Andrew McCabe has been fired...

[BBX3]

read from LYPO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...4bfff693d2b_story.html?utm_term=.a73073b2ee02

 

[BBX3]

if FBI says FIRE HIM

he must be a MAD DOG!

 

[HisArpy]

That doesn't prove anything. If you lost your job 2 days shy of a pension and someone offered you 2 days worth of work so you get it, you'd do it. Wouldn't make sense not to. All it proves is he wants his pension.

It didn't come from just any "someone". The offer is from a member of the political party on whose behalf McCabe is accused of lying for. Did you also notice it's the ONLY offer and it's for a position that doesn't actually exist unless he accepts? And that there's no probationary period to determine if he's performing his duties to a credible standard?

It's an offer to give him 2-3 more days so that he gets his bene's. Made by the Democratic masters he toasted his career and retirement over by supposedly lacking candor and lying to protect them during an investigation.

Optics are everything.

 

[WoundedKnee]

They are a sleazy party.

 

[BobaFetaCheese]

It didn't come from just any "someone". The offer is from a member of the political party on whose behalf McCabe is accused of lying for. Did you also notice it's the ONLY offer and it's for a position that doesn't actually exist unless he accepts? And that there's no probationary period to determine if he's performing his duties to a credible standard?

It's an offer to give him 2-3 more days so that he gets his bene's. Made by the Democratic masters he toasted his career and retirement over by supposedly lacking candor and lying to protect them during an investigation.

Optics are everything.

You want a probationary period for a job that's supposed to last a pay period? What would be the point of that?
And no matter what it is or looks like, it doesn't prove anything. This kind of shit happens every day.

 

[HisArpy]

read it

OPR wouldnt say FIRE, just cause......THEY FELT LIKE IT

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eneral-on-firing-of-fbis-mccabe-idUSKCN1GT04O

An allegation of guilt isn't the same thing as PROOF of guilt. Indict him, let him (and us) see the evidence and then McCabe can choose to plead guilty and accept the consequence or fight the charges.

That's how we do justice in this country.

Note please that I'm NOT saying he not guilty, I'm saying I WANT MORE PROOF! than a mere report recommendation before you terminate someone without retirement 2 days before those benefits vest.

 

[WoundedKnee]

That's the Democrat Party rewarding him with $1.8 million for services rendered. That's just fucking sleazy.

 

[HisArpy]

You want a probationary period for a job that's supposed to last a pay period? What would be the point of that?
And no matter what it is or looks like, it doesn't prove anything. This kind of shit happens every day.

Yep, that's why it's called shit.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

This is what McCabe says about it:

The investigation by the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General (OIG) has to be understood in the context of the attacks on my credibility.

Here is the reality: I am being singled out and treated this way because of the role I played, the actions I took, and the events I witnessed in the aftermath of the firing of James Comey. The release of this report was accelerated only after my testimony to the House Intelligence Committee revealed that I would corroborate former Director Comey’s accounts of his discussions with the President. The OIG’s focus on me and this report became a part of an unprecedented effort by the Administration, driven by the President himself, to remove me from my position, destroy my reputation, and possibly strip me of a pension that I worked 21 years to earn. The accelerated release of the report, and the punitive actions taken in response, make sense only when viewed through this lens. Thursday’s comments from the White House are just the latest example of this.

I'm not sure what exactly he is charging here. Was the OIG under pressure in some way? He seems to be suggesting the whole process was NOT by the books. How exactly that played out I don't know.

If you will slow down for just a minute, you will see that the chasm of our disagreement is not that wide. You and I are essentially on the same page that, despite my support for many of the President's policies, the man himself is a vindictive illiterate. And there is no doubt whatsoever that he relished firing McCabe, in hopes that it would facilitate bringing the Russian collusion probe to a conclusion -- a thought process that, as you correctly point out, is mind fuckingly illogical.

Okay? We're both standing on that street corner.

