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[haurni]

The meaning of words changes over time. An elderly person who uses the N-word simply because they've always used it and it was perfectly fine when they were young needs to be told that it's now considered inappropriate and offensive. I think that enough people are acknowledging that the word has too many negative connotations that even those 'under the trans umbrella' who disagree about its appropriateness may need to start rethinking their use of it.

 

[jupija]

More than just gender or sex

I'll have to review Blanchard's original articles to be sure, but I recall one of the criticisms being that his subgroups are not in fact well-differentiated, and it may very well simply be a matter of a diversity of individuals that differ significantly only at either extreme. As to the reasons for that diversity, I don't know enough to even begin to speculate. I found the idea of autogynephilia interesting because I felt it described my own situation fairly well - whether it is a 'real' thing rather than simply a collection of characteristics that just happen to apply to some semi-random collection of transgender people (like being right handed) is something of which I'm not convinced.

I made the comment above that, in my case, I have felt, not that I was the 'wrong' sex, but that I would have chosen differently had I had any input in the decision. I realized this long before I became seriously aware of anything resembling trans issues, back when 'sex change' was something boys giggled about in the schoolyard without really understanding anything about it.

I'm quite aware of my male (and white) privilege, and the fact that I present as rather masculine and (presumably) straight. I know that I probably would not have the guts to transition and I cannot help but stand in awe of those who do, while at the same time understanding that they do so almost because they cannot do anything but, so great is their dysphoria. It's for this reason that I am so impressed by people like yourself who do make the transition - in part because of your will to forge ahead with it, but also because you are doing something that I (think I) would also like to do but never will. I've commented to you before that I'm unsure how much my interest in trans people and trans issues is a result of the two reasons I've mentioned above or some form of fetishism, and trying to disentangle these threads is causing me some confusion (though nowhere near the distress anyone who actually goes ahead with transitioning must feel).

---

I assume from your comments that you have had sex with men. Really, it's not all that different with women except that women tend to be a bit softer and more rounded and generally nicer, in my opinion (in general I happen to think that many men are idiots ). If you choose not to be in a relationship with anyone - male or female - because you don't need the distraction from your studies and you have other concerns in your life right now, there's nothing wrong with that. If you're just wondering about women specifically (perhaps because of your issues with men?) then I stand by my previous comment - if you want to and your partner is aware that you have a penis at the moment and isn't going to freak out about it, why not? Whether or not you choose to make use of that part of you is a separate issue and a matter of personal choice. It's not a question of whether or not you 'should', but whether or not you want to.

I appreciate the frank discussions. But aside from the fascination with emotional exploration, I would like to suggest that other qualities (or quantities) include intelligence, kindness, compassion, benevolence, wit. These are separate from gender and sexuality. If I were to have the honor of meeting any of you, I would prefer an unassuming, non-dramatic, frank conversation laced with kindness and understanding. And thank goodness you are all so smart!

 

[dutchrain]

Wow, Sticky, a marvelous thread with awesome people contributing to it.

Although I skipped most of the links I still needed hours to read the posts, and I have to digest quite a lot.

A few things came to my mind though:

Coming out: a lesbian friend tells this story about hers: Around sixteen she was sure she was a lesbian and started to accept herself as herself. She then decided to wait for the right moment to tell her parents. "But that moment just never showed up, and so, when I was almost twenty and we were having dinner I, in the middle of discussing some study things, blurted out: "I am a lesbian."

My own daughter did almost the same: On a beautiful spring day she hovered around me for a some time, in a mode which had prepared me to answer negatively to a request for a raise of her allowance, when: "Mom, I have a girlfriend." My very first thought: Huh? So what? You have many friends! So why, Oh! You have a girlfriend! My second thought: Oh dear, you'll have more bad experiences in your life than a most other people. My third: You found somebody you love, and who loves you. How absolutely wonderful!

Weeks later she told me she had wanted to tell me for ages (and especially since she found her loved one and wanted to bring her home as her girlfriend and not as one of many friends) but couldn't find the right moment.

What I have learned from talking with people is, a lot of them spend so much time to wait for the right moment to tell, they feel the mountain they have to climb gets bigger and bigger and their desperation grows accordingly. Quite a few tell it is during this time they harbor thoughts about suicide.

About identifying words/names for groups of people: It might seem right to want to "label" them with political correct nouns which describe why and how they are different from the majority. But why? Aren't we all different from others in many ways? Aren't we all just people? I do know I have a bit an utopical (and why does my spellcheck tell me this isn't a correct word?) view on humanity's future, but still: I simply have an aversion against labels and especially these. They have there origin in times where some people were seen as faults of nature, freaks, which were a subject of scientific interest.

