting.

I hate the word tolerant or tolerate when it comes to race. We shouldn't be tolerating anyone. We should be accepting them. The difference between two races, on the genetic level, is so small it's barely measureable.

I've worked with and hired people from many races. There's no telling by skin color or facial features what kind of worker someone will be. Anyone can be lazy or hard working. Smart or moronic. It doesn't matter.

Get over it people.

<steps off soapbox>

MJL

 

[R. Richard]

Just to muddy the water a little here.

Jesus was born in the middle East, apparently of parents who were long time residents of the area. [Joseph and Mary had to return to Bethlehem from another middle eastern town, because the Romans had people return to the area of their birth to pay taxes.] Thus, Joseph and Mary were almost certain brown, not white. Thus Jesus was almost certainly brown, not white. [Note: The natives of the middle east are Caucasion. They are of the "white" race, but they are brown because of the desert climate of the middle east.]

 

[Vermilion]

I like Terry Pratchett's take on it in his Discworld books. He says something along the lines of their beings so many different species all co-existing in Ankh-Morpork (eg- trolls, humans, dwarves, undead etc) that a mere difference in colour meant diddly-squat... or words to that effect.

What pisses me off is not different races, but people of different races (or even nationalities) who do not respect the country which they are visiting or choosing to live in.

If you're there for a short while then try to speak a bit of the language and conform to cultural norms, if you're there for a long while then damn well learn the language, try hard to make yourself understood, try to join in with the people of your new country and don't form some little ex-pat clique. It's rude and ridiculous - why leave your original country if all you're going to do is recreate it somewhere else?

(And mostly I'm thinking about english/americans abroad here, tbh, though the majority of the chinese students at my university need to hear some things I have to say. They also need some lessons in road safety- those guys are *so* unaware of cars)

x
V

 

[Stella_Omega]

I like Terry Pratchett's take on it in his Discworld books. He says something along the lines of their beings so many different species all co-existing in Ankh-Morpork (eg- trolls, humans, dwarves, undead etc) that a mere difference in colour meant diddly-squat... or words to that effect.

What pisses me off is not different races, but people of different races (or even nationalities) who do not respect the country which they are visiting or choosing to live in.

If you're there for a short while then try to speak a bit of the language and conform to cultural norms, if you're there for a long while then damn well learn the language, try hard to make yourself understood, try to join in with the people of your new country and don't form some little ex-pat clique. It's rude and ridiculous - why leave your original country if all you're going to do is recreate it somewhere else?

(And mostly I'm thinking about english/americans abroad here, tbh, though the majority of the chinese students at my university need to hear some things I have to say. They also need some lessons in road safety- those guys are *so* unaware of cars)

x
V

Terry Pratchett said that the white, the black, the yellow and the brown were united by their hatred of the green, the short, and the lichen-covered. There's something rather profound in that...

 

[Boxlicker101]

I have often wondered about "Oriental" and when it became a racial slur. When I was a youth, that part of the world that includes China and Japan was ofter referred to as "The Orient" or "The Far East". There was even an airline named Northwest Orient Airlines. People from the Orient were sometimes referred to collectively as "Orientals", meaning of or from the Orient. Western Europe and the United States were sometimes referred to collectively as "The West" or "The Occident" and people from there were sometimes referred to as "Westerners", and sometimes, but not often, as "Occidentals". There was nothing the least bit racist about this, anymore than it would have been racist to refer to something or someone from Italy as "Italian" or something or someone from China as "Chinese".

"Asian" is much less descriptive, since it can just as well refer to somebody or something from Turkey or Israel or Pakistan as from Japan. People still refer to "The West" or "Westerners".

By the way, I think you can still buy oriental rugs, and they are quite expensive.