My complaint with you is that you actually entertain the idea that something like the FBI's inspector general or the Office of Professional Responsibility could actually be swayed by the nonsense that Trump tweets on an hourly basis. If they were, they would actually be guilty of the very thing Republicans have been accusing McCabe, Strozk, and others of.

Individuals in any organization can succumb to their personal bias. But the idea that the OPR as a functional entity is dominated by partisan Republicans susceptible to the rantings of a semi-accidental President and that it would formulate that bias in an official report for the political purpose of detrimentally effecting the life of a federal employee two days before being fully vested for retirement runs blatantly contrary to the history of that office, its legal responsibility and common sense.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Thanks for the advice. I suggest you stop masturbating and grow up.

You should just take up masturbation to occupy your time. It will be better for everyone.

 

[cowslinger64]

I think the whole thing was handled badly. Per usual in Washington. It was made worse by the overzealous microscope examination of anything/everything Trump.

IF McCabe's conduct was as bad as is being told, then the OPR and the IG should have recommended that he be indicted and prosecuted. At that point PROOF would be placed on the table and if found to be sufficient to find a guilty verdict, THEN and only then, should he be stripped of his retirement benefits.

Being fired 2 days before retirement sucks. He worked for 20 years with the idea that if he did his job he'd get the reward. Now that carrot has been snatched away at the last second based on a report recommending his termination. A report written during a very turbulent time in DC politically and which could be motivated by means that aren't based on the evidence.

That last is my problematic point about what happened. McCabe should have been allowed to retire. If the facts are sufficient, then he should be prosecuted. If found guilty THEN take away his bene's. Anything other than that process smacks of something illegitimate somewhere.

The Dem job offer is politics. Nothing more, nothing less. If McCabe takes it, he proves that he's a shill for the Dem's and that the IG/OPR report is sufficiently true enough to have warranted his immediate termination.

I pretty much agree with you. The shill part at the end is your politics showing through, IMO... But the rest is very well said.

I also agree that trump being involved adds fuel to this fire... but look at how he conducts himself as president.. While there is a lot of focus on every thing he does..it's the stupid arrogant narcissism he brings to the table, added together that paints a very poor picture of him. ....it's not just a media witch hunt.

Comparing your post with ishs and hogans post above is a good example of why it's so difficult to find common ground. They couldn't possibly see trump doing anything wrong...and I'm sure sure if he could possibly do anything wrong in their eyes.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

You're both missing the point, although RG is a lot closer to the target than Mr. Duncan.

It does not matter whether it is or is not an "egregious crime."

It does not matter whether the DOJ ultimately moves forward with a criminal prosecution -- whether an alleged "crime" in question is egregious or otherwise.

And it matters least of all to bring up "whataboutism" examples of past acts within the New York office of the FBI.

And the FBI's INTERNAL IG and OPR sure as hell do not operate on a partisan political basis at the political whim of either the Attorney General or the President which is exactly how the media is spinning this. OPR made a recommendation on the basis of long-standing values consistently applied within the FBI. And that recommendation was made in all likelihood BOTH with full knowledge AND irrespective of McCabe's retirement date.

Because that's how the FBI itself believes it should operate. Something Andrew McCabe apparently "forgot."

I don't disagree with you. I want everyone who takes an oath of office to behave as they have sworn to. My only real point in this thread is that I think it's a dick move to take McCabe's pension for what is alleged to have done. I might feel differently about that when all information is available. I wouldn't take someone's pension then gloat about it, would you?

 

[cowslinger64]

They are a sleazy party.

You're right... the gop is full of sleazeballs. I agree.

 

[WoundedKnee]

I don't disagree with you. I want everyone who takes an oath of office to behave as they have sworn to. My only real point in this thread is that I think it's a dick move to take McCabe's pension for what is alleged to have done. I might feel differently about that when all information is available. I wouldn't take someone's pension then gloat about it, would you?