In my opinion a person should be called what he/she wants to be called and if said person has an aversion against a certain label, one has to refrain from using it.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks for your posts and Rainey and Haurni - you've made me think about labels and more particularly, their context. If I'd studied English I'm sure I would have some examples at hand of the chameleon nature of words: for sure we can blanch when we hear older generations use the N word because they (pretend to?) know no better and my grandma used to use the word gay in its original way, much to our amusement!
I agree with Rainey as much as I do with Julia Serano's recent essay about the word Tranny: we should not be frightened of words per se and we should be able to use whatever words we care to choose, except that we can't, actually.
Utopical sounds a perfectly good new word (!) and I can picture myself, sitting with friends late at night after a couple of drinks, quietly discussing and musing over words. It is easy to make grand plans and gestures staring into the dying embers of a fire and assume the rest of the world must surely think as we do. Then the next morning we take the bus into town and step into a busy weekday where everyone is rushing, busy, short-tempered and our musing seems pretty silly.
So if I rail at labels and at the people who spit them out in my face, it is in the context of that busy street, or the drunks spilling out from a nightclub or the dark alley on my way home. I have no choice but to live defensively 24/7 and I judge words, taking that context as my base line.
Frankly, I don't give a shit about elegantly phrased essays discussing the niceties of one word or another when I am in fear of my life: nor would anyone and certainly not my friends who contribute to discussions here .
So do we just give up and accept the status quo: learn to live defensively and simply develop thicker skins against sticks and stones? Not that either. The kind of thing that does change attitudes is what I've seen in school and in younger generations (in the UK at least). We had it drummed into us at school that we need to care for the environment and so we put those aims into practice as far as we can. Here's another: I read a post from my friend Joy, saying how her youngest had been bullied at 'church' camp. Bullying has been flagged up as being totally unacceptable in UK schools: teachers and parents used to shrug and accept it was just part of growing up. Now it isn't and my generation will police for bullying because we know it's 100% wrong.
So things can change: we cured ourselves of the N word didn't we? I see the cure as being like treating an allergy: you have to introduce a total ban for a time, to let the body reset and only then allow a slow reintroduction of the troublesome food or 'allergen'. If, like RuPaul, everyone is allowed to make up their own rules, then the negative associations persist and become blurred by common usage so people can use the word innocently, not realising that it is a trigger to many.
What incenses me is that drag-queens and cd entertainers claim the word tranny is just a fun term and that, because they experience bullying and violence off-stage as either gay men or eccentric dressers, that means the word is 'ok' - as if their experience of violence was more authentic and outweighed the violent experiences of transgender men and women. WTF? Because that is what RuPaul is saying.
Look at the fucking statistics RuPaul: look at how many trans women are murdered in hate crimes every year, look at how many take their own lives because of the violence that words bring. They 'words' are not simple labels - they are bullets with only one target and a bullet fired 'in fun' or by mistake is just as lethal.
I'm not saying that one word makes a difference, when violence towards trans* has so many triggers, but it is very visible token. Lets draw a Nigger line here and realise we have to make a change before yet more people die because of 'innocent fun'.

 

[haurni]

Language changes naturally over time, but social pressures can also force change. Typically, though, these things seem to happen over generational timescales - often, those who think in the old manner have to die out before there's a real shift in thought patterns (we are seeing this now in environmental issues and attitudes to tobacco, as we did with civil rights in the 1960s). But these changes require that people keep speaking up and pointing out the negative effects of our attitudes and the words that we use. As always, education and awareness are the keys to change.

 

[dutchrain]

I fully agree, Sticky, words can be bullets. But as Haurni said, education and awareness are the key to change. So, everyone who nows better than to use insulting, hurtful words for people has to keep telling people who do (and I even grant them they maybe don't know what exactly they are saying), to stop and explain why.

It is very tiresome to do so, again and again, though.

 

[stickygirl]

I know in your cases Rainy & Haurni, I'm lecturing to the converted
I'm not hysterical over the use of 'that' word or 'shemale' or 'chick with a dick' or whatever, but discussion pushes me to be clear about my position and the reasons for it.

The key to it is the media: both news media and entertainment and both have a long way to go BUT the process has started. Main stream education should also take more responsibility. I think the UK and most ( but not all - think predominantly Catholic countries ) in Europe are far ahead of most states in the USA. Canada too is so cool

But chuntering on in this little goldfish bowl is one thing and I'd be happy to devote a good deal of my life to getting the message across, just as so many StoneWallers did in the 1960s and 70s. But you know it is with us armchair evangelists - we end up getting married, settling down and end up all domesticated!!

