Any Centrists?

[ChloeTzang]

Should we have HC for all or not?

See. And there's an issue we can all, or almost all, agree on. We're a first world country, adequate health care that doesn't bankrupt you if you get hit by something catastrophic is something we should be able to do. The question is how and that's something that should be bipartisan without question. That it's not is a disgrace. Now we all know obamacare is a failure. How should it be replaced? It's not frigging rocket science. It's just gotta get organized and paid for fairly without going all socialist like the UK disaster of a system.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

"Radical Islamic Terrorism?" Way way WAY more "statistically insignificant" than mass shooters, but it doesn't stop right wing nutters from crying their eyes about that.

It's not about gun crime, but deaths by gun, whether it's criminal, accident, terrorism, mass shooting

You are 25x more likely to die by gun in the US than any other comparable Western country who DON''T have the insane gun laws we do.

As to the people in the red states? They're still outnumbered by the majority of people in the US who want more gun control, not less

If you want to stake out the extreme view, go ahead, but the mainstream, centrist point of view is more restrictions. More background checks. Extreme vetting. No mentally ill getting guns. No assault rifles. Common sense.

Furthermore, it's not just a question of how many people die, it's how utterly useless and pointless and wrong their deaths are--whether it's ONE 7 year old first grader or 10,000

But of course that wouldn't mean anything to a sociopath, so hey

Nope, just pointing out that if the reason for gun control is to cut down on gun crime, there's no need to restrict everyone. If the reason for gun control is to cut gun crimes, well, let's look at the demographic that commits about 90% of them and then, voila, magically we remove their guns by passing a law coz, you know, when you pass a law it's instantly obeyed. Problem solved. Of course it's not going to happen and even if was tried it'd be a complete failure. Witness Chicago.

So if that's not the reason for gun control, what is? Mass shootings? Statistically insignificant. Worried about schools? Let properly trained teachers carry guns.

Me, you know my views on the Second Amendment

And, uh, this was a thread on centrists and things we could agree on. I think empirically we've just established it ain't happening on this issue. Coz where I live most people think like me on that one. So rather than turn White Bulls thread into an argument on gun control that we'll never agree on, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Plenty of ther threads where we can debate ad nauseum on this one.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I take it you don't support the R Healthcare Bill, then?

Trump thinks its amazing. He will sign it, after promising everyone will get HC and it will be SO cheap and SO easy to do.

If he was the "Populist" you Dumb Fucks think he is, he would veto it. He would step up and do what he promised. Oh wait, he's a Con Man about to screw you over

Obamacare is not failing, but it is being sabotaged BY Trump

See. And there's an issue we can all, or almost all, agree on. We're a first world country, adequate health care that doesn't bankrupt you if you get hit by something catastrophic is something we should be able to do. The question is how and that's something that should be bipartisan without question. That it's not is a disgrace. Now we all know obamacare is a failure. How should it be replaced? It's not frigging rocket science. It's just gotta get organized and paid for fairly without going all socialist like the UK disaster of a system.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You're pushing a pretty lame and tired defense for rapid-fire guns in the hands of private citizens. Welcome to the NRA's "who cares about anyone but me?" division.

Rapid-fire guns ?

What a fucking moron.... LOL

As to the people in the red states? They're still outnumbered by the majority of people in the US who want more gun control, not less

Not by a big enough margin to do anything about it....not even close.

And politically? LOL you and your communist shit head friends are fucked. Just move to China where your paradise awaits.

If you want to stake out the extreme view, go ahead, but the mainstream, centrist point of view is more restrictions. More background checks. Extreme vetting. No mentally ill getting guns. No assault rifles. Common sense.

Assault rifles are a very rare/restricted and highly expensive weapon system.

If you're talking about the Democrat lie that AR's and Semi-AK's are assault rifles then you're just perpetuating Democrat lies.

Banning semi-automatic rifles to solve a pistol violence problem isn't common sense....it's emotional knee jerk stupidity.

