Any insight based on your experience?

[thehermes69]

My wife and I have talked about experimenting sexualy before with another individual (M or F) or couple. I have wanted to explore my bi side forinstance. For her it has always been something to try "later on in the future" while I do not want to wait so long. Now she says as long as they pass an STD test.

However, she seems ambivalent about her actual participation. Would you consider it significant that she actally be there (or not) the first time.

I consider myself bi and she curious.

 

[mjl2010]

My wife and I have talked about experimenting sexualy before with another individual (M or F) or couple. I have wanted to explore my bi side forinstance. For her it has always been something to try "later on in the future" while I do not want to wait so long. Now she says as long as they pass an STD test.

However, she seems ambivalent about her actual participation. Would you consider it significant that she actally be there (or not) the first time.

I consider myself bi and she curious.

I'd say you want to step very carefully. If she's not big on participation, then there may be an issue there. You want to be sure she's not just giving in and saying, "ok, he really wants this. we'll do it once and he'll get it out of his system and be done with it." Because is that's what she's thinking, you're only going to jeopardize your marriage for some sex. She's going to be hurt and not happy afterwards. This needs to be something you both want to do, not just you.

Anyway. Yes. I'd say it was very significant. It just seems to me that if she's not interested, that you'd better be pretty damn careful that she's really ok with it.

MJL

 

[SweetErika]

I'd say you want to step very carefully. If she's not big on participation, then there may be an issue there. You want to be sure she's not just giving in and saying, "ok, he really wants this. we'll do it once and he'll get it out of his system and be done with it." Because is that's what she's thinking, you're only going to jeopardize your marriage for some sex. She's going to be hurt and not happy afterwards. This needs to be something you both want to do, not just you.

Anyway. Yes. I'd say it was very significant. It just seems to me that if she's not interested, that you'd better be pretty damn careful that she's really ok with it.

MJL

I think this is good advice. She may be fearful your relationship will change, or you will have problems because of it. The 'nonmonogamy of any kind equals cheating' mindset our society pounds into us can be very difficult to break away from, as well, and she may be having trouble with that (it's easy to be fine with the fantasy, but the reality of deviating from social norms is often a different story).

As for her participation in the actual event (or yours, if she explores with women, for that matter), the significance depends on the reason for her ambivalence. If she's just not interested in MM action or seeing you with another guy, I'd say you should respect that and do it alone if she fully supports you. I'm like that; if my husband wants to explore, great, as long as he uses condoms (even for oral) and honors our other agreements about honesty and such, but it's just not something I find arousing or feel the need to see.

However, if she's ambivalent because she's afraid of her potential reaction or has other issues with it, it's a good sign you two aren't ready to take that step yet.

The bottom line: You need to communicate with her some more. Ask her why she doesn't seem interested in being there, listen to what she says (and how she says it/acts) carefully, respect her wishes and err on the side of caution. Because she seems open to the idea (at least in theory), you will get your chance to explore in all likelihood if you're patient and generous with your communication and compassion.

 

[bobsgirl]

Two great pieces of advice, and I have nothing to add.

Just please think very carefully. Sometimes fantasies are meant to stay fantasies. Is great sex worth possibly damaging your marriage?

 

[CorsetLvr]

My hubby and I are swingers and through some lifestyle groups we are involved in we end up counseling and mentoring a lot of couples new to the lifestyle. One of the things that we constantly end up saying is that swinging is something you do together or not at all. It should be something that you share and experience as a team with the goal of enriching your relationship.

However, I will say, and in so saying it I am in no way implying that you should your pressure you wife in any way, that I have seen a lot of hesitant wives come to parties and once they see what the lifestyle is really like, their enthusiasm level increases dramatically. I think there are two reasons for the turn around. 1. There is a huge amount of false and misleading information about swinging and other non-mongamous lifestyles in the media and society in general. Please forget anything you ever saw on a porn video or any daytime talk show about the subject.

Swinging, in many ways is a liferstyle ran by women. That is the case among our circle of friends and acquaintances, anyway. Swinging allows women to take control of their sexuality in ways that are simply not possible in society in general. It is a lifestyle that not only supports sexual exploration by women, it encourages it.

I'll leave you with a final thought that we also frequently share with a lot of the newbie couples we talk to: "Swinging can make a good relationship better, but will only make a troubled relationship worse." Obviously, its not for everyone and to the best of my knowledge swinging has never "fixed" anything in a relationship that has issues.

 

[SweetErika]

Corset, out of curiosity, how is MM action perceived in your swinging group/circle?

I ask because I've heard a lot of complaints from bi and curious men in my area. It seems it's not unusual for them to be looked down upon, or even shunned, for wanting to explore with other men in the context of swinging as a couple (so it's not like they're looking to go off with male partners alone). From what I understand, it's most common in clubs/groups, as opposed to people hooking up privately through personals and such.

In contrast, FF action is widely accepted, and even encouraged here.

