Another Room

[Amy Sweet]

for civil discourse about paganism.

No fighting please.

(and yes, I realize that I am not innocent.)

 

[Guest]

Why does there need to be another one? Not that I read the other two, or was it three?

Not complaining, merely asking. Did the others get bogged down?

Lou

 

[Amy Sweet]

Happy Yule!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

ok...

 

[Amy Sweet]

I love christmas- so i just do Chrismas.

But I sneak little things in without really drawing atttention. Choose christmas cards w/ a stag on them for example. Hang misltletoe. Oh not much difference! Debate how believing in Santa is any different than believing in God.devil:

Plus, I believe in saying merry christmas to everyone! Christmas is a wonderful holliday that's Celebrated all over the world. I think it untites us over time and space. It's a christian holliday, a pagan holiday and secular holiday.

I just pick and chose the symbols of the season I like the best. (and I love nativity scenes by the way)

 

[Amy Sweet]

Why does there need to be another one? Not that I read the other two, or was it three?

Not complaining, merely asking. Did the others get bogged down?

Lou

Yes.

door back to the room with fighting

 

[Edward Teach]

What? Does that paganism toast your brain after a while?


Stup Dity

 

[Amy Sweet]

ok...

I'm trying to build a house here!

For instance, would you like to go to the dining room?

dining room door

 

[TheEarl]

What? Does that paganism toast your brain after a while?


Stup Dity

What are you saying about paga...!!!

Oh, right. No fighting in the house that Sweet built .

The Earl

 

[Amy Sweet]

I love christmas- so i just do Chrismas.

on this topic:

My Pagan Christmas
by Jonobie Ford
Email: jonobie@hotmail.com



When I first began identifying myself as neo-Pagan, I was, like many newcomers, a voracious reader of books, websites, and all things neo-Pagan. I read about the Wheel of the Year; I read rituals; I read essays. I began my first trip around the neo-Pagan Wheel of the Year. And then, sometime as my religion became a bit more comfortable and a bit less "bookish", I realized I wasn't keeping all the holidays anymore. Furthermore, I was unwilling to give up my cultural holidays, such as Christmas and Easter. I didn't have the energy to keep both all my beloved cultural holidays and all of my new religions' holidays. It felt, to me, as if my life was splitting into two segments - a religious segment, and a secular segment.

By choice, I'm a solitaire, which gives me a lot of freedom on when, and how, to celebrate holidays. This also means that I don't have a religious community physically present around me, which means that the culture I live in, so to speak, is pretty typically American - a melting pot of different religions, traditions, and backgrounds. At wintertime, because of both that freedom and that isolation, I celebrate Christmas. I'll participate wholeheartedly in Christmas traditions - the feasting, the annual Festival of Lights in my town, the manic ripping open of presents at some ungodly hour in the morning on December 25, and sometime, a ritual to acknowledge the winter season and return of the light.

Why would I choose to abandon the old holiday of Yule and instead celebrate a holiday that is linked to Christianity? Because I believe that Christmas is the rightful heir to whatever ancient holiday our ancestors practiced. That holiday, once claimed by the Christians, has also been claimed by secular America and has been changed so much that it has, for many people, little to do with Christianity at all. It is, essentially, a cultural winter festival, complete with its own imagery - a blend of ancient Pagan imagery from a variety of cultures, Christian religious symbolism, and current cultural folklore and mythology. In short, it is a product of the weathering forces of time - it is such an important season precisely because it is an old, organic product of our cultures and our ancestor cultures. It is a holiday that belongs to none and can be celebrated by many. For example, it's common for different elements of society to de-emphasize aspects of this winter festival that are less important to them. My parents, for example, completely ignored the Christian aspect of the holiday. Many Christians avoid the secular aspects.

Historical Pagan religions were often so intertwined with culture that it was difficult to separate the two. Even today, some languages do not have the sharp division between the words "religion" and "culture" that English has, instead having only one word that represents both. The advantage of this is that holidays that are both cultural and religious in nature have each aspect support the other for a unified whole. One's religion is not set against the culture - it is an organic part of it. Non-Pagan religions have often tried to separate themselves from society and culture (and hence, the festivals of such society and culture), to attain purity or to avoid involvement with the material world. This has advantages, too - namely, creating a stronger religious group identity. But it has the disadvantage of isolationism.

In my practice, there isn't anything inherently special or magical about festival dates. Rather, they are times that I set aside to devote to my relationship with my Gods and nature, and times where I am trained to be especially mindful of the sacredness of all that is around me. Because my practice emphasizes cultural ties, I choose to celebrate the same holiday as my tribe - that is, my community. Since the community I live in primarily celebrates Christmas, instead of Yule, I celebrate Christmas. An important aspect of my faith is the blending of my religion and my every day life into a seamless whole.

As a Pagan in America, adopting American cultural holidays as my religious holidays has many advantages. For example, I can celebrate Christmas with my coworkers, my friends, my secular parents, and my Christian husband and his parents. While we all celebrate for different reasons, our communal celebration brings us together, instead of dividing us by religious lines, and the culture we all live in supports and reinforces all our celebrations. And because I've celebrated Christmas my whole life, each trip through this portion of the year has built-in triggers that remind me of previous trips. Seeing things such as men in Santa suits, Christmas trees, and carolers are all things that I've been trained, since I was young, to associate with the word "Christmas" and all of the imagery, generosity, and emotions that are attached to that word. That's the value of continuing traditions. I simply can't bring myself to replace this wonderful holiday, with all of its culturally supported rituals and traditions, with a new name, date, and traditions - simply because the new holiday's date and name are older.

Regardless of my religion, I would celebrate Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, and birthdays. For me, these form, along with the four Fire Festivals, integral parts of my personal Wheel of the Year. I've celebrated a variant of this Wheel of the Year my entire life - becoming neo-Pagan only added the Fire Festivals and added a religious dimension to my already-celebrated holidays. So Christmas is the winter festival of my childhood, with added devotion to my Gods, and I'll continue celebrate my springtime festival with the traditions and name of Easter.

I'm not trying to argue that those who celebrate Yule for theological reasons shouldn't. I realize that, particularly for many Wiccans, celebrating the mythology of the Goddess and the God is an integral part of their religious practice. Others believe that solstices are times of magical power or that it is important to celebrate a balanced eight holidays. However, there is also a great deal of satisfaction gained in creating one's own personal Wheel of the Year - one that is supported by whatever culture you live in, and one that ties old childhood traditions with one's religion. There's no reason that neo-Pagans cannot celebrate, as part of their religion, holidays that have been touched by Pagan, Christian, or cultural influences. Our Pagan ancestors were often quite comfortable adapting secular customs or other religions' customs into their religious celebrations. Shouldn't we feel comfortable doing the same?

http://www.witchvox.com/holidays/yule/paganchristmas.html

go here for *many* more ariticles about Yule/Christmas.

 

[woodnymph_O]

I love that article

Thanks for the posting
But I confess I'm scared of the dining room door.lol