Obamacare is not failing, but it is being sabotaged BY Trump

LMFAO. keep chugging that Kool-Aid....ACA was a fucking disaster, so much so (D)'s from DC on down have tried blaming it's failure on Republicans.

 

[Chris_Michael]

"Radical Islamic Terrorism?" Way way WAY more "statistically insignificant" than mass shooters, but it doesn't stop right wing nutters from crying their eyes about that.

It's not about gun crime, but deaths by gun, whether it's criminal, accident, terrorism, mass shooting

You are 25x more likely to die by gun in the US than any other comparable Western country who DON''T have the insane gun laws we do.

As to the people in the red states? They're still outnumbered by the majority of people in the US who want more gun control, not less

If you want to stake out the extreme view, go ahead, but the mainstream, centrist point of view is more restrictions. More background checks. Extreme vetting. No mentally ill getting guns. No assault rifles. Common sense.

Furthermore, it's not just a question of how many people die, it's how utterly useless and pointless and wrong their deaths are--whether it's ONE 7 year old first grader or 10,000

But of course that wouldn't mean anything to a sociopath, so hey

Okay, great. So what's your plan to get rid of guns? What are we going to do about moving forward with this? How are we going to safely get the guns out of hands of those who legally own guns as well as those who illegally own guns? Furthermore, what result do you expect after you propose this plan?

I'm genuinely curious. Taking out any other person's view, what is your opinion on the practice of Islam? I'm talking about the most peaceful, law abiding Islam. If Islam were to make up, say... 40-50% of our country and Christianity were to diminish, how does that sit on your mind? I'm just curious as to how much you support the freedom to practice religion.

And to say, "Oh I don't support any religion" is a cop out because you obviously do. That's the same for me, too. I support Christianity as it's a better and less oppressive religion to me. Let me clarify and say that if you want to nitpick and go Westboro Baptist Church, then yeah, hit it with a drone on a Sunday morning. I'd be fine with that. But from my experience living in a place where churches line every street, I can tell you that Christianity is a lot more Liberal in America. What's the worst that can happen? "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL!" "YOUR POKEMON ARE DEMONS!" "YOU'RE BEING CONTROLLED BY SATAN!" "GOD WILL JUDGE YOU ONE DAY!" Okay, I support that because it involves no removing of my head from my body. So, technically... even Westboro Baptist Church gets a pass, I suppose. Hold the drone strike.

Let's take a look at Islam. Women must be covered. Done. Do I even need to continue? Beating women is not only tolerated, it's normal. Apostates? Leaving the church? Will Islam stay liberal enough in the states to control themselves not to remove the head of the individual who leaves? If you were to poll any Muslim no matter how peaceful, you will undoubtedly see results that show that the majority thinks it's SOMETIMES okay to kill in the name of Islam depending on the reason. You will not see that in TODAY'S Christianity.

Carnal Flower, you're too busy tunnel visioning this extremism idea that you oh-so-conveniently leave out the common, modern day, peaceful Islam. And you do it in such a disingenuous way that it really shows you are covering for Islam just to fight Conservative Christians. Otherwise, there is literally no reason whatsoever any sane person would support such an insane ideology.

You once claimed that you were more atheist than I am. I think I agree with you. You should prove that by going to a Mosque and doing whatever ceremony they do to become a Muslim and then denounce the faith soon afterward. That would send a sign that we should have the right to leave a religion if we so desire. I support you 100%. Do it to prove your atheism!

 

[TheWhiteBull]

And, uh, this was a thread on centrists and things we could agree on. I think empirically we've just established it ain't happening on this issue. Coz where I live most people think like me on that one. So rather than turn White Bulls thread into an argument on gun control that we'll never agree on, let's just agree to disagree and move on. Plenty of ther threads where we can debate ad nauseum on this one.

Thank you Chloe.

Only bombs would compare with guns on the ability to kill many quickly and at a distance. I'm all in favor of tight restrictions on access to bombs too.

You're pushing a pretty lame and tired defense for rapid-fire guns in the hands of private citizens. Welcome to the NRA's "who cares about anyone but me?" division.

