Allowable Violence?

[myrionomos]

I have written a two chapter story which results in a minor character being castrated by a cuckolded husband. The story is more about revenge (and its repercussions) than sex and this particular event occurs quite suddenly and is described clinically, my concern being to chill rather than titillate the reader.

However could more experienced authors advise whether that type of violence is allowable in a Lit story? Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Darkniciad]

I'd say that you're on shaky ground. An act such as castration taking place in the "real world" ( doubly so if the husband is the primary POV ) is a red flag for a physical/mental cruelty rejection.

How you write that scene and the context of the story can matter, but it's certainly risky.

 

[Weird Harold]

However could more experienced authors advise whether that type of violence is allowable in a Lit story? Thanks in anticipation.

The thing to keep in mind is that Literotica is primarily a site for Erotic stories. Violence is permitted insofar as it is necessary for the telling of an Erotic Story -- Snuff stories being expressly forbidden as not being "erotic" in the opinion of the site owners.

My initial thought -- based on your question -- is that what you have in mind is excessive. If you have to ask, then you probably shouldn't.

 

[myrionomos]

Thank you for your guidance. It's an erotic story in which the main character is a delusional psychopath/sociopath. He imagines his sex life to be one thing when really it is quite another. His wife's infidelity cracks the delusion and madness emerges. Sexual self image is the driver of his emerging madness.

At the moment I can't think of anything shocking enough to replace this scene . Maybe I'll put it on ice for a while.

 

[favoritesgoddess]

It sounds like a great story. Write it anyway. Write the story you want to tell, not what is publishable here. Don't let Lit. set the standards for your writing. Unless all you ever want is to have stories here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Thank you for your guidance. It's an erotic story in which the main character is a delusional psychopath/sociopath. He imagines his sex life to be one thing when really it is quite another. His wife's infidelity cracks the delusion and madness emerges. Sexual self image is the driver of his emerging madness.

At the moment I can't think of anything shocking enough to replace this scene . Maybe I'll put it on ice for a while.

I published a 5 chapter series recently in which the main character who is paranoid schizophrenic engages in two extremely violent scenes. In the first he uses the hilt of a knife to knock out the teeth of a drug dealer who was going to hurt his sister and mailed them to his brother. in the final chapter he confronts the foster father who had abused him for years and they have a knock down drag out that ends with the main character literally breaking one bone at a time while the other is screaming and begging. Lit put it through and people ate it up.
However these were also people who fought back. The act your talking about goes far beyond a beating and is as another author commented and act of out right cruelty more than violence. It is premeditated and sadistic (I'm not insulting you I'm sure this is what you're going for) and the ultimate revenge I suppose but I'm not so sure if they will let it go. I am fairly certain you will get blasted by readers whether that matters to you or not I don't know.

 

[rgraham666]

I once had a character pull some one's heart out of a walk on character's chest. He then tilted his head back, squeezed the heart and drank the blood.

Lit put the story up.

Of course the main character was a vampire and the walk on character's boss had just tried to kill the main character. I guess context matters.

 

[lovecraft68]

I once had a character pull some one's heart out of a walk on character's chest. He then tilted his head back, squeezed the heart and drank the blood.

Lit put the story up.

Of course the main character was a vampire and the walk on character's boss had just tried to kill the main character. I guess context matters.

I would imagine, although I'm not a fan of them, that the nonhuman category has more wiggle room with violence because I think the audience expects it. Violence in regular erotica can sometimes be harder to take. Some people are very category specific. I write incest but becuse the brother/sister engage in rough sex I have been told in feedbacks that that tyoe of sex should only be bdsm or non consent. With that scene he is discussing he will get some pople who like it some that get by it and many that hate it. All that matters is if he likes it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It sounds like a great story. Write it anyway. Write the story you want to tell, not what is publishable here. Don't let Lit. set the standards for your writing. Unless all you ever want is to have stories here.

