Angry, Divorced dad

[lovechild27]

My parents are recently divorced. To make a long story short, my mom left my dad for a man she met on the net. They separated two days after last Christmas and were divorced mid july.

I spend the vast majority of time at my guys house. I come here to see my dog and hang out with my bros. I have two teenage brothers...15 and 17. They are at home all the time with my dad. Tonight over dinner, I found out the things my dad has been telling them.

I guess my dad is always angry and bitching about my mom in front of their friends ( Fuck your mom...shes a bitch...she has no regard for my life...the dumb bitch...), he tells my bros he could loose his job any minute (this is so NOT true...his job is more stable now than before!) and if that happens they will be poor and my bros can blame my mom...he told them that they need to meet my moms new bf (which, for many reasons, we are all against doing) so my dad can look better in front of his friends...he will ask questions about the time they had with my mom when she takes them out and if they say they had fun he gets pissed off and will say things like, "well you just wait until she marries that sack of shit shes dating..think you will have fun then?" He wants us to like her and hate her and nothing is ever good enough.... I could go on because there is more, but Im sure you get the picture.

As you can imagine...this is SO depressing to have to be around. Me and my bros cant stand to be around anyone in my family anymore and are already dreading the holidays when we have to face them all. No one cares about how we feel. I have been told by both sides of my family that the other side doesnt like me. I have been told to forgive my mother so Im not a bad person and while I love her, Im not ready to. (my brothers have been told the same).

I dont know what the hell to do anymore. I try to talk to my dad and it all goes back to my mother and how she did him wrong. he will NOT get over this. I want him to talk to someone, but he has already told me many times he rather talk to me, which I CANT deal with anymore. And my poor kid bros get the ass end of things.

Any advice...or nice words...SOMETHING. Im at a loss. I know I cant protect my brothers...and I know I cant fix it all. I just...I dont know anymore.

 

[borusewicz]

Depending on the size of town you live in, there might be a support group type thing that your Dad could go to, or maybe if he atttends church then he could talk to the Pastor/Minister, or even go to counseling.

The divorce is still pretty fresh, so maybe once he gets out and mingles and meets some new female friends his actions might change. Try to get him to do some social things. Sitting at home venting to your Bro's friends won't help.

If all else fails then you and your bro's need to sit down together ahd plan out what to say to your Dad (and Mom for when you are there if she is doing similar things.) Then the 3 of your should sit your dad down and confront him with this and how it makes you feel and that you don't apreciate it (but you still care for him).

There is no reason for the 3 of you to let this continue and ruin the relationship you have with your parents in the future. Yet, the divorce is still recent, so it does take time.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[lovechild27]

Thanks, Boru. I have urged him to go to a group therapy for men in his situation. He wont go. He is getting out on his own but I dont know about women. I would love for him to meet someone else.

Ill see if my bros wanna chat with him...they are sorta closed up to that stuff but I can try...I have talked to him but maybe if all of us did it could help.

 

[Metal_Monkey]

My first reaction/gut reaction is to tell your father to grow up. Regardless of how wronged he feels, and how your mother's betrayal is a tragic affair for everyone involved, venting to his children and his childrens' friends is not the right or mature thing to do. He needs to take control of this, and you might have to be the person to tell him. The next time he tells you he'd rather talk to you than a psych/counsellor (sp?) - tell him NO. You shouldn't have to listen to this, you're his daughter not his psychiatrist. Have a couple business cards on you, too. If he has a name to stare at, he might just call the number underneath it.

As for the talk everyone plans to have with him - remain as non confrontational as possible. It sounds like any conversation won't last long if you tell him "You're always complaining. You're making our lives miserable with your bitching!" Instead, try a different approach, like "We get upset when you're upset." "Our friends feel uncomfortable coming to the house when you're not in a good mood." "I feel like I can't talk to you anymore because our conversations are always about mom." The key is to avoid the word "you" as much as possible.

I'm sorry that your parents' marriage is over, and for the pain everyone went through. But the divorce is final now, and it's time for your dad to stop carrying on the way he has been. These things can be dealt with maturely, and with grace. It may not be easy, but your dad needs to try for the sake of his children, if not himself.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

wow, this sounds like my situation.

