Al Qaeda In NYC

R. Richard

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The military arrrested two al Qaeda operative in Iraq. They got information regarding a bombing threat in New York City. If you wonder why we are in Iraq, this is one of the reasons. Comment?

QAEDA PLOT TO BOMB SUBWAY

October 7, 2005 -- The NYPD beefed up security on the rails last night after receiving what it called credible and specific information that the subways might be the target of a terror attack.
City officials mobilized cops to scores of subway stations to begin random searches of bags, briefcases and baby strollers.

Homeland Security officials in Washington, however, downplayed the threat, saying it is of "doubtful credibility."

Still, Mayor Bloomberg called it the most specific threat ever to the city's subway system.

"Its importance was enhanced above the normal level by the detail that was available to us from intelligence sources," he said.

Gov. Pataki said he would call up hundreds of National Guard soldiers to bolster patrols on Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North trains.

A law-enforcement official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the threat was "specific to place, time and method" and that the plot involved the use of explosives.

The tip that triggered the massive security sweep came from two al Qaeda militants arrested this week in a joint FBI-CIA-U.S. military raid outside Baghdad, law-enforcement sources told The Post.

The terrorists were described as unemployed chemists who had recently taken a six-week explosive training course in Afghanistan.

The al Qaeda snitches also told U.S. officials that they planned to travel to New York, by way of Syria, with bogus passports.

Once here, they would meet up with 19 operatives who had already been sent to New York to help set off the bombs, the sources said.

The bombs would either be hidden in baby carriages or planted in briefcases similar to those used in this summer's London bus and train bombings.

Bloomberg said the FBI notified the city of the threat in recent days.

NBC News agreed Tuesday to withhold reporting about the plot in order to allow the investigation to proceed.

But Homeland Security Department officials downplayed the threat.

Department spokesman Russ Knocke refused to explain why it was discrediting the tip — or to comment on whether it had originated with the al Qaeda operatives arrested in Iraq.

An official who was briefed on the plot said the threat was considered doubtful because it did not reflect "detailed, pre-surveillance," but information that could be found on the Internet.

He said he believed the NYPD's reaction was taken "out of an abundance of caution."

Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly refused to disclose where the information came from, but said the "level of specificity" of the threat led them to heighten security.

Bloomberg said there is no indication that the threat was linked to this month's Jewish holidays.

He also said no specific stations were mentioned in the threat, and no one has been arrested or detained in New York.

Regional FBI Director Mark Mershon, who appeared with Bloomberg and Kelly at a news conference, said that "classified operatives" had "partially disrupted this threat" and added that "multiple individuals are involved."

Kelly said that while the tip was "not fully corroborated," it was "deemed of sufficient concern to advise the public."

He said the NYPD was beefing up its uniformed and undercover presence on the subways — and stepping up bag checks and random sweeps — with cops from across the city among those being deployed to supplement the normal transit force.

Bloomberg said it was up to New Yorkers to decide whether or not they should use mass transit over the next few days.

But he said it would not stop him from taking the subway to and from work.

"I've looked at the information, and I'm going to take the subway," he said.

The city's security level remained at Code Orange yesterday — the same level since 9/11.

The NYPD began random subway bag searches in July, following the London bombings.

An estimated 4.7 million riders use the city's subway system on an average weekday.
 
R. Richard said:
The military arrrested two al Qaeda operative in Iraq. They got information regarding a bombing threat in New York City. If you wonder why we are in Iraq, this is one of the reasons. Comment?
Were they in Iraq or connected to Iraq before "we" went to Iraq and turned it into a terrorist training camp?


PS: "Department spokesman Russ Knocke refused (...) to comment on whether it had originated with the al Qaeda operatives arrested in Iraq.
 
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Ah, yes. Over 1,100 soldiers dead ... we'll never know how many Iraqis ... and billions spent ... for "intelligence" of "doubtful credibility."

*nods* Wise move, W.

Oh, but we got Saddam. I feel SO much safer now. :rolleyes:
 
And I do have to wonder. I think it had to do with Israel, which has set up shop in the north. I think it had to do with 'he tried to kill my daddy.' I think it had to do with imperial hubris. I think it had to do with the French oil deal which 'our' companies had no cut of. The French company had a deal for such time as the sanctions might be lifted. It was a deal with Saddam Hussein. Suddenly we couldn't lift the sanctions without tossing all that money to someone else's company. Not so long as Saddam was still in charge.
 
