Are Gays sick of Gays in the media?

[modest mouse]

The more media your brain sucks up, be it TV, be it Movies, be it Journalism, the more Gay themes you will bump into.

THis is not inherently a bad thing. Truth is that its probably been a long time coming. But the pendulum has swung perhaps too far.

Are Gays merely a new demographic to mine for disposable income, a vast resource of ad revenues? A source of stories and jokes to propel lackluster programming that consists of recycled Friends jokes and Murder She Wrote plotlines but witha Gay character? Lame redecorating programs, as if the world somehow craved another one.

The point of having Gay people, Gay themes, and Gay families integrated into culture and media seems to have been lost ina wave of shallow fancy, of interest at a distance, and of too-easy stances that have little or nothing to do with reality. Perhaps I ask too much of the media.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

No, all gays support all other gays no matter what!!

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

The point of having Gay people, Gay themes, and Gay families integrated into culture and media seems to have been lost ina wave of shallow fancy, of interest at a distance, and of too-easy stances that have little or nothing to do with reality. Perhaps I ask too much of the media.

MM...one runs into the same problem with any *NEW* trend. In the 70's it was badly made *Black* shows ie *The Jeffersons*, *Good Times*, etc. And the 80's we had bullshit like *Falcon Crest*, *Dynasty* and the early seasons of *Knots Landing*..With the 90's we had to watch for the teen demogeraphic ie *buffy*, *90210* etc, etc. I guess the millenium is the time for the media in all it's forms to *highlight* the gay life style. Am i sick of it? For the most part, yes. We had a few wellwritten dramas (mostly on cable) and then TA-DA *Will and Grace*. BANG!!! There goes the neighborhood!!

Just my Humble Opinion...

lil girl

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: Are Gays sick of Gays in the media?

MM...one runs into the same problem with any *NEW* trend. In the 70's it was badly made *Black* shows ie *The Jeffersons*, *Good Times*, etc. And the 80's we had bullshit like *Falcon Crest*, *Dynasty* and the early seasons of *Knots Landing*..With the 90's we had to watch for the teen demogeraphic ie *buffy*, *90210* etc, etc. I guess the millenium is the time for the media in all it's forms to *highlight* the gay life style. Am i sick of it? For the most part, yes. We had a few wellwritten dramas (mostly on cable) and then TA-DA *Will and Grace*. BANG!!! There goes the neighborhood!!

Just my Humble Opinion...

lil girl

There are quality 'black' shows on now?!?

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Re: Re: Re: Are Gays sick of Gays in the media?

There are quality 'black' shows on now?!?

No i would not say THAT, however as the years progressed we have finally gotten black actors/actresses in leading roles in the media. True there are NO good shows with a predominantly "Black" cast, but what we have now is infinitely better than what was out in the 70's and 80's. One can only hope that this is true of the "GAY" lifestyle as well.

lil girl

 

[modest mouse]

Apet,

You're correct in noting that the exploitation is nothing new. The cycle is about to peak i think, which is best for everyone in that ina few years what remains on TV or the characters that find their way into films will be more typical of Gay folks, who are, in the end, pretty fucking interesting without any mention of their sexuality.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Apet,

You're correct in noting that the exploitation is nothing new. The cycle is about to peak i think, which is best for everyone in that ina few years what remains on TV or the characters that find their way into films will be more typical of Gay folks, who are, in the end, pretty fucking interesting without any mention of their sexuality.

Hear, Hear. I will be extremely pleased when that day finally arrives!!

lil girl

 

[glamorilla]

I do agree there is some exploiting of gay themes going on but there are other programs out there besides "Will and Grace" or "Queer Eye".

I suggest picking up a few movies like "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss","Trick","The Wedding Party". "Spin City","Dynasty","Melrose Place" and "Dawson's Creek" (while you can argue the quality of the shows) all had cast regulars that were openly gay and did not fall into the "flambuyant gay stereo type".

There's lots more but I'm tired and too lazy to look them up.

Mainstream media rarely strays from popular stereotypes.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

I suggest picking up a few movies like "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss","Trick","The Wedding Party". "Spin City","Dynasty","Melrose Place" and "Dawson's Creek" (while you can argue the quality of the shows) all had cast regulars that were openly gay and did not fall into the "flambuyant gay stereo type".

