And what have you done...

[JagFarlane]

...for this world? I sit here and I watch, read, listen how people rant on about the injustices in this world. I watch as threads are hijacked for people to one up others on whatever issue they so please. And I sit here, and ask myself, what have you done to give back to the world? I know there are people here whom have worked hard to better themselves, clawing and scratching thier way to make themselves better, and ask myself...have you given back? You used a scholarship to help yourself earn your degree, and are now a successful [insert profession], making x amount of money, and sit comfortably in life. Have you given back to that scholarship? Do you know there are people here, in this same thread, that are in hard times in thier lives, scraping thier way through due to various reasons, illness, injury, or just downright bad luck?

If you so wish...I shall start first. Prior to joining the Navy I was a member of NJSAR [New Jersey Search and Rescue]. This is an all volunteer organization that keeps itself afloat via a small grant from NJ and various donations from citizens and various businesses. We pay for our own equipment, and I can say, that I participated in every search that I could, even calling in sick from my job [which supported me...it was an outdoors store], and losing a days pay here and there to go help find lost souls.

Since I joined the Navy, I have assisted the Goose Creek High School football team during thier games, mostly by being a member of the "chain gang"...the guys whom run the yard markers during games. I have also helped out Habitat for Humanity, Keepers of the Wild, and donated to various charitys to help out those in need.

Some will say, yea but you're in the military, they take care of you. Some even say we're overpaid...to which I bring up something that I heard last Thanksgiving...the president of the foodbank in Norfolk, was telling the story of how a local base CO, a few years back had called her about something brought to his attention. That there were many military families that would have to go without a Thanksgiving dinner because...thier paychecks couldn't cover it. Surprising? To a lot, yes...I mean...how is it that the families of those that fight for our freedom, would have to go without a meal upon a day that we celebrate our survival in this land? But its a true statement...and they fight everyday. Many of them willingly give up thier freedoms to fight for YOU. Not to sit here and toot the militarys horn, but of all places I've seen, its the one with the least amount of racism and hate. Its a place where people take care of one another, and truly care for the well-being of others. I was able to have the surgery on my eye thanks to my division, and the fact that they allowed me to stay behind from the deployment, even though there was no paperwork saying that I could, because they understood the need.

So, honestly, what have you done that gives you the right to be judgmental about others and what they have done? What gives you the right to scream about particular groups of people and thier needs? What gives you the right to separate people out? America is known as one of the most philanthropic countries in the world. We give billions to other countries. When a tsunami hit...we had Navy ships there within a couple of days to help out victims. What did you do when 9/11 happened? Millions, if not billions of dollars was poured into relief funds. Same thing with Katrina...I will always remember Shaq ordering up tractor trailers on his own money to fill with food and take to the victims, personally loading the trucks and thanking people who donated. We cry how the government didn't help victims...no, its not the governments full responsibility...its OUR responsibility to help others. When 9/11 happened, it was our firefighters, our EMTs, doctors, SAR members, and others whom responded, saving lives and helping people. It was not the government that had to respond...we responded. We risked our lives to help others, and that is the greatness of human spirit, therein lies the character, the fortitude to help when all is lost. The corpsmen whom risk life and limb to save fellow soldiers, the firefighter whom runs through a burning building to save a child. Everyone has the possibility for greatness. Not just to bicker and rant upon some fucking message board about themselves, but to take real action. To be the one whom volunteers thier time, thier money to assist those that really need it.

-sigh- I wipe my hands clean of some of you. For all that I have seen, many of you, although friendly on the outside, are cold hearted and bitter people whom think truly of themselves. There are those of you that cry about your freedoms, and about how others should help out, yet do nothing more than that...than cry. Grow up, take responsibility. There was a time in this nation when, if you needed it, you could "borrow" a cup of sugar from your neighbor, because they knew when they needed it, you would help. No longer that is, we have become a nation concerned with only ourselves, and we should be ashamed. We idolize the firefighter, tell stories and legends of them...when really...we could all be heroes like them. A hero is someone whom has made an impact in someone else's life, the soup kitchen worker, the Scout Master, the person whom volunteers thier time teaching after school...they're all heroes...why aren't you?

