Apologies - with strings, or without?

[SweetErika]

When you apologize to someone for your poor behavior or pain you caused, do you expect a response? Will you be upset with them or hold a grudge if they don't acknowledge your apology? What about if they say they don't forgive you, or otherwise fail to give the response you expected or wanted?

Do you think apologies are free, like most compliments or gifts, or are there (even subtle) strings attached?

In other words, what's your goal when you apologize?

 

[silverwhisper]

when i apologize for something, it's b/c i am expressing remorse for the harm my actions have caused. it is therefore important to me that i try to make amends and part of that is the apology being accepted. if their refusal to do so is in bad faith, it doesn't bother me; if it's in good faith however, i find that incredibly difficult and usually work harder to make things right.

ed

 

[Recidiva]

When I apologize, it's because I feel bad about something I've done, or the results of my actions.

If the response is poor, I'll usually let it go. It just means I probably won't be apologizing to that person again. Less interaction, less chance of needing to apologize.

But apology, to me, is something you do for yourself. I think people that don't accept graciously do themselves a disservice.

I don't use apologies to enter into negotiations about who was right or wrong. I just say when I'm wrong and let it go. Otherwise it's a disappointing and diluted action.

 

[SweetErika]

When I apologize, it's because I feel bad about something I've done, or the results of my actions.

If the response is poor, I'll usually let it go. It just means I probably won't be apologizing to that person again. Less interaction, less chance of needing to apologize.

But apology, to me, is something you do for yourself. I think people that don't accept graciously do themselves a disservice.

I don't use apologies to enter into negotiations about who was right or wrong. I just say when I'm wrong and let it go. Otherwise it's a disappointing and diluted action.

This sums up my feelings nicely.

At the core of it, I want to let the person know I recognize I was wrong or hurt them, feel bad and would like to try to make it right. I believe that's the right thing for me to do, and it makes me feel a little better. Doing what's right is enough for me; acknowledgement is nice and appreciated, but I don't expect it or hold a grudge if it's not given because the intent behind the apology isn't to get something in return, and I believe they're free to do whatever they wish with my words/actions. A lack of acknowledgement or a different response doesn't diminish my efforts, IMO.

Ed, out of curiosity, how do you determine whether their refusal is in good or bad faith?

 

[silverwhisper]

i usually can tell when someone tells me why they don't really accept my apology. usually, bad behavior on that person's part essentially gives me free license to stop being on the defensive.

ed

 

[onyxvixen]

For me, an apology is usually also a promise. In acknowledging that I've said or done something wrong and that I regret having done so I am also, by implication, making a committment not to do so again. This is especially true if my actions or failure to act have hurt somebody in any way.

I want that person to ideally acknowledge and respond to my remorse on the one hand but also the renewed hope for better relations and understanding in the future on the other hand.

If somebody doesn't accept an apology and I feel that they still have reason to be offended, I'll go out of my way to demonstrate my desire to make amends. If this is still received with bad grace, I may apologise again but after that point I would usually consider that I'd done all I reasonably could by way of atonement and leave the offendee to their grudge bearing.

People are people are people. Just as I acknowledge that I'm going to be offended by others as I go through life, I also accept that sometimes it will be me who causes upset and pain. Similarly, just as I accept some apologies and not others, I know that when I do sincerely express my regret for something I have said or done, not everybody will accept or be happy with that. Takes two to tango in both cases IMHO

Interesting question though Erika

 

[jerseyman1963]

If I apologize to someone, I don't necessarily expect acceptance or forgiveness. If I screwed up so badly that I caused someone hurt or pain, and an apology is necessary, I realize that perhaps I've irreparably altered the relatioship out of my own carelessness or thoughtlessnes, and there may be a consequence.

On the other hand, if forgiveness is not granted, that's also a measure of how strong the relationship was or wasn't in the first place. I think that just as being able to admit to someone that you were wrong is one of the measures of a real human being, so to is the ability to forgive.

A long time ago I apologized to one of my best friends for something I did. He said that he didn't understand me, but he would take it under advisement. I never forgot that, and I thought his ability to take in what I was saying and accept it, even though he didn't understand it, said a lot about him, and it made our friendship that much stronger over the years.

