As long as we are changing everything...

[Guest]

You know how it is. As long as we are putting in new carpet we may as well paint the walls. Preferably first.

So, while we are talking about restructuring the AH, I have a suggestion for restructuring the SDC.

Master Vassago started a thread regarding a work in progress. I think it is the perfect model for how SDC should work. He posted a story with "problems" on the thread. Various authors read it and gave suggestions and comments for revisions.

For me, getting my story 90% there and then seeking specific information/feedback from respected authors/editors is much more attractive than getting a rectal exam after I have posted the story.

I have felt badly picking apart a story that is already posted. I don't feel like I am really helping with that story.

If I know that the story is "in the works" I think I will feel more free to give feedback that questions the premise of the story or the development of a character.

KM would still control the board and keep the number of stories considered at one time manageable and the peripheral chat down.

Just a suggestion.

b

 

[Guest]

I daresay

I like your idea Bridget, very much. Just my opinion.

Perdita

 

[Pookie]

I like this idea. I still think the same rules should apply about giving feedback before you can submit your own. But I think there would be more participation from writers, and those giving feedback wouldn't be so skittish about hurting someone's feelings.

I think it would help improve my own writing as well, giving feedback and getting it for some of my unfinished stories. It might spur me to get busy with some I have set aside.

 

[Madame Manga]

Oh, yeah. There is nothing better than being able to say, "This is not polished final draft" when I ask for feedback. It spares a lot of feelings, especially mine. ;-) Everyone is less nervous when the writer is not maintaining in some sense that this is the very best she can do.

But one thing I dislike about critting drafts is the author who replies defensively to every remark, "Oh, I knew that already and I was going to fix it but didn't get around to it," or "Oh, I just squirted that out last night and didn't even spellcheck it." Uh-uh. It shouldn't be FIRST draft. Like bridgetkeeney said, it should be about 90% there and you should have knocked off the rough edges before you presume to ask for crit. Enough looseness to maneuver with, but no carelessness, please.

MM

 

[destinie21]

I think this is a great idea and as an author I'd feel more useful giving feedback on a partially finished story because :

a) when a story is completly finished I don't feel as if criticisim is constructive.(Nobody needs a midwife once the baby is born)

b) I'd be more inclined to read a partilly finished story and give feedback because at that point I know I'd be able to offer suggestions to help the story along.

 

[Quasimodem]

In my estimation, Bridget just nailed the basic problem with the SDC.

Critiquing in-depth an already-published story seems rather sadistic.

Submitting a story appears doubtlessly masochistic.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Well, maybe not.

While BK's idea has merit, IMhO, it also has some flaws.

As I understand the rules, all stories posted in Lit can be edited and re-submitted with vote and view totals left intact. So, in effect, no story in Lit is ever a final and unalterable version.

The SDC can only take "posted" stories. Thus, either a new category would have to be started, something like, "unfinished work" or maybe "works in progerss" or the existing categories will have to absorb the "not ready for prime-time versions."

Being able to post unfinished stories might be a neat deal for some writers, but it could become a pain for those writing the critique. At the risk of sounding like an elitest creep, (to each his own) why should they go to the trouble of reading a story, then writing a critique when the author hasn't even finished the frazzling thing?

And while many, maybe most of the writers doing this would be folks like BK or Quasi, good writers who are stuck or just want to "talk through" some rough patch, odds are a fair number of the submissions would be by folks who'd rather have someone else edit their first draft than do the re-write themselves.

Inveighing, I go now into that good night.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[flawed_ethics]

I though of that too when I read this - the story would have to be posted in order to be critiqued. One could circumvent this by posting to a thread, but if the story is fairly developed, it would be a painfully long thread.

The outside possibility would be to ever-so-politely to ask Laurel to set up some secret 'Draft' category that isn't available through the standard menus on Lit. People on the SDC would know of the address though, and could visit it whenever a story is posted there for review. Formality would instruct no voting, of course. I don't think the added views would be an issue. Then when the final version is submitted, the 'draft' version is deleted. It's a lot of extra work though, so it's just a pipe dream.

Still, I like the idea. Perhaps a trial basis could be done on the SDC where people post their drafts on a thread, and the reviews come in.

 

[English Lady]

Oh and i like the idea too..sounds very practical but i just thought would it step on any toes in the editors forum? I dunno...it was just a thought

 

[Guest]

Re: Well, maybe not.

While BK's idea has merit, IMhO, it also has some flaws.

Being able to post unfinished stories might be a neat deal for some writers, but it could become a pain for those writing the critique. At the risk of sounding like an elitest creep, (to each his own) why should they go to the trouble of reading a story, then writing a critique when the author hasn't even finished the frazzling thing?

And while many, maybe most of the writers doing this would be folks like BK or Quasi, good writers who are stuck or just want to "talk through" some rough patch, odds are a fair number of the submissions would be by folks who'd rather have someone else edit their first draft than do the re-write themselves.

Rumple Foreskin

RF-

Let me preface this by saying that I know that you have been a mainstay of the SDC and I value your thoughts.

I agree that posting a first draft to get a copy editor would not meet the purpose of SDC.

I see that as being a minor problem for two reasons: KM would still be moderating the threads and serious critiquers would quickly detect the motivation and just not respond.

While there is no limit on the number of times that rewrites can be submitted to Lit, if the concerns are substantive then I think that the stories will not and should not be posted in the first place.

By the time I post a story I have pretty much had enough of it. While I have gotten terrific critiques of my posted stories from you and others, I haven't gone back to change them. Post-posting critiques are more useful to me in how I can improve my overall writing for the future.

b

 

[Just_John1]

"For me, getting my story 90% there and then seeking specific information/feedback from respected authors/editors is much more attractive than getting a rectal exam after I have posted the story. "

No sense looking up a dead horses ass anyway right BK? chuckle chuckle... I like the idea of getting help on an on going story but wonder how long the thread would get. Perhaps a thread to post the story and a post to critique?

I was thinking it would be helpful to get a few inputs to certain sections of a story I'm working as opposed to the total story as a draft. I guess the length of the post would be dependent on the help you're looking for. Just my one and a half cents...

JJ1