 

[Guest]

 

[meg1]

Don't wipe your hands of me yet. I have not saved lives, but I do try in little ways to help. I have volunteered at a hospital, and a nursing home. While my job did not entail any life saving, it did make people happier than they were, and I think that should count for a lot. I have also volunteered to teach reading and English through my local library.

Thankfully, I am not in a competition. I bought a house because it's what I wanted, not because I wanted others to look up to me. I volunteered because it made me feel good, not to make others feel badly.

I congratulate anyone who has given back. I admire people who put their lives on the line for others.

 

[gauchecritic]

I thought this was going to be an introspection thread, but then...

got called a self-serving scrounger, a layabout, heartless, cry baby, whinger, judgemental and on top of all that not as american as I ought to be.

Judge this...

 

[logophile]

Jag - I encourage you to re-read CD's thread "Feeling Helpless" to get some idea what some of the people on this board do for others. There are several examples in there of things AHers do for the world. And I'm sure that many, many people didn't post their own personal volunteer activities, as it is often feels like such a private thing.

If there are a few people who are belly-aching and don't seem to be contributing to the betterment of the world, it can be frustrating to listen to them. But calling out an entire bulletin board on the grounds of not actively participating seems to be a little pompous. Not to mention inflammatory. If you want to have an actual conversation where people feel free to talk about their own work and beliefs, it is usually better not to start with an attack.

I wanted to be part of this conversation, but it feels adversarial now.

 

[oggbashan]

... on top of all that not as american as I ought to be.

Judge this...

But you're not American. You're from "Oop North".

Perhaps we do our bit by NOT being American.

Og

 

[logophile]

Perhaps we do our bit by NOT being American.

Hear, hear.

Or, is that - here, here.

I never can remember.

 

[neonlyte]

Hear, hear.

Or, is that - here, here.

I never can remember.

Play safe... use one of each

NOT American isn't the issue... that's like saying we/you/I are not Yorkshire.

 

[S-Des]

...the president of the foodbank in Norfolk, was telling the story of how a local base CO, a few years back had called her about something brought to his attention. That there were many military families that would have to go without a Thanksgiving dinner because...thier paychecks couldn't cover it.

One of the saddest parts of the way things have turned out. Politicians are trying to cut corners wherever possible in order to appease people who feel we spend too much on the military, but still trying to accomplish their personal goals....so the soldiers get screwed. My dad was a Korean war vet (a paratrooper) and the army took care of him until the day he died (saving him tens of thousands by allowing him to be treated at a VA instead of a regular hospital). It wasn't fancy, but the people took care of each other (families and even the patients who weren't as sick). Far too many of our fighting men and women don't get what we owe them....which is care for any injury (physical or mental) that they incur protecting us. Also that those who run into hard times because of their service (i.e. family problems and financial crunches) need our help as well. There are several great charities that take care of military people (because I agree, we need far LESS government, not more of our money being mis-spent and stolen by greedy politicians and their sycophants), usually set up by soldiers and their families.

My favorites are: AnySoldier.com (where you can write directly to and buy care packages for soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan), USACares.org (who help soldiers and their families in financial emergencies), and WoundedWarriorProject.org (actually there are three with the same name that seem good). Anyone who doesn't like Bush or the war, but still cares about the troops can pick one that allows you to do something good without crossing any political lines.

I've been looking for something more to do (not easy with three jobs and a child), but so far haven't found the right thing. I admire people who have found their place, no matter what their particular political or social bent. Giving back is the best way to show what kind of person you are (and not so coincidentally it's the best way to feel good about yourself).

 

[oggbashan]

...

NOT American isn't the issue... that's like saying we/you/I are not Yorkshire.

But Yorkshire folk pity the rest of us for not being Yorkshire.

And the rest of us wonder what we're missing - apart from the cricket.