 

[Vermilion]

I have often wondered about "Oriental" and when it became a racial slur. When I was a youth, that part of the world that includes China and Japan was ofter referred to as "The Orient" or "The Far East". There was even an airline named Northwest Orient Airlines. People from the Orient were sometimes referred to collectively as "Orientals", meaning of or from the Orient. Western Europe and the United States were sometimes referred to collectively as "The West" or "The Occident" and people from there were sometimes referred to as "Westerners", and sometimes, but not often, as "Occidentals". There was nothing the least bit racist about this, anymore than it would have been racist to refer to something or someone from Italy as "Italian" or something or someone from China as "Chinese".

"Asian" is much less descriptive, since it can just as well refer to somebody or something from Turkey or Israel or Pakistan as from Japan. People still refer to "The West" or "Westerners".

By the way, I think you can still buy oriental rugs, and they are quite expensive.

Is this an American thing? Because to say someone looks Oriental or whatever is still a purely descriptive word as far as I know, but I'm in the UK. It always confuses me when you (americans) call someone oriental 'asian' as, for the most part, it is people hailing from India, Pakistan etc that are described as 'Asian' over here, whilst Oriental still covers China, Japan and other countries that share at least the distinctive physical characteristics, like slightness of build, dark straight hair and almond shaped eyes.

It is even seen as something of a compliment if you say someone has an Oriental look - there's still something exotic linked to it from long ago times when the Impressionists regarded the Orient as the source of all artistic inspiration (I am simplifying a little here).

x
V

 

[TheEarl]

Is this an American thing? Because to say someone looks Oriental or whatever is still a purely descriptive word as far as I know, but I'm in the UK. It always confuses me when you (americans) call someone oriental 'asian' as, for the most part, it is people hailing from India, Pakistan etc that are described as 'Asian' over here, whilst Oriental still covers China, Japan and other countries that share at least the distinctive physical characteristics, like slightness of build, dark straight hair and almond shaped eyes.

It is even seen as something of a compliment if you say someone has an Oriental look - there's still something exotic linked to it from long ago times when the Impressionists regarded the Orient as the source of all artistic inspiration (I am simplifying a little here).

x
V

Vermilion beat me to it actually on the difference between an American Asian and a British Asian. If you say someone's of Asian appearance here, then there'd be general surprise if you were actually talking about a Chinese person.

Why is 'Oriental' racist in USA anyway? If someone comes from the Orient, then they're Oriental. I wouldn't like being called European because of my politics, but I wouldn't regard it as a racist slur.

The Earl

 

[Vermilion]

Vermilion beat me to it actually on the difference between an American Asian and a British Asian. If you say someone's of Asian appearance here, then there'd be general surprise if you were actually talking about a Chinese person.

Why is 'Oriental' racist in USA anyway? If someone comes from the Orient, then they're Oriental. I wouldn't like being called European because of my politics, but I wouldn't regard it as a racist slur.

The Earl

divided once again by that language which we don't have in common
x
V

 

[TheEarl]

Bump to see if anyone can identify why 'Oriental' is racist.

The Earl

 

[Trinique_Fire]

A lot of Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc. people don't like being referred to as Oriental. Some see it as racist or just impolite. I'm not, so I don't know.

I just love the music in this show. There's a lot of reality to it. Oh, and I get a helluva fucking big laugh out of it.

 

[mjl2010]

Bump to see if anyone can identify why 'Oriental' is racist.

The Earl

I don't see it as racist and didn't know it was. Generally I don't identify people by origin though (see post above).

I always thought oriental meant of Chinese ancestry and asian meant from the other countries in that area. Not that it matters. Women are beautiful no matter where they come.

But here's my take on your question. Certain groups of people are trying to shed a certain stigma attached to a name for their ethic origin. Example: People of African decent were at one time blacks, negro's, colored and each of these had bad connotations associated with them. As the country grew up, these were dropped in favor of a new term.

I found it interesting once when a woman who worked for me identified herself as African-American. Her parents were native Australian's of all things. How does that make her of African Heritage?

MJL

 

[S-Des]

Bump to see if anyone can identify why 'Oriental' is racist.