Do ya know..i haven't heard of most of those movies. I will have to go investigate. As for the tv shows..i was a huge fan of Dawson's Creek (until they started getting sappy) as well as Melrose Place.

Thanks for the info glam...

lil girl

 

[MzChrista]

I watch a show I like and dont watch it if I dont and whether the characters are gay or not doesnt make much difference to me.
I think its mostly a good thing that there are more gay and les characters though since so many people seem to think they know everyone on TV personally.

 

[modest mouse]

Glam,

'Spin City', in those first two years, is a great example of a Gay character who wasnt there merely because he was Gay. He was also black but that was rarely played for jokes either. I forget the character or actor's name but he was flat out funny, with perfect comedic timing. His interaction with the dude from 'Bueller" was often that of straight-man, gay-man but played more off of there friendship than their differences.

But mostly I watched the show because I wanted to pump Connie Britton full of cum, repeatedly.

 

[Queersetti]

Apet,

You're correct in noting that the exploitation is nothing new. The cycle is about to peak i think, which is best for everyone in that ina few years what remains on TV or the characters that find their way into films will be more typical of Gay folks, who are, in the end, pretty fucking interesting without any mention of their sexuality.

Overall, I agree with you.

I do believe there are some very well drawn gay characters on TV, primarily on some of the cable channel shows, such as David and Keith on Six Feet Under, or the detective on The Wire who is a lesbian.

 

[Rhys]

I do agree there is some exploiting of gay themes going on but there are other programs out there besides "Will and Grace" or "Queer Eye".

I suggest picking up a few movies like "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss","Trick","The Wedding Party". "Spin City","Dynasty","Melrose Place" and "Dawson's Creek" (while you can argue the quality of the shows) all had cast regulars that were openly gay and did not fall into the "flambuyant gay stereo type".

There's lots more but I'm tired and too lazy to look them up.

Mainstream media rarely strays from popular stereotypes.

Babylon 5 had an openly lesbian character.

and then there is the whole Xena arguement...

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Babylon 5 had an openly lesbian character.

and then there is the whole Xena arguement...

And I adore how JMS (creator of B5) didn't make it a big deal at all. That was handled incredibly well.

Xena and Gabrielle, no doubt

Buffy's Willow and Tara are another good example of non-exploitative gay characters.


But to be honest...any media attention on gays is at least keeping us out there. With bush and his closet oriented agenda, I say turn up the flames if only to keep us visible and to counteract the idea that we might go back (which bush and his moronic right seem to think is a legit possibility)

 

[MzChrista]

Overall, I agree with you.

I do believe there are some very well drawn gay characters on TV, primarily on some of the cable channel shows, such as David and Keith on Six Feet Under, or the detective on The Wire who is a lesbian.

The Wire is a great show.
I watch it with my Mom every week and every week she tells me that woman is a lesbian.

Thanks Mom, I got it.

 

[SilkVelvet]

And in the UK..

Though there have been gay characters in TV shows before now, and shows like 'Queer As Folk' on Channel Four, in October something ground-breaking will be shown on ITV.

Coronation Street, the longest running soap on TV in the UK, will show its first gay kiss after 43 years.

Todd Grimshaw (Bruno Langley) will kiss Nick Tilsley (Adam Rickett) on the sofa at Nick's sister's flat.

It will be really interesting to see what the reaction is, to a male-to-male gay kiss on the UK's most widely watched television show.

 

[LarzMachine]

Re: Re: Are Gays sick of Gays in the media?

and then TA-DA *Will and Grace*. BANG!!! There goes the neighborhood!!

The main reasons I won't watch Will & Grace are it has too much of a "Look, maw! A queer!" feel to it, and I can't stand that squeaky little guy. He simply isn't funny except accidentally, and his character is ridiculously exploitative.

Usually I merely want to see him dropped from the show, but sometimes it gets to the point where I'd like to beat the living feses out of him. Case in point: one episode, he comes scurrying out to a big yellow cup of coffee or tea, takes a long drink, does a ridiculously stereotypical "look at me! I'm a twink so everything is orgasmic pleasure! Isn't it cute?" take and moans "Mmmmmm! Cimmanon!" I wanted to reach into the TV and strangle the little putz right there. I swear, that dope is singlehandedly setting back perceptions of gays by 20 years. As long as twerps like him are portrayed as normal, the perception of gays as a bunch of "limp-wristed faggotts" will always be right in the front of attitudes.