My parents only recently divorced as well, after 27 years of marriage. My mom left my dad, though not for anyone else but herself, as she was horribly unhappy in the marriage. Anyway, when I go visit Dad, the subject always gets to how bitter and angry and sad he is, about how my mom was fickle, how she betrayed her vows (they're Catholic), etc. Last time I was there, he slapped down some of my mom's old love letters in front of me, told me to read them, and then asked how she could be unhappy with letters like that. (they were written 28 years ago, so y'know, the unhappy might have been a newer feeling, perhaps.. *sarcasm*). I told him I would not read the letters, and that I could not explain my mother, as I am not her. And I told him that I don't feel comfortable having to talk about her all the time, because she's my mom and he's my dad. If I defend her, I hurt him, if I speak against her, I don't feel right, as I've waited for this divorce since I was 11. I think this is the right thing. And he hates that I think that way.

Oh it's just a mess. I dread the upcoming holidays, too.


So while I can't give you tons of support, as I'm also at a loss, I can empathize, and my PM box is always open, if you want to talk.

 

[SensualCealy]

Even though Ive not gone through a parental divorce Im certainly suprised that they have made it to 43 years.

I agree I think you as the adult should step in and say, you arent picking sides, you love them both for giving you life but you arent going to dog them to satisfy the other.

As for your brothers, do you have room for them to move in with you? As both your parents to pay support to you and you can at least give them a blanced home life until Dad gets his life on track.

I like the idea of having the business cards to give to Dad when you stand up to him. Shows who the mature one is in the situation. Likely he is still hurting, both with emotions and ego. I bet its a kick in the head to have your wife leave you for someone else be it a man or a woman. The only way he knows how to deal with it is by digging up crap about her. Only to find out he is digging himself into an early grave with stress and his relationship with you kids.

One thing I would stress to your brothers is, GO TO COLLEGE or University. This will get them out of the house and away from the stress of Dad.

Good luck and know there are always people here to help you out.
C

 

[Weird Harold]

I dont know what the hell to do anymore. I try to talk to my dad and it all goes back to my mother and how she did him wrong. he will NOT get over this. I want him to talk to someone, but he has already told me many times he rather talk to me, which I CANT deal with anymore. And my poor kid bros get the ass end of things.

I think your dad needs some shock therapy -- don't dig out the TENS unit, I'm not talking about literal shock therapy.

Your Dad is upsetting you with his constant harping about how he's been done wrong. Tell him he's made his felings very clear and you're tired of repeating himself. Also tell him that you will walk out everytime he brings the subject up -- and then follow through on the promise.

If you can enlist your brothers in the protest as well, he'll eventually get the idea that he's driving you and your brothers away from him by harping on the subject.

It won't really change his felings, but it should shut him up on the subject if you and your brothers get up and leave the room everytime he starts bitching.

 

[dollface007]

I agree that a "neutral" adult should intervene. Have your brothers go to their high school counselor and tell him/her what's going on and that they need someone to speak to their dad. If your brothers won't go to the couselor, go up to their school and talk to the counselor yourself. Tell him/her what's going on.

I second the idea that you should encourage your bros to go to college. I remember when my little brother was in high school, he would complain about my parents all the time. My dad was really hard on him (but basically he was a good kid). I told him the best way to solve that problem was to continue to get good grades, take the SATs and FILL OUT YOUR COLLEGE APPLICATIONS! Make it your job to help them do these things, and also fill out their financial aid forms.

Your dad has a right to be angry, but this kind of behavior is inexcusable. Put your foot down.

 

[dollface007]

Whoops...double post.

 

[bobsgirl]

Re: Re: Angry, Divorced dad

I think your dad needs some shock therapy -- don't dig out the TENS unit, I'm not talking about literal shock therapy.

Your Dad is upsetting you with his constant harping about how he's been done wrong. Tell him he's made his felings very clear and you're tired of repeating himself. Also tell him that you will walk out everytime he brings the subject up -- and then follow through on the promise.

If you can enlist your brothers in the protest as well, he'll eventually get the idea that he's driving you and your brothers away from him by harping on the subject.

It won't really change his felings, but it should shut him up on the subject if you and your brothers get up and leave the room everytime he starts bitching.

You absolutely must do this for your own sanity. Your story sound so much like my own family many years ago. My mom left my dad when she finally couldn't take it any more, and my dad was devastated. I remember very clearly him telling us kids if we loved him, we would make our mother come back. Thirty-five years later he still holds out hope that they will reconcile. But I've never forgotten the things he burdened us with, and it changed the way I saw my dad. Forever.

