An imperfect dom?

[Pure]

An imperfect dom?

Is there one? In virtually every Lit. story I've read, the dom is a cross between Jesus Christ and our St. Francisco. (Maybe this applies to dommes also?) I can't remember seeing, in a Lit story,# ** a dom who has problems, imperfections, or failings: I'd like to see some examples of failings in character-- a dom, who has a current drinking or drug problem; who sometimes breaks a promise; or is unfaithful. (Leave aside, for the moment, the novice's problems, and those of the complete impostor.)

Or, examples related to in his calling: is sometimes less than competent; makes a serious mistake in inflicting pain. Fumbles(leave aside for the moment, cruel).

Are there examples, in lit. fiction, of doms with minor--but non-trivial--failings or neuroses: liable to lose temper; forgetful; overly depressed about seemingly minor setbacks; unreasonably jealous or suspicious; obviously too high an opinion of self. Even, uses bad grammar.

Please give some help finding such stories; describe the dom and his issues. In your experience, which items listed are simply never seen (in a story). Give the url of your examples. Maybe my sample just has a weird bias.

{ADDED 3-25: To clarify: It's expected that any quoting of others be minor and respectful. In fact no quotes are necessary to address the point of this thread.}

I wonder how far this idealization applies to fictional dommes as well?

J.


**possibly excepting one by KM.

# Added: possibly excepting one or two by nathan 'rr' gonad. Since he's been critiquing the conventional or officially approved 'dom' for some years, the deviation from the pattern I mention is not surprising. See

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121312&pagenumber=1

 

[Netzach]

Groovy. I guess I should write one. I try to make my Dommes in fiction one of two things....

enigmatic and ultimately less important than the ususally male sub protagonist. (typical erotica)

Not only flawed, pretty human, pretty neurotic. THere's an incredible story in the book Sacred Exchanges (blue moon press)that deals with the viewpoint of a Domme with many misgivings and weaknesses, and it's not even a plug for the story I wrote.

 

[rosco rathbone]

An imperfect dom?

Is there one? In virtually every Lit. story I've read, the dom is a cross between Jesus Christ and our St. Francisco. (Maybe this applies to dommes also?) I can't remember seeing, in a Lit story,** a dom who has problems, imperfections, or failings: I'd like to see some examples of failings in character-- a dom, who has a drinking or drug problem; who sometimes breaks a promise; or is unfaithful. (Leave aside, for the moment, the novice's problems, and those of the complete impostor.)

Or, examples related to in his calling: is sometimes less than competent; makes a serious mistake in inflicting pain. Fumbles. Occasionally impotent. (leave aside for the moment, cruel.)

Are there examples, in lit. fiction, of doms with minor--but non-trivial--failings, or neuroses: liable to lose temper; forgetful; overly depressed about seemingly minor setbacks; unreasonably jealous or suspicious; obviously too high an opinion of self. Even, uses bad grammar; doesn't know some important fact.

Please give some help finding such stories; describe the dom and his issues. In your experience, which items listed are simply never seen (in a story). Give the url of your examples. Maybe my sample just has a weird bias.

I wonder how far this idealization applies to fictional dommes as well?

J.


**possibly excepting one by KM.

see my fiction for imperfect doms.

although, I think you are going to run into definition problems...ie "dom" as either "perfect" or "trying to be perfect". Or at least pretending.

 

[Justina123]

I am currently reading the Marketplace series by Laura Antoniou and enjoying it THOROUGHLY, so far have read thru Book 3 "The Trainer" and her books are FULL of very believable characters and lots of imperfect dominants, as well as submissives- very human, believable characters of all ages, shapes, sizes, and orientations, who make mistakes at times, some forgivable and understandable, some not, some who go on to be better for it, some who don't, etc. etc.

I highly recommend the series if you're looking for down to earth believable characters. Yes, the basic premise of the book, the system of slavery, is fictional, but I have really enjoyed the depth of the characters in this series, not often found in bdsm literature.

