Another cheating question

[Eilan]

I thought about posting this in SweetErika's thread, but I figured that it would be too much of a hijack.

My husband has a coworker who's a little over a year into his second marriage. During his first marriage, he cheated repeatedly on his ex. In fact, when their son was born, she had to spend an extra couple of days in the hospital because of complications. He wasn't at the hospital with her and the baby because he was too busy fucking around on her. (He's admitted this--I'm not making assumptions.) This was neither the first--nor the last--time that he cheated on her.

Last year, back when this guy was first married, my husband, as his supervisor, had to warn him to stay away from a young woman who's in a similar line of work (but not technically a coworker), at least while they were both on duty.

From what my husband's heard through the rumor mill at work, this guy and his second wife are now having problems, though nobody knows the gory details. Given his history, I wouldn't be surprised if he were cheating on his new wife.

Unfortunately, this is one of those "Why?" questions that doesn't have an easy answer, but I'm gonna ask, anyway: Why get married if you KNOW you can't stay faithful?

I don't necessarily want to get into the biology of monogamy, nor am I referring to the people who slip up and learn from their mistakes. I'm talking about the people who enter into what's intended to be an exclusive relationship with no intention of being exclusive. (I'm NOT referring to swinging, open marriages, or any agreement that the couple decides upon--as a couple.)

Your thoughts?

 

[pinkstarfish]

My thoughts

* It's not really your problem (or business) and gossiping sucks anyway.

* I would not have coffee and a bagel with these people.

People make bad choices over and over, some never learn.

 

[Eilan]

It's not really your problem (or business) and gossiping sucks anyway.

Yeah, but on the other hand, had he been fucking around (cheating or not) during work hours, then it would have been my husband's problem AND business--whether he wanted it to be or not, because he's this guy's supervisor.

I would not have coffee and a bagel with these people.

I agree.

People make bad choices over and over, some never learn.

I agree. I guess I'm interested in what motivates them to do so, even though there's not necessarily a simple explanation. Or even one explanation.

 

[EJFan]

it's all about change.

people think that marriage will change them... this is an ooooooold philosophy that's never worked. sometimes one partner thinks they can change the other by marrying them, and other times one partner thinks they'll change themselves by getting married. the reality of it is that marriage doesn't change squat... it just bonds two pre-existing circumstances together in the eyes of the law/church.

of course, the other possibility is that this PARTICULAR guy is so out of touch with himself that he doesn't even realize he has this fidelity problem

 

[bisexplicit]

Who knows if he sees it as a problem?
You get a wife at home to take care of you, clean up after you, cook your meals, raise your children...and you get to fuck around on the side. Perhaps to him it seems like a great life plan.

 

[rcuhljr]

Who knows if he sees it as a problem?
You get a wife at home to take care of you, clean up after you, cook your meals, raise your children...and you get to fuck around on the side. Perhaps to him it seems like a great life plan.

Faith in humanity--

 

[Cathleen]

I think bisexplicit has made a good point. Some people want to be married so they are a part of conventional society. It isn't about love everlasting to some. A person I know looks at marriage as a sort of extention of living at mom and dad's home. They have clean clothes, good food, someone to be with while at home, etc. If the price they pay is to go out to dinner a few times a month, have the appearance of living and being a part of the household then it's a good deal for them. They can still go out with friends, have their playtime and not rock the boat.

Some people won't admit that they are incapable of being faithful and some spouses are willing to play the game. I don't get it but I've seen it happen. I guess people are willing to close their eyes or play the game just so they can have what they want. Seems insensitive and immature to me.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

Unfortunately, this is one of those "Why?" questions that doesn't have an easy answer, but I'm gonna ask, anyway: Why get married if you KNOW you can't stay faithful?

I suppose there's always the possibility that if things had been going better in the relationship, these people wouldn't be cheating. If even that explanation is wrong, then it's basically a marriage of convienience, at least from one person's perspective. I pity their partner.