What she said.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

That's a pretty interesting question, not so much from the Literotica-permissible point of view (reasonable violence as you find in most mainstream fiction should be no problem here, I'd think) but because it raises the issue of violence as pornography, which itself sheds light on the nature of porn versus literature and what we do here. Because just as there's the sexual pornography we all know and love, there's a pornography of violence too, and while Lit is all about sex porn, I don't think they'd allow violence porn.

What makes sexual porn pornographic and different from regular literature is that (a) it's intended to titillate, and (b) it does so by concentrating on graphic descriptions of the sexual act. Sex is all over the place in modern lit and film, etc, but what sets pornography apart is that in porn the sexual act is the focus of the story rather than just incidental to it.

Similarly, violence porn gets its power from graphic descriptions of acts of violence, and it's become fairly ubiquitous in all the representative arts. It's also justifiably controversial for what it does or might do to viewers' sensitivity and acceptance threshold, and their ideas of what's socially permissible.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the castration is described "clincally". Does that mean it's described with clinical detachment? (No pun, honestly.) Or does it mean you go into clinical detail regarding what tissues and veins and vessels etc are severed? Either way could be either chilling or titillating or maybe both, depending on how the scene's written and on who reads it.

 

[stephen55]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the castration is described "clincally". Does that mean it's described with clinical detachment? (No pun, honestly.) Or does it mean you go into clinical detail regarding what tissues and veins and vessels etc are severed?

On occasion, it is necessary for a Urologist to remove one or both of a guy's testicles. When I was in medical school, back in the Dark Ages, a Urologist was explaining that with certain forms of prostate cancer, it was important to get the patient's testosterone levels down to zero, which, of course, necessitated bilateral orchiectomy. Far be it for a Urologist to do a castration.

The Urologist then recounted a conversation he had had with a prostate cancer patient. The patient listened to what the doc had to say and then replied, "Okay...you get a knife and I'll get a knife...and we'll see who's balls are coming off!"

 

[PennLady]

I'm guess there has to be context for the violence. This has not been an issue for me as I don't do sexual violence, or at least, haven't had a reason to as yet.

However, I've read a number of stories that involve sexual violence -- a couple of Daniellekitten's spring to mind -- such as a serial killer doing something to his victim before raping and/or killing them. In the end, of course, the killer is found out and either caught or killed. I'm not sure if that kind of thing allows the violence to pass muster, much as a vampire might get away with more than a human in a story.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I had a main character kill three people at the end of the story and it's still up. I also have a story that the main character has killed three men without a thought at the time. Later he felt remorse, well a little.

I have other stories that have people dying at the hand of some character or other.

I don't see a problem with what you describe, the LW crowd will eat it up...well the revenge seeking part of that crowd will. They all loved my guy shooting everyone involved with his being a cuckold.

 

[lovecraft68]

I have written a two chapter story which results in a minor character being castrated by a cuckolded husband. The story is more about revenge (and its repercussions) than sex and this particular event occurs quite suddenly and is described clinically, my concern being to chill rather than titillate the reader.

However could more experienced authors advise whether that type of violence is allowable in a Lit story? Thanks in anticipation.

Something else that came to my mind is the comment about chilling rather than titillating the reader. So to me you are going out of your way for this scene going over the top. Problem with that is I think I'm using the right term it becomes "contrived" shock fro the sake of shock. You could have it happen quickly and in les detail.

"The blade of the scalpel flashed through the air and at the same time as I felt the thrill of the blade slice through his guilty flesh my ears were treated with the music of his high pitched scream."

The reader can figure it out and visualize as much as they can handle. To do a "blow by blow" Kind of says "See this? wasn;t that terrible? Well wasn't it?"

Anyway just a thought. Sometimes hinting at things makes them stronger.

 

[sr71plt]

Something else that came to my mind is the comment about chilling rather than titillating the reader. So to me you are going out of your way for this scene going over the top. Problem with that is I think I'm using the right term it becomes "contrived" shock fro the sake of shock. You could have it happen quickly and in les detail.

"The blade of the scalpel flashed through the air and at the same time as I felt the thrill of the blade slice through his guilty flesh my ears were treated with the music of his high pitched scream."