Og

PS. There are UK equivalents for UK forces e.g. SSAFA and the British Legion.

 

[English Lady]

*hugs* Jag. I know the frustration but I can tell you that these people here are deeply kind. Don't write the lot off because these people will do anything, anything to help if they possibly can. I am forever overwhelmed by the generosity of this mixed bag of authors.

 

[neonlyte]

Deleted: Totally bizarre double post ten minutes apart

 

[logophile]

I don't want to speak for Sophie (she's out for the morning, home soon), but ask her what the people on this board are capable of. When she was displaced by hurricane Rita, she had offers of shelter, food and clothing from more people than she could imagine. She was just telling me Friday night that it was the first time in her life when she had felt truly loved, truly welcomed and cared for. Remember, not everyone is going to make the world better with a grand gesture. Most people are going to improve the world by helping one person at a time, quietly.

 

[sophia jane]

I don't want to speak for Sophie (she's out for the morning, home soon), but ask her what the people on this board are capable of. When she was displaced by hurricane Rita, she had offers of shelter, food and clothing from more people than she could imagine. She was just telling me Friday night that it was the first time in her life when she had felt truly loved, truly welcomed and cared for. Remember, not everyone is going to make the world better with a grand gesture. Most people are going to improve the world by helping one person at a time, quietly.

This is true. I'm not going to name names or single anyone out because I don't want to embarrass anyone but we had offers of a place to stay when we had to evacuate and later when we had to move. We had people (people I only knew from the internet) send us clothes for our kids, including winter coats. At that point, I didn't know any of these people in real life (not even Logo) but it was the people here on lit, some of whom don't have extra money or "stuff" who took care of me.

 

[tickledkitty]

Most people are going to improve the world by helping one person at a time, quietly.

I think most people don't like to toot their own horns, no matter how big or small their gestures may be.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You have to remember that a forum like this one is going to be "all talk." What else is possible? It's a forum. It's like a bar-- you only see us here. If you only ever saw these people in a bar, you might imagine that they did nothing but drink, day in day out-- and they might imagine the same about you.

Even the people that you might be reading as "cold and inhuman" are, actually, human. They are discussing a problem from a different aspect, using the English language in a slightly different way. They know that their discussion is not a comfortable one to listen in on. But for many people, discussion, even if it sounds cold and uncaring, can lead, eventually, to real solutions, the kind that can be used in reality.

And at the last resort, there's always the ignore function...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

And I sit here, and ask myself, what have you done to give back to the world?

Someone must say it so I guess it might as well be me:

Give back? Did you take something?

OK, OK - Jag says he got a scholarship, and is grateful for that. Good for you, Jag, but you still don't "owe" anything for it, except perhaps a duty that is more to yourself than to anyone else, which is to be the best you can be. If you're a used car salesman, that means the best salesman you can be; if you're a capitalist, it means be the best capitalist you can be, etc. I would submit that "best" includes doing these things or whatever else with honesty and integrity - if you succeed by lying and cheating that makes you a good liar and cheat, not a good seller or capitalist - and while that's relevent it's slightly off point.

Here is the point: For most people the best way you can contribute to society and to your fellow man is by doing your job and fulfilling whatever obligations you have voluntarily accepted - to be good mother, husband, sibling, etc. A good car salesman helps keep the wheels of commerce spinning in the economy, and a good economy can do more to inprove human well being and reduce suffering than all the do-gooders in the world combined. Indeed, without a functioning economy all those do-gooders aren't worth a bucket of warm spit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dis the desire to engage in a little altruistic action - there's something in the human soul that makes doing so feel good to us (which makes the activity an "honest trade" in Objectivist terms, Ami), and it's good for the community too. But the idea that because you have been successful economically (however you define that) you must "give back" is misguided. By being successful economically you have already given back. You are debt-free in this regard, and anything extra you want to contribute is for your own good feeling - and for "brownie points."

