are you either GAY or STRAIGHT, or is it a spectrum?

[taolanes]

my question is this.....

society likes to use the terms "gay" and "straight." meaning there are just 2 categories.

is that actually the case, or is it a continuous spectrum. meaning that some people are 80% straight, 74% straight, 95% gay, 97% straight, etc.

 

[DirkPryde]

Of course there is a spectrum. No matter what lables people come up with, someone else is going to disagree on the assumptions associated with said lable.

Though I hate the idea of percentages ... ewwww so many lables only serve to divide us even more than we already are!

I identify as Bi, though my reasons for calling myself Bi are probably different from the majority of other people that call themselves Bi.

There is no simple this and that, black and white, it all grey and I wouldn't have it any other way

 

[taolanes]

Great point. I really think humans, in general, need to stop with the labeling.

Whether it's your age, political party, country, hair color, or sexuality. All it does is cause division, so screw the labels

 

[emap]

No labels is a good idea, there is a problem with that, people seem to need having someone to hate, someone to fight with.

Look in the middle east, they all look roughly the same, dress the same, for the most part same religion, and they kill each other constantly, usually because the people they are attacking are from a different country, like say Iran and Iraq, same religion, same views on things, went to war with each other.

Same with Ireland, they are fighting against people of a different church, both worship the same god, both have the same basic concepts, or they are fighting to get rid of the English, who look the same, and have the same basic views, do talk different but so does most of the U.S.

You could say wars are started by the leaders, like both world wars, except that's not exactly right, some are, like the current one in Iraq, but some are started because the people scream for one, and the leader says OK, we're at war, shut up

 

[JeanetteLv2]

Problem is the human mind is naturally more geared to deal in dualities, polarities, and just basically in 2s whenever possible. And thus the majority of people just prefer the world to fit into black or white breakdowns avoid the thousand shades of grey in between. Easier to also feel like you have a grip on reality when you can more easily divide the world up into just a couple boxes.

 

[glamorilla]

great...so if it isnt a bunch of straight people telling me i'm not supposed to be gay its a bunch of people who enjoy sleeping with the same sex...

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

*shrugs* I'm neither for nor against the labels themselves, but I will say that if they are used Bisexual needs to be a choice as well. I am tired of Straight people AND Gay people telling me to stop straddling the fence and either 'come out of the closet' or (since I started dating my darling who is female they started this one) stop pretending to be other then straight. -_- idiots, people only see/hear what they like and ignore all else....

Yes I feel it's a spectrum, I used to argue that fact a couple months ago before I left for the summer.

-Zergplex

 

[glamorilla]

Re: Zergplex Says

*shrugs* I'm neither for nor against the labels themselves, but I will say that if they are used Bisexual needs to be a choice as well. I am tired of Straight people AND Gay people telling me to stop straddling the fence and either 'come out of the closet' or (since I started dating my darling who is female they started this one) stop pretending to be other then straight. -_- idiots, people only see/hear what they like and ignore all else....

Yes I feel it's a spectrum, I used to argue that fact a couple months ago before I left for the summer.

-Zergplex

i quite agree. bisexuality is one of the three options we have when choosing our sexual identity however i also feel that homosexuals who label themselves as bi to avoid societal stigmas or who remain firmly in the closet do our community a disservice.

i think its natural for people (heterosexuals) to be at times curious about a same sex encounter but how this manifests is the difference between denial and accepting yourself for who you really are.

what makes a person more or less gay? are you bisexual one day and straight the next?

it doesn't work that way.

 

[Zergplex]

Re: Re: Zergplex Says

i quite agree. bisexuality is one of the three options we have when choosing our sexual identity however i also feel that homosexuals who label themselves as bi to avoid societal stigmas or who remain firmly in the closet do our community a disservice.

i think its natural for people (heterosexuals) to be at times curious about a same sex encounter but how this manifests is the difference between denial and accepting yourself for who you really are.

what makes a person more or less gay? are you bisexual one day and straight the next?

it doesn't work that way.

