Are There More Good People Than Bad?

[cantdog]

For me, good or bad requires intent, a conscious decision to perform an action and a realisation of the consequences of that action. Good and bad require a conscious acceptance or denial of ethics.

And I don't believe most people have intent. They perform the actions that they have learned they should perform by the cultural millieu they live in. With little or no conscious ethics they cannot be considered either bad or good.

Most people 'just follow orders'.

The majority is irreflective. Quite true. But again, there is the primate social component. Just following orders makes you good, in the eyes of the ones that "matter," the ones issuing the orders.

In a way.

Out of the conscious, deliberate segment of society, taking only the minority who ever give it any thought, do you see that most of those people have decided to act well, or have most tumbled to the game and decided to lead lives of underhanded and ruthless self-interest?

 

[ishtat]

To me, it's all about intent. Also, the definition of what it a good cause is a cultural construct, so it's pretty hard to be bad from your own perspective. If I believe that it's a good deed to torture kittens and commit genocide, then torturing said kittens and comitting random acts of lethal ethnic cleansing will make me a good person.

By any normal standards, it will also make me a completely insane person, but that's another issue.

#L

The Catholic Church believes that all of us are born sinners. (Doctrine of original Sin). Personally I believe that is a ridiculous doctrine but I do believe that we all have the capacity to do evil. Consider a few philosopical propositions:-

1 Was Sergeant Mold born bad.
2 Was he bad when he dropped the Xyklon B into the gas chambers.
3 Was the person who told him to do it as bad or worse than him, ie. can you grade degrees of evil? To use Liar's term is it a defence to say the intent was someone elses?

Personally I believe we all have the capacity to be a Sergeant Mold but also have the capacity to recognise that possibility and choose whether or not to avoid it.

 

[Lisa Denton]

Most people are good, I mean, I sometimes kick my neighbors cat. Its not because I don't really like cats, which I don't, but the damn cat likes me and runs towards me at night time and I can't see and am afraid its a really big rabid rat or somethin. I feel bad about it.

Lots of people are bad because they are afraid. They think if a person smiles at a child they are a child molester, and if a person is friendly they want to fuck, which might be true but not always. So if someones says "hi" they say "fuck you" and treat everyone like shit. Thier little warped brains get used to the idea, so they cut everbody off in traffic, cause the other peoples are wannafuck child molesters and the scared peoples think they are the only good people. They start to make it true as they scowl at people un-intentionally and then think everyone is mean. They wonder why thier diet pepsi tastes like the waitress spit in it so they leave her a two penny tip, not realizing that she did spit in it cause last time they left a two penny tip because they were mad at someone else. They make thier own pissed off mean little world where everyone is bad, except them.

I live in a big city, terrible traffic, peoples say never turn on your blinker cause peoples will speed up so you can't get over. They believe it. They think you have to fight and scream and honk your horn and cut everybody off. I see them. As I drive along listenin to a good song on the radio, I am not smilin like a stoned idiot, but wave and mouth "thanks" when I turn on my blinker and most people let me over, and I let other people over.

Of course I could get where I'm going 60 seconds faster if I drove like a fuckin maniac with a burnin two by four shoved up my ass. But I leave 15 minutes early in case the sore assholes have a accident cutting each other off, so I am always early, not late.

I say "hi" to people, and sometimes see surprise before a big smile and they say "hi" back. Not that I trust anyone, I have a concealed carry permit, and may have to turn to show someone I have my hand on my gun, that hello didn't mean "lets go down this alley and fuck like animals" or maybe "rob me, rape me, kill me, I'm stupid" but merely hello.

Most people are good, there are some really sick bad people out there also, and a lot of very afraid people in between, who often act bad.

Just my opinion.

Have a fuckin beautiful day

 

[Guest]

It's all about intent and perspective.

For example, I think I'm an inherently good person, BUT I LOVE to do bad things. And, it's precisely because those things are usually perceived as bad, that gives me the real kick and the reason why I love to do them so much.

(I must add, these things aren't really "bad", i.e. I don't break any laws and they don't hurt anyone else, but they are BAD! )

We can't be good all the time, where's the fun in that? Rebelling, kicking back and saying, "to hell with it!" don't 'arf spice up your life.

Edited to add: I forgot to state my actual point in all that! What I meant to say, in conclusion was: People are good, it's the acts that are bad. Kind of. Ish. Oh, and it's not black and white (well, the underwear is, but...)