- justina

 

[dragonlace]

I am currently reading the Marketplace series by Laura Antoniou and enjoying it THOROUGHLY, so far have read thru Book 3 "The Trainer" and her books are FULL of very believable characters and lots of imperfect dominants, as well as submissives- very human, believable characters of all ages, shapes, sizes, and orientations, who make mistakes at times, some forgivable and understandable, some not, some who go on to be better for it, some who don't, etc. etc.

I highly recommend the series if you're looking for down to earth believable characters. Yes, the basic premise of the book, the system of slavery, is fictional, but I have really enjoyed the depth of the characters in this series, not often found in bdsm literature.

- justina

I have the whole series(so far 5 books) and loved every one, they are great books

 

[Pure]

Hi Justina, Hi Dragon, I like Antoniou, also. Her stuff, however is not at Literotica as specified.

Yes, rr., I though you might have done an exception. Your fiction output posted to lit. has been rather scarce. Iow, what's the *rule* here.

J.

 

[evesdream]

Groovy. I guess I should write one. I try to make my Dommes in fiction one of two things....

enigmatic and ultimately less important than the ususally male sub protagonist. (typical erotica)

Not only flawed, pretty human, pretty neurotic. THere's an incredible story in the book Sacred Exchanges (blue moon press)that deals with the viewpoint of a Domme with many misgivings and weaknesses, and it's not even a plug for the story I wrote.

Is that a hint about where we *would* find your story?

 

[evesdream]

It sounds like a great premise for a good writer to develop.

I've written one about an extremely vain Master, who nonetheless establishes his dominance and works in tandem with his partner to put it thoroughly to the submissive main character. Not a particularly sensitive writer so it started as a send off of an O type fantasy, and ended up in Lit's long gone extreme section. Maybe heavy handed.

There's a lot of room for character development and insight, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, for sure.

 

[Netzach]

Is that a hint about where we *would* find your story?

Yeah, it is. I just wouldn't want anyone grabbing up a copy and thinking I thought my Domme character was fully realized. (She's so not, the bottom's head is where it's all at.)

 

[Moxy Irish]

To Pure

Dear Pure,

Excellent topic...*smile* thank you for posting.

I hope this answer doesn't get me dragged behind horses....but...ummm....I like reading about really hot, competent, nice, well-rounded, talented, good looking, naturally Alpha heroes in stories. As well as great, likable, smart, funny heroines.

I predominantly write my stories by developing characters around fantasy scenes. I work to make the characters realistic, yeah, but I like my people to be cool and likable, and in short story form, I don't want to give them problems that eat up more page time than the "erotic" content. I'm a sucker for a good Hero. We are often all so flawed in life it's nice to be able to escape into a story where the Hero makes your heart pound and says all the right things...and if he doesn't say all the right things he knows how to be funny and humble about it so the reader and the heroine like him even more.

I don't want to sound unsubstantial here, but I read other genres when I want to get my crunchy/flawed/heartbreaking ya-ya's out. I read erotica to laugh, gasp, heat up, say "Ohhhhh, yeah."and feel satisfied afterward. I believe one can write a believable hero and heroine without giving them serious flaws. None of my people are perfect, but they tend to say the right things at the right times, and I do my best to make their imperfections kinda charming and in context with the story.

Just my two cents,
Much love,
Mox

 

[Pure]

Mox,

That's a nice posting and I agree with much of it. The Jesus Dom is related to two other kinds of idealizations: 1)Those in romances, where the 'true love' male is handsome, constant, and caring.

2)In porn, of course, there's the everready nympho, and the multiply ejaculating truncheon-wielding stud.

As some have pointed out, the issue is perhaps one of quality. Antonious is not here. Compare the hero of a harlequin and the hero of Jane Eyre. Definitely the latter is flawed, hence the book endures; it's creative, and literature.

Still even thinking of those examples of 'tall dark and handsome' heros of romances, i think none is so perfect--esp. in character-- as the Jesus dom of most literotica and amateur fiction.



PS. I'm sure one type of idealization 'does the job' for arousal. BUT I also bet you can't read the thing more than a couple times without intense boredom setting in. Crap does not last; literature does.

 

[Netzach]

Then explain Charles Dickens.

 

[Quint]

Then explain Charles Dickens.

There is no explanation, no justification.