 

[stickygirl]

Keepin it real

https://41.media.tumblr.com/39282d95b00d53316de96f854bdf2c82/tumblr_mz4scqlEFA1s3sbzwo1_500.jpg
https://40.media.tumblr.com/456cbc615c2df0133adf6004ac80a62c/tumblr_mz4scqlEFA1s3sbzwo2_500.jpg
https://36.media.tumblr.com/0736ff6c4da72c74f30063976579965f/tumblr_mz4scqlEFA1s3sbzwo3_500.jpg

This is what happens when you judge by cis-gender and hetero-normative standards

 

[Paradox]

Stickygirl, thank you for creating this thread and for your openness. I haven't made it all the way through yet, and it may be months before I am able to plow through the supporting documentation that has been offered, but I'm learning good things and appreciate it. When I found this thread I was planning to ask if there was something similar on Lit for FtM trans persons, but I thought maybe I should read a little first and I'm glad I did. As I said, I haven't made it all the way through and will probably do that before asking any questions.

Again, thank you.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks Paradox: I'm flattered by your kind comments. I sometimes feel I rant a bit too much but I try to explain why: it's not just me, there are real issues in the lives of all gender variant folk that causes them a good deal of stress. I'm a happy person by nature
You may want to check with Stella for matter regarding FtM issues who is better informed than me. I'll ask for some links from contacts on Tumblr and post them here soon.

 

[stickygirl]

Happy 4th July to the USA and especially to the trans* community, lots of love from the UK

 

[stickygirl]

Not long to go till my surgery and I was going to post this on the Blurt thread:
Having electrolysis on your bits is really, really sore. Ice bag in place now ((
Another five sessions to go....

 

[Paradox]

Not long to go till my surgery and I was going to post this on the Blurt thread:
Having electrolysis on your bits is really, really sore. Ice bag in place now ((
Another five sessions to go....

I think this may be what people call TMI...LOL

 

[haurni]

Not long to go till my surgery and I was going to post this on the Blurt thread:
Having electrolysis on your bits is really, really sore. Ice bag in place now ((
Another five sessions to go....

All the best to you, SG!

 

[Paradox]

Thanks Paradox: I'm flattered by your kind comments. I sometimes feel I rant a bit too much but I try to explain why: it's not just me, there are real issues in the lives of all gender variant folk that causes them a good deal of stress. I'm a happy person by nature
You may want to check with Stella for matter regarding FtM issues who is better informed than me. I'll ask for some links from contacts on Tumblr and post them here soon.

By the way, an update is in order. I have been lucky enough to find a local FtM with whom I have been communicating who has been very helpful with some of my questions. Between this thread and my new friend I feel like I'm learning a lot. Many thanks to all the contributors who have shared their wisdom and personal insights.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks guys: well it's not all roses y'know But if you're squeamish I'll skip the reason for the electrolysis

Thanks again Paradox. I was thinking about cut n pasting the whole thread to Tumblr because it's not always appropriate to cite Literotica as your source of information :-\ What d'y'all think?

Glad to hear you've made a contact - one to one is always going to be better than links

 

[BradBigBrain]

Why are you going through electrolysis? I'm interested in knowing. Is it cosmetic or necessary for the surgery.

As crazy as this sounds...do you plan on having before and after pictures taken?

 

[stickygirl]

Why are you going through electrolysis? I'm interested in knowing. Is it cosmetic or necessary for the surgery.

As crazy as this sounds...do you plan on having before and after pictures taken?

Weelll... it's for the surgery. When you're playing patchwork quilts with your bits, there are some bits that really shouldn't have hairs going out Leave you to figure?

and no, I won't: I have zero interest in seeing my penis TYVM

 

[dutchrain]

Not long to go till my surgery and I was going to post this on the Blurt thread:
Having electrolysis on your bits is really, really sore. Ice bag in place now ((
Another five sessions to go....

Oh dear! I do hope it feels better by now!

 

[stickygirl]

Oh dear! I do hope it feels better by now!

On fire

 

[dutchrain]

On fire

Poor you!
Go sit in a cool bath?

 

[stickygirl]

Poor you!
Go sit in a cool bath?

I'm on strict orders to keep it super-clean for at least 24hrs. I'm sure it'll settle down over night... hope so 'cos I've got another session on Friday!!

 

[BradBigBrain]

On fire

You
Your sex is on fire
Consumed
With what's just transpired

 

[stickygirl]

You
Your sex is on fire
Consumed
With what's just transpired

Good thing laughing is no problem

What about this?

or

http://youtu.be/MGR4U7W1dZU

 

[BradBigBrain]

Good thing laughing is no problem

What about this?

That's hilarious.