The Earl

It is because people think it is. Just like how the nature of the term describing black people has evolved (so a term that was acceptable when you were growing up, suddenly becomes offensive). People are called African Americans, even if they have been in America (or other countries) for centuries. It doesn't seem to make sense, although I try to accommodate them. Why risk hurting someone's feelings over a word?

I had a friend who was Korean. I called her Oriental once and she snapped that, "Oriental is a rug." I certainly meant no offense and judging from this thread, it's acceptable in other countries to call someone that. However, because it bothered her, I made a point to never make the reference again. It's a little confusing (and often annoying). You have to remember so many PC terms, and they change from time to time. My ancestors were Irish (and not that long ago), but I would never call myself Irish-American. I was born here, so I'm just American.

Vermillion, I love your point about language and culture. When a white person here makes that point, we're almost universally called intolerant (if not flatly called a racist). I live in an area that is very heavy with immigrants from Mexico (many of them here illegally). Although I speak English and French (I am alot closer to Canada than Mexico), I constantly hear about "ugly Americans" who refuse to learn Spanish to accommodate the people coming here to live (when it seems awfully evident that it should be the other way around). That always begs the question of what about the other groups who come here. If we accommodate one without the others, aren't we discriminating against them too?

Then again, maybe Princeton and Kate Monster are right.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Actually, African American isn't always a totally acceptable term anymore. Depends on who you're talking to. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[mjl2010]

Actually, African American isn't always a totally acceptable term anymore. Depends on who you're talking to. Just thought I'd let you know.

It's never been acceptable to me. If you want to be an American, then be an American, learn the language if you have to and fit in. No disrespect to anyone of course. I hate the whole hyphenated dual country thing. Are you American or not? If you want to be from somewhere else then go there.

MJL

 

[Trinique_Fire]

It's never been acceptable to me. If you want to be an American, then be an American, learn the language if you have to and fit in. No disrespect to anyone of course. I hate the whole hyphenated dual country thing. Are you American or not? If you want to be from somewhere else then go there.

MJL

Whoa. Settle down there tiger. I could feel the hostility oozing through the screen.

 

[mjl2010]

Whoa. Settle down there tiger. I could feel the hostility oozing through the screen.

My failing is coming off too strong on things I feel strongly about. No hostility meant and if I came off that way I'm sorry. I do tend to be blunt and speak my mind.

MJL

 

[Trinique_Fire]

My failing is coming off too strong on things I feel strongly about. No hostility meant and if I came off that way I'm sorry. I do tend to be blunt and speak my mind.

MJL

Yeah, well so do I, just watch that you pick your battles accordingly sugarhoneyicetea.....don't get voted off the island over something like this.

 

[mjl2010]

Yeah, well so do I, just watch that you pick your battles accordingly sugarhoneyicetea.....don't get voted off the island over something like this.

You come off too strong or you're blunt and speak your mind?

MJL

 

[Trinique_Fire]

You come off too strong or you're blunt and speak your mind?

MJL

A little of both. Point is...pick and choose your battles on this board. I've gotten to the point where I have half the board on ignore or just watch what I say when certain topics come up.

 

[Xelebes]

I like Terry Pratchett's take on it in his Discworld books. He says something along the lines of their beings so many different species all co-existing in Ankh-Morpork (eg- trolls, humans, dwarves, undead etc) that a mere difference in colour meant diddly-squat... or words to that effect.

What pisses me off is not different races, but people of different races (or even nationalities) who do not respect the country which they are visiting or choosing to live in.

If you're there for a short while then try to speak a bit of the language and conform to cultural norms, if you're there for a long while then damn well learn the language, try hard to make yourself understood, try to join in with the people of your new country and don't form some little ex-pat clique. It's rude and ridiculous - why leave your original country if all you're going to do is recreate it somewhere else?