I notice you still havent elaborated on your baseless description of me despite since posting in several other threads and now this one again.

 

[DrDelirium]

(Trump) sits firmly on the GOP side of pro-business/anti-regulation. If you look at what he's done and said about Dodd-Frank Trump is in favor of making it easier for the same bankers who destroyed his base's 401ks and foreclosed on their houses.

So where do you place Bill Clinton, who actually destroyed Glass-Steagall? It seems to me that deregulating the banks and destroying the middle class is precise center of post-war American bi-partisan consensus, at least among functioning politicians. Rhetoric aside, this is what they've been doing for sixty-some years.

 

[magicalmoments]

The only thing accurate about this poll is that it demonstrates the OP's lack of understanding of political labels.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I take it you don't support the R Healthcare Bill, then?

Trump thinks its amazing. He will sign it, after promising everyone will get HC and it will be SO cheap and SO easy to do.

If he was the "Populist" you Dumb Fucks think he is, he would veto it. He would step up and do what he promised. Oh wait, he's a Con Man about to screw you over

Obamacare is not failing, but it is being sabotaged BY Trump

Nope, I do not think the RINO healthcare bill is anything more than a rushed solution to a complex problem. On the other hand, obamacare is like the Titanic, sinking fast and every insurance company has been taking huge losses on it and pulling out. It was ill-conceived, I'll-thought out and the creation of total left wing idiot retard dumbfucks. The R bill is at best a temp working solution. Why would Trump veto it, it's better than nothing.

And calling us dumb fucks I think kind of defeats what this thread is about, which is consensus issues. Libtards or not, I think you're in agreement that HC needs a solution. The what and the how is what needs that bipartisan approach. Calling us dumbfucks on an issue like this is about as bipartisan as me calling you demonrats. Very emotionally satisfying but certainly not conducive to a consensus. A perfect example of how our govt has got itself entrenched in mutually hostile positions with no compromise in sight.

If a dozen of us on one little board can't do it, how on earth can congress? Because we are digging in. People like me see no possibility of compromise with people like you. Because of that attitude. We see you all, to be blunt, as fucking insane lunatics who've escaped from the asylum. And I've said it before, among people I know I'm fairly moderate. Now if you can tone it down, and if I can, then maybe there is some hope. Neither us may find it as satisfying but then, that's what compromise is all about. I do fear tho that those centrist positions are disappearing fast.

Coz the only results we have seen from compromise over the past 50 years is that the insanity is out of control. We compromise and think that's that but for you it's just a temp line in the sand while you scream and yell and push for the next concession and then the next and the next. Illegal aliens being a case in point. Obama didn't like it so he just ignored the laws on the books. Didn't enforce them. Ignored them. Well, the consensus on that and all the polls agree, is that Trumps very moderate position has majority support. So there's another consensus position. Enforce the immigration laws on the books.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Look into my eyes... you're getting sleepy...turn off the Fake News....Obamacare is a disaster, say it....Obamacare is failing....Obamacare is dead....listen only to me...

Dumb Fuck Nation: Yes, Obamacare is dead...must repeal and replace...Donald is a populist...

Hey, the D's are sitting in Congress waiting for the Rethuglicans to come work on fixing what's wrong. Mitch McConnell himself said, GASP, 'We may have to work with Democrats." A praceable, "centrist" solution to the whole mess is staring everyone in the face, but they won't do it because:

The Negro would have won!

While I am in favor of stricter gun control I don't think it will actually help us much with our mass shooting problem. More with everyday crime.

Nope, I do not think the RINO healthcare bill is anything more than a rushed solution to a complex problem. On the other hand, obamacare is like the Titanic, sinking fast and every insurance company has been taking huge losses on it and pulling out. It was ill-conceived, I'll-thought out and the creation of total left wing idiot retard dumbfucks. The R bill is at best a temp working solution. Why would Trump veto it, it's better than nothing.