That is a good point, though I do think it's possible for people overtime to change their preferences (a bisexual who finds overtime they perfer one sex, or a straight/gay person who finds things in the other sex they like as well). Then again I'm not one who believes you are born/raised one way or another. You become who you are through your choices, and continue to change as you continue to make choices and grow. Just my thoughts...

-Zergplex

 

[nodtveidt]

I'm a spectrum of sorts...I am a bit bicurious, but if a gay man approaches me and does the usual "I will hit on this guy because he looks bisexual and I know I can make him think only of men" hit-routine, it immediately turns me completely off to the idea and makes me remember just how much I love women. My gf is fully bisexual and wants me to have a threesome with her and a bisexual man, with some male-male activities...at one time I didn't really want to, but as I've gotten older, I've found myself becoming more and more sexually liberated and less afraid of being "labeled" a "homo" or a "fag" because frankly...I don't give a shit what people think. So I told her that if we ever found such a guy who would be willing to be patient with someone like me, then I'd be willing to try.

 

[FieryVixen]

I've never understood society's need to label sexuality. But I'm also an atheist, so I don't have the religious aspect with which I must contend.

I love men, women...helll, aliens would be fine with me, as long as I'm attracted to them. Sexuality is sexuality, why does it matter which gender is involved?

Lucky for me, I've recently heard my husband admit that a pre-op/post hormones tranny might appeal to him. *happy dance* For me, life couldn't be better.

 

[DirkPryde]

I have discussed this before on another thread. Society's need to lable that is. We have to lable things, with a lable comes an assumption that lets people know what we are talking about.

Example: If I said I was reading a book, people think of a thing that has a front and back cover with pages inbetween, I said "reading" so it must have words.

If I clarified further and said I was reading a magazine ... then that narrows your perception on what thing I was reading.

So we need lables and assumptions, other wise we would have to define everything all the time every time.

So I guess the major problem is not that we lable things, it is what we are taught those lables represent and when one person is taught one thing and another person something else, we have a conflict in ideas which of course leads to misunderstandings.

This is why people that a colour blind can still tell you what is red and green, because they grew up knowing that, that colour there is red, that is green, (Of course there are people who have no idea on the difference but you get what I mean ... I hope )

Humans are funny creatures!

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

I have discussed this before on another thread. Society's need to lable that is. We have to lable things, with a lable comes an assumption that lets people know what we are talking about.

Example: If I said I was reading a book, people think of a thing that has a front and back cover with pages inbetween, I said "reading" so it must have words.

If I clarified further and said I was reading a magazine ... then that narrows your perception on what thing I was reading.

So we need lables and assumptions, other wise we would have to define everything all the time every time.

So I guess the major problem is not that we lable things, it is what we are taught those lables represent and when one person is taught one thing and another person something else, we have a conflict in ideas which of course leads to misunderstandings.

This is why people that a colour blind can still tell you what is red and green, because they grew up knowing that, that colour there is red, that is green, (Of course there are people who have no idea on the difference but you get what I mean ... I hope )

Humans are funny creatures!

Labels themselves are not bad, but when you begin to see the label instead of a person thats when problems begin. You need to see everyone first as a person, equal to you even if they are differant. After people learn that they can chop them up into as many groups as they like, just as long as they know who you are is far more tehn what you are labeled with. I may be bisexual but I'm also a hopeless romantic, and an anime fan, and cursed to work at Walmart. I am so much more then bisexual, and everyone else here is far more then gay, lesbian, straight, or bi. We are people first and foremost and some people cannot see past the label, hence why several people dislike labeling. Just my view.

-Zergplex

 

[sigh]

Re: Re: Zergplex Says

i think its natural for people (heterosexuals) to be at times curious about a same sex encounter but how this manifests is the difference between denial and accepting yourself for who you really are.