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Department spokesman Russ Knocke refused to explain why it was discrediting the tip — or to comment on whether it had originated with the al Qaeda operatives arrested in Iraq.

An official who was briefed on the plot said the threat was considered doubtful because it did not reflect "detailed, pre-surveillance," but information that could be found on the Internet.

Hey, I can provide the same level of intelligence from my living room and spend the $500 billion on cigarettes and coffee.

By the way, there was no Al Qaida in Iraq until we went in there and made it safe for them. Sadam was an animal, but he cracked down harder on them than we ever would have the stomach to do. The last thing he wanted was a religious revolution.

Just another reason why invading Iraq was exactly the wrong thing to do.
 
Don't forget another important reason, media.

A real War on Terror™ is going to be dull from a media standpoint.

No intelligence operative is going to allow a journalist of any stripe near him while working. "Just ignore the camera crew over there. They're not following me around and I'm not a CIA agent."

And when we find the camps where the bad guys hang out and train, no way are we going to allow the truth to come out over the deal we cut to be allowed to hit them. President For Life of Whateverstan: "You want to hit the Al Qaeda camps that are paying me $50 million to stay here? Beat their price. And I want a squadron of F15s."

And when we do hit them no Delta Force or SEAL or Green Beret is going to want the newsies around. Chances are they're so dumb, they'll walk up to the other side's sentries for an interview.

And worst of all, no end to it. No parades, no ticker tape, no news.

Operation Enduring Freedom? Wow! Tanks! (Rumble) Planes! (Zoom) Artillery! (Ka-Boom) Missiles! (Whoosh) In Technicolor©!

And a real cool press conference that announces 'Mission Accomplished!'

So media had a lot to do with the decision to kick the shit out of Iraq.
 
still doesn't explain why we went to IRAQ
just watch farenheit 911 you'll be about as tired of this iraq nonsense as possible.
 
woodnymph_O said:
still doesn't explain why we went to IRAQ
just watch farenheit 911 you'll be about as tired of this iraq nonsense as possible.


I'm not going to start another Michael Moore thread, but if you absolutely want to guarentee anyone who isn't left of Mao tunes you out, sight a Michael Moore movie. Particularly that one.


As to AQ in NYC, can you think of any reason they wouldn't be there? It's a huge, sprawling city with multiple racial, ethnic and cultural enclaves. The heart of the United States's financial world. Also a mjor harbnbor and a major air hub. assuming they aren't here and active would be pretty naive.
 
Colleen Thomas said:
I'm not going to start another Michael Moore thread, but if you absolutely want to guarentee anyone who isn't left of Mao tunes you out, sight a Michael Moore movie. Particularly that one.


As to AQ in NYC, can you think of any reason they wouldn't be there? It's a huge, sprawling city with multiple racial, ethnic and cultural enclaves. The heart of the United States's financial world. Also a mjor harbnbor and a major air hub. assuming they aren't here and active would be pretty naive.

Moore is a nimrod agreed , but current documentation supports the theory that
1: the US government helped the BinLadens leave the country BEFORE they could be questioned
2:The Iraq government had about as much to do with 9-11 as disney did with dungeons and dragons. Yeah they're both fantasy, but thats where the similarity ends.Attacking a country over the actions of an independant orginazation was dumb, and the rest of the world knew that from day one.
This was a bush scapegoat because America was screaming for retribution. I believe he want home and said "Gee who have we been wanting to blow up?"
thats why we're in Iraq.

If you want to say "THIS IS WHY" Show me BinLaden being led in chains out of IRAQ
 
News update.

3rd Suspect Nabbed in Subway Terror Plot

NEW YORK - The investigation into an alleged plot to bomb the city's subway moved forward on several fronts Friday as a third suspect was arrested in Iraq and authorities looked into whether a fourth person had traveled to New York as part of the scheme, officials said.

A law enforcement official familiar with the case said the man's trip to New York was described by an informant who had spent time in Afghanistan and proved reliable in past investigations.

"He's been a source of multiple correct information in the past," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation. "Does that mean a fourth person he identified is in fact in New York? We don't know that."