 

[bobsgirl]

I also apologize for me. If I've done something that's hurt someone, I try to apologize right away. I'm so hyper-sensitive about stuff like that, I apologize when I probably didn't even need to.

Maybe this is picky, but I really don't like it when someone says something like, "I'm sorry for [insert transgression] but you know I get mad when you [insert action here]." To me, that's not even an apology. An apology is unqualified. I've been apologized to where the one apologizing manages to turn it around so I'm the one at fault.

 

[SweetErika]

Maybe this is picky, but I really don't like it when someone says something like, "I'm sorry for [insert transgression] but you know I get mad when you [insert action here]." To me, that's not even an apology. An apology is unqualified. I've been apologized to where the one apologizing manages to turn it around so I'm the one at fault.

Yes, the situation that brought this question to my head involves a person who did exactly that. Not once, not twice, but many, many times, and it's one of the reasons she's out of my life. The 'but...' was never a short one, either; I'm talking an apology followed by pages in email about why she wasn't wrong, and her actions were justified.

 

[Malaria]

Surely it depends on what you're apologising for?

'sorry i cheated'? surely thats followed by strings???

'Sorry I accidently melted your skirt with the iron'? I don't think that needs anymore.

A sincere apology for an accident should never have strings attached.
An apology for something deliberate should be followed with a 'don't do it again' i think anyway

 

[SweetErika]

Surely it depends on what you're apologising for?

'sorry i cheated'? surely thats followed by strings???

'Sorry I accidently melted your skirt with the iron'? I don't think that needs anymore.

A sincere apology for an accident should never have strings attached.
An apology for something deliberate should be followed with a 'don't do it again' i think anyway

The one I have in mind was an apology for a lot of bad behavior that destroyed our relationship, and several others.

The strings are the apologizer expected a response (it was an email), has held a grudge because she didn't get it, and is now trying to interfere with her husband rebuilding friendships with my husband and I many months later because she didn't get it and thinks we have a bad opinion of her because we didn't respond. We certainly don't have warm feelings toward her, but the reality is we just don't care because we're not seeing or talking to her again, and she understands that.

We never read the email apology due to our lack of caring and desire not to risk hearing another "I'm sorry, but this is why my behavior was justified and you made me feel and react poorly" apology from this person. We just got too many of those in the past, and figured she felt better for apologizing, got her closure and the whole thing was done with her. I never imagined she would hold a grudge over not getting a response to her apology, as I thought she had grown beyond that kind of thing, but it's pretty typical of her past behavior and shows she hasn't changed much at all.

Maybe I'm being cold or unreasonable, but I've thought about this a lot and believe it's her job to make peace with herself. Trying to appease her now is against my principles, will ring hollow, and show her she can hold us hostage and get rewarded for bad behavior. We've made the mistake of doing that in the past with her, and I'm not going to get into it again because it seems wrong to me and she's not worth my effort since she's not in our life in any significant way.

 

[Exciteher]

.....
We never read the email apology due to our lack of caring and desire not to risk hearing another "I'm sorry, but this is why my behavior was justified and you made me feel and react poorly" apology from this person. We just got too many of those in the past, and figured she felt better for apologizing, got her closure and the whole thing was done with her. I never imagined she would hold a grudge over not getting a response to her apology, ....

Sounds to me like she is holding a grudge that you did not buy into her "non-apology" and her rationalizations... what you describe is a manipulation disguised as an apology. Insult added to injury IMHO.

We all make mistakes, and when I apologize I offer it simply.

If requested, if the person I injured says something like "How could you do that?" I make sure I reflect to the person that I understand why my mistake was a mistake. Not why the mistake was not a mistake!

And as far as having my apology acknowledged, I hold no expectations, but can only hope for forgiveness.

For me, giving an apology is personnally important to me so I get clear about my mistake. It is so easy to fall into a self serving trap... and tell oneself the lie that one's mistake was not a mistake, so an apology is an antidote for that, also one must forgive oneself...so it seems to me a true apology is offered to self as well the other.

When I get an apology, I can tell when it is sincerely given, and I accept it. But I seldom accept "non-apologies".. although I may explain why I will not accept an apology. Paradoxically I always strive to forgive, apology or not... but I cannot see any value in enabling a persons capacity or habit for self-deception by accepting an ill formed apology...or a manipluation.

