An UNfortunate victim of a good upbringing...

[Weird Harold]

is a phrase I sometimes use to describe myself.

I don't use it often because people misunderstand what I mean.

Let me explain...

I grew up in the 1950's and 60's in a small town in Oregon. We never had to lock our doors or bicycles and as a child I roamed free with minimal worry on my parents part.

I learned patriotism, manners, common courtesy and common sense along with a fairly good formal education through high school. If help was needed, there were always neighbors galore fighting to do their part to help. Conversely if neighbors needed help we were always among those shoving our way to the front to help.

Over the years since I left home, I've always done my best to help stranded motorists when I can. Opening/holding doors when there is someone else close behind me is second nature. When I see a neighbor with a big load of groceries to bring in, I often offer to help.

Here at Lit, I'm incapable of not opening a thread that has help or question in the title -- I'm a "compulsive do-gooder."

The problem is, that in today's society, the values I was taught as a child seem out of place -- not that I have any intention of changing.

People mistrust an offer to help, always seeming to seek the ulterior motive behind such an offer. I've actually had people cower in fear because I offered to help.

Once people get to know me, I'm often told that they wish there were more prople like me in the world -- willing to help just for the satisfaction of having been able to help.

So the question is, "Why aren't there more people like me in the world?"

There used to millions of us, but we're slowly dying out -- either literally in the case of those older than I, and figuratively through repeated rejection of our offers of help.

Are you a compulsive do-gooder or are you one who looks for the ulterior motives when help is offered by a stranger?

 

[registered "^^"]

Don't change WH

you are a fine human. I was raised much like you and also tend to help out others to much. Why because i was raised to treat others as you would like to be treated, sadly not too many are brought up that way in this techno generation.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Don't change WH

... Why because i was raised to treat others as you would like to be treated, sadly not too many are brought up that way in this techno generation.

Why is that (apparently) true though? Was it the influence of Dr. Spock's book on raising children? Changes in educational theory and practice? Video games and/or music videos?

What's your pet theory on why compulsive do-gooders are a dying breed?

 

[registered "^^"]

It's much easier to not get involved.

People rarely even talk to their neighbors now. When I was growing up neighbors talked to each other daily, seems we all are to busy rushing somewhere to do that any more. But where are we rushing off to?

 

[ExLimey]

I was raised a lot like you (only in the 70s and 80s). I live in a place now which is much like what you described. I grew up in the big city so I can't leave my house unlocked all day, but I do leave my car running when I go into the post office/general store to get my mail. (on second thought that could be because nobody wants my rusty truck, but I like to think otherwise)

I always hold open doors and never walk in first if someone is close by. I had someone get kinda nasty with me one day when I did that. That I don't get, I told her it was just my upbringing and I was sorry that it offended her! Some people's kids!

I usually try and help most people, but refuse to pick up hitchhikers.

 

[fgarvb1]

W H, i was raised the same way. and i know how you feel.

i know i don't come off that way on this board. but it's true.

i get on the teenagers and younger kids cases about it to. some of them have no ideal what i'm talking about. they are growing up to be crude, rude, and sociably unacceptable.

 

[miz_understood]

I think its because the basic structure of the family has changed. When I was a growing up most mothers didnt work and had more time for friends and neighbours. Also we used to wander for miles and our parents never really worried about bad things happening to us. Nowdays with both parents out at work and kids not having the opportunity to play around, its seems that all the interaction that used to happen between folks in the neighbourhood has come to a full stop especially in larger towns and cities.

I have great neighbours who will always help out with anything if needed, and we try to be there for them but, sometimes days can pass and we dont see each other at all especially in the winter.

 

[lillend]

I also was raised this way, and because most my generation was not i'm often looked at as being a bit odd. Most people consider me "too nice". Not that they dislike me, but I still get that label..."too nice". What is that supposed to mean anyways?

I do think it has a lot to do with differences in the way kids are raised now. I had a stay at home mom, and I am now a stay at home mom for my kids. I do think it is possible to work and spend a plenty of time with family, it is just a lot harder. I worked up until last year and always felt that my mom was raising my kids in stead of me, she was my baby sitter. It hurt me because I felt I was missing so much by not being there for them.