This is a puzzler, for if so, then I'd have to argue that the reverse is true as well.

"I think it's natural for people (homosexuals) to be at times curious about a sex encounter with someone of the opposite gender, but how this manifests is the difference between denial and accepting yourself for who you really are."

Doesn't taste so good the other way around, though, does it?

I think the thing to remember here is that there's a big difference between curiosity and desire.

 

[sigh]

It's probably a spectrum (though who could ever quantify such a thing?) but it doesn't really matter. The labels simply point to sexual preference. Heterosexuals prefer sex with partners of the opposite sex. Homosexuals prefer sex with partners of the same sex. Bisexuals occupy all points along the spectrum between the two.

 

[John Doe]

It's probably a spectrum (though who could ever quantify such a thing?) but it doesn't really matter. The labels simply point to sexual preference. Heterosexuals prefer sex with partners of the opposite sex. Homosexuals prefer sex with partners of the same sex. Bisexuals occupy all points along the spectrum between the two.

I think that's an excellent way of putting it.

It recognizes that it's not a black and white proposition, but it also allows for people to state thier preference without feeling guilty for using an 'unclean' label.

 

[mystic_maiden32]

IMHO I just consider everyone sexual. I don't like to catagorize.

 

[Etoile]

Yes, it is definitely a spectrum. Renowned sex researcher Kinsey used a scale of 1 to 6, resulting in the phrase "Kinsey Six" being used in gay circles to describe someone who is exclusively homosexual.

Personally, I don't believe in absolutes. I don't think anybody is 100% gay or 100% straight. 100% bisexual maybe, but I guess that would only apply if someone were certain they were 50-50 in preferring males and females. (There are bisexual people who mostly prefer one gender, but there are some who split their preference equally.) In my opinion, everybody is a little bit bisexual...or they should be. I don't think people should close their minds off to an entire segment of the population just because they don't have a certain set of genitals and socially-defined characteristics. I realize somebody like Jerry Falwell isn't likely to ever be attracted to a guy, but it could happen.

I realize my views on this are somewhat controversial. I've been blasted on various forums for my opinions regarding sexuality and orientation. But there they are.

 

[sigh]

Yes, it is definitely a spectrum. Renowned sex researcher Kinsey used a scale of 1 to 6, resulting in the phrase "Kinsey Six" being used in gay circles to describe someone who is exclusively homosexual.

Personally, I don't believe in absolutes. I don't think anybody is 100% gay or 100% straight. 100% bisexual maybe, but I guess that would only apply if someone were certain they were 50-50 in preferring males and females. (There are bisexual people who mostly prefer one gender, but there are some who split their preference equally.) In my opinion, everybody is a little bit bisexual...or they should be. I don't think people should close their minds off to an entire segment of the population just because they don't have a certain set of genitals and socially-defined characteristics. I realize somebody like Jerry Falwell isn't likely to ever be attracted to a guy, but it could happen.

I realize my views on this are somewhat controversial. I've been blasted on various forums for my opinions regarding sexuality and orientation. But there they are.

Excellent post. I guess the only thing that keeps me from stating outright that no one is truly 100% straight or gay is that I can't possibly know that without being able to get inside everyone's heads. Like you, I strongly suspect there's at least a touch of bisexuality in all of us, but that's something that can never be proven, because someone will always deny it, and how could you prove it's a lie?

 

[Zergplex]

Zergplex Says

Yes, it is definitely a spectrum. Renowned sex researcher Kinsey used a scale of 1 to 6, resulting in the phrase "Kinsey Six" being used in gay circles to describe someone who is exclusively homosexual.

Personally, I don't believe in absolutes. I don't think anybody is 100% gay or 100% straight. 100% bisexual maybe, but I guess that would only apply if someone were certain they were 50-50 in preferring males and females. (There are bisexual people who mostly prefer one gender, but there are some who split their preference equally.) In my opinion, everybody is a little bit bisexual...or they should be. I don't think people should close their minds off to an entire segment of the population just because they don't have a certain set of genitals and socially-defined characteristics. I realize somebody like Jerry Falwell isn't likely to ever be attracted to a guy, but it could happen.