 

[SweetErika]

Sounds to me like she is holding a grudge that you did not buy into her "non-apology" and her rationalizations... what you describe is a manipulation disguised as an apology. Insult added to injury IMHO.

Yep, that sounds about right, sadly. The thing that gets me is her response to my lack of acknowledgement proved the apology wasn't genuine and hasn't made significant strides to change her ways. In essence, she's proving herself wrong and our ideas of her right. If she's concerned about our low opinion of her, what does she think doing the same thing that lowered it in the first place would do? I know, she doesn't think, but rather acts on feelings that drive irrational thoughts. It's pretty sad to someone like that continue to self-destruct and try to drag others down with them.

We all make mistakes, and when I apologize I offer it simply.

If requested, if the person I injured says something like "How could you do that?" I make sure I reflect to the person that I understand why my mistake was a mistake. Not why the mistake was not a mistake!

And as far as having my apology acknowledged, I hold no expectations, but can only hope for forgiveness.

Gee, that sounds perfectly rational and reasonable to me. Adult, even.

For me, giving an apology is personnally important to me so I get clear about my mistake. It is so easy to fall into a self serving trap... and tell oneself the lie that one's mistake was not a mistake, so an apology is an antidote for that, also one must forgive oneself...so it seems to me a true apology is offered to self as well the other.

When I get an apology, I can tell when it is sincerely given, and I accept it. But I seldom accept "non-apologies".. although I may explain why I will not accept an apology. Paradoxically I always strive to forgive, apology or not... but I cannot see any value in enabling a persons capacity or habit for self-deception by accepting an ill formed apology...or a manipluation.

Excellent points, and it's nice to hear someone I respect would go a similar route. I try to forgive, too, and I think it had just about fully happened with this person when she pulled this latest stunt. It's not important enough to spend any more effort on though, and I refuse to allow her to have power over me now. Letting go seems a little different than forgiveness, but I think it's a form of it, or at least accomplishes the same goal for me.

 

[Cathleen]

When you apologize to someone for your poor behavior or pain you caused, do you expect a response? Will you be upset with them or hold a grudge if they don't acknowledge your apology? What about if they say they don't forgive you, or otherwise fail to give the response you expected or wanted?

Do you think apologies are free, like most compliments or gifts, or are there (even subtle) strings attached?

In other words, what's your goal when you apologize?

When I offer my apology I try very hard not to have an expectation of a response or of being forgiven. (Being human makes that a test.) Obviously the behavior in question makes quite a difference, there certainly are things that are very difficult to forgive.

The matter of expectation mucks up the situation in my experiences. Expectations are resentments in the making for me. If I'm expecting to be forgiven and I don't receive it, for whatever reason, I'll harbor a resentment and that only hurts me further. I do my very best to offer a sincere apology and then it is out of my hands. Depending upon the circumstance the relationship may need to end (fairly drastic) or maybe it is a new beginning. No matter what the relationship has been changed, for better or worse.

Forgiveness is a gift, to both parties. I make ammends for at least two reasons. One is I have hurt someone and I need to take responsibility for that action. It is deserved and necessary. The other reason is for me, for me to relieve myself of the hurt I feel for causing another pain. It sure doesn't feel good to hurt others and without the gift of forgiveness I'm stuck holding onto to that event, it does damage inside me.

As seen in your example of the person saying 'but you...' shows perfectly that forgiveness is not an excuse. Forgiveness is not forgetting or avoiding either.

Forgiveness is a huge topic. It can include confession, repentance, reconciliation and personal examination. Your question asks what my goal is, the obvious answer is to be forgiven but that is not in my hands.

Recently I have had an issue with a brother. His words hurt me a lot and on the second and third occasions I again forgave him but I did add 'a string'. Thinking about it right now I realize I was about to put that string on me, as if I did something wrong. I didn't. The string I attached was he cannot talk with me on a few issues. We have tried enough and each attempt resulted in my feelings being deeply hurt -- I had enough. I'm not going to drag my butt to the fire again so I put a boundary on a specific topic. If he even attempts I shut it down. I suppose that is his penalty -- I don't know. I do know I do not have to allow others to hurt me on purpose.