It is much harder to be a parent now than it was before. Most of the time both parents need to work just to get by. In this situation the children do not get as much family time, and the parents end up feeling guilty and possibly bitter for not being there for them. I am so glad I no longer have to work, I love being with my kids. Now if I could only figure out how to bring in an extra income and be here with my children

 

[christophe]

i was born in the 60's and like many had good values instilled in me as a child. they continued to grow as i aged. i have a son whom my wife and i are raising the same way. i honestly think that the me me me generation will slowly disolve.

people will have to begin to learn that life is not meant to be "get rich quick and fuck the rest of you"

it is an interesting society in which we live i will say that. humans are the only species of animal upon this earth that will fuck another human over for a percentage!

 

[LukkyKnight]

It's cartoons, WH

They fucked up cartoons.

Time was, you could count on the road runner to let the coyote fall into his own trap, or watch Jerry dodge aside as Tom got victimized by his own haste.

Now the cartoons feature punks who talk trash but have their faces on lunchboxes and school back-packs.

The end is near.

 

[Guest]

One Word...

 

[seXieleXie]

hmm...
well i was born in the 80's and i grew up in neighborhood that my friends are afraid to walk through at night, but i still think i'm a nice person. no, i'm not the soul of altruism but if i can help, i do. i enjoy helping others, i get the "selflish" kick of feeling good about myself after helping someone out.
i'd say that "kids these days" aren't as bad as we seem, and we do the best we can. it's a tough world that asks us (everyone really, not just young'uns) to be tough or be hurt, and no one can blame anyone for picking the first option. there are plenty of just plain good people under the age of 30, you just have to be on the lookout for us among our louder counterparts.
on the other hand i am always shocked when strangers do nice things for me, even though i would have done the same were positions reversed. perhaps i'm more cynical than i thought

 

[Barb Dwyer]

The problem is, that in today's society, the values I was taught as a child seem out of place -- not that I have any intention of changing.

Good manners, kindness and courtesy will never go out of style in my book. And, you are not alone WH!

I was also raised with the same set of values. I was taught to 'respect my elders' and treat everyone with kindness and compassion.

As others have stated here, the times they are a changin'. I have several theories which, when combined, result in the kind of world you bemoan.

I agree that the breakdown of the family plays a large part in the unraveling of our societal fabric. With two income families the majority, who is left to raise our children? Strangers. As in any profession, most are capable and decent, but there are also dispassionate, bored, $5/hour employees who do nothing more than babysit for 8-10 hours. They have no interest in your child's development - intellectually or emotionally. No one could ever have the kind of investment in a child's welfare that parents have.

Then, of course, there is the ever hurried pace at which we run our lives. Not live our lives...run our lives. Literally. When I was a child, we ate breakfast together every morning and dinner together every evening. There was no running around taking one child to soccer and another to ballet while Dad goes to the gym and Mom goes to the book club meeting. We actually sat down and talked. About how our day was. What happened in school. Life. They knew who our friends parents were.

Further, in my household, one of the traits we were taught is almost invisible or unknown these days. Responsibility. We had to do our homework before we were allowed to watch tv or talk on the phone or do any extracurricular activity.

My parents (and my friends' parents) were in charge! Not the kids! We didn't dare dream of talking back to parents or teachers. Why? Well, first of all we were taught that it was wrong. Yes, the biggest lesson in life. The difference between right and wrong and good vs evil. I sometimes wonder if people today know the difference. And if they do, they don't seem to care.

Additionally, we learned a very important lesson. That if we did do something bad, there were consequences! There aint no such animal today for most children. Look at all the adults who get away with murder (sometimes literally) and never pay for their behavior.

How can we expect members of society to treat each other with respect when they don't care? Before the advent of the X generation or the Y generation there was the ME generation. It has not gone away. It is infectious and has spread to members of all age groups. So many people are only out for themselves nowadays. It's disturbing. I mentioned these things the other night in a different thread so I apologize for repeating myself but it is a hot button issue for me.

Too many people are selfish. Only look out for themselves. Their priorities are simple: themselves. It used to be that with age came maturity and insight. Now it just brings ulcers and heartburn. In a world where success is measured in the amount and size of toys, is it any wonder that family, friends and community would come in a distant second?

You referenced Spock. I would say he was a major contributor to the breakdown of the family and the delinquency of youths. His methods strayed from the previously held and established and accepted child-rearing practices. He was a great proponent of spare the rod/spoil the child philosophy. Well, all that got us was a generation of slackers and
problems.