Yes, it must have broken his heart and his spirit when your mom left. But sometimes in life, you get a big load of shit dumped on you, and no matter how unfair it is or how much it hurts, you just have to dig yourself out, suck it up, and deal with it.

I feel very sorry for your brothers because your dad's attitude will forever influence how they feel aboout women in general, and particularly, your mom.

Talk to him soon, and I encourage you to tell him exactly what Weird Harold said.

Good luck to you.

 

[lovechild27]

Last time I was there, he slapped down some of my mom's old love letters in front of me, told me to read them, and then asked how she could be unhappy with letters like that

Wow...my dad has done that too. All I can say to him is I dont know what she was thinking when she left...sorry. Then I run out of the room.

My bros are very smart kids. They get awesome grades, in the top of their classes, are doing internships and do plan on going to college. So thank God for that.

The buisness card idea is pretty good...I was also thinking of maybe buying him some self help books as a clue. Im close to going to talk to my brothers counselors, but I know they are tired of dealing with it and they would probably be pretty pissed off if I did. We have tried leaving the room when my dad starts to get stupid...he will follow us though. He invites me for dinner every Sunday and I always tell him no, because all he does is mope around and bicth about my mom, even if he has other people over. He has been inviting my moms sister and my uncle over a lot lately and I guess all he does is bitch about her to them too. I have flat out told him I dont want to talk about mom because it stresses me out and he starts saying things like, "Oh gee...WELL IM SORRY! IM SUCH AN ASSHOLE ARENT I?!" So I do want to talk to him...Im just not sure of a good way to approach him, because no matter how you put something to him, he will take it WAY out of context. Im pretty damn close though to just screaming it in his face the next time he says something.


Thanks for all the support...it really makes me feel so much better to know that Im not being out of line for feeling the way I do, and to know that Im also not alone.

 

[lovechild27]

farkin double post

 

[Weird Harold]

I have flat out told him I dont want to talk about mom because it stresses me out and he starts saying things like, "Oh gee...WELL IM SORRY! IM SUCH AN ASSHOLE ARENT I?!" So I do want to talk to him...Im just not sure of a good way to approach him, because no matter how you put something to him, he will take it WAY out of context. Im pretty damn close though to just screaming it in his face the next time he says something.

Perhaps a screaming tirade will get through his self-absorbtion where more polite means have failed.

When you decline the dinner invitations, do you explicitly tell him it's because he's obssessing over your mother and driving you crazy?

Don't make any excuses for him, or try to talk around the subject -- he apparently isn't taking any hints, so a figurative two-by-four to get his attention is going to be needed.

Such confrontations are seldom pleasant, and sometimes all they do is accelerate the inevitable rift in family relationships. Still it's better to go ahead and make a break-up happen than let it drag out over a long period of time.

Your Dad is still dealing with fresh wounds -- It took me about a year (and a rather sadistic D&D character to sublimate the anger) before I could eventalk to my ex civily about anything other than the kids -- and even that was difficult at times. I think the biggest difference was that I made an effort to not let my anger spill over onto the kids, families and friends. Your Dad doesn't seem to be making that effort.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

NO! No self-help books. PLEASE, for his sanity, and for YOUR sanity, you DON"T want him doing that.

Let me explain.

My mother, after she left my dad, started to read self-help books. She still does. She has a huge basket beside her reading chair filled with them.

And y'know what it did to her? It made her always talk about her feelings, her emotions. It made her compare herself to all of the examples in the book, and then begin asking her kids if she was like that. It made her compare herself to middle-aged female movie characters, because she felt they were a parody of her. She just never fucking shut up. It was always about her.. even if you had something to contribute on the same subject, she'd cut you off and go on about her again.

It's a widely professed fact that people who have suffered severe emotional trauma (like this divorce) should NOT use self-help books. It's like self-medicating, and while that SOMETIMES helps, generally it only causes more damage, as people tend to see themselves in all of the negative sides of the book.


Please GOD don't do this.

 

[Metal_Monkey]

I have flat out told him I dont want to talk about mom because it stresses me out and he starts saying things like, "Oh gee...WELL IM SORRY! IM SUCH AN ASSHOLE ARENT I?!"

Uh, YEAH!

This situations angers me because no matter how ugly or damaging a divorce is, kids should NOT have to deal with their parent's shit. It will happen anyway, but parents have a responsibility to sheild their kids as much as possible.