The official added that authorities had not confirmed whether the fourth man even exists.

Alarmed by the informant's report of a plot to attack city subways with as many as 19 bombs in bags and possibly baby strollers, U.S. forces in Iraq arrested two suspected plotters who had been under close surveillance until Thursday morning, officials said. The third escaped until his arrest Friday.

City officials posted thousands of additional uniformed and plainclothes officers throughout the subway system and warned New Yorkers to keep their eyes open for anything out of the ordinary.

The announcement sparked behind-the-scenes jostling with security officials in Washington, who downplayed the threat and suggested that Mayor Michael Bloomberg may have overreacted.

Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly vigorously defended their reaction Friday.

"We did exactly the right thing," Kelly said.

Those arrested had received explosives training in Afghanistan, a law enforcement official said Friday. They had planned to travel through Syria to New York, and then meet with an unspecified number of operatives to carry out the bombings. The official said that the threat was "specific to place," and that the window for the attack was anywhere from Friday through at least the weekend.

A federal official said one of the suspects arrested in Iraq apparently told interrogators that more than a dozen people were involved in the plot, and that they were of various nationalities, including Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis, the official said.

"There could be one or many," the official said, who had been briefed on the case and spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "We just don't know. There may not be any."

Kelly, Bloomberg and other city officials declined to release details of the alleged plot, saying much of the information was classified.

Bloomberg called the plot report the most specific terrorist threat that New York officials had received to date and said it was essential that authorities err on the side of caution when protecting the city of 8 million.

"If I'm going to make a mistake you can rest assured it is on the side of being cautious," Bloomberg said at a news conference, flanked by Kelly.

A law enforcement official said the informant had failed parts of a polygraph test but appeared to be telling the truth in response to questions dealing with the alleged plot.

But Homeland Security officials in Washington said the threat was of "doubtful credibility."

President Bush said Friday that New York City officials exercised their prerogative in publicizing the threat. Asked if he thought New York officials had overreacted, Bush said: "I think they took the information we gave and made the judgments they thought were necessary."

Near the Port Authority Bus Terminal on Friday, more officers were visible on the streets, and one lane of traffic on Ninth Avenue was reserved for emergency vehicles.

"Hopefully, God's with me and I'll be OK," Vinnie Stella said as he entered the subway at Penn Station.

Rob Johnson, 30, said he was not worried: "The cops have it under control."

In Baghdad, spokesmen for the U.S. military and the U.S. Embassy declined to comment on the arrests.

An estimated 4.5 million passengers ride the New York subway on an average weekday. The system has more than 468 subway stations. In July, the city began random subway searches in the wake of the train bombings in London.
 
I don't understand this. The FBI says it's a threat. Homeland Security says no. Aren't they supposed to be co-ordinating their efforts? Isn't that what the Patriot act was all about?

Doesn't anyone know what's going on?
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Doesn't anyone know what's going on?

Shut up and watch the pretty colours. Threat Level System goes down, Threat Level System goes up. Threat Level System goes down, Threat Level System goes up.
 
I suspect that the entire effort is a real attempt to prevent an attack. The possible attackers have been put on notice that the authorities are aware of the danger and are waiting to catch them. Of course, the citizens of NYC are also now on alert and things would be much more difficult for the attackers from that quarter. [I used to live in NYC and the citizens are (forgive me) suspicious and aggressive by nature. If they think that they may have spotted a terrorist, the NYPD is going to investigate, whether the NYPD wants to or not. If you doubt this last, you have never dealt with an NYC granny.]

The only practical way to get around in Manhattan is via subway. The subways are packed during rush hour and a bomb blast would kill hundreds. [The subways, under normal conditions are not that bad, except that I can never eat sardines again.] The police may be prohibited from doing racial profiling, NYC commuters ( especially grannys) are not.

The information comes from Iraq and from prisoners taken in Iraq. The prisoners are most probably NOT Iraqis; most of the "insurgents" are non-Iraqis. If you need information, you have to gt it where you can. Non-Iraqi prisoners captured under war conditions are not subject to the Geneva convention. [Actually, they fall under the heading of banditry. If you want to know how such bandits are typically dealt with, it is with a bullet in the back of the head.] Such non-Iraqi prisoners can typically be mined for information, due to their rather tenuous legal state.