And calling us dumb fucks I think kind of defeats what this thread is about, which is consensus issues. Libtards or not, I think you're in agreement that HC needs a solution. The what and the how is what needs that bipartisan approach. Calling us dumbfucks on an issue like this is about as bipartisan as me calling you demonrats. Very emotionally satisfying but certainly not conducive to a consensus. A perfect example of how our govt has got itself entrenched in mutually hostile positions with no compromise in sight.

If a dozen of us on one little board can't do it, how on earth can congress? Because we are digging in. People like me see no possibility of compromise with people like you. Because of that attitude. We see you all, to be blunt, as fucking insane lunatics who've escaped from the asylum. And I've said it before, among people I know I'm fairly moderate. Now if you can tone it down, and if I can, then maybe there is some hope. Neither us may find it as satisfying but then, that's what compromise is all about. I do fear tho that those centrist positions are disappearing fast.

Coz the only results we have seen from compromise over the past 50 years is that the insanity is out of control. We compromise and think that's that but for you it's just a temp line in the sand while you scream and yell and push for the next concession and then the next and the next. Illegal aliens being a case in point. Obama didn't like it so he just ignored the laws on the books. Didn't enforce them. Ignored them. Well, the consensus on that and all the polls agree, is that Trumps very moderate position has majority support. So there's another consensus position. Enforce the immigration laws on the books.

 

[sr71plt]

Nope, I do not think the RINO healthcare bill is anything more than a rushed solution to a complex problem. On the other hand, obamacare is like the Titanic, sinking fast and every insurance company has been taking huge losses on it and pulling out.

Get real. The insurance companies are pulling out of it because they want it to fail. Insurance companies don't lose money.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I don't give a fuck about ANY religion as long as it's out of my face. I don't care what people do in their private lives. If some of those people break the law, be it wife-beating or be it refusing to issue a marriage license to a gay couple, then Lock Em Up. Otherwise, I don't care.

Okay, great. So what's your plan to get rid of guns? What are we going to do about moving forward with this? How are we going to safely get the guns out of hands of those who legally own guns as well as those who illegally own guns? Furthermore, what result do you expect after you propose this plan?

I'm genuinely curious. Taking out any other person's view, what is your opinion on the practice of Islam? I'm talking about the most peaceful, law abiding Islam. If Islam were to make up, say... 40-50% of our country and Christianity were to diminish, how does that sit on your mind? I'm just curious as to how much you support the freedom to practice religion.

And to say, "Oh I don't support any religion" is a cop out because you obviously do. That's the same for me, too. I support Christianity as it's a better and less oppressive religion to me. Let me clarify and say that if you want to nitpick and go Westboro Baptist Church, then yeah, hit it with a drone on a Sunday morning. I'd be fine with that. But from my experience living in a place where churches line every street, I can tell you that Christianity is a lot more Liberal in America. What's the worst that can happen? "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL!" "YOUR POKEMON ARE DEMONS!" "YOU'RE BEING CONTROLLED BY SATAN!" "GOD WILL JUDGE YOU ONE DAY!" Okay, I support that because it involves no removing of my head from my body. So, technically... even Westboro Baptist Church gets a pass, I suppose. Hold the drone strike.

Let's take a look at Islam. Women must be covered. Done. Do I even need to continue? Beating women is not only tolerated, it's normal. Apostates? Leaving the church? Will Islam stay liberal enough in the states to control themselves not to remove the head of the individual who leaves? If you were to poll any Muslim no matter how peaceful, you will undoubtedly see results that show that the majority thinks it's SOMETIMES okay to kill in the name of Islam depending on the reason. You will not see that in TODAY'S Christianity.

Carnal Flower, you're too busy tunnel visioning this extremism idea that you oh-so-conveniently leave out the common, modern day, peaceful Islam. And you do it in such a disingenuous way that it really shows you are covering for Islam just to fight Conservative Christians. Otherwise, there is literally no reason whatsoever any sane person would support such an insane ideology.

You once claimed that you were more atheist than I am. I think I agree with you. You should prove that by going to a Mosque and doing whatever ceremony they do to become a Muslim and then denounce the faith soon afterward. That would send a sign that we should have the right to leave a religion if we so desire. I support you 100%. Do it to prove your atheism!