 

[McKenna]

For me, good or bad requires intent, a conscious decision to perform an action and a realisation of the consequences of that action. Good and bad require a conscious acceptance or denial of ethics.

And I don't believe most people have intent. They perform the actions that they have learned they should perform by the cultural millieu they live in. With little or no conscious ethics they cannot be considered either bad or good.

Most people 'just follow orders'.

Pardon me for just repeating rgraham's words, but he said it better than I could.

I will add that along with conscious intent comes awareness of responsibility for actions and deeds, good or bad. It could be fear or perhaps desire to bring about a certain reaction that causes people to act the way they do, but irregardless, they do so -good or bad- with conscious intent.

That makes the bad truly evil and the good extremely good.

 

[neonlyte]

Are good people better actors or simply Fifth Business?*



*Fifth Business - Those roles which, being neither those of Hero or Heroine, Confidente nor Villain, but which were nonetheless essential to bring out the Recognition or the dénouement, were called the Fifth Business in drama and opera companies organised according to the old style; the player who acted these parts was referred to as the Fifth Business. Tho Overskou, Den Danske Skueplads.

 

[cantdog]

Lisa puts her finger squarely on the consequences, day to day, of the answer you give to this question. I find good people wherever I go, where others categorize the same places as unfriendly or resentful. You do fulfil your own expectations.

You do it internally, by editing what you have perceived to jibe with your expectations, as Lisa said. They smile to see your child and you perceive another bad 'un. It makes you correct. You knew all along they were likely bad 'uns.

You do it externally, cause the fulfillment of your bad expectations, by acting suspicious, scowling at folks, taking pre-emptive revenge, one-upping the bastards. This causes a change in the way peole are in your presence, and further reinforces the whole thing.

How you say people are, basically, is how they will be, basically. I gently suggest that you think well of us. Life will be better if you do.

 

[Kassiana]

I don't know. Based on my own experiences, junior high and high school kids are by and large assholes. Adults seem to be a little better on the assholery list than kids are. I work customer service for a utility right now, so I can safely say that at most one or two people a day are jerks to me out of (guessing) 200-300 calls. That's not bad.

 

[Belegon]

For example, I think I'm an inherently good person, BUT I LOVE to do bad things. And, it's precisely because those things are usually perceived as bad, that gives me the real kick and the reason why I love to do them so much.

(I must add, these things aren't really "bad", i.e. I don't break any laws and they don't hurt anyone else, but they are BAD! )

We can't be good all the time, where's the fun in that? Rebelling, kicking back and saying, "to hell with it!" don't 'arf spice up your life.

Lou, milove, the things you love to do are "naughty" but they are not "bad"...and naughty can very definitely be good. I've always felt that...(my title up there has been the same for several thousand posts...)

good & evil are in some ways societal constructs and intent definitely comes to bear on them...

truly evil things often seem to be related to either a lack of empathy or else true apathy towards our fellow humans...

 

[cloudy]

I think people, as individuals, are more good than bad. It's when they get into large groups that things get out of hand. One of my favorite sayings is "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups."

The examples from history are endless. We do fine as individuals, for the most part, but get a mob together, and all bets are off.

 

[amicus]

"...Are There More Good People Than Bad?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously a very subjective question...but do you think that most people are basically good people? In my profession I have come to believe that most people ARE good but that the bad ones get most of the attention. Thoughts? Opinions?..."

Asked by Belegon...

"...good & evil are in some ways societal constructs and intent definitely comes to bear on them..."

Answered by Belegon..

It does not surprise me that authors here don't know the difference between good and bad; this is the Author's Hangout, right?

Since humanity has spent a zillion years codifying laws that protect good and punish bad then I suppose it is unreal to expect 'writers' to even have a clue about the means by which we differentiate between the two.

The difficulty seems to lie in the observation that if you do make an effort to comprehend the essence of good and evil, and actually are smart enough to reach a conclusion, then it follows logically that one would be compelled to advocate, support and live the 'good' life.

And that is far too great a burden for many.

amicus...