Now we have children shooting classmates, disenfranchised employees shooting up the workplace. We have people who call in sick or play on the computer all day instead of working. We have companies taking advantage of world situations to gouge their customers for the almighty dollar. We have one religion or political group or country fighting each other over land, money, superiority. We have people looking the other way when crimes are committed because they 'don't want to get involved.' We have people who don't care for anyone but themselves.

It is tragic.

But it isn't hopeless. I was heartened by the events after 9/11. To see people pulling together. United. Looking out for others. Sometimes it does take a tragedy to bring people together. To help them focus. To prioritize. To find their compassion and selflessness.

So, after this whole diatribe....I am ......hopeful

 

[Weird Harold]

You referenced Spock. I would say he was a major contributor to the breakdown of the family and the delinquency of youths. His methods strayed from the previously held and established and accepted child-rearing practices. He was a great proponent of spare the rod/spoil the child philosophy. Well, all that got us was a generation of slackers and problems.
...
But it isn't hopeless. I was heartened by the events after 9/11. To see people pulling together. United. Looking out for others. Sometimes it does take a tragedy to bring people together. To help them focus. To prioritize. To find their compassion and selflessness.

So, after this whole diatribe....I am ......hopeful

I think you meant opponent of "spare the rod..." "Slackers and Problems" certainly is one way of describing three generations of spoiled children.

I know that things aren't hopeless. Tragedy certainly does bring out the best in people -- at least for a while. Now if we can just find a way to keep that feeling of "community" going as the horror starts to fade.

 

[lillend]

My aunt has raised her two boys under the ideals of Spock....you have never seen such bratty kids! Oh wait....you probaby have, they are everywhere. She will not even tell her son's "no". It is a "negative' word and you should never talk negatively to your children.....cough....gag!

Well I am personaly am trying as hard as I can to raise my children the best that I can. I cannot say that I am succeeding, I do not know that I am, but I am trying. My kids do not listen to me very well and a lot of the time make me feel like ripping out all my hair, but they are young. I will keep telling them "no" (that evil word) until they learn. I will continue to punish them when they have done something wrong, until they learn. I will not give up, and I hope one day that my children will grow up to be the ones that are "too nice", I find that much preferable to the alternative.

 

[Weird Harold]

Shameless bump for the late-night crowds opinions.

 

[erosman]

So the question is, "Why aren't there more people like me in the world?"

I think that there still are quite a few - look at the responses you're getting here. This place seems to be full of them.

I think that difficulty and hardship are main contributing factors for producing the qualities of compassion and empathy. And, I don't think that difficulties and hardships are about to be extinct. Parents who cater to their children's every whims produce ungrateful and insensitive adults. The best lesson a child can learn is to accept no, without whining.
Our grandparents and our parents lived too close to hard and difficult times to say yes to all our wants. I think that success and the easy life have been idolized and made to appear so available, that the patience of hard work and self-discipline are archaic concepts to many...but not all.
There are amazing stories being lived out each and every day of people who overcome difficulties and hardships. Their choices set them apart, just as yours and the rest of the posters here have shown. I'm sure that this place is full of living stories of overcomers...but this place is probably above average.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I was raised the same way. I lived in the city for awhile, and after three years of living in my house, I still was not on a first name basis with the next door neighbors in spite of the fact that we invited them to BBQ's (they never came), I made them cookies for xmas, and jelly in the summer.

We moved to this tiny little town 3 years ago, and everyone knows us. We don't lock our doors, we leave our keys in our cars, and neighbors stop by just to see how things are going. It's a nice change.

Tonite when I was leaving work, there was a trucker stranded on the exit ramp to the interstate. I couldn't let him in to use the pay phone, so I let him use my cell. He was shocked that someone would let him use up their minutes. I can't even comprehend leaving someone stranded on the interstate at almost 11 at night when it's 28 degrees outside when I could let them use my phone to call for help...

I have no theory on why the concept of good manners is so foreign to people today. I'm only 28, so I'm not convinced that it's a generation thing... I'm raising my kids to say please and thank you, to open doors for people who need help, and to be polite.