I personally can't imagine getting married to someone with the conscious decision of bar hopping later on to pick up a piece of ass on the side. But I know there's people out there like that.

 

[Ricwilly]

Because they can.

 

[Eilan]

Good points, everyone.

I can't imagine being the good spouse and playing along, though I know that some people, particularly when it comes to issues like financial security and public image, might look the other way. It would really take a toll on my self-esteem.

What I found amusing about my husband's coworker is that his ex ended up getting fed up with his behavior. When she left, he HONESTLY couldn't understand why. I'd like to hope that he learned his lesson the second time around, particularly now that there's a baby to consider.

 

[Cathleen]

As they say every pot as a lid. For every addiction there is an enabler... that kind of thing. I have a feeling one of my sibblings are somewhat like that - like the marriage is a contract or deal. I don't think they went into with those thoughts at all but as I've seen their behavior as a couple evolve it looks like a comfortable arrangement (comfortable being relative).

I think she gets her play time outside the marriage (i.e. affairs) and he gets to travel the world. He may cheat too but it doesn't seem like that is his prize. It's odd, they travel differently, vacation differently - even when they come back 'home' they often don't stay at the same place. He usually stays with one of us (his siblings) and she at her mothers. It's only about 30-45 minutes in travel time but, they do different things on vacation too. They have two children, one travels a lot with my brother and the other stays with her mom. It is a different set up that apparently, with adjustments, works for them.

Beats me...

 

[EJFan]

...cook your meals, raise your children...

see... this is where my marriage went wrong... i expected her to raise the meals and cook the children...

some things i just have to have written down.

 

[Eilan]

Who knows if he sees it as a problem?
You get a wife at home to take care of you, clean up after you, cook your meals, raise your children...and you get to fuck around on the side. Perhaps to him it seems like a great life plan.

I remember, when I was a college student taking Freshman Comp, a little essay called "I Want a Wife" or something along those lines. Interesting thing, though, is that it was written by a woman, and what you've mentioned above were among the reasons that the author cited for wanting a wife. I'll have to see if I can dig that up.

 

[Eilan]

Found it! That was easier than I thought.

Sorry for getting things off track.

 

[mrmgp]

Men who cannot remain faithful to a woman who demands monogamy have no business marrying that woman in the first place. Period.

 

[Quoll]

see... this is where my marriage went wrong... i expected her to raise the meals and cook the children...

some things i just have to have written down.

Some days I just can`t help myself.

 

[Ezzy]

I guess I'm interested in what motivates them to do so, even though there's not necessarily a simple explanation. Or even one explanation.

Well the next time you see them you should ask them, and then please report the answer back to us, so the rest of us can share in their wisdom?

 

[bisexplicit]

Found it! That was easier than I thought.

Sorry for getting things off track.

Exactly, who wouldn't want a wife?

Its like having a second mother, almost. And if thats your mindset, if you still believe in very traditional gender roles - then its easy for you not to see a problem with how you're living.

 

[EJFan]

Some days I just can`t help myself.

i'm disappointed in this sudden burst of morality and values.

 

[Exciteher]

Unfortunately, this is one of those "Why?" questions that doesn't have an easy answer, but I'm gonna ask, anyway: Why get married if you KNOW you can't stay faithful?

So many people in this culture have been socialized to think that marrage defines the only "acceptable" context in which sexual and emotional expression is valid. Look how even "living together" still has a widespread negative connotation. I think the observations by many here that people get married because they feel they need a "conventional" relationship are right on, so many couples I know got married because of pressure they felt from their familys etc, also the law tends to push people in that direction. The need to 'fit in".

Add to this that a lot of people don't really take the time to look at themselves, or admit to themselves what they really want., and within relationships it is so often the case that the parties have a very hard time communicating about sex in general. Jeez, so many people have such a problem just teaching their kids about sex. This is especially true for people who have a "sex is bad" foundation on which their sexual identity is built.

