Assumed Mysogyny and BDSM.

[LWulf]

I got "straw man" "straw misogyny" right off the bat. Just because you missed something doesn't mean the speaker is being obtuse.

That's funny. You usually miss my point, and usually argue my point against me all the time, and talk to me like I'm obtuse. (Actually you talk to everybody like they are obtuse, but that's besides the point) meanwhile others understand what I say without clarification.

What does that say?

 

[Netzach]

Well to be fair, I'm not in that relationship nor am I yelling at people at work anymore. My experiences were after that, and I still wound up thinking about stuff in that context, it is possible (maybe even probable) that with more experience that might have sorted itself.

There's no shame in erring on the cautious side in this one, really. And the "she's not made of glass" thing is no end of trouble for me when it comes to sub girls, much as I like them, too. We are predisposed to sorting, and we have our own hangups, and not every D and every s are going to work well together.

Now, as a fairly experienced D, I have to ask you (and you don't need to answer this in print, but for yourself) - does doing this kind of thing turn you on, or is it something you would be doing purely out of interest in satisfying the interests of a potential partner into roleplay misogyny? Because if your Dominance is the larger part of your kink, if you don't balance that and you do take that on, you're going to burn out on it - you're going to find yourself a method actor lost in role. If it gives YOU a boner independent of context, then that's another thing. (Neither is wrong, just, you know, I think we sometimes are encouraged to lose touch with what we actually want as Dominants.)

 

[Netzach]

That's funny. You usually miss my point, and usually argue my point against me all the time, and talk to me like I'm obtuse. (Actually you talk to everybody like they are obtuse, but that's besides the point) meanwhile others understand what I say without clarification.

What does that say?

Yawn.

You started on this thread accusing the OP of having a sock and saying "since there's a safeword in BDSM there can be no misogyny."

There can be no abuse either then. In fact because we have safeword, puppies. Rainbows. You have an ignore function, use it.

 

[LWulf]

You have an ignore function, use it.

At first it was bothersome seeing you post but that's because I think the better of people initially. Now I just get the popcorn and think "oh, here comes lunacy!"

To clarify, no I didn't accuse the OP of having a sock, I accused the OP of having a fake kitty or whatever the inverse colloquialism is for that. There you go, misinterpreting as usual.

Tell you what, YOU get your reactionary knickers in a twist more from what I say, so why don't YOU use the ignore.

 

[homewa]

There's no shame in erring on the cautious side in this one, really. And the "she's not made of glass" thing is no end of trouble for me when it comes to sub girls, much as I like them, too. We are predisposed to sorting, and we have our own hangups, and not every D and every s are going to work well together.

I imagine this was more of the issue in the previous relationship than anything else.

Now, as a fairly experienced D, I have to ask you (and you don't need to answer this in print, but for yourself) - does doing this kind of thing turn you on, or is it something you would be doing purely out of interest in satisfying the interests of a potential partner into roleplay misogyny? Because if your Dominance is the larger part of your kink, if you don't balance that and you do take that on, you're going to burn out on it - you're going to find yourself a method actor lost in role. If it gives YOU a boner independent of context, then that's another thing. (Neither is wrong, just, you know, I think we sometimes are encouraged to lose touch with what we actually want as Dominants.)

The misogyny thing was entirely a hypothetical on my part, I just thought it was interesting. Then my own stuff wound up bleeding in. The misogyny stuff wouldn't arouse me particularly, unless it was something that my partner was very into. The thing that I had trouble with separating was the person who I wound up picturing myself as, and who worked himself back into the fantasies I was having the last time I tried that sort of relationship, was the Corporal of Marines. Which I don't know if that would have been a problem for everybody, but the lady I was with was into submission in a sort of shutting off her brain way and basically letting herself go. (I'm probably explaining this badly so I apologize, and it's mildly off-topic), but that doesn't work with the kind of military way of keeping authority, which involves breaking the person down, making sure that they're paying attention, even to small details, belittling them for even minor mistakes, demanding perfect, instant obedience to orders, embarrassing disciplinary measures, that kind of thing, it's hard to explain, and it probably sounds fairly terrible, but that person is who came out when I was fantasizing, and my previous relationship that was clearly not the person the lady needed, and it might be the right person for any person, honestly I don't know.

Anyways that's my story, which I guess may be more related than I had previously thought. And I'm not sure if with practice I could have altered what it was that I was when I was wanting to take charge or not, or even that if that's something I should have attempted.