 

[Weird Harold]

I think that difficulty and hardship are main contributing factors for producing the qualities of compassion and empathy. And, I don't think that difficulties and hardships are about to be extinct. Parents who cater to their children's every whims produce ungrateful and insensitive adults. The best lesson a child can learn is to accept no, without whining.
...
I'm sure that this place is full of living stories of overcomers...but this place is probably above average.

I don't remember any "difficulty and hardship" in my early years. We were by no means wealthy, nor am I wealthy now, but that didn't make our lives difficult or hard.

I think "discipline," both that imposed by parents and self disipline, is a bigger contributing factor to an easy display of compassion and empathy -- i.e. being a "compulsive do-gooder." Possession of compassion and/or empathy does not necessarily mean the ability to act on those feelings.

Whenever circumstances don't allow me to stop and help someone, what I feel is more along the lines of "guilt over dereliction of duty" than "a failure of compassion/empathy." I often don't feel an compassion or empathy for those I offer to help, I do however, feel a duty to "love thy neighbor as thyself" and "do unto others..." When I don't, or can't help, I feel more like I do running a stop sign accidently than I do sadness.

For the most part, those who reply to this thread are far above average on the "do-gooder" scale. Many are survivors or "overcomers" but many feel as I do that we're simply playing out the hand we were dealt -- nothing to "survive" or "overcome" just Life and its many interesting surprises.

 

[Calamity Jane]

You referenced Spock. I would say he was a major contributor to the breakdown of the family and the delinquency of youths. His methods strayed from the previously held and established and accepted child-rearing practices. He was a great proponent of spare the rod/spoil the child philosophy. Well, all that got us was a generation of slackers and
problems.

I totally disagree that not spanking kids leads to them being slackers. How does that even make sense?

I was never spanked as a child. Not once. Neither were my sisters. None of us are slackers. In fact, since I was 14 years old, there have only been two times in my life when I have held less than two jobs. I held three jobs while attending college full time... worked two while pregnant so my husband could finish his degree without working...

How could getting spanked have made me a better person?

I am raising 2 kids who don't get spanked. They're both well behaved kids who know it's ok to question, and it's ok to think for themselves. They're being taught to be polite members of society, but not to blindly follow the 'because I said so' logic.

Here's another thought... the whole 'spare the rod' thing is based on a shepherd guiding his flock, not a parent using a switch on a kid. The shepherd doesn't beat the sheep with the stick to get them to go where he wants them to, he gives them gentle nudges until they figure it out on their own... which in my opinion is true parenting.

 

[Debbie]

[/QUOTE] by Weird Harold
Are you a compulsive do-gooder or are you one who looks for the ulterior motives when help is offered by a stranger? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes I am a compulsive do gooder. I want nothing from you, I just like to help. Today for example the lady in front of me was 10c (a dime) short at the supermarket. She politely told the checkout girl, I'll have to pop out to my car. And was packing up her little girl to do that. I quietly offered her the 10c. She looked at me and without a word shook her head. WHY? I dunno.
So I waited while she went to her car and got the 10c. Without a comment. i just smiled when she returned.

I don't look for ulterior motives if people stop to help me. I am pleased if they do so. I hope that if I do good the cycle might continue.

Why aren't there more people like us in the world?

There are. I truly believe that. I have seen again and again the hardest, meanest person do something kind when they are shown some kindness. No, Im not totally naiive, this isn't always the case.

I was raised by my Grandparents. My Grandpa was the kindest, most patient person I have ever known. He set me a wonderful example. He never had a mean word to say about anyone. I am bringing up my children the same way he brought me up. Talking, explaining,listening, setting a good example. They do not watch violent movies. I monitor what they watch on tv and talk to them everyday about who they are and what is happening in their lives.
I want them to be happy, with good self esteem and I want them to be the best that they can be. I want them to be a little like me.

I also teach them to stand up for themselves and to respect others. Treat others the way you want to be treated.

 

[Weird Harold]

I totally disagree that not spanking kids leads to them being slackers. How does that even make sense?

I was never spanked as a child. Not once. Neither were my sisters. None of us are slackers. In fact, since I was 14 years old, there have only been two times in my life when I have held less than two jobs. I held three jobs while attending college full time... worked two while pregnant so my husband could finish his degree without working...

How could getting spanked have made me a better person?
...
Here's another thought... the whole 'spare the rod' thing is based on a shepherd guiding his flock, not a parent using a switch on a kid. The shepherd doesn't beat the sheep with the stick to get them to go where he wants them to, he gives them gentle nudges until they figure it out on their own... which in my opinion is true parenting.

