Ain't No Time for Hate

[DVS]

I spent my "motherhood years" (about 10 of them) as one of the only conservatives in my group of peers. A Birkinstock wearing, non-vaccinating, personally pro-life leaning, home birthing, anti-medical establishment, un-schooling [radical homeschooling], health food eating, attachment parenting... conservative. The only thing that separated me from my peers was my politics.

Liberal or conservative - people are people.

I don't consider myself the run of the mill conservative, either. I'm not against gays, at all. I don't believe God would condemn them, although that's what I hear from conservative people. Gays and lesbians are just people, no different than I am. I believe they were born that way, and have no choice other than to be what they are. To say they could reform, as many conservatives say they could, is stupid.

But, I consider myself religious. I feel Christian, in many ways, but if I have to believe God would condemn gays to hell, I'm not Christian. So, I believe in my own thing. I don't go to an organized church, because I feel many there are just hypocritical in repenting what they would continue to do, again.

I don't see why someone must believe in everything a group does, to be considered a member of that group. I'm liberal in some ways, and conservative in others. But, when it comes to politics, I lean to the right. I'm not completely so, which would make me a die hard republican, but I do tend to side with them more than with democrats.

Maybe I'm a liberal conservative? A moderate? An independent with conservative leanings? I've always hated labels in BDSM. I'm no Master, as the label stands for. I think that label has been grossly overdone by many who just want a cool sounding name. Master Status and Lord Pompous...

I guess I'm a Dom, but I don't adhere to some of those label traits, either. I like controlling and topping, but that's about it. For instance, I do enjoy being in charge, but only in the bedroom. I like leading a vanilla life, except for that.

When I tell someone I'm an independent with leanings to the right, I'm labeled republican, or conservative, with everything that goes with that label, and I hate that.

So, I see myself saying the same thing in my politics as I do in BDSM. I don't fit in any of the defined groups. So, maybe I'm a nonconformist? Now, would that then make me a nonconformist sexual Dom with conservative political leanings? It's much easier to say I'm just me.

 

[Netzach]

Maybe liberals don't see liberals as hateful and conservatives don't see sonservatives as hateful because those are the people that they are around the most?

I will freely admit to growing up in downtown NYC, a left wing sort of neighborhood to say the least, going to a very hippy-dippy elementery school, on to an extremely liberal middle and high school and now into a liberal-leaning college in Boston. I don't have a whole shit ton of experience with those of a conservative persuasion, and am almost afraid of becoming friends with peers who I know do lean to the right, because I don't want to fight with my friends.

Maybe I (and other liberal leaning folks) see conservatives to be more hateful because they have less experience with them, and the experiences they do have are bad ones. I know that most of my experience with conservatives is being told that I'm going to hell, for example.

On this thread, those with conservative leanings seem (maybe I'm wrong on this) to have limited experience with liberals and vice versa. Maybe its just the fact that we are all surrounded by people of like mind that we see others to be more hateful than those we consider our friends and peers.

Jesus. Is this how it is?

In school I had a lot of friends who were fiscally conservative econ majors going to make bank after school, and that was what they were there for.

We had this ability, you see, in the snuggle of the ivory tower, to completely disagree with another person and then go have coffee.

Maybe my school more than others. I know in the consortium program I did, other people were like "but you and that guy were totally screaming at each other and now you're having like, LUNCH!" from other schools.

I've run into this even on this board. This idea that I can't vehemently disagree with someone about something and not be like, "I hate your guts." That it's not personal. I'm entitled to think your deeply held idea is utterly stupid, just as you are about mine, and man...get over it. We're human beings who want to put food on the table at the end of the day. I'm not going to pretend to like your idea though, because that compromises me as a human being dedicated to my own.

I hold my ideas rather passionately, but if I didn't know how to agree to disagree and love people who aren't in agreement with me, I'd have offed my whole family long ago.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I don't consider myself the run of the mill conservative, either. I'm not against gays, at all. I don't believe God would condemn them, although that's what I hear from conservative people. Gays and lesbians are just people, no different than I am. I believe they were born that way, and have no choice other than to be what they are. To say they could reform, as many conservatives say they could, is stupid.

But, I consider myself religious. I feel Christian, in many ways, but if I have to believe God would condemn gays to hell, I'm not Christian. So, I believe in my own thing. I don't go to an organized church, because I feel many there are just hypocritical in repenting what they would continue to do, again.

I don't see why someone must believe in everything a group does, to be considered a member of that group. I'm liberal in some ways, and conservative in others. But, when it comes to politics, I lean to the right. I'm not completely so, which would make me a die hard republican, but I do tend to side with them more than with democrats.

Maybe I'm a liberal conservative? A moderate? An independent with conservative leanings? I've always hated labels in BDSM. I'm no Master, as the label stands for. I think that label has been grossly overdone by many who just want a cool sounding name. Master Status and Lord Pompous...

I guess I'm a Dom, but I don't adhere to some of those label traits, either. I like controlling and topping, but that's about it. For instance, I do enjoy being in charge, but only in the bedroom. I like leading a vanilla life, except for that.