 

[The_Darkness]

I think it's pretty obvious that there's more good people than bad....but the presence of bad people is a neat little question. Psychology is telling us that bad people are the product of bad environment, but there's a big swing moving toward a physical arrangement of the brain's thought processes that makes people "bad"

It functions kinda like the whole S&M thing...pain can equal pleasure, and pleasure felt after pain feels better. I have a similar thing with cold. I love cold. I've specifically reprogrammed my brain to not feel uncomfortable when I'm cold, and I've done it to the point now that I can't tolerate much over 85 degrees Fairenheit (forgive the spelling, I've never been able to spell that for some reason). In Iowa, that's not such a good thing....we have some of the coldest temps in the US during the winter and some of the hotest during the summers, giving even the deserts a run for their money some days.

But I digress. People are "bad" because it's either fun for them or they have no fear of getting caught. That's an over simplification and a rationalization that is way to easy (there's never only two ways about something) but it's the truth.

The problem is that we focus on the negative. It's shocking, it's sensational, and we usually can't get enough of it. Our societies have conditioned us that extreme violence (bombs, wars, etc) are the most natural things ever...and to some degree that's an extension of nature, in all its facets. I think we see more bad things because the good things have become so common place to us that they're part of every-day life. It's not that there's more bad than good, it's just that there's more awful bad then very good.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

"Good and bad, I defined these terms, quite clear, no doubt, somehow. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now."
Bob Dylan.

Rumple "getting younger every day" Foreskin

 

[Quiet_Cool]

The difficulty seems to lie in the observation that if you do make an effort to comprehend the essence of good and evil, and actually are smart enough to reach a conclusion, then it follows logically that one would be compelled to advocate, support and live the 'good' life.

And that is far too great a burden for many.

amicus...

I hate to say this, but amicus and I are in partial agreement. It's not always an issue of good or bad. Those are evaluations of our behavior and who we are, often made after the fact. Truth be told, we are more lazy than either one. People tend to do what gains them the most, and rationalizations are in unimaginable abundance, not to mention of the utmost convenience.

My viewpoint, people tend to be selfish and introspective only when it's convenient. Basically, mostly we're bad.

Off-topic (sort of) I don't agree with those of us here not knowing the difference between right and wrong; I think we're mostly just wording things differently, and showing that, unlike most people, we're free-thinking, and tend to stray toward a different viewpoint than others simply because we're comfortable having different viewpoints.

Q_C

 

[amicus]

Guilt by association, Quiet Cool, you may never be forgiven for even remotely agreeing with Amicus.

However, I offer you an escape route:

'Good' is an objective concept that can be precisely defined and rendered absolute and axiomatic, in terms of reason and rationality.

Yeah, I know, read that a couple times.

...and I think I will leave it right there....and let others stew over it.

there...ur home free...

amicus...

 

[The_Darkness]

Off-topic (sort of) I don't agree with those of us here not knowing the difference between right and wrong; I think we're mostly just wording things differently, and showing that, unlike most people, we're free-thinking, and tend to stray toward a different viewpoint than others simply because we're comfortable having different viewpoints.

Q_C

I dissagree! Oh shit...never mind.

You're not wrong though. We here in the AH seem to be a clearer thinking group (generally) and we each have our own opinions that we stick to, and occassionally they line up with other like minded folks, particularly others in the AH. That doesn't change the fact that some people just don't know the difference between right and wrong...true psychopaths either don't know or don't care about the difference and act according to what they see to be the best (most advantageous) course.

I always thought the ability to see things from different view points was what made the best authors....

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I dissagree! Oh shit...never mind.

You're not wrong though. We here in the AH seem to be a clearer thinking group (generally) and we each have our own opinions that we stick to, and occassionally they line up with other like minded folks, particularly others in the AH. That doesn't change the fact that some people just don't know the difference between right and wrong...true psychopaths either don't know or don't care about the difference and act according to what they see to be the best (most advantageous) course.

I always thought the ability to see things from different view points was what made the best authors....

True psychopath's aren't really the topic, though, given that they are in the minorirty (to put it mildly). And the ability to see things from those angles don't necessarily imply any agreeance with the viewpoints in question.

Other than that, I don't see how we disagreed exactly, though I'm tired, and perhaps could have read this again... (again, lazy... )

Q_C

 

[amicus]

The Darkness: "...I always thought the ability to see things from different view points was what made the best authors...."


I fully agree...unfortunately here on Lit, the vast majority see only one side of the issue and are violently and oftimes nastily contentious about any other pov.

amicus...

