America, America: So excited about 130 year old crap!

[CharleyH]

A news brief caught my eye today:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717...e_artifacts;_ylt=ArviOvjsRhIs4tzB5Pjib2HMWM0F

"The spot where a pair of outhouses stood 130 years ago is proving to be a treasure trove for archaeologists who braved the lingering smell in the dirt to uncover some 19th Century artifacts — and a mystery"

My initial though was what mystery? That of a person that would not stop shitting and shitting? Of course, at one time in my life I fancied pursuing archeology. I even got so far as to be admitted to a few Universities before changing my mind on the matter and going for a more useless degree. However, in retrospect? I'm thanking the gods for my previous decision because archaeology isn't looking all that glamorous in this particular situation.

My European compatriot, Ms. Lauren Hynde commented ever so bluntly that she could go outside right now and kick a stone and find something older than that. "Probably the rock" she added.

The news story continued:

"It might be an early crime scene," project archaeologist John Foster said. "It looks like the two dogs were decapitated. Then whoever did it dumped the skulls and the blade, thinking the women probably wouldn't be looking too hard into the bottom of the privy."

So, the mystery has been uncovered and there's proof in the, hrm hrm, pudding that men always hide shit from women, or in this case, things in shit. All of this is aside, though.

The article got me thinking about the everyday anxieties and fears of those who lived in the past. I recall doing one study about the medieval years. Keeping in theme with the above article, aristocrats were privileged to have had outhouses or castle potties. The common folk during those years used to have to crap in a large communal pit and while you were putting your life on the line every time you had to shit, God forbid you had to go at night!

Question: With this in mind I am thankful for modern conveniences, but I wonder what knowledge you all have to share about the anxieties and dangers of living somewhere in the past?

 

[Vermilion]

This just made me think of the Eddie Izzard sketch on history in his Dressed to Kill routine...

Yes, and I grew up in Europe, where the history comes from. Oh, yeah. You tear your history down, man! “30 years old, let's smash it to the floor and put a car park here!" I have seen it in stories. I saw something in a program on something in Miami, and they were saying, "We've redecorated this building to how it looked over 50 years ago!" And people were going, "No, surely not, no. No one was alive then!"

Well, we got tons of history lying about the place, big old castles, and they just get in the way. We're driving-- "Oh, a fucking castle! Have to drive around it..." Disney came over and built Euro Disney, and they built the Disney castle there, and it was, "You better make it a bit bigger, they've actually got them here... And they're not made of plastic!" We got tons of them, ‘cause you think we all live in castles, and we do all live in castles! We all got a castle each. We're up to here with fucking castles! We just long for a bungalow or something.

 

[rgraham666]

You can learn a lot from the waste of a society.

 

[CharleyH]

This just made me think of the Eddie Izzard sketch on history in his Dressed to Kill routine...

LOL - funny, but so damned true. When people discover I am from Canada there are certain things they ask without fail. One question that I am particularly fond of is:

"What are polar bears like?"

I usually respond, "Starving, but I lived to tell about it."

 

[CharleyH]

You can learn a lot from the waste of a society.

*smiles*

 

[dr_mabeuse]

A tribe of New Guinea Islanders was discovered in 1939 by Jacob Branowski who used to catch game by projectile defecation. They were able to accomplish this by consumption of a native fruit, the apu apu berry (ptelix aptufloria) whose pronounced laxative/carminitive properties combined with a rigorous regimen of anal sphincter exercises allowed them to expel their feces with pinpoint control and near lethal velocity. Working in teams of two, the "spotter" would maneuver the "shooter" through the brush and aim him backwards at the desired game, and the latter would let fly with a series of "...short, barking chip shots." (Hamilton, 1940) Rarely lethal in themselves, the fecal projectiles would startle and repulse the prey while the spotter clubbed it death with a mandamus root.

You can read about this and other fascinating tales like it in my "Strange Tales of Shit-Killed Game" by Commander Z.I.Mabeuse available from Disgusting Eros Books.

 

[CharleyH]

A tribe of New Guinea Islanders was discovered in 1939 by Jacob Branowski who used to catch game by projectile defecation. They were able to accomplish this by consumption of a native fruit, the apu apu berry (ptelix aptufloria) whose pronounced laxative/carminitive properties combined with a rigorous regimen of anal sphincter exercises allowed them to expel their feces with pinpoint control and near lethal velocity. Working in teams of two, the "spotter" would maneuver the "shooter" through the brush and aim him backwards at the desired game, and the latter would let fly with a series of "...short, barking chip shots." (Hamilton, 1940) Rarely lethal in themselves, the fecal projectiles would startle and repulse the prey while the spotter clubbed it death with a mandamus root.