On a related note, a friend offered to take me home from work today in his rather decrepit car. I said I could just walk, and he said he'd have to chase me down and throw me in the car--which was apparently a pretty appealing thought until I reminded him that his is not the ideal getaway vehicle. Made me want to write about an inept rapist. There is this short story called "Rape Fantasies," I don't remember the author, but she played on this theme. I'm about to get ravished but I have such a bad cold that I sneeze all over the villain and he gets grossed out and leaves. That sort of thing.

I like what I did with my characters, both the submissive and the dominant, in Issues but just because there's a power exchange doesn't necessarily make it D/s. I put it in NC for a reason. So I dunno how much it applies to this thread.

 

[Lancecastor]

Dom DeLuise has lots of imperfections.

 

[Lancecastor]

Dom Perignon, on the other hand, seldom has any.

 

[Pure]

Welcome Lance,

{{off topic reply to off topic posting deleted 3-25}}

 

[s'lara]

Looks like a surreptitious attempt to engage unwitting recruits/supporters in an identical campaign which was previously unsuccessful.

i am pretty certain about it too P. i find the meat of the topic interesting (de-mythicizing a Dominant and making them more accessible as people), but i am not in agreement with the method which is couched in a sheep-like exterior. If i'm wrong, which i hope i am, let me know.

lara

 

[Telafio]

Most people encounter such "imperfections" in their everyday life (It's called reality). What makes the "Jesus Domme/Dom" so appealing, is the fact that we are able to forget about all the mundane, pseudo problems of life.

Someone once said "reality is for people who can't face drugs".

I feel reality is fast out-pacing fantasy in todays mixed up world.

Each to their own as far as stories go. So you are welcome to your imperfections. It takes all sorts to make a world.

How many flat landscape paintings does one come across?. The scene in nature does exist, but it just does not capture the imagination. Don't quote me on this, but I reckon 95% of all landscape paintings are hilly.

The point I'm trying to make is that people today, crave more and more an escape from reality. That escape has to be void of imperfections. Otherwise, they quickly move on to something else.

 

[Pure]

lara, you may think of this as a "surreptitious" attempt to look at idealized doms in amateur fiction, if it pleases you; a sheep-disguised covert operation in search of good literature, if you will.



since you know this, you will have to be killed. sorry.

 

[Pure]

Quint said,

I like what I did with my characters, both the submissive and the dominant, in Issues but just because there's a power exchange doesn't necessarily make it D/s. I put it in NC for a reason. So I dunno how much it applies to this thread.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=106674

Well, it's fine and creative story, and worthy of a premier place in the SMACK literary annex. SMACK is of course not about 'doms' and 'subs' in conventional setups. More it's about transient SM encounters without prearrangements and agreed rules.

Your character doesn't fit the question of this thread, which is about mainstream "BDSM" literature, particularly that showing a character self labelled as a dom or master.

I've set up a parallel to this thread in Authors Hangout by the way, since the larger problem is one of idealized characters, and they aren't just doms, but figures in maintstream porn and romance stories.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=237209

 

[trodas]

I find too childish reading about perfect heroes or doms, did not matter much. Yes, some people need escape the cruel reality, where everyone have flaws and some of them realy bother us...
However this is the nature of life. Creating something idealized is perhaps a great fantasy, however it missing the touch with reality of imperfection.
Im perfectionist. I trying to do every thing perfect. It's never perfect and never Im become perfect.

I don't know why i hate perfect heroes and doms, perhaps because they are so unnatural, that it can deform readers minds? I don't know.

I quess i did not like being fooled, not even in fantasy literature. I probably don't need the break from reality, so I don't finding such things attractive.

It could be perhaps because I grow up into wordl, what trying to manipulate with me by showing similar nonsenses about "how the west capitalistic and imperialistic culture is so bad and how we in comunism and CCCP believing are great...".
So i end being pissed with every these fake purrrrrfect story (because sooner or later someone say that this is true and this is how things are supposed to be...) and similar examples, witch can be found into almost every US-made movie so far...

Okay, i drifted far away from topic, so i STUFU now and took a dose of reality

 

[s'lara]

lara, you may think of this as a "surreptitious" attempt to look at idealized doms in amateur fiction, if it pleases you; a sheep-disguised covert operation in search of good literature, if you will.



since you know this, you will have to be killed. sorry.