 

[elsol]

In this as with everything else, there are more mediocre people than either good or bad.

I'm neither good nor bad, I'm selfish.

Take the following example.

You find a 'lost' wallet.

A 'good' person would mail everything to the owner.
A 'somewhat good' person would keep the cash and mail the 'wallet, credit cards, driver's license' back to the person.
A 'bad' person would charge up several thousand dollars in...

I'm taking the cash and throwing away the rest.

See... selfish enough to take the cash but too lazy to do anything really bad.

I'm mediocre in the whole good and evil thing.


Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Quiet_Cool]

In this as with everything else, there are more mediocre people than either good or bad.

I'm neither good nor bad, I'm selfish.

Take the following example.

You find a 'lost' wallet.

A 'good' person would mail everything to the owner.
A 'somewhat good' person would keep the cash and mail the 'wallet, credit cards, driver's license' back to the person.
A 'bad' person would charge up several thousand dollars in...

I'm taking the cash and throwing away the rest.

See... selfish enough to take the cash but too lazy to do anything really bad.

I'm mediocre in the whole good and evil thing.


Sincerely,
ElSol

Um... But taking the cash is still pretty much stealing, unless you toss one of them there rationalizations in to try and make it okay. And is it really fair to give someone who does something wrong credit simply because they didn't do anything worse. I mean, reflecting on the "now this is disturbing" thread, taking the cash but not charging the cards is like committing the rape, but expecting credit for not killing the victim. It doesn't line up....

I fully agree...unfortunately here on Lit, the vast majority see only one side of the issue and are violently and oftimes nastily contentious about any other pov.

amicus...

Not judging, since I haven't posted much with you, but I believe some people in the AH would agree here...









...using you as an example, no less.

Q_C

 

[amicus]

no doubt...

 

[kendo1]

I think that most people here can see both sides of an argument/discussion.
Though I can think of a few who can't, some who think the rest of the world are trying to put them down!

Personally, I'm an optimist. And I love these threads.

Amicus and Shanglan can be great fun!

 

[Guest]

"Society's institutions, like government, schools, the arts, and the media, corrupt naturally good individuals." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712 - 1778)

 

[rikaaim]

Fuck You!

















Now...some people will take offense to this as others may start to smirk a bit.

The ones who take offense will think I'm a bad person.
The ones who smirk may be thinking of a naughty little bedroom romp, in which case I am a good person.

Is either of that group right? Not really. Not in my opinion. I am who am I am. That's all that I am. Popeye had it right on the money. You know what? We all fuck up at some point. It's a way of life. What happens after the fuck up is what counts. Do you live and learn? Do you repeat it over and over again asserting that you're an asshole and that life is shit because you're in it? Again...it doesn't really matter because neither way is "wrong". It's just how one person is vs. another. To be fair many other thoughts go along with this same line of questioning. How many years of psychology has been done just to establish personality traits? How can all of those traits be broken down into a mere two personality category? I don't think they can.

Yet that's exactly what you're asked to do to answer this question. Take into account all the things that can happen in a day. Take into account all the personalities we know of. Take into account the amount of pain a person may be in due to an unforseen accident. Take into account some bad news someone just got. Take into account some good news. Take into account someone feeling better after being sick for a few weeks. Take into account that someone just learned they never have to pay bills again. How much does money drive us as far as motiviation? A ton. Some people may be "good" people because they don't have to worry about money and can donate more than others. It's all a matter of opinion, thus this question has no answer, just opinions, which is fine.

Does this question really need an answer? Not really. What would we do with a dinfinate answer? Tell a university to publish the findings of the collective minds of porn writers on the very nature of good and bad in a person? Sure...we could do that. What do you think would happen?

Take into account the chaos theory. What if suddenly that good old sun of ours finally burst and then started to melt away our very flesh. Who would be good or bad then? No one. We'd all be dead, and you know what? In the end that's all we're going to be anyway. So why worry about it? I know no one is really worried per say, but you know what I mean.

I'm good sometimes. I'm bad sometimes. I'm delicously naughty other times. The bottom line...I'm me all the time.

My name's David. Nice to meet ya.

 

[nushu2]

Call me an optometrist but I see most people try to do good. Unfortunately, there are more stupid people than smart. It's that constant confrontation with stupidity that's making me downright evil. The glass is half-full of stinkin', polluted water.