The reader can figure it out and visualize as much as they can handle. To do a "blow by blow" Kind of says "See this? wasn;t that terrible? Well wasn't it?"

Anyway just a thought. Sometimes hinting at things makes them stronger.

Shock is an event (and has its place). I think something like this will work better when it's used to prolong and heighten the tension--becoming a process that grabs the reader and won't let go. The "hinting at things" is a function of tension.

I watched Inglourious Basterds on DVD the other night and what Tarantino does with shock and tension in this movie, starting from the very beginning, is marvelous.

And he uses the violence to good shocking effect too. Each time you get to the point of wondering "how are the good guys going to get out of this?" they don't. Even Hitler and Goebbels get it three ways from Sunday, with the viewers' logic telling them that these two have got to be given an out just from historical accuracy.

Shock and tension, that's what the violence can serve well.

Death in sex also has it's classic aspect, which I sometimes explore in a story. The concept of La petite mort, French for "the little death," is a metaphor for orgasm that can be traced all of the way back to Plato and has been brought forward to where it pops out in Stephen Sondheim's A Little Night Music in the song "Every Day a Little Death."

 

[lovecraft68]

Shock is an event (and has its place). I think something like this will work better when it's used to prolong and heighten the tension--becoming a process that grabs the reader and won't let go. The "hinting at things" is a function of tension.

I watched Inglourious Basterds on DVD the other night and what Tarantino does with shock and tension in this movie, starting from the very beginning, is marvelous.

And he uses the violence to good shocking effect too. Each time you get to the point of wondering "how are the good guys going to get out of this?" they don't. Even Hitler and Goebbels get it three ways from Sunday, with the viewers' logic telling them that these two have got to be given an out just from historical accuracy.

Shock and tension, that's what the violence can serve well.

Death in sex also has it's classic aspect, which I sometimes explore in a story. The concept of La petite mort, French for "the little death," is a metaphor for orgasm that can be traced all of the way back to Plato and has been brought forward to where it pops out in Stephen Sondheim's A Little Night Music in the song "Every Day a Little Death."

All this also hinges on the simple fact of can the author pull it off. Tarantino did other directors may not be able to. I am not so sure I could pull that scene off and I just finished publishing a story that ended in an extremely gory fight including the main character biting off a piece of the others face (and this is not non human) In my case the antagonist was so vile people wanted him to take more of a beating. If all the guy whose going to get his nuts clipped did is fuck someones wife it's a lot to handle especially if she was willing.
The reason I say "hint" in this case is due ti the extreme nature as i said let the reader decide how much they want to dwell on it.
As you can see I a ma fan of HP Lovecraft who "hinted" at everything. The words written in the Necronimicon, what Cthulhu really looked like and such. He was once asked why he didn't describe in more detail his answer was not to attempt waht can;t be delivered he described Cthulhu as something that one look could drive you to madness how do you describe that. It is more fun to visualize it yourself. Granted HP wrote in a day long before splatter films and instant gratification.
I think to answer his question. Yes Lit will let him do this. My question becomes more the intangible of do you have to? At least to that detail.

 

[sr71plt]

Was the gory fight necessary to the storyline? I think where violence fails mostly when it doesn't fit as logical or necessary or is overkill to the storyline.

The thrust of erotic is usually very different from this. (Although I see some level of violence as being integral to many forms of the sex act.)

 

[myrionomos]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the castration is described "clinically". Does that mean it's described with clinical detachment? (No pun, honestly.) Or does it mean you go into clinical detail regarding what tissues and veins and vessels etc are severed? Either way could be either chilling or titillating or maybe both, depending on how the scene's written and on who reads it.