It occurs to me that Sessions (and the IG) has more information than we do and the firing was not political, but a prelude to something criminal, as in charges in the works. If that is true, then this is egg on the faces of Democrats again.

 

[cowslinger64]

It occurs to me that Sessions (and the IG) has more information than we do and the firing was not political, but a prelude to something criminal, as in charges in the works. If that is true, then this is egg on the faces of Democrats again.

How is then that you, vette and the rest of the rwcj have more information on the Russian investigation than Mueller????

 

[cowslinger64]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-senators-warn-trump-not-end-russia-probe-141739939.html

Republicans to Trump: Let Mueller do his job

Snip


The Republican president has renewed his Twitter attacks on both the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Mueller's probe since the firing on Friday of the bureau's former deputy director, Andrew McCabe, two days before he was eligible to retire with a full pension.

Republican Senator Jeff Flake, who has criticized Trump harshly, said the president's latest comments appeared to be aimed at the firing of Mueller.

Senator Lindsey Graham, another Republican, said if Trump were to dismiss Mueller it would mark "the beginning of the end of his presidency."

 

[Captainnumnuts]

How is then that you, vette and the rest of the rwcj have more information on the Russian investigation than Mueller????

You don't really want the answer do you?

 

[cowslinger64]

You don't really want the answer do you?

It was a rhetorical question.. just pointing out their hypocrisy.

 

[Que]

I don't disagree with you. I want everyone who takes an oath of office to behave as they have sworn to. My only real point in this thread is that I think it's a dick move to take McCabe's pension for what is alleged to have done. I might feel differently about that when all information is available. I wouldn't take someone's pension then gloat about it, would you?

I would have taken Lois Lerners pension and danced with glee, so yes. I'm not exactly clear what mcabee has done but the fact that the email suggesting that he was involved in some sort of discussion about taking out insurance to harm the incoming president would suggest to me that he might have done something equally as bad as Lois Lerner did. If so he deserves everything he's getting + prison time.

 

[BBX3]

How is then that you, vette and the rest of the rwcj have more information on the Russian investigation than Mueller????

here is why WE KNOW

1-House Intel Com has said there was NON

2-EVERYTHING is leaked, everything, NOTHING leaked re THAT

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I would have taken Lois Lerners pension and danced with glee, so yes. I'm not exactly clear what mcabee has done but the fact that the email suggesting that he was involved in some sort of discussion about taking out insurance to harm the incoming president would suggest to me that he might have done something equally as bad as Lois Lerner did. If so he deserves everything he's getting + prison time.

but, but, but, what about due process and innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Que]

but, but, but, what about due process and innocent until proven guilty?

I am sure there is an appeals process. If he did not deserve to have his pension snipped then by all means give it back to him. If he did deserve it then I'm not losing any sleep about the fact that he almost got awarded a pension that should have been denied.

When the Obama Administration allowed Lois Lerner to retire and get a pension, I would imagine that it's much harder to rescind a pension that has already been awarded than to cut it off while the person is still an employee and subject to the rules of their employer.

By the way the inacurate trope, "Innocent until proven guilty" erps me to no end. It isn't innocent until proven guilty... you have the presumption of innocence in that whoever is charging you needs to prove your guilt beyond whatever standard is applicable for that particular venue but nobody is universally innocent. The standard of proof varies with the degree of jeopardy you are in. appropriately if we are talking about taking your life or liberty that's a much higher standard than taking one's pension. Taking one's pension can be for something as simple as simply being rude to a customer.

I'm not entirely sure that I like the police state overtones of the fact that you can have your liberty taken from you for lying to an FBI agent. That seems a fairly low bar for bad behavior. the FBI tend to be fairly smart and fairly persistent I don't think that they'd cotton well to you simply telling them I decline to answer on the grounds that that might tend to incriminate me. I could see myself cornered into telling some version of the truth that I thought was reasonably close to the actual truth and get me out of whatever corner that I find myself painted into.