I used to be in the business.
 
No matter the reality of the threat, it was still disconcerting to have been riding the NYC subways on Thursday afternoon, get above ground and then learn of the situation.
 
Let me add some information to the interchange here. As LilElvis has pointed out, if you live in NYC, you may have a somewhat different viewpoint of the techniques used to interrogate prisoners in Iraq or elsewhere. What is happening, not just in Iraq, but worldwide, is really World War III. The USA is facing an enemy who breaks all of the Genva Convention rules of warefare. The enemy hides among civilians, fights with no sign that they are soldiers, attacks civilians and uses weapons proscribed by the GC. I hope that you will forgive me, but I don't care what they do to the jihadis in Iraq or in Guantanamo. If they save one innocent life by use of aggressive questioning techniques, it is one life bought at no cost to me. Comment?

Memo: NYC Attack Was Scheduled for Sunday

NEW YORK - Details emerged about an alleged plot to attack the city's subways with bombs hidden in bags and possibly baby strollers as local and federal officials jostled over the credibility of the threat.

A Department of Homeland Security memo obtained by The Associated Press said the attack was reportedly scheduled to take place on or around Sunday, with terrorists using timed or remote-controlled explosives hidden in briefcases, suitcases or in or under strollers.

The memo said that the department had received information indicating the attack might be carried out by "a team of terrorist operatives, some of whom may travel or who may be in the New York City area."

The memo, issued Wednesday to state and local officials, said that homeland security and FBI agents doubted the credibility of the information, but it provided four pages of advice about averting a possible attack.

In Iraq, authorities detained a third suspect in the plot and investigated whether a fourth had traveled to New York as part of the scheme, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the case.

The official said the man's trip to New York was described by an informant who had spent time in Afghanistan and proved reliable in past investigations. But the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, added that authorities had not confirmed whether the fourth man even exists.

Those arrested had received explosives training in Afghanistan, the law enforcement official said Friday. They had planned to travel through Syria to New York, and then meet with operatives to carry out the bombings.

A federal official said one of the suspects arrested in Iraq apparently told interrogators that more than a dozen people were involved in the plot, and that they were of various nationalities, including Afghans, Syrians and Iraqis. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Several of these details related to the suspects were first reported by ABC News.

In Baghdad, spokespeople for the U.S. military and the U.S. Embassy declined to comment about the arrests. Department of Homeland Security spokesman Brian Doyle also said the government has no information that the fourth person possibly connected to the plot "is either here or even exists."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the military obtained intelligence information "during the normal course of our operations." The intelligence led to a military raid in Iraq this week that was conducted by Iraqi security forces, backed by U.S. troops, Whitman said, but added that there was no direct link between the raid and the New York subway threat.

Homeland security officials in Washington downplayed the threat and said it was of "doubtful credibility."

But Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly vigorously defended their decision to discuss the threat publicly Thursday.

"If I'm going to make a mistake you can rest assured it is on the side of being cautious," Bloomberg said at a news conference Friday.

President Bush, asked Friday if he thought New York officials had overreacted, said: "I think they took the information we gave and made the judgments they thought were necessary."

In New York, thousands of extra police officers flooded the city's subway system, pulling commuters out of rush-hour crowds and rifling through their bags or briefcases.

"Hopefully, God's with me and I'll be OK," Vinnie Stella said while clutching newspapers under his arm as he entered the subway at Penn Station.

An estimated 4.5 million passengers ride the New York subway on an average weekday. The system has more than 468 subway stations. In July, the city began random subway searches in the wake of the train bombings in London.
 
RR, living in New York or not, a desire for retribution is nothing to be proud of.
 
cantdog said:
RR, living in New York or not, a desire for retribution is nothing to be proud of.

cantdog:
I am not interested in retribution. I am interested in saving American lives. The people who we are interrogating in Iraq or Guantanamo are interested in killing people who will not bow down to them. You might also notice that the people they want to kill also include other Muslims. The people we capture have no legal rights under interantional law. What they get is no concern of law abiding citizens.

JMNTHO.
 
John McCain

I guess this fellow isn't a law-abiding citizen, then. Or perhaps he's poking his nose in where it does not belong?

Whichever, he does seem to see the American lives thing pretty clearly and he has a different take on it.
 