I realize my views on this are somewhat controversial. I've been blasted on various forums for my opinions regarding sexuality and orientation. But there they are.

Heh, I'v been blasted on this forum in the past for saying this very thing ^_^ I agree 100%

-Zergplex

 

[glamorilla]

Re: Re: Re: Zergplex Says

This is a puzzler, for if so, then I'd have to argue that the reverse is true as well.

"I think it's natural for people (homosexuals) to be at times curious about a sex encounter with someone of the opposite gender, but how this manifests is the difference between denial and accepting yourself for who you really are."

Doesn't taste so good the other way around, though, does it?

I think the thing to remember here is that there's a big difference between curiosity and desire.

not really.

heterosexuality is the majority norm. the stigmas associated with being gay aren't there. a heterosexual has nothing to lose by standing up and claiming his (or her) sexuality whereas coming out and being honest with feelings of homo or bi sexuality could lead to problems with family,friends,peers,employment, and housing.

what is curiosity but desire?

when it comes to sexual preferance you are one of three things:

homosexual

bisexual

heterosexual.

period.

 

[sigh]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Zergplex Says

not really.

heterosexuality is the majority norm. the stigmas associated with being gay aren't there. a heterosexual has nothing to lose by standing up and claiming his (or her) sexuality whereas coming out and being honest with feelings of homo or bi sexuality could lead to problems with family,friends,peers,employment, and housing.

what is curiosity but desire?

when it comes to sexual preferance you are one of three things:

homosexual

bisexual

heterosexual.

period.

The converse is true as well. Once out, a homosexual has little to lose by proclaiming himself to be (at least) curious about being bisexual. The biggest step (proclaiming oneself as a sexual aberrant in society's eyes) has already been taken. The heterosexual, on the other hand, has a great deal to lose by making the same admission.

glam, the rules have to play the same way, regardless of the norm. If (as you suggested) it's natural for heterosexuals to be at times curious about a homosexual relationship, then it's a simple step to say that it's natural for homosexuals to be at times curious about a heterosexual relationship. And if either the heterosexual or homosexual denies those feelings, then she's not accepting herself for who she really is (insert male pronouns in place of female as you wish).

The only other alternatives would be to say:
1) only heterosexuals feel curious about changing their sexual preference (at least for a night), and that homosexuals never do
2) or that homosexuals never deny their curiosity about a heterosexual relationship, while heterosexuals do deny the reverse
3) or that there are those who are 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual, and are thus never curious about bisexuality.

The first alternative is silly; I simply don't believe it. To believe such a thing is prejudicial. All heterosexuals have an inclination towards bisexuality, but there are homosexuals who do not? That doesn't ring true to me.

As for the second, all humans are human regardless of sexual orientation. We all deny things, to ourselves and to others. Under certain circumstances, social pressures may make denial (or acceptance) easier, but it can't alone make one side immune to the effects of such curiosities.

As for the third possibility, you said that it's natural for heterosexuals to be at times curious about a same sex encounter, so you seem to have already argued against the idea of 100% sexual preference. Unless, that is, you favor the first alternative above.

To me, then, the only conclusion that I can come to is that we are indeed all bisexual, to one degree or another, but that (as I've said previously) there's no way to prove it.

Regardless of all of that, though, there's nothing wrong with whatever stance any of us take. If we're strongly homosexual yet occasionally wonder about about having sex with someone of the opposite gender, but never feel enough desire to actually try it, that's cool. Nor is there anything wrong with a heterosexual feeling the same way.

The only thing wrong is not being able taking a step towards a perferred sexuality because of the immense burden of social pressures. In that, glam, we most surely do agree. And yes, that burden weighs most heavy on those who wish to have sex with someone of the same sex.