 

[LarzMachine]

I do agree there is some exploiting of gay themes going on but there are other programs out there besides "Will and Grace" or "Queer Eye".

I suggest picking up a few movies like "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss","Trick","The Wedding Party". "Spin City","Dynasty","Melrose Place" and "Dawson's Creek" (while you can argue the quality of the shows) all had cast regulars that were openly gay and did not fall into the "flambuyant gay stereo type".

There's lots more but I'm tired and too lazy to look them up.

Mainstream media rarely strays from popular stereotypes.

What about the bad guy (Milo) in The Last Boy Scout? That guy was one of the most genuinely scary bad guys I've seen in a LONG time. Straight, gay or Martian, that dude was the LAST guy you'd want to fuck with. And this was 10 years ago.

Another useless "gay TV" factoid: Hawaii Five-O had a pretty good episode where a bunch of prisoners took hostages and demanded the main character meet with them to negotiate. Toward the end, one of the hostage takers started listing grievances that he'd like looked into (he'd already realized he wasn't getting anywhere with hostages, and was being civil at that point), and one of them was something about older homosexuals preying upon young guys who just got into prison and didn't know how to fend for themselves. Two things struck me about that scene:
First, it was 1972 at the LATEST, and this was discussed quite openly on a popular mainstream TV show. I didn't know they really allowed such commentaries back then.
Second: the whole scene, was handled very tastefully (as tastefully as one can handle forced sodomy, of course), and it was portrayed as a "there are some rapists in here and we want something done about it" as opposed to a "fucking faggotts! Kill the bastards!" deal. They actually managed to show it as a problem with rapists, not gays.

And yeah, the Stuart/Carter dynamic on Spin City was simply great. That was some quality TV.

 

[LarzMachine]

I just thought of one or two (it's a weird issue in the books, with semi-implied cloning) more really interesting gay characters. Starting back in the '70s, David Drake started writing military science fiction about a bunch of mercenaries (Hammer's Slammers). The unit was a cross between the 11th Armored Cav (his unit in Vietnam) and the French Foreign Legion right after WWII, armed with ray guns. One of the original characters, Joachim Steuben, was not just openly gay, he was FLAMING gay. However, he was always portrayed as SO bloody good at what he did (he was the Colonel's bodyguard, among other things) that his sexual preferences and other quirks were just an interesting bit of color rather than his defining characteristic. In short, he was a great soldier and bodyguard, who happened to be a flamer. If anything, it served as a nice piece of contrast, because NOBODY (especially in the '70s) expected a gay gunslinger to be one of the most dangerous people in the universe.

Eventually, the character was killed off, and an almost identical character showed up, Johann Vierziger. Same gunslinger character, same pretty much everything, even down to certain quirks like favoring handguns that were works of art. The similarities were intentional, with several characters speculating as to whether he was related to Steuben somehow, or possibly even a clone.

Drake includes quite a few openly gay characters in all his work, and they're always portrayed as humans, not gays. I highly reccommend him to any of you who like military fiction, especially works that include "our kind" in non-exploitative roles. He also included women in combat units (rather visionary, considering the time frame) without making it a "look maw! A soldier with boobies!" freak show. In many ways, he described something of a utopian society, as weird as that sounds, with no discrimination like we see today based on sex, sexual preference, race, or any of that shit.

 

[Queersetti]

I was just reading a review of the DVD release of the first season of Wise Guy, and I was reminded of the strong homoerotic themes that ran through that program.

Unfortunately, the key moment has been changed on the DVD.

There is a scene in the final episode where Ken Wahl and Ray Sharkey are talking, while the Moody Blue's Nights In White Satin plays on the soundtrack. The two men stare deeply into each other's eyes just as the "but I love you, oh, how I love you" part of the song plays.

For some reason, apparently a rights thing, the soundtrack has been changed, and the song is no longer used.

 

[Queersetti]

An addition to the negative side: Sex And The City, which continually portrays gays as over wrought mincing queens.

 

[glamorilla]

Larz: I've never heard of any of the shows you mentioned but I do know gay men began appearing in television programs back in the early 70's: All in the Family,Taxi, and most notably Billy Crystals character of "Jodi" on Soao for being I believe the very first ongoing openly gay character in a prime time series.