You can read about this and other fascinating tales like it in my "Strange Tales of Shit-Killed Game" by Commander Z.I.Mabeuse available from Disgusting Eros Books.

OMG! I seriously never meant this to be some thread about "SHIT" per se. I had hoped we could map the gamut of historical experience. BUT DOC? LOL I did not know this!

Thank you.

T

 

[amicus]

I should just leave this alone and ignore the usual European snobbery` (and adopted snobbery by CharleyH) about how young and shallow America is, but for those who have never visited Europe, in some of the smaller villages in France, Belgium and Germany, one can still find people using outhouses and cobblestone for roads.

However...since Charley also mentioned an interest in Archeology, then she is probably familiar with the word, 'midden'.

There are many kinds of 'middens', kitchen middens, bathroom middens, and shell middens, all of which yield valuable Archaeological details if the past.

If memory serves, from Hayden's wall, built by the Romans somewhere in England, they were able to recover human offal from which could be determined the diet and health of those who used the midden's so very long ago.

The midden's of the Neanderthal caves in France also yielded information on the diet of those long ago peoples.

I toured a few 'Castles' in Europe, one near Heidelberg and the thing that crossed my mind was that they must have been very cold and drafty and impossible to heat.

I would guess some of your interest might be for a 'period' writing project, garnering information on how people lived in those times. Same with me from campsites and midden's ranging back to the first early inhabitation of North American by various peoples. I can still find stone tools and weapons in the backwaters of Oregon.

Amicus...

 

[gauchecritic]

I should just leave this alone and ignore the usual European snobbery` (and adopted snobbery by CharleyH) about how young and shallow America is,

But then you wouldn't have anyone to feel superior to

If memory serves, from Hayden's wall, built by the Romans somewhere in England

Your memory is failing rapidly, (only putting the one word in your mouth here Hadrian. Hadrian's Wall.

Built at the very end of England to keep out the Picts. (they didn't have any scots then because it wasn't Scotland)

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=gauchecritic]But then you wouldn't have anyone to feel superior to



Your memory is failing rapidly, (only putting the one word in your mouth here Hadrian. Hadrian's Wall.

Built at the very end of England to keep out the Picts. (they didn't have any scots then because it wasn't Scotland)[/QUOTE]


~~~

How sweet of you to correct me, thank you Gauche. Perhaps the Hayden, was from Atlas Shrugged, a concert composer, or perhaps a planetarium...dunno...


amicus...

 

[CharleyH]

I should just leave this alone and ignore the usual European snobbery` (and adopted snobbery by CharleyH) about how young and shallow America is, but for those who have never visited Europe, in some of the smaller villages in France, Belgium and Germany, one can still find people using outhouses and cobblestone for roads.

However...since Charley also mentioned an interest in Archeology, then she is probably familiar with the word, 'midden'.

There are many kinds of 'middens', kitchen middens, bathroom middens, and shell middens, all of which yield valuable Archaeological details if the past.

If memory serves, from Hayden's wall, built by the Romans somewhere in England, they were able to recover human offal from which could be determined the diet and health of those who used the midden's so very long ago.

The midden's of the Neanderthal caves in France also yielded information on the diet of those long ago peoples.

I toured a few 'Castles' in Europe, one near Heidelberg and the thing that crossed my mind was that they must have been very cold and drafty and impossible to heat.

I would guess some of your interest might be for a 'period' writing project, garnering information on how people lived in those times. Same with me from campsites and midden's ranging back to the first early inhabitation of North American by various peoples. I can still find stone tools and weapons in the backwaters of Oregon.

Amicus...

I have no current project in mind (unless you wish to discuss the word hirsute, Ami). I am simply intrigued by this. I am fascinated by what Americans might call archaeology, yet much MORE fascinated by your take (as a contemporary North American) on what you know from history. What do you know of the anxieties and fears of those past?

 

[amicus]

I have no current project in mind (unless you wish to discuss the word hirsute, Ami). I am simply intrigued by this. I am fascinated by what Americans might call archaeology, yet much MORE fascinated by your take (as a contemporary North American) on what you know from history. What do you know of the anxieties and fears of those past?