So I think people get a mistaken impression that they have few choices. They are conflicted about their own desires, for many their natural makeup comes in conflict with their belief's and value systems. On the one hand, they have nonmonogamous inclinations, and on the other because they judge themselves and those feelings as "bad" or "wrong".. and push that into a corner instead of looking honestly at that. So they keep entering into what they judge as the only "acceptable" relationship.. a monogamouus marrage... but they are not really "wired" that way. And they will not or cannot get congruent with that. "I am a sinner...so I cannot help sinning."

Men and women are both prone to this, and both will get into marrages, hoping that some outside force will change their evil selves...("this one will be different") and then they they end up acting out all their unresolved internal conflicts in affairs because these needs they try to disown come to the surface...any way they can. Again, what one resists, persists.

A common way for people to resolve internal conflicts is to compartmentalize, so they compartmentalize their needs and actions.. from their values. Yeah, they may know it is "wrong" to stray.. yet there is an almost irresistable internal pressure to do so, and the compartmentalization makes rationalizations ever so much easier. Also, these compartmentalizations are a reason these people do not KNOW thay they are going to be unfaithfull. One part of the person KNOWS one thing, another part knows something else, and if this something else is judged to be "bad".. it will be pushed out of awareness.

Yes, there are people that are control freaks, and they want to have their cake and eat it too... and the Peter Pan types who marry because they want a mom/maid.... is that a guy thing? I think so. But I think it is more complicated than that for most people, women especially, who keep repeating a pattern of getting into marrages and then cheating.

I think it is difficult for people to realize that commitment, love AND nonexclusivity can co-exist, because they have never really challenged their values and beliefs about that, and this society strongly discourages any such radical examination.
Also spirituality is very important ... yet many people have never really examined the prexisting beliefs they inherited from childhood or thought that through for themselves either.

I think a need for a spiritual under pinning may be as strong as sexual needs are... so if your spiritual beliefs or spiritual habits...are at odds with your natural emotional inclinations.. it is easy to get stuck. If you believe you have no choices, ...you cannot make a real change, all you can do is try to manage your internal conflicts and repressions.

 

[Eilan]

Well the next time you see them you should ask them, and then please report the answer back to us, so the rest of us can share in their wisdom?

So how do I go up to someone that I've never spoken to and ask him to divulge his secrets?

Never mind. That's a separate thread.

 

[Rusty Scupper]

As a previously married guy who has been cheated on I can only offer these comments. I wasn't aware that the relationship was "that bad" so I think it boils down to communication. If there is poor communication in the relationship it goes down hill from there. Since I have found out I have struggled with why she didn't get out of the relationship first. I can only speculate that she wanted the financial security (best of both worlds).

If you read most of the forums you can probably answer all of the questions with...communicate with the partner.

I now find myself starting a relationship with someone who is also getting out of a marriage. I have stuck to my guns and won't be intimate until she has moved out and filed papers. I haven't gone this long without sex since I was 16 so what is a couple more days, months...

 

[Eilan]

Exciteher, that was VERY well-said.

I can only speculate that she wanted the financial security (best of both worlds).

That's understandable, to an extent, particularly if a spouse (usually the wife, but not always) has left/never entered the workforce to stay at home and run the household.

 

[Melesse]

As you can likely yell if you read the other cheating thread, I'm one of those people who is "not wired that way" for monogamous marriage. I got married anyways, because it was worth it to marry KBL, and there were indications it might not always be Monogamous. We're still talking about it, but there're promising indicators it will soon not be (soon meaning a couple years lol).

Would I have married her if she had told me no, that was never going to happen? I dunno, it would be a tough call. Honestly though? If she decided she wasn't into it, I might have to divorce her. It would be better than cheating on her, but I don't think I could stay faithful. I just don't think it's an option.

Melesse

 

[Eilan]

In light of recent "activity"

Bump for further discussion (or not). Just change spouse to significant other, if you like.