I'm just wondering if it's likely just an issue in our local swinging community, or if the same idea is common elsewhere.

 

[wordofvirtue]

Ericka, I hope I'm not out of line commenting on your question regarding MM sex in the swinging community. I've been out of the lifestyle for about 6 years, but it was definitely verboten. This was in central Ohio, which is fairly conservative anyway and I suspect that had a lot to do with it.

 

[SweetErika]

Ericka, I hope I'm not out of line commenting on your question regarding MM sex in the swinging community. I've been out of the lifestyle for about 6 years, but it was definitely verboten. This was in central Ohio, which is fairly conservative anyway and I suspect that had a lot to do with it.

Nah, I appreciate your thoughts.

I would think it'd be more likely to be an issue in conservative areas, too. Seattle is NOT one of them, though, so I have a feeling it may go beyond the politics/values of the population, and could be a group norm. If that's the case, I find it to be very interesting because I'd expect swingers to be more openminded on the whole - perhaps more like the kinky crowd (which, in my area at least, and from what I can gather from those who live in many other places, is VERY accepting of different orientations, styles, fantasies, etc.).

Do you know why MM activity wasn't accepted in your group?

 

[CorsetLvr]

Corset, out of curiosity, how is MM action perceived in your swinging group/circle?

Well, if you had asked me a couple of years ago I would have said that male bi's are in fact not generally accepted in the swinging lifestyle. However, the net, like almost everything else has seemed to change that. I think what has happened is that there are bi-male friendly swinging groups that have formed. However, these are made up mainly of couple with a bi male. They are a sub-set of the swinging community as a whole. In general, I think that they are generally not accepted outside of these groups. However, the same could be said for other groups as well, such as swinger/BDSM which are themselves another subset of the community. To answer your specific question, bi males are not accepted at all within our group. Bi males that are interested in gaining entry to the group are basically told that we are probably not what they are looking for.

Part of what you may be seeing are a lot of wannbe single swingers that are generally not accepted to start with. My experience is that they are usually not very understanding of why their "talents" are not desired by couples. Our group is primarily made up of couples only with a few singles that are well known to the group. The fact that these men are bi is just the last nail in the coffin, so to speak. It really comes down to good ole fashioned supply and demand economics. There are perhaps a hundred single men for every couple or single woman looking for them. When you factor in the bi issue, the demand side of the equation shrinks very significantly. If I turn down someone interested in pee sex because I am not into that, does that mean that I am discriminating against that person? Its not like all swingers are open to every sexual variation out there.

 

[SweetErika]

Well, if you had asked me a couple of years ago I would have said that male bi's are in fact not generally accepted in the swinging lifestyle. However, the net, like almost everything else has seemed to change that. I think what has happened is that there are bi-male friendly swinging groups that have formed. However, these are made up mainly of couple with a bi male. They are a sub-set of the swinging community as a whole. In general, I think that they are generally not accepted outside of these groups. However, the same could be said for other groups as well, such as swinger/BDSM which are themselves another subset of the community. To answer your specific question, bi males are not accepted at all within our group. Bi males that are interested in gaining entry to the group are basically told that we are probably not what they are looking for.

Part of what you may be seeing are a lot of wannbe single swingers that are generally not accepted to start with. My experience is that they are usually not very understanding of why their "talents" are not desired by couples. Our group is primarily made up of couples only with a few singles that are well known to the group. The fact that these men are bi is just the last nail in the coffin, so to speak. It really comes down to good ole fashioned supply and demand economics. There are perhaps a hundred single men for every couple or single woman looking for them. When you factor in the bi issue, the demand side of the equation shrinks very significantly. If I turn down someone interested in pee sex because I am not into that, does that mean that I am discriminating against that person? Its not like all swingers are open to every sexual variation out there.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, CorsetLvr.

I totally understand not accepting a lot of single males. The men I know who have mentioned they felt discriminated against for being bi/bi-curious were part of a couple, and not looking to participate as single males. Had they found other male halves of couples who were attractive, accepting and bi themselves, I'd imagine they would have just included MM action in the whole experience of having sex with another couple, just like two women might get together in the context of couples sex.

I don't think these guys were blatant about being bi, either - I'm guessing it was more of something they mentioned in the process of getting to know other couples, just as a bi female would likely say she was okay with FF activity.

Would you turn down everyone who merely liked watersports (or whatever activity that doesn't excite you), but agreed they wouldn't engage in them with you, since you weren't into them? I think that's a better analogy.

To be clear, I don't think swingers are bad, judgmental people, I'm just trying to understand why the group would discriminate against bi males while they accept bi females. I find that to be a curious norm.

***Hopefully thehermes doesn't mind the hijack. It's just when CorsetLvr mentioned swinging, I started wondering how him wanting MM action would work with that, and thinking about what some of the other bi males who had swung had said.

 

[CorsetLvr]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, CorsetLvr.