P,

You have my apologies and thank you for the clarification. Now on to an interesting topic.

Faults. Christ, if i haven't had that thought drive itself into my head like a dull spike through sinewy tissue lately.

Yes, the imperfections are what makes us comfortable loving and worshipping the Dominant. The faltering, negative, selfish traits often times help us view the Dominants as endearing, human ... capable of more than coldness and perfect impartiality. That said, if the Dominant's faults are to the sub's detriment -- consistent and damaging hurt that is corrosive to the relationship, then it is perfectly acceptable to find those negative traits no longer appealing; instead those once lovable aspects of the Dominant become dangerous and unfitting for the type of D/s relationship a submissive may want and need. i guess choosing as wisely as one can is the key.

Imperfect Dominant vs. Perfect Dominant? i thought it important to give the imperfect Dominant a chance with the hope that such imperfections weren't surface level glitches which masked deeper problems.

i didn't find any stories i thought fitting for the thread, but i agree that it is much more attractive to see Dominant characters falling outside the predictable, fairytale box and into whoops-land. Nothing beats reading/watching a Dominant come through difficulties and regain their footing with assurance. That beats feigned cockiness any day.

lara

 

[Pure]

lara said, Imperfect Dominant vs. Perfect Dominant? i thought it important to give the imperfect Dominant a chance with the hope that such imperfections weren't surface level glitches which masked deeper problems.

i didn't find any stories i thought fitting for the thread, but i agree that it is much more attractive to see Dominant characters falling outside the predictable, fairytale box and into whoops-land. Nothing beats reading/watching a Dominant come through difficulties and regain their footing with assurance. That beats feigned cockiness any day.

Well, we have three arenas: real life; cyberland, and fiction. In r.l. imperfection comes with all humans, and as you say, one hopes they don't run too deep, or come out antisocially. And are counterbalanced by good things

In cyberland, 'feigned cockiness' is pretty common, and you wont often find admission of significant imperfection, esp. if that dom/me is offering advice.

In fiction it's even more idealized, with superior wisdom and virtue, and stunning insights into what the "little one" feels and needs, and amazing abilities to elicit her orgasms from hr. one.
Of course it's become clearer, as we talk in this thread, that the idealized 'superior male' (in one respect or another) is a staple in romance and porn fiction, the dom merely being one example. Apparently y'all find the 'real thing' insufficient for fantasy. (The same holds for many males, of course, if you look at 'most popular porn starlets'.)

 

[s'lara]

i don't know about that P. i find realistic stories better suited to my tastes in terms of D/s. i haven't read many in a long while due to my own disinterest with the typical plots. As to the 'real thing' as you put it, i think it best to describe what you believe is the definition of a reality based Dominant character.

While i don't believe it is your intention to lump the majority of D/s erotica readers into the category of "reader likes their characters unrealistic and without imperfections", you've done just that with the statement "y'all find the 'real thing' insufficient for fantasy." That isn't necessarily the case and i certainly don't embody the proto-type D/s erotica peruser who finds her thrills reading about the uber-perfect Dominant who never makes misstep. When i do read D/s erotica, i find realism in the characters makes for an enjoyable, emotion-provoking read that usually stays with me days after i've finished the story. i can't speak for anyone else, but i know what i prefer in D/s erotica and it isn't necessarily a complete absence of reality.

lara

 

[Pure]

I'm not quarreling about your taste, lara. I'm just saying that--not unlike other pornerotica writers (e.g., at lit), the *authors* (e.g., at lit) of 'dom' stories are almost always producing stories with idealized doms.

It's not unlike the McDonald's problem-- why it's the most popular restaurant in the world?

While i don't believe it is your intention to lump the majority of D/s erotica readers into the category of "reader likes their characters unrealistic and without imperfections",

Same issue. LOTS of people like McDonalds. Hundreds of readers like what's there. Of course, I can't speak, at all, of all *potential readers.*

Those of us who want to consume something of quality: very sexual and graphic, but with a touch of 'reallife', go looking for it,
(supposedly it's called [SM] 'erotica') and have trouble finding it. That's my experience.