I take your point about clinical and mean clinical detachment. The main character has been wronged by his partner and is contemplating an as yet undefined revenge. I am pretty sure the readership (50% anyway) can be taken along on this journey of revenge and will identify and sympathize with him in his general objective. Fortuitously he finds the man who has wronged him in an utterly helpless situation and takes advantage of it. But, my main character lacks the capacity to emote and can therefore act and explain what he has done and sound totally reasonable. The readership (hopefully equipped with normal emotions) hitherto sympathetic will recoil or at least be horribly conflicted. However, the LW component of the readership (the "kill the bitch cheerleaders) might well be cheering, however awful his revenge, and that gives me pause for thought.

Incidentally it is quite possible to castrate a man without knives, blood and gore of any kind; given the right tools it can be done in about 20 Seconds. Thus the violence of intent and result can be stated almost blandly which to my mind is much scarier than graphic (over) description.

Penn Lady "context" and SR 71 plt "tension" also make good points, more work on the latter being definitely required.

This event is not the climax (no pun intended either) of the story but the turning point, the second half being a slow unfolding of his personal inadequacy and the pointlessness of his vengeance.

The biggest problem is that whilst the crucial event makes it "horror," and the story line is essentially LW/ cuckold, it essentially isn't erotic. The lack of an erotic element is making me think more than anything.

Thanks all round, I was aware of some problems but you people have raised other issues which need looking at.

 

[lovecraft68]

Was the gory fight necessary to the storyline? I think where violence fails mostly when it doesn't fit as logical or necessary or is overkill to the storyline.

The thrust of erotic is usually very different from this. (Although I see some level of violence as being integral to many forms of the sex act.)

The tag line for my first chapter was "A story of sex, incest, insanity, and revenge" The violence very much fit the storyline. The gist is the main character was severally abused in a foster home for years was beaten every time he "made to much noise" several years later the main character Mark who is now 21 and a rage fueled paranoid schizophrenic (suffered a psychotic break from the beatings) who has belts in two disciplines of martial arts runs into the foster father in a bar. he befriends him and leads him back to his apartment where he gives him cocaine to "amp" him up so he;ll last longer and has his revenge. The violence fits. Mark has had nightmares of this man fro 10 years and is mentally unbalanced. It is not over the top and builds for all 5 chapters. The feedback on it was excellent so i don;t think I was too crazy with it.

 

[sr71plt]

The tag line for my first chapter was "A story of sex, incest, insanity, and revenge" The violence very much fit the storyline. The gist is the main character was severally abused in a foster home for years was beaten every time he "made to much noise" several years later the main character Mark who is now 21 and a rage fueled paranoid schizophrenic (suffered a psychotic break from the beatings) who has belts in two disciplines of martial arts runs into the foster father in a bar. he befriends him and leads him back to his apartment where he gives him cocaine to "amp" him up so he;ll last longer and has his revenge. The violence fits. Mark has had nightmares of this man fro 10 years and is mentally unbalanced. It is not over the top and builds for all 5 chapters. The feedback on it was excellent so i don;t think I was too crazy with it.

I must admit I kept reading through this to see where the erotica started--and didn't find it. Glad the feedback was excellent though.

 

[oggbashan]

What puzzles me is the extent to which violence is allowable, acceptable and apparently necessary for Hollywood blockbusters, even those aimed at children and teenagers, and yet language with sexual references is not.

Today's newspapers report that the movie "The King's Speech" might have to be edited for release in some US states because the word 'faggot' is used and that use, and that use ALONE, would require a higher age classification.

At the time, it was a shocking word for the King to say given the norms of the time. The impact of using it is a significant moment in the plot. That impact will be lost if another word has to be substituted, yet much graphic violence can be shown to a young audience.

Og

 

[lovecraft68]

I must admit I kept reading through this to see where the erotica started--and didn't find it. Glad the feedback was excellent though.

Very good observation. The story Lex Talionis was written last year and not for a sex site. I added all the erotica. The first chapter has quite a bit. Chapter 2 features him with his sister (1 had him with two women one his age that he dom's and one older that he caters to) 3 has 2 scenes and four has a couple as well. 5 starts with sex then goes into the showdown. I actually had people tell me the sex slowed down the story. I was flattered to be writing on a site like this and have people care more about the story than where he was fucking next.