 

[PS_Alexandria]

Assumed misogyny in BDSM is a turn-on for me. I want to be conquered as a woman, by a man. I want humiliation about my feminine qualities, or to worship a male partner's masculine qualities. I like fantasies that take place in patriarchal societies. I like cock worship and muscle worship and being told I can't be dominant over a man, because I am a woman.

That said, I think a lot of the "natural order" people take it way too seriously. I personally don't care if male dominance is the natural order. I can only speak to how I like things, and I don't care if how I like things is natural or not. Am I saying that how I like things is not the natural order? No. I don't know if it's the natural order or not, and I don't care. I only care that it makes me happy. If something totally different makes other people happy, then more power to them.

 

[Netzach]

I imagine this was more of the issue in the previous relationship than anything else.



The misogyny thing was entirely a hypothetical on my part, I just thought it was interesting. Then my own stuff wound up bleeding in. The misogyny stuff wouldn't arouse me particularly, unless it was something that my partner was very into. The thing that I had trouble with separating was the person who I wound up picturing myself as, and who worked himself back into the fantasies I was having the last time I tried that sort of relationship, was the Corporal of Marines. Which I don't know if that would have been a problem for everybody, but the lady I was with was into submission in a sort of shutting off her brain way and basically letting herself go. (I'm probably explaining this badly so I apologize, and it's mildly off-topic), but that doesn't work with the kind of military way of keeping authority, which involves breaking the person down, making sure that they're paying attention, even to small details, belittling them for even minor mistakes, demanding perfect, instant obedience to orders, embarrassing disciplinary measures, that kind of thing, it's hard to explain, and it probably sounds fairly terrible, but that person is who came out when I was fantasizing, and my previous relationship that was clearly not the person the lady needed, and it might be the right person for any person, honestly I don't know.

Anyways that's my story, which I guess may be more related than I had previously thought. And I'm not sure if with practice I could have altered what it was that I was when I was wanting to take charge or not, or even that if that's something I should have attempted.

You do you, or you'll go crazy. There's an ass for every seat, as someone I knew used to put it.

And it seems like your internal template for authority is very much shaped by your experiences this way. A lot of submissives are looking for a kind of escape, and M/f interaction kind of skews this way in BDSM, it's true.

But I've also been around very regimented and structured D/s relationships, some of them M/f, that function that way. I've met femsubs who do thrive on a kind of never-right ever-striving painted-into-corner discipline. There's nothing terrible about mutually deciding that a relationship is no longer structured around consensus, but authority, (versus just drifting into authority patterns like most vanilla couples will anyway.)

 

[UtopiaBound]

Now, as a fairly experienced D, I have to ask you (and you don't need to answer this in print, but for yourself) - does doing this kind of thing turn you on, or is it something you would be doing purely out of interest in satisfying the interests of a potential partner into roleplay misogyny? Because if your Dominance is the larger part of your kink, if you don't balance that and you do take that on, you're going to burn out on it - you're going to find yourself a method actor lost in role. If it gives YOU a boner independent of context, then that's another thing. (Neither is wrong, just, you know, I think we sometimes are encouraged to lose touch with what we actually want as Dominants.)

I found this interesting... I would think it easier for the D to stay engaged and interested as s/he is in control of the sub. But I do see if it's a role played by the D to excite the s but not truly driven by D's desires how it could happen. Personally it loses something for me if I'm giving D much input because it feels like I'm taking back control.

I guess that fall into what bdsm is for the individual. Is it a pretty much natural state that exists to some extent 24/7? Or is it role play for increased pleasure and excitement? I don't think either is better, truer or more authentic than the other. But it probably changes the participants view on a lot of things posted here.

 

[Netzach]

I found this interesting... I would think it easier for the D to stay engaged and interested as s/he is in control of the sub. But I do see if it's a role played by the D to excite the s but not truly driven by D's desires how it could happen. Personally it loses something for me if I'm giving D much input because it feels like I'm taking back control.

I guess that fall into what bdsm is for the individual. Is it a pretty much natural state that exists to some extent 24/7? Or is it role play for increased pleasure and excitement? I don't think either is better, truer or more authentic than the other. But it probably changes the participants view on a lot of things posted here.

I don't disagree.

Where I'm coming from is this - I find that, so much of the way we educate ourselves focuses on the sub's safety and agency, that the Dominant is reduced to a kind of "safe or unsafe" cipher. There are very few discussions or workshops on the emotional life of Dominant people, and so much is reduced to "here is how to make this experience happen safely for your partner." I think a lot of Dominant parties are slightly out of touch with what they want, what they desire, outside the context of "what s needs/is into..." I've seen M/s relationships where the entire relationship is 100 percent tailored around the slave's very elaborate and all-consuming kink, and the M is a kind of somewhat happy but rather exhausted appendage to that kink.