I totally understand not accepting a lot of single males. The men I know who have mentioned they felt discriminated against for being bi/bi-curious were part of a couple, and not looking to participate as single males. Had they found other male halves of couples who were attractive, accepting and bi themselves, I'd imagine they would have just included MM action in the whole experience of having sex with another couple, just like two women might get together in the context of couples sex.

I don't think these guys were blatant about being bi, either - I'm guessing it was more of something they mentioned in the process of getting to know other couples, just as a bi female would likely say she was okay with FF activity.

Would you turn down everyone who merely liked watersports (or whatever activity that doesn't excite you), but agreed they wouldn't engage in them with you, since you weren't into them? I think that's a better analogy.

To be clear, I don't think swingers are bad, judgmental people, I'm just trying to understand why the group would discriminate against bi males while they accept bi females. I find that to be a curious norm.

***Hopefully thehermes doesn't mind the hijack. It's just when CorsetLvr mentioned swinging, I started wondering how him wanting MM action would work with that, and thinking about what some of the other bi males who had swung had said.

Women tend to be a lot more accepting of another woman being bi then a straight man is accepting of a bi man. Female bisexuality on the other hand has reached a point of almost being considered "stylish." Admittedly, that has a lot to do with how bisexuality is protrayed by the media. When. fo example, was the last time you saw two male celebrities kissing on stage? For better or worse that is just the way men are conditioned in our society. Obviously, unless you have been living in a cave, men are usually turned on by bi women, whether their partner is bi or not. Does homophobia exist within swinging? Yes. Is it more prevalent then in society in general? No, probably at least to some degree less so. I suppose this all goes back to the nature or nurture question. I do see an increasing number of bi men in the lifestyle, based on the personal ads I see on lifestyle websites. Perhaps its simplay a matter of the younger folks coming along being more open to exploring their sexuality. Maybe, over time it will eventually become more accepted. For that to happen however, I think it will require a major shift in society's attitude towards two men being together. I don't see the same evolution in that regard as I do with two women. In addition, I think a lot of people may simply be more honest about their interests on an online ad then talking to someone in person. Maybe there are more bi men in swinging then I am aware of, but within our circle they are less likely to admit it. Perhaps its something they save for the couples they know within their bi male circle of friends. I do think that bi male couples only represent a small percentage of the total community, just like they do in society in general.

 

[lindahotstuff]

I agree with everyone here that swinging is only for people who have really strong relationshiups. It only suits people who don't see sex with others as an emotional thing, but purely as the pursuit of pleasure.
I wouldn't suggest swinging with another couple straight away. Talk to your partner about an MMF or FFM threesome first. It's much easier to find one person you like than a couple, where you may like one but not his/her partner.
The woman may be bi-curious, so introducing another woman can be very pleasurable - for her, don't make your f partner jealous by just wanting to bang the other woman.
Sometimes it's easier to get a male partner. The guy doesn't have to be bi. The guys can be on either side of the woman and pleasure her together. They don't even need to touch. That kind of attention is a big turn on for a woman. It's the way we started, we then progressed to FFM and then to four and moresomes. We are both orally bi, but that came with time.

We always arrive and leave a party or club together, always have same room sex, and always watch for our partner's feelings. The only time we fuck someone else, we are in the same bed as they are so we know precisely what is happening.
But don't force it, if she isn't keen, don't push, it could end your relationship. But if you both try it and like it, you will see all sorts of possibilities to push the envelope in exploring your sexuality.

 

[CorsetLvr]

I thought I would share something that I often refer newbie swingers to:

10 Commandments of Swinging

1. Never attempt to break up a marriage.
2. Always keep dates unless you give ample notice of changing circumstances.
3. Always keep the first meeting on a "no strings attached" basis, but be prepared to swing
4. if it is mutually agreeable or to give an honest answer if something doesn’t click. Never, under any circumstances exert pressure on a partner to swing.
5. Restrict discussions of swinging to known swingers and interested persons seeking information.
6. Protect the anonymity of other swingers by refraining from unauthorized "name dropping".
7. Always maintain the highest standards of personal cleanliness and appearance.
8. Do not engage in any unlawful activity that would discredit swingers as a group.
9. Be friendly and warm with your swing partners, but understand that there is a type of emotional involvement which is properly reserved for a spouse or "primary significant other."
10. Always show respect for the personal attitudes, feelings and "hang-ups" of other swingers.

 

[sc_man]

I don't post on the boards too much, but this thread is very good and shares great information.

I tried the wrong way to get my wife into swinging....and it was a disaster (surprising your wife, by taking her to a swingers club is not the way to go about it). Although we had fantasized about it, she was not willing to act on it.

 

[Joankraig]

IMHO all good advise. I think it is prudent to let the more apprehensive person in the couple (your wife here) "call the shots". It is understandable that anyone is nervous about a new experience. However she needs to be comfortable that the new experience is something she actually does want to do (nerves and all). Good luck.