 

[TheWhiteBull]

Get real. The insurance companies are pulling out of it because they want it to fail. Insurance companies don't lose money.

Once again ignoring me and not responding.

The only thing accurate about this poll is that it demonstrates the OP's lack of understanding of political labels.

How so?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Get real. The insurance companies are pulling out of it because they want it to fail. Insurance companies don't lose money.

Other way round. The risk assessments and sign up projections were flawed. All the insurance companies have been taking hits so they're pulling out coz yep, they don't want to lose money.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Once again ignoring me and not responding.

How so?

Lol. You are now experiencing the reality of why centrist positions no longer exist. There is no willingness to step back and exercise tolerance and to compromise. And to heck with it, why should it be one sided every time. You are now staring the reality of left wing intolerance and in the face and it's not a pretty sight. So come on over, pull up a chair, put your feet up, open a beverage of your choice and relax coz, well, we on the right are coming back big time now. This is just the start.

Next, fix the education system. Charter schools, vouchers, no more common core, whatever it takes. Betsy's a bit to much of a wuss for me but I guess she's a good compromise. For now.

Btw, I ticked moderate conservative.

 

[sr71plt]

Actually, this is pretty much an example of extreme rightists only here to try to force their crazy views down everyone's throat. I know that my refusal to engage and not really caring what they (and you) choose to think is sticking a pin in their reason to be here and rant. Tough.

The bottom line is that I think that folks who think only of themselves (including Trump Chumps who think they are supporting Trump because he's "taking care" of them when he's actually screwing them) and exhibit that on these boards are the scum of the earth and I have no need to engage with them. Most of them are parasitic drones here anyway and only posting politics on a porn board because they can't hold their own on actual political discussion Web sites.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Actually, this is pretty much an example of extreme rightists only here to try to force their crazy views down everyone's throat. I know that my refusal to engage and not really caring what they (and you) choose to think is sticking a pin in their reason to be here and rant. Tough.

The bottom line is that I think that folks who think only of themselves (including Trump Chumps who think they are supporting Trump because he's "taking care" of them when he's actually screwing them) and exhibit that on these boards are the scum of the earth and I have no need to engage with them. Most of them are parasitic drones here anyway and only posting politics on a porn board because they can't hold their own on actual political discussion Web sites.

Well, I got barred from Stormfront so that sucked. They didn't like some chink arguing with them. Lol. Breitbart is fun tho and I'm so moderate their it's hilarious. Come on over, you'd have a lot of fun. Most of the Leftie sites aren't that tolerant, they kick you out if you don't do truthspeak. Here and Breitbart are some of the few sure it's open season from all sides. Besides, who has the time. I bounce into lit every day and this little forum is entertaining and occasionally even educational. And there's so few of us we all know each other, metaphorically at least although I'm not sure that's the right word.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Wrong. The Rs just didn't want to fund the high risk corridors, thereby providing risk assurance to keep the insurance companies in.

Marco Rubio: "We wiped out the Obamacare bailout fund for insurance companies."

They couldn't stop the ACA in the courts, so they did their best to sabotage it.

Just like Trump, threatening to "withhold federal funds" from sanctuary cities or any other thing he disagrees with.

Other way round. The risk assessments and sign up projections were flawed. All the insurance companies have been taking hits so they're pulling out coz yep, they don't want to lose money.

 

[TheWhiteBull]

Actually, this is pretty much an example of extreme rightists only here to try to force their crazy views down everyone's throat. I know that my refusal to engage and not really caring what they (and you) choose to think is sticking a pin in their reason to be here and rant. Tough.

The bottom line is that I think that folks who think only of themselves (including Trump Chumps who think they are supporting Trump because he's "taking care" of them when he's actually screwing them) and exhibit that on these boards are the scum of the earth and I have no need to engage with them. Most of them are parasitic drones here anyway and only posting politics on a porn board because they can't hold their own on actual political discussion Web sites.