Your dad is acting like he's the only person who was hurt when your mother left. Have you pointed out that you and your brothers are just as affected by the divorce as he is? Your home is divided and your loyalties are under seige. He has no right to answer you with sarcasm like that.

Tough Love might be the only thing he'll respond to right now...

 

[SensualCealy]

Id listen to Metal Monkey- Definatly knows whats going on and how to deal with it!

Stay strong, if not for yourself at least for your brothers.
Oh and I think the screaming ranting and out right bawling would work. Make him see what all of this has done to you and that he makes it worse everytime you step through the door!
C

 

[heckle]

Have you talked to your dad abotu how you feel? Divorce can be a traumatic event for all parties. I know, I have been divorced twice. You can either keep it bottled up inside, vent in front of those who are around, or just let it go. Since I had custody of my kids, I decided to just let it go. What happened happened. Nothign I can do to change it. If I worried abotu it, it would eat me up inside. Besides, I have learned to "not sweat the small shit". So, talk to your brothers and see if they feel the same way. Then try to sit your dad down when he is calm and talk about it. If you end up talking it out and your dad starts ranting again, DO NOT walk away from the conversation. This will only bring up the past. Tell him that if he starts ranting that you will turn around or something like that to signify that he should calm down and discuss.

Not that I am a trained professional analyst or anything, just been through alot myself.

Good luck.

 

[sheath]

Don't make any excuses for him, or try to talk around the subject -- he apparently isn't taking any hints, so a figurative two-by-four to get his attention is going to be needed.

Such confrontations are seldom pleasant, and sometimes all they do is accelerate the inevitable rift in family relationships. Still it's better to go ahead and make a break-up happen than let it drag out over a long period of time.

A divorce is hard on everyone involved. But once you have kids, they come first...at least, they should. Especially in the event of something as traumatic as a divorce. Your father seems to be in 'poor pity me' mode, and I agree with Weird Harold...the two-by-four to the conscience is going to be the only thing to get through to him.

I would suggest writing your father a letter. Don't use that letter as a substitute for the actual discussion...but make sure to leave it in a place where your father can find it after the big blow-up. Start out by saying something like, "I know we are both really angry right now, but I want you to know these things...I want you to know how much I love you." And then tell him all you feel, rationally and carefully, and be sure to remind him that you are still his daughter, you love him dearly and you want things to work out so that you can have a wonderful relationship with him, like you both deserve.

That way, if a conversation does turn out to be a screaming match, when he calms down with a new perspective he will have some reassurance there from you, even if he isn't ready to talk to you again just yet.

It's just an idea...If anybody thinks it is a bad one, by all means, call me on it! I was a child of divorce, but my father and I were very cold toward one another for dozens of reasons, so I never had to deal with one parent pitting me against the other. It was just a totally different situation than yours.

Good luck, lovechild.

S.

 

[cecelia]

I had a similar situation when my parents split, although I had no siblings. It was a mess and I was the sounding board for both of them. I found myself in the position of having to be very careful - if I spent 52 minutes visiting one, I sure as hell better spend 52 minutes visiting the other.
My mother is still very bitter despite the fact that my father's been dead for years (he had another woman). What I finally realized was that they were trying to use me to validate their own actions or defend their failures. They both had to be 'right'.
I finally had to sit down and tell them how I felt - that I was certainly sorry that their marriage failed and that I understood the anger but that I was powerless to fix or stop it and that, no matter what my personal feelings about the circumstances, my 'choosing sides' would do nothing to heal their psyches.
I'm sure you're carrying your own load of baggage over this. My parents divorce has affected the way I view relationships. My advice, selfish as it sounds, is to save yourself. If that means staying away, do it. Oh, you'll have guilt bombs tossed your way but, if you have to, you can toss them back. My feeling is, that if you can find the strength to remove yourself from the situation and try to keep as unaffected as possible, it will be better for you in the long run and better for your bothers because they'll be able to find a safe place in you.
Perhaps a question to ask your father is, "Why are you telling me this?" Maybe if he has to think about it, it will help curb some of his disregard for your feelings.

 

[Weird Harold]

I would suggest writing your father a letter. Don't use that letter as a substitute for the actual discussion...but make sure to leave it in a place where your father can find it after the big blow-up. ...

That way, if a conversation does turn out to be a screaming match, when he calms down with a new perspective he will have some reassurance there from you, even if he isn't ready to talk to you again just yet.

Good suggestion Sheath.