What I got sick and tired of seeing was the glut of "coming out" stories that aired through mst of the late eighties and early nineties. At the time it seemed every program had at least one gay episode that either cenetered around someone coming out or dying of aids~there was a beginning and an end but no middle.

Even Will and Grace with a few successful seasons behind it has yet to explore a realistic gay relationship.

A few programs have gone a little further~Thirty Something and Northern Exposure come to mind.

I was a little disappointed in the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willows relationship was reduced to eye candy for straight booys and Jonathon (i think his name was) was played out as a pansey whereas initially I felt the relationship between Willow and Tara was loving and caring and showed other facets of a relationship than just being sexual and the character of "larry"~the star quarterback who came out when he was accused of being a werewolf was great.

From what I've seen the current crop of upcoming programs is disappointing. Two network shows appear to have gay characters in thier cast )Its all Relatoive and Coupling) and neither looks particularly promising.

 

[glamorilla]

Larz: I've never heard of any of the shows you mentioned but I do know gay men began appearing in television programs back in the early 70's: All in the Family,Taxi, and most notably Billy Crystals character of "Jodi" on Soao for being I believe the very first ongoing openly gay character in a prime time series.

What I got sick and tired of seeing was the glut of "coming out" stories that aired through mst of the late eighties and early nineties. At the time it seemed every program had at least one gay episode that either cenetered around someone coming out or dying of aids~there was a beginning and an end but no middle.

Even Will and Grace with a few successful seasons behind it has yet to explore a realistic gay relationship.

A few programs have gone a little further~Thirty Something and Northern Exposure come to mind.

I was a little disappointed in the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willows relationship was reduced to eye candy for straight booys and Jonathon (i think his name was) was played out as a pansey whereas initially I felt the relationship between Willow and Tara was loving and caring and showed other facets of a relationship than just being sexual and the character of "larry"~the star quarterback who came out when he was accused of being a werewolf was great.

From what I've seen the current crop of upcoming programs is disappointing. Two network shows appear to have gay characters in thier cast )Its all Relatoive and Coupling) and neither looks particularly promising.

 

[LarzMachine]

Larz: I've never heard of any of the shows you mentioned

You never heard of Hawaii Five-O? Whoa. That show was HUGE.

What I got sick and tired of seeing was the glut of "coming out" stories that aired through mst of the late eighties and early nineties. At the time it seemed every program had at least one gay episode that either cenetered around someone coming out or dying of aids~there was a beginning and an end but no middle.

Yeah. They rank right up there with the obligatory "rap" episodes shows were doing for a while (where every character would suddenly discover rap and be all gaga for it for an episode, presumably to draw black viewers).

I was a little disappointed in the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willows relationship was reduced to eye candy for straight booys and Jonathon (i think his name was) was played out as a pansey whereas initially I felt the relationship between Willow and Tara was loving and caring and showed other facets of a relationship than just being sexual and the character of "larry"~the star quarterback who came out when he was accused of being a werewolf was great.

Eh. The show was just eye candy from the start and redefined "lowest-common-denominator formula" programming. The movie was OK, but the show couldn't hold my attention for more than 10 minutes. But then, I have a pretty low tolerance for bad goth stuff, so go figure.

From what I've seen the current crop of upcoming programs is disappointing. Two network shows appear to have gay characters in thier cast )Its all Relatoive and Coupling) and neither looks particularly promising.

Are there ANY new shows being hyped (especially on the major networks) that look good? About the only new show I'll make sure to watch is the next Star Trek series (no release date or even name set yet), mainly out of morbid curiosity on just how awful they can get (TNG was genuinely good most of the time, but DS9 was pretty boring until the war, Voyager was too PC to be even remotely watchable -- and they turned the Borg into a bunch of dweebs -- and Enterprise is simply awful) and how exactly they're going to kill off the Federation.

 

[glamorilla]

I'm not much of a trekkie~i did like the next generation tho.

i'm not sure if it ever came to fruition but there were atempts to include a gay cast member. also a few stories revolving around homosexuality were similarily dropp~the premise was the crew encounters a world where same sex coupling is the norm~i do believe the episode was rewritten so that the race of people encountere were all adrodrynous with the "freaks" being those who exhibited male or female characteristics.