 

[CarelessWhisper]

I just keep it simple........Im married, love my husband, love having sex with my husband, but also love having sex with other women.......no emotional attachment....well no...they have to be good friends first....but I would never leave him for a woman and I dont think I could love a woman like I love him. So just call me hetero-flexible.........

 

[Queersetti]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Zergplex Says

The converse is true as well. Once out, a homosexual has little to lose by proclaiming himself to be (at least) curious about being bisexual. The biggest step (proclaiming oneself as a sexual aberrant in society's eyes) has already been taken. The heterosexual, on the other hand, has a great deal to lose by making the same admission.

glam, the rules have to play the same way, regardless of the norm. If (as you suggested) it's natural for heterosexuals to be at times curious about a homosexual relationship, then it's a simple step to say that it's natural for homosexuals to be at times curious about a heterosexual relationship. And if either the heterosexual or homosexual denies those feelings, then she's not accepting herself for who she really is (insert male pronouns in place of female as you wish).

The only other alternatives would be to say:
1) only heterosexuals feel curious about changing their sexual preference (at least for a night), and that homosexuals never do
2) or that homosexuals never deny their curiosity about a heterosexual relationship, while heterosexuals do deny the reverse
3) or that there are those who are 100% heterosexual or 100% homosexual, and are thus never curious about bisexuality.

The first alternative is silly; I simply don't believe it. To believe such a thing is prejudicial. All heterosexuals have an inclination towards bisexuality, but there are homosexuals who do not? That doesn't ring true to me.

As for the second, all humans are human regardless of sexual orientation. We all deny things, to ourselves and to others. Under certain circumstances, social pressures may make denial (or acceptance) easier, but it can't alone make one side immune to the effects of such curiosities.

As for the third possibility, you said that it's natural for heterosexuals to be at times curious about a same sex encounter, so you seem to have already argued against the idea of 100% sexual preference. Unless, that is, you favor the first alternative above.

To me, then, the only conclusion that I can come to is that we are indeed all bisexual, to one degree or another, but that (as I've said previously) there's no way to prove it.

Regardless of all of that, though, there's nothing wrong with whatever stance any of us take. If we're strongly homosexual yet occasionally wonder about about having sex with someone of the opposite gender, but never feel enough desire to actually try it, that's cool. Nor is there anything wrong with a heterosexual feeling the same way.

The only thing wrong is not being able taking a step towards a perferred sexuality because of the immense burden of social pressures. In that, glam, we most surely do agree. And yes, that burden weighs most heavy on those who wish to have sex with someone of the same sex.

I have to disagree that out homosexuals have little to lose if they confess to bisexual urges. The stigma that can be attached within the gay community can be extremely burdensome. Granted, it is probably less of a problem than it is for heterosexuals, but the problem does exist.

Resistance to the "everyone is really bi to some degree" position among gays is predicated on a fear that acceptance of such a view will lead us down a slippery slope that eventually denies us a right to our identity (If everyone is bi, then everyone should be able to find an opposite sex partner so there is no reason to tolerate homosexuality.)

I think that those of us who identify as gay as far less likely, having achieved that recognition, to thereafter find ourselves experiencing "bi-curiosity", for the simple reason that in order to come to an understanding of our sexuality, we have already dealt with such issues. Most heterosexuals, on the other hand, don't go through that sort of self examination, but grow to a mature sexuality while assuming their heterosexuality.

Personally, I believe that this is ultimately an insoluble question. The parameters of what constitutes sexual desire, and the question as to when a preference becomes an imperative are too vague to allow for a definitive answer.

 

[glamorilla]

good posts from both of you~especially that there isn't an easy answer to this. i go by on what i see around me. i've always felt that we know the truths to our sexuality wether we admit it or not and i see a lot of men who are bisexual and gay leading very unhappy lives pretending they aren't mostly out of fear of what would happen to them if the "truth" were to come out.

its kind of sad.