The FBI has a culture of cornering and bullying witnesses and they specifically use written notes rather than modern audio and video taping because it enables the agents to shade it the way they want to I think the practice needs to be done away with. Coming from that culture, an actual employee of the FBI getting caught lying by all means they should find their liberty in jeopardy along with Martha Stewart, Scooter Libby and Michael Flynn.

Sauce for the gander and all that.

 

[cowslinger64]

I am sure there is an appeals process. If he did not deserve to have his pension snipped then by all means give it back to him. If he did deserve it then I'm not losing any sleep about the fact that he almost got awarded a pension that should have been denied.

When the Obama Administration allowed Lois Lerner to retire and get a pension, I would imagine that it's much harder to rescind a pension that has already been awarded than to cut it off while the person is still an employee and subject to the rules of their employer.

\


And the trump administration allowed her to stay retired and collecting a pension.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-lois-lerner-irs-doj-20170908-story.html

The Trump administration said Friday it won't charge a key IRS figure in the mistreatment of conservative political groups during the 2010 and 2012 elections.


And while you're imagining.. if there was criminal conduct involved, with all the republicans in office, (for now anyways) why is nothing being done?

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I am sure there is an appeals process. If he did not deserve to have his pension snipped then by all means give it back to him. If he did deserve it then I'm not losing any sleep about the fact that he almost got awarded a pension that should have been denied.

When the Obama Administration allowed Lois Lerner to retire and get a pension, I would imagine that it's much harder to rescind a pension that has already been awarded than to cut it off while the person is still an employee and subject to the rules of their employer.

By the way the inacurate trope, "Innocent until proven guilty" erps me to no end. It isn't innocent until proven guilty... you have the presumption of innocence in that whoever is charging you needs to prove your guilt beyond whatever standard is applicable for that particular venue but nobody is universally innocent. The standard of proof varies with the degree of jeopardy you are in. appropriately if we are talking about taking your life or liberty that's a much higher standard than taking one's pension. Taking one's pension can be for something as simple as simply being rude to a customer.

I've had my shit fucked up by Ds & Rs and you can be sure I would like to hurt those people but I can't imagine being such a vindictive dick that I would take someone's pension then gloat about it like a demented 5 year old.

My initial post on this thread was that it's a dick move. We can go back and forth about what McCabe allegedly did but my comment is that it's a pussy move by Trump. If you're being truthful you can't ignore the fact that Trump has been attacking McCabe and his wife for over a year. Can you remember a time when any president of the United States publicly attacked an FBI agent?

 

[Que]

I've had my shit fucked up by Ds & Rs and you can be sure I would like to hurt those people but I can't imagine being such a vindictive dick that I would take someone's pension then gloat about it like a demented 5 year old.

My initial post on this thread was that it's a dick move. We can go back and forth about what McCabe allegedly did but my comment is that it's a pussy move by Trump. If you're being truthful you can't ignore the fact that Trump has been attacking McCabe and his wife for over a year. Can you remember a time when any president of the United States publicly attacked an FBI agent?

Trump's petulance is unique to him. In this case though there are two separate issues one is the actual firing with which he (I would assume) would have had little to no actual input into and the other half of that is him encouraging it, then crowing about it which I have to agree is unseemly but I would have trouble resisting, were I him. and yes there's no question that that part is a dick move.

Not only is it simply impolitic it's also not smart because by inserting himself and his personality into these processes that should actually be professional and neutral, it shades them in ways that it shouldn't and sometimes prevents the right thing that he wants done being done because people do not want to give the appearance that they are doing his bidding even if they aren't actually doing his bidding but doing the right tying. (Holy I don't think that's a run-on sentence Batman, but it sure looks like one.)

I do think Trump should have stayed completely out of it and I think that the Beat the Clock aspect of this is when you realize that it's an employee is about to get a pension that he's not deserving of, a decision must be made.

it would have been much classier if we just suddenly learned that he had been fired not necessarily why unless and until he chose to speak about it in public.