A wiser person than I said it well in 1776 (not that wise man - the other one):

"By pursuing his own interest (each man) frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those (merchants) who affected to trade for the public good (rather than for their own interest)." Adam Smith

 

[oggbashan]

Nothing changes...

Rudyard Kipling


Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

 

[S-Des]

But the idea that because you have been successful economically (however you define that) you must "give back" is misguided.

Only in your opinion Rox. Some of us believe that we OWE our freedom to the men and women who protect us. I tried to serve, but was unable. Therefore I most certainly owe it (if for no other reason than human kindness) to them to contribute my time or money as I can to help. I don't believe the government can fix problems in society, so if people don't step up and help (without expecting financial gain in return), portions of society will get weaker and sicker. These portions do come back on us, no matter where we try to go to escape them. Doing things in one's own self-interest only takes our society so far. I would think that would ring home in someone who is so against the government growing to try to fix society's ills.

 

[kendo1]

Jag, get a life.

You seem to think you're the only one who helps others.

We don't all bleat on about how good we are.

And stop using whom when you mean who.


Helpful Ken

 

[theMaven]

All the Lord asks is that we treat each other the way we treat ourselves.

If you do that, you can't go wrong. Unless you're into self-mutilation or something...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Only in your opinion Rox. Some of us believe that we OWE our freedom to the men and women who protect us. I tried to serve, but was unable. Therefore I most certainly owe it (if for no other reason than human kindness) to them to contribute my time or money as I can to help. I don't believe the government can fix problems in society, so if people don't step up and help (without expecting financial gain in return), portions of society will get weaker and sicker. These portions do come back on us, no matter where we try to go to escape them. Doing things in one's own self-interest only takes our society so far. I would think that would ring home in someone who is so against the government growing to try to fix society's ills.

S-Des, you're mixing apples and oranges here. Specifically, what society owes to the young men and woman who offer "the last full measure of devotion" for their country, and the more prosaic forms of civil charity and volunteerism. You've spoken for all of us on the former, and on the latter - look again at what I wrote. It doesn't contradict the rest of your post.

To prove that I believe that, I'll refer you to a piece that I've cited approvingly in various contexts here before, in particular the section that that includes this passage:

"But Aristotle was right. Virtue is a habit. Virtue does not flourish in the next generation because we tell our children to be honest, compassionate and generous in the abstract. It flourishes because our children practice honesty, compassion and generosity in the same way that they practice a musical instrument or a sport. That happens best when children grow up in a society in which human needs are not consigned to bureaucracies downtown but are part of life around us, met by people around us."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008142

 

[Stella_Omega]

Q.E.D.
Rox, you are the one who is mixing apples with oranges-- Jag is talking about physical, roll-your-sleeves up-and swing-a-hammer, actions, mostly.

You're talking about money.

In my life, I've taught art to children, in a school that had no money for art classes. I forced that school to re-open its playground, and rebuild its library-- and I was the one who catalogued the books after seven years of chaos. I've taught kids to work with their hands, out of my own materials and space.

I've counselled teenagers on their sexuality and drug use. I've taught safe sex classes in the Women's clinic-- I donated the wooden dildoes that they use to teach women how to roll on the rubbers and donated more of them for fundraising auctions. Ive done support work for Doctors without Borders. I've housed homeless folk-- in my own home. I've cobbled replacement orthopaedic soles for a woman who didn't have the five, fucking, thousand dollars it would have cost her to buy them from the hospital.
I've networked people together, I work for my sister for free, I trap and neuter feral cats. I find homes for them. (usually, my own home, but yanno...

I've made a mountain of sawdust, in order to make people... happy.

Those are all real-world, not-about-money, actions. *shrug*

 

[S-Des]

Ive done support work for Doctors without Borders.

That is an AWESOME charity. I've looked into donating them, but circumstance hasn't allowed it yet. That's is an amazing list Stella, but it doesn't surprise me a bit.

 

[cloudy]

I believe Jag spoke too soon - doesn't really know the folks here well enough to know who does or doesn't do/donate/whatever.

I know for a fact that most here do when they don't have to.