 

[overthebow]

NO! No self-help books. PLEASE, for his sanity, and for YOUR sanity, you DON"T want him doing that.

Self-help books helped me to get a better understanding of what happened in my life. It's too bad that they haven't seemed to help your mother. Some of the self-help books have examples drawn from movies. Puhh-leeeze!! Give me a break! That is so lame. Other self-help books have examples drawn from therapy patients. They seemed more real to me.

 

[overthebow]

My parents are recently divorced. To make a long story short, my mom left my dad for a man she met on the net. They separated two days after last Christmas and were divorced mid july.

I spend the vast majority of time at my guys house. I come here to see my dog and hang out with my bros. I have two teenage brothers...15 and 17. They are at home all the time with my dad. Tonight over dinner, I found out the things my dad has been telling them.

I'm sorry for your loss, LoveChild.

It sounds like your father is grieving and doesn't know how to express himself well. I was talking to a friend about divorce recently and my friend used the expression "Grieving the dream" and I thought it worked well.

We have a dream about a life that we are trying to build. We make plans, but first we have a dream. And part of the dream is that we are going to be loved. Part of the dream also is that it will define us as adults, that it will embody what we want and hope for the world: to be respected and admired as honest, trustworthy people, people of character, people of value. But then the dream dies with divorce.

Grieving is a physiological response. This isn't something that you can control like muscle movement.

Your father is grieving the dream and he doesn't know how to grieve. He sounds like he needs help. His grief probably makes him feel weak, and that leads to fear and fear leads to his anger. He needs to understand that this is a process that he is going through and that he needs to heed the process of grieving. He is not the only one who is grieving. His children are grieving too. He needs to help them grieve and to help them resurrect the dream in their own lives.

His children are at that time in their lives that the dream is taking shape. It is unfair to your father that he is expected to help his children grieve and that there is no one in his family to help him grieve. There are people outside of the family, e.g., counselors, ministers, friends, etc., who can help with the grieving, but it will go on for a while.

You father needs to learn more about grieving and how to help his children and how to help himself.

 

[warrior queen]

when my parents split up, i was 15 years old and my brother was 13.
my mother left, and we were forced to live with my father for the next few years.
at first my dad did all of those things described in here - he used us as his sounding board, his 'oh poor me' captives, his release for all the hurt.

but about 12 months in, i'd had enough, and one day i just stood in front of him, and screamed that he was being a selfish prick, thinking that the split only affected him, and not behaving as a father should, protecting both of us!

wow!
what a reaction!
he just sat down as if i'd pole-axed him, and then completely withdrew for a week or so.
but when he came out of it, he was a totally different person.
he actually apologised to both us kids for being so self-centred that he couldn't see what he was doing to us, and things from that moment on were much better for all of us.

sometimes, it takes you telling the truth straight-up - no matter how difficult it seems to be - for people who are wallowing in pity to actually sit up and wake up.

 

[warrior queen]

lovechild27 -

<snip>I have been told to forgive my mother so Im not a bad person and while I love her, Im not ready to.<snip>

this statement hit me, because i was exactly the same.
i was so furiously angry with my mother for leaving us, that it was many years before i allowed her back into my life.

she left when i was 15, and it was after i had my first child (i never even told her i was pregnant!), that i finally allowed her limited access into my life.
i was 24 then.

it took another 2 years for me to finally sit down with her and hash it all out, and by the end of it, we were both crying and happy and sad and upset at all the time we'd missed, and excited to be talking again.......

i finally told her that i forgave her leaving,and she apologised for leaving, and we cried a whole lot more.

fast forward to today - and we have one of the best mother/daughter relationships ever, and i am so very glad that i took a chance and allowed her back in.

one day, you will see the one truth that you cannot get away from - she is your mother, and no matter how much you want her to be perfect, she's only human (just like you!) and she makes bad/wrong/unpopular choices (also, just like you!)

keep the doors open, because like me, you might one day find that your staunchest ally and friend .... is your mum.

 

[overthebow]

it took another 2 years for me to finally sit down with her and hash it all out, and by the end of it, we were both crying and happy and sad and upset at all the time we'd missed, and excited to be talking again.......

It is good that you were brave enough to allow yourself to be vulnerable to this person who had hurt you so much. There is no intimacy without vulnerability.

Would you be able to reconcile with a mother who was marriied three times and screwed around in all her marriages? What sort of limits do you think you would have? What if your mother was physically abusive? Mentally abusive?