It's all in the intention, most of life is all in the intention.

 

[onlyerics]

Interesting thread. But of course, Erika always starts the good ones.

I expect to be forgiven, and I usually am. However, if I know that it will be some time before that person forgives me, I just completely back off for a moment, hoping they won't hold a grudge against me. If they decide to talk to me later on, fine. If they don't, fine. Yet, if I know that the friendship or relationship is too great to lose, then I will try to do my best to make them understand why I did it. I don't like anyone getting or staying angry at me.

This thread has made me (ouch!!!) think! When one of the supervisors at work said an apology for the racial slur, she said that she hoped I won't hold it against her. I told her that I forgave her...but I can't forget it. I also do not talk to her (do not care to either)...she talks to me first. I guess I am still angry. Even if I did forgive her, I still have a grudge and anger towards her.

Do you think that makes sense?

 

[jerseyman1963]

We never read the email apology due to our lack of caring and desire not to risk hearing another "I'm sorry, but this is why my behavior was justified and you made me feel and react poorly" apology from this person. We just got too many of those in the past, and figured she felt better for apologizing, got her closure and the whole thing was done with her.

I misunderstood the original question. I thought you were talking about you apologizing to someone else for something you did, not someone else apologizing to you for something they did. Sounds like the question here is not so much, "When is an apology not an apology?" and more, "When do you decide someone is too immature to be your friend?" It also sounds like you already figured out the answer to that one, and justifiably so. My apologies for misunderstanding. Your posts are generally great, Erika, and I thought this was an odd one. Now it all makes sense.

 

[SweetErika]

I misunderstood the original question. I thought you were talking about you apologizing to someone else for something you did, not someone else apologizing to you for something they did. Sounds like the question here is not so much, "When is an apology not an apology?" and more, "When do you decide someone is too immature to be your friend?" It also sounds like you already figured out the answer to that one, and justifiably so. My apologies for misunderstanding. Your posts are generally great, Erika, and I thought this was an odd one. Now it all makes sense.

It really was a general question originally, and for that it doesn't matter who's doing the apologizing. I've never encountered the type of situation where someone, myself included, apologizes and then holds a grudge when they don't get the response they wanted, found it curious, and wondered if others had or felt the same. For all I knew, I was in the minority with my basic view that apologies should be (and usually are) given freely. Had that been the case, I likely would have decided to alter my plan for dealing with this situation because I really respect and think of you guys as having very logical, balanced, ethical views.

I'm sorry if I didn't communicate the question or my intent well. FWIW, like most of the others, your response answered my question/was what I was looking for in light of the questions in my head, and every reply has been interesting and thought-provoking. I'm not a stickler for staying on the original topic because I always learn so much from the additions and tangents.

 

[EJFan]

When you apologize to someone for your poor behavior or pain you caused, do you expect a response? Will you be upset with them or hold a grudge if they don't acknowledge your apology? What about if they say they don't forgive you, or otherwise fail to give the response you expected or wanted?

Do you think apologies are free, like most compliments or gifts, or are there (even subtle) strings attached?

In other words, what's your goal when you apologize?

i can't be upset with someone if they don't accept an apology. the error is mine and i either must find an appropriate way to make amends or realize the situation is irreperable. i can't go into an apology with any expectations.

for me, the general rule of thumb is that the apology has to fit the misstep. if i can objectively say that i've made the proper apology and it goes unaccepted there's nothing i can do. if, however, it isn't equal to the harm done, i have to find the corrective action which does. for example, "i'm sorry," doesn't fit with shooting my stepmother in the head. understanding my error, empathizing and apologizing for spilling wine should be sufficient.

my goal is to return the relationship to neutral ground. whomever is harmed deserves my every effort in reaching a fair return to emotional stability. if i offer that and it's declined, there's nothing more that can be done. i won't over-apologize and under-apologizing can't be expected to suffice.

 

[silverwhisper]

EJ! damn it, i'm sorry i missed you last night!

ed

 

[EJFan]

EJ! damn it, i'm sorry i missed you last night!

ed

i'm sorry but this apology is unacceptable.