I love the restraint with which he goes about it. I'm not particularly restrained, myself. Torturing pricks and the people who hide and protect them are all the same.

I am editing this to add a quotation from the document.
Confusion about the rules results in abuses in the field. We need a clear, simple, and consistent standard, and we have it in the Army Field Manual on Interrogation. That’s not just my opinion, but that of many more distinguished military minds than mine. I would refer you to a letter expressing strong support for this amendment, signed by 28 former high-ranking military officers, including General Joseph Hoar, who commanded Centcom; General John Shalikashvili, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs; RADM John Hutson and RADM Don Guter, who each served as the Navy’s top JAG; and LTGEN Claudia Kennedy, who served as Deputy Chief of Staff for Army Intelligence. These and other distinguished officers believe that the abuses at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and elsewhere took place in part because our soldiers received ambiguous instructions, which in some cases authorized treatment that went beyond what the Field Manual allows, and that, had the Manual been followed across the board, we could have avoided the prisoner abuse scandal. Mr. President, wouldn’t any of us do whatever we could to have prevented that? By passing this amendment, our service members can follow the Manual consistently from now on. Our troops deserve no less.

Cruel, Inhumane, Degrading Treatment

The second part of this amendment really shouldn’t be objectionable to anyone since I’m actually not proposing anything new. The prohibition against cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment has been a longstanding principle in both law and policy in the United States. Before I get into why this amendment is necessary, let me first review the history.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted in 1948, states simply that “No one shall be subject to torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which the U.S. is a signatory, states the same. The binding Convention Against Torture, negotiated by the Reagan administration and ratified by the Senate, prohibits cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. On last year’s DOD Authorization bill, the Senate passed a bipartisan amendment reaffirming that no detainee in U.S. custody can be subject to torture or cruel treatment, as the U.S. has long defined those terms. All of this seems to be common sense, in accordance with longstanding American values.

But since last year’s DOD bill, a strange legal determination was made that the prohibition in the Convention Against Torture against cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment does not legally apply to foreigners held outside the U.S. They can, apparently, be treated inhumanely. This is the administration’s position, even though Judge Abe Soafer, who negotiated the Convention Against Torture for President Reagan, said in a recent letter that the Reagan administration never intended the prohibition against cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment to apply only on U.S. soil.

What all this means is that America is the only country in the world that asserts a legal right to engage in cruel and inhuman treatment. But the crazy thing is that it is not even necessary, because the Administration has said that it will not engage in cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment as a matter of policy. What this also means is that confusion about the rules becomes rampant again. We have so many differing legal standards and loopholes that our lawyers and generals are confused – just imagine our troops serving in prisons and the field.

So the amendment I am offering simply codifies what is current policy and reaffirms what was assumed to be existing law for years. In light of the administration’s stated commitment, it should require no change in our current interrogation and detention practices. What it would do is restore clarity on a simple and fundamental question: Does America treat people inhumanely? My answer is no, and from all I’ve seen, America’s answer has always been no.

Mr. President, let me just close by noting that I hold no brief for the prisoners. I do hold a brief for the reputation of the United States of America. We are Americans, and we hold ourselves to humane standards of treatment of people no matter how evil or terrible they may be. To do otherwise undermines our security, but it also undermines our greatness as a nation. We are not simply any other country. We stand for something more in the world – a moral mission, one of freedom and democracy and human rights at home and abroad. We are better than these terrorists, and we will we win. The enemy we fight has no respect for human life or human rights. They don’t deserve our sympathy. But this isn’t about who they are. This is about who we are. These are the values that distinguish us from our enemies.

I urge my colleagues to support this amendment.
 
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Actually, the people who "hide" Al Qaeda are often doing so because any other action would result in the deaths of the hiders and their families.

The best solution is to take the latest captive who seems to know the least, tatoo the Arabic for "Al Qaeda" on his face and cheeks and turn him loose, naked with the warning, "If we find you again, we will kill you and anyone who is with you." You then make sure that all Iraqis who live in houses know what tatoo boy knows.

The treatment may be degrading, but the next guy in line will suddenly remember the who and where of his comrades [make that ex-comrades] plus supply lines, facilitators in Syria or Iran and a wealth of information that can be used to prevent future attacks in and out of Iraq.
 
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