There is spanking and there is spanking.

Some children need some sort of physical punishment to get through to them. It doesn't necessarily have to be a switch behind the woodshed, but a slap on the hand that is reaching for something forbidden works better than a more involved punishment that takes up the parent's time as well as the child's.

A single swat on the bottom when a child is caught with their hand in the coookie jar is much more effective than an hour spent in a bedroom full of toys.

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" is indeed about guidance and correction -- effective guidance and correction.

You say you were never spanked. I presume that you mean you were never "taken out behind the woodshed" for a formal five lashes with a swith sort of spanking. However, if you or your children have never had your hand slapped away from a forbidden or dangerous thing you are unusual people indeed!

debbiexxx said:
I was raised by my Grandparents. My Grandpa was the kindest, most patient person I have ever known. He set me a wonderful example. He never had a mean word to say about anyone. I am bringing up my children the same way he brought me up. Talking, explaining,listening, setting a good example. They do not watch violent movies. I monitor what they watch on tv and talk to them everyday about who they are and what is happening in their lives.
I want them to be happy, with good self esteem and I want them to be the best that they can be. I want them to be a little like me.

Setting a good example is always preferable to being seen as a hypocrit saying "do as I say..." If you're setting a good example, it reduces the amount of explaining and teaching that you need to do.

 

[Guest]

Wh,
I was happy to read your thread and it gives me hope that there's more to this word than cynicism and apathy.
Stay the way you are and be happy that you contribute positivity to this world.
Don't give up on those generations after you. I am a do-gooder and I try to treat others with a gentle spirit. That's why I became a social worker- not for the high pay!

blessings!

 

[lillend]

Setting a good example is always preferable to being seen as a hypocrit saying "do as I say..." If you're setting a good example, it reduces the amount of explaining and teaching that you need to do.

This is one of the places I'm having a little trouble. I believe that i lead a good example for my children...but the same could not be said of their "dad". I have now been seperated from my husband for over a year, but I should have left much sooner. How could I explain to my children that they could not lie to Mommy when Daddy did it all the time? How could I expect to them that Daddy can scream at Mommy when he was mad, but they can't? Not that I ever allowed them to do these things...but I did allow Daddy to do it, just by staying with him. That was not fair to my children, and it was not fair to me. However I was the grown up and as such it was my responsibility to stop it....i did, but it took me longer than it should have.

Now I pick up the pieces and try to show my children that there is another way. I know the damage is there...I see it every day. My boyfriend I will be play fighting and my kids will see it as real. Then I have to explain that we were only playing....it was a game to us, but not to them. At other times they do understand though. My kids have commented on the difference in my boyfriends behavior as compared to "Jason's", they do not even call him Dad anymore. The funny thing is....that hurts me too. I hate knowing that I put my children through that. I hate knowing that i did not stop it sooner. It is not my fault that my Ex was that way...it is my fault that I allowed it.

 

[Barb Dwyer]

pagancowgirl,

Allow me to clarify what I intended and, obviously, so poorly articulated. My comment about Spock being responsible for the delinquency of youths of subsequent generations raised on his methods was not referencing spanking at all. In fact, I never mentioned it - other than the phrase 'spare the rod/spoil the child.'

It was his teachings that parents should not discipline their children at all that bothered me. I do not espouse hitting or child abuse in any form. I am sorry that you misunderstood that and took umbrage at my remarks. They were not meant as an attack on you or anyone else who was raised that way or who raise their own children that way. Also, if you'll notice, I rarely speak in absolutes. Meaning, I did not categorize everyone brought up on Dr. Spock as a slacker!

Weird Harold beautifully addressed the difference between using physical means as a teaching tool - to modify inappropriate behavior and hitting for hitting's sake. There is a huge difference - and I believe we all agree on that.

There are all sorts of ways to discipline children and teach them right from wrong. Your post reflects that you are a caring and loving parent.

My intent was to decry the lack of teaching children to take responsibility for their actions including accepting the consequences. In my opinion, his 'boys will be boys' or "kids will be kids - leave em alone" attitude has fostered a generation of adults who believe that they can do anything they want without repercussions.

BTW, I was never spanked either and I suppose I turned out alright - as did you.