~~~

hirsutism...excessive hairyness particularly in women...sighs...sorry for your problem my dear Charley.

'anxieties and fears of those past?'

Not following your meaning, perhaps be more specific if you were serious, if not, thas okay too.


amicus...slightly hairy

 

[CharleyH]

Not following your meaning, perhaps be more specific if you were serious, if not, thas okay too.


amicus...slightly hairy

I always refer to my first post question. Read it.

 

[only_more_so]

There is a show on the Discovery Channel called "Modern Marvels". One of the marvels was the toilet, and it went into the history and evolution of the modern flush toilet. The romans had these communal toilets which was a long stone shelf with toilet shaped openings every couple of feet. Under the shelf was a trough of running water. There was also no evidence of a partition between the openings, so it was really communal.

Then there was the whole bedpan period, where people would just dump their "nightsoil" out the window into the alleys. At one point they had guys in giant cloaks who would go around with a bucket and a portable seat. People would pay the guy, he would set up the bucket and the seat and then hide the squatting person with the giant cloak!

I am so grateful for modern plumbing! Oh, and simple things like hot showers.

As to the original question... I would say one of the biggest things was medicine and disease. There were plenty of diseases that could kill you, but what would make me most anxious living at the time was having no understanding of how diseases were transmitted. People did learn that an ill person needed to be quarantined, but they didn't know why. But then there were diseases that struck out of the blue.

Another source of anxiety would be the weather. In the long term bad weather could mean a famine. In the short term it could mean your home being destroyed. You are sitting at home during a thunderstorm, and maybe it will pass in a few minutes, maybe it will get worse over several hours or even days.

 

[only_more_so]

I have no current project in mind (unless you wish to discuss the word hirsute, Ami). I am simply intrigued by this. I am fascinated by what Americans might call archaeology, yet much MORE fascinated by your take (as a contemporary North American) on what you know from history. What do you know of the anxieties and fears of those past?

Wait, non-Americans call it something else?

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=only_more_so]There is a show on the Discovery Channel called "Modern Marvels". One of the marvels was the toilet, and it went into the history and evolution of the modern flush toilet. The romans had these communal toilets which was a long stone shelf with toilet shaped openings every couple of feet. Under the shelf was a trough of running water. There was also no evidence of a partition between the openings, so it was really communal.

Then there was the whole bedpan period, where people would just dump their "nightsoil" out the window into the alleys. At one point they had guys in giant cloaks who would go around with a bucket and a portable seat. People would pay the guy, he would set up the bucket and the seat and then hide the squatting person with the giant cloak!

I am so grateful for modern plumbing! Oh, and simple things like hot showers.

As to the original question... I would say one of the biggest things was medicine and disease. There were plenty of diseases that could kill you, but what would make me most anxious living at the time was having no understanding of how diseases were transmitted. People did learn that an ill person needed to be quarantined, but they didn't know why. But then there were diseases that struck out of the blue.

Another source of anxiety would be the weather. In the long term bad weather could mean a famine. In the short term it could mean your home being destroyed. You are sitting at home during a thunderstorm, and maybe it will pass in a few minutes, maybe it will get worse over several hours or even days.[/QUOTE]

~~~

I saw that show and even a few more that detailed how the Romans built canals for water and created aqueducts and plumbing in their cities and bath-houses with heated water; geez another Nerd beside me on the forum? Gads.

I thought that might be the direction of Charley's question, but I made such an impolite entrance to the thread I thought not press my luck.

I might add to your thoughts that mysticism, fear of evil and dark and malevolent Gods and creatures of the night might have created anxieties also.

There was also slavery and oppression in that few 'common' people could feel secure in their surrounding behoven to the powers that be.

Amicus

 

[Stella_Omega]

Archaeologists have always found important artefacts in shitholes and dungheaps-- The earlliest known rocking chair ever found was a doll-sized one that was retrieved from a well that had been turned into a garbage dump during Plague times in England.

 

[cumallday]

The Irish potato famine, responsible in all it's forms, for the death and flight of millions of helpless peasants sure was shitty.

 

[Lisa Denton]

) Rarely lethal in themselves, the fecal projectiles would startle and repulse the prey while the spotter clubbed it death with a mandamus root.

It would startle the hell outta me.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Shit happens!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

You can learn a lot from the waste of a society.

Please specify just exactly WHAT I may learn from Paris Hilton?

 

[Guest]

It would startle the hell outta me.

*diet cherry coke spew*