I used to think this was purely a problem for FemDoms because, you know, women will provide, right? But I see it happen among M/f people just as much, in a subtle way.

 

[UtopiaBound]

I don't disagree.

Where I'm coming from is this - I find that, so much of the way we educate ourselves focuses on the sub's safety and agency, that the Dominant is reduced to a kind of "safe or unsafe" cipher. There are very few discussions or workshops on the emotional life of Dominant people, and so much is reduced to "here is how to make this experience happen safely for your partner." I think a lot of Dominant parties are slightly out of touch with what they want, what they desire, outside the context of "what s needs/is into..."

I used to think this was purely a problem for FemDoms because, you know, women will provide, right? But I see it happen among M/f people just as much, in a subtle way.

I'm fairly ignorant regarding workshops and such. And I know I'm not a norm if there is even one. No safewords. No real limits. No looking to be a sub to anyone other than my husband. But I am so interested in hearing and learning from others. I'm glad D found this forum.

 

[Netzach]

I'm fairly ignorant regarding workshops and such. And I know I'm not a norm if there is even one. No safewords. No real limits. No looking to be a sub to anyone other than my husband. But I am so interested in hearing and learning from others. I'm glad D found this forum.

Never think you're not the norm. You're probably the norm! If not who cares, to an extent. The percentage of people who will ever go to a workshop is a fraction of the percentage of people who just organically do this thing. I kind of exist in both camps. It doesn't really matter. But when it comes to discourse, is what I mean. The moment you start looking for others who *are* in the various subcultures and have found one another, the mainstream of "here's how it works" is a very sub-desire-focused thing.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[UtopiaBound]

I'm not sure where we'll end up.I know what it was 20ish years ago. I know what it's been like as tendencies have slowly been repressed as a reaction to socially imposed restrictions. But I don't know where it'll lead now that those limits are being taken off. I'm sure it'll be one hell of an exciting ride though!

 

[homewa]

You do you, or you'll go crazy. There's an ass for every seat, as someone I knew used to put it.

And it seems like your internal template for authority is very much shaped by your experiences this way. A lot of submissives are looking for a kind of escape, and M/f interaction kind of skews this way in BDSM, it's true.

But I've also been around very regimented and structured D/s relationships, some of them M/f, that function that way. I've met femsubs who do thrive on a kind of never-right ever-striving painted-into-corner discipline. There's nothing terrible about mutually deciding that a relationship is no longer structured around consensus, but authority, (versus just drifting into authority patterns like most vanilla couples will anyway.)

Well I definitely appreciate the ass for every seat bit, and it is good to know that there are people who are into similar things as I've felt would be best. So thank you! I could definitely see how it might be easy for a dominant person to wind up taking up the slack, or I think I can. Because it's a position of authority and worse granted authority by the person over whom the authority exists (whether it's a big thing and is all the time, or is very brief) and that leads in turn to a responsibility, which is why I would have tried to change to suit my partner rather than expect the reverse, because I saw myself as the one with that responsibility in the end.

Of course, I'm sure that there are just as many responsibilities on the part of the submissive partner, this is me, trying to describe what I feel.

Assumed misogyny in BDSM is a turn-on for me. I want to be conquered as a woman, by a man. I want humiliation about my feminine qualities, or to worship a male partner's masculine qualities. I like fantasies that take place in patriarchal societies. I like cock worship and muscle worship and being told I can't be dominant over a man, because I am a woman.

That said, I think a lot of the "natural order" people take it way too seriously. I personally don't care if male dominance is the natural order. I can only speak to how I like things, and I don't care if how I like things is natural or not. Am I saying that how I like things is not the natural order? No. I don't know if it's the natural order or not, and I don't care. I only care that it makes me happy. If something totally different makes other people happy, then more power to them.

Well it's definitely interesting to see that sort of thing, how have your partners responded to this? You naturally don't have to answer if it's at all uncomfortable, but it would be interesting to hear how people who would not normally believe something acted when they assumed those beliefs.

 

[Bound2One]

I'm not sure where we'll end up.I know what it was 20ish years ago. I know what it's been like as tendencies have slowly been repressed as a reaction to socially imposed restrictions. But I don't know where it'll lead now that those limits are being taken off. I'm sure it'll be one hell of an exciting ride though!

"I have such wonderful things to show you"...