Except that once again this is not really a response. Things Ive said just in this conversation: Im center-left, Im an atheist opposed to Christian interference, that I didnt vote Trump and am concerned about his businesses' influence on his politics, and that I am in favor of stricter gun control. If you want more examples of "liberal credentials" I suppose I could. But this is not an example of a rightist doing anything to you, its you doing this to yourself. Accusing somebody who's on your side of not being on your side for no discernible reason at all.

 

[dan_c00000]

So where do you place Bill Clinton, who actually destroyed Glass-Steagall? It seems to me that deregulating the banks and destroying the middle class is precise center of post-war American bi-partisan consensus, at least among functioning politicians. Rhetoric aside, this is what they've been doing for sixty-some years.

Don't forget Clinton's awful crime bill. Also, remember that the healthcare bill that was proposed in 1993 was pretty progressive, especially when it came to mental health.

Obama too was a centrist considering that the ACA is an idea from the Heritage Foundation.

And yes, you're right, both parties have been basically center-right parties. They're more concerned with pleasing their major donors and the rich than they are with helping out the middle class and poor.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I don't give a fuck about ANY religion as long as it's out of my face. I don't care what people do in their private lives.

Is a staunch socialist Democrat who wants a godlike uber government all up in everyone's private lives forcing them to live how she thinks they should LOL

 

[lovecraft68]

A true centrist would think you were talking about the Republicans over the last eight years and would be more balanced in discussing the issue.

Not at all...I'm centrist because the issue is both parties are horrible. Right now the Dems are trying to pretend they care about the people and opposing the Republicans...who for the last four years played the same game.

The parties used to come together when necessary for the better of the country and compromise.

Now? Its everything the other party does is crap and gets shot down and that's on both sides.

I admit that as I'm pro choice, pro women and LGBT rights I'd probably prefer the dems in power....that and I think the religious right is the lowest form of scum in political parties, but the liberal faction of the Dems are getting close. the same self righteous we want you to think our way, but in a different direction.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The parties used to come together when necessary for the better of the country and compromise.

Now? Its everything the other party does is crap and gets shot down and that's on both sides.

That's because the "compromises" are done in the dumbest ways possible resulting in shit that gets turned into a scam or winds up just total dog shit.

So people are fed up with that shit.

If compromise was being done right we wouldn't be doing this corporate socialism bullshit that we have now like ACA, green energy policy etc.

ACA for example.....

The compromise should be that the indigent get a public option, totally socialized public HC. Run that shit like a fuckin' Army hospital.

In exchange the private sector is de-regulated and defunded, opened up to all just short of public safety regs . The ONLY medical centers getting public funding at that point will be the public medical centers...everyone else is going to have to fuck for their own bread on the free market otherwise.

The indigent get their public HC, the elites get to keep their top of the line private HC and the middle class can choose where to spend their money.

THAT would be functional compromise. But no....because greedy corrupt shitheads.

 

[DrDelirium]

But no....because greedy corrupt shitheads.

And there we have it.

 

[TheWhiteBull]

That's because the "compromises" are done in the dumbest ways possible resulting in shit that gets turned into a scam or winds up just total dog shit.

So people are fed up with that shit.

If compromise was being done right we wouldn't be doing this corporate socialism bullshit that we have now like ACA, green energy policy etc.

ACA for example.....

The compromise should be that the indigent get a public option, totally socialized public HC. Run that shit like a fuckin' Army hospital.

In exchange the private sector is de-regulated and defunded, opened up to all just short of public safety regs . The ONLY medical centers getting public funding at that point will be the public medical centers...everyone else is going to have to fuck for their own bread on the free market otherwise.

The indigent get their public HC, the elites get to keep their top of the line private HC and the middle class can choose where to spend their money.

THAT would be functional compromise. But no....because greedy corrupt shitheads.

Would you see a public insurance option as a good middle-of-the-road approach if it wasn't ran like a tax-payer program but more like an actual insurance company? It would be opt-in or opt-out and if you opt in you pay if you opt-out you don't? Basically just have the public option as a low-cost choice available among all of the other choices on the market?