(And mostly I'm thinking about english/americans abroad here, tbh, though the majority of the chinese students at my university need to hear some things I have to say. They also need some lessons in road safety- those guys are *so* unaware of cars)

x
V

Because that is what is encouraged in Canada. Although we're trying to curb Shariah Law from happening.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

If You Were Gay

ROD
Aah, an afternoon alone with
My favorite book, "Broadway
Musicals of the 1940s."
No roommate to bother me.
How could it get any better than this?

NICKY
Oh,hi Rod!

ROD
Hi Nicky.

NICKY
Hey Rod, you'll never
Guess what happened to
Me on the subway this morning.
This guy was smiling at me and talking to me

ROD
That's very interesting.

NICKY
He was being real friendly,
And I think he was coming on to me.
I think he might've thought I was gay!

ROD
Ahem, so, uh, why are you telling me this?
Why should I care?
I don't care.
What did you have for lunch today?

NICKY
Oh, you don't have to get
All defensive about it, Rod...

ROD
I'm NOT getting defensive!
What do I care about some gay guy you met, okay?
I'm trying to read.

NICKY
Oh, I didn't mean anything by it, Rod.
I just think it's something we should be able to talk about.

ROD
I don't want to talk about it,
Nicky! This conversation is over!!!

NICKY
Yeah, but...

ROD
OVER!!!

NICKY
Well, okay, but just so you know —
IF YOU WERE GAY
THAT'D BE OKAY.
I MEAN 'CAUSE, HEY,
I'D LIKE YOU ANYWAY.
BECAUSE YOU SEE,
IF IT WERE ME,
I WOULD FEEL FREE
TO SAY THAT I WAS GAY
(BUT I'M NOT GAY.)

ROD
Nicky, please!
I am trying to read....
What?!

NICKY
IF YOU WERE QUEER

ROD
Ah, Nicky!

NICKY
I'D STILL BE HERE,

ROD
Nicky, I'm trying to read this book.

NICKY
YEAR AFTER YEAR

ROD
Nicky!

NICKY
BECAUSE YOU'RE DEAR
TO ME,

ROD
Argh!

NICKY
AND I KNOW THAT YOU

ROD
What?

NICKY
WOULD ACCEPT ME TOO,

ROD
I would?

NICKY
IF I TOLD YOU TODAY,
"HEY! GUESS WHAT,
I'M GAY!"
(BUT I'M NOT GAY.)
I'M HAPPY
JUST BEING WITH YOU.

ROD
High Button Shoes, Pal Joey...

NICKY
SO WHAT SHOULD IT
MATTER TO ME
WHAT YOU DO IN BED
WITH GUYS?

ROD
Nicky, that's GROSS!

NICKY
No it's not!
IF YOU WERE GAY
I'D SHOUT HOORAY!

ROD
I am not listening!

NICKY
AND HERE I'D STAY,

ROD
La la la la la!

NICKY
BUT I WOULDN'T GET
IN YOUR WAY.

ROD
Aaaah!

NICKY
YOU CAN COUNT ON ME
TO ALWAYS BE
BESIDE YOU EVERY DAY,
TO TELL YOU IT'S OKAY,
YOU WERE JUST BORN
THAT WAY,
AND, AS THEY SAY,
IT'S IN YOUR DNA,
YOU'RE GAY!

ROD
BUT I'M NOT GAY!

NICKY
If you were gay.

ROD
Argh!

 

[Liar]

A lot of Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc. people don't like being referred to as Oriental. Some see it as racist or just impolite. I'm not, so I don't know.

Prolly because it bunches up a whole lot of very diffeent people as if they were all one and the same.

I get kind of every time I see people talk about how 'Europeans' are.

 

[mjl2010]

Um ok???

 

[Boxlicker101]

Prolly because it bunches up a whole lot of very diffeent people as if they were all one and the same.

I get kind of every time I see people talk about how 'Europeans' are.

Personally, I don't like being called a "European". Some of my ancestors came here thousands or years ago across the Bering Straits when it was land. Others came from Europe more recently, but I have never been to Europe. It's just a mile irritation, though, not enough to cause a reaction.