When I tell someone I'm an independent with leanings to the right, I'm labeled republican, or conservative, with everything that goes with that label, and I hate that.

So, I see myself saying the same thing in my politics as I do in BDSM. I don't fit in any of the defined groups. So, maybe I'm a nonconformist? Now, would that then make me a nonconformist sexual Dom with conservative political leanings? It's much easier to say I'm just me.

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.

Jesus. Is this how it is?

In school I had a lot of friends who were fiscally conservative econ majors going to make bank after school, and that was what they were there for.

We had this ability, you see, in the snuggle of the ivory tower, to completely disagree with another person and then go have coffee.

Maybe my school more than others. I know in the consortium program I did, other people were like "but you and that guy were totally screaming at each other and now you're having like, LUNCH!" from other schools.

I've run into this even on this board. This idea that I can't vehemently disagree with someone about something and not be like, "I hate your guts." That it's not personal. I'm entitled to think your deeply held idea is utterly stupid, just as you are about mine, and man...get over it. We're human beings who want to put food on the table at the end of the day. I'm not going to pretend to like your idea though, because that compromises me as a human being dedicated to my own.

I hold my ideas rather passionately, but if I didn't know how to agree to disagree and love people who aren't in agreement with me, I'd have offed my whole family long ago.

You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

 

[Evil_Geoff]

...

I've run into this even on this board. This idea that I can't vehemently disagree with someone about something and not be like, "I hate your guts." That it's not personal. I'm entitled to think your deeply held idea is utterly stupid, just as you are about mine, and man...get over it. We're human beings who want to put food on the table at the end of the day. I'm not going to pretend to like your idea though, because that compromises me as a human being dedicated to my own.

I hold my ideas rather passionately, but if I didn't know how to agree to disagree and love people who aren't in agreement with me, I'd have offed my whole family long ago.

Preach on Sister Netzach, preach on!

See... Netz and I have butted heads on things a time or two, me and catalina don't always see eye-to-eye... and I can't say how they feel, but I LIKE them and respect them as human beings and that's regardless of their status/orientation in the lifestyle.

I can disagree with an idea without finding the person who believes that idea disagreeable. Bright, intelligent, articulate, witty people with good senses of humor and a tolerance for ideas not their own get huge props in my book. They may not get my agreement, but I can certainly be agreeable.

We now return to silent Mouse stalking mode...

 

[WriterDom]

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.


You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

Good morning doll!

We have a local board with two guys on the far left. It's nice though, we can argue without the insults.

My last two subs were pretty liberal. The last thanked me after it was over for not making her watch Fox News.

 

[Netzach]

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.


You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

Well, when I go home my mother and my grandmother drop Ann Coulter lines about what should be done to liberals. Because they want to bait me. My grandfather told me to my face that the queers deserved Hitler's camps. Not knowing about me at the time, but knowing the effect that would have on me. I can love them but I'm not a masochist - I don't go home that often. It's not the politics, it's that these people would use them against their own child like that. The family's small enough, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Good morning doll!

We have a local board with two guys on the far left. It's nice though, we can argue without the insults.

My last two subs were pretty liberal. The last thanked me after it was over for not making her watch Fox News.

Take all that back! It's a kiss of death to acknowledge you're a friend of mine.
I wouldn't want to tarnish your reputation here, hon.

 

[Netzach]

Good morning doll!

We have a local board with two guys on the far left. It's nice though, we can argue without the insults.

My last two subs were pretty liberal. The last thanked me after it was over for not making her watch Fox News.

Could you negotiate with my family perhaps?

 

[Evil_Geoff]

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.


You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

*pops out of Mouse stalking a moment... *

ADR...

I'm a born-again Christian, sexually straight, white, male, registered Republican (though I don't necessarily vote that way), flogger swinging, fireplaying, evil sadistic bastard. The Liberals hate my demographic, not me personally.

I don't think.

Do you really think it's us against them?

If it is, wanna come hide in my fort, little girl?

 

[Netzach]

I can disagree with an idea without finding the person who believes that idea disagreeable. Bright, intelligent, articulate, witty people with good senses of humor and a tolerance for ideas not their own get huge props in my book. They may not get my agreement, but I can certainly be agreeable.

OMG, yes. There's this idea that I can't possibly hear ideas other than my own. I can, if they're respectably thought out.

I can deal with Buckley (miss him in fact) or George Will, or Russel Safire or Edward Said. The highly *intelligent* conservative is on the run and in short supply however, because the party line seems to be that if you went to school who should listen to you, you elitist?

Most self professed conservatives have no idea who the people I just name-checked are, BTW.

 

[DVS]

I just watched the video, and I agree with Moyers on many points. Of course, that guy wasn't mentally stable, to be going in and killing people like that. I think we all will agree with that.

And I also think his reasoning is skewed, too. Just like people who say video games triggered their violent activity, I don't think anyone is to blame for what he did, except himself.

I do understand that we have people on the airwaves that are a bit over the top, but if someone wasn't listening to them, they wouldn't be there. And as for the shock jocks, just as the video said...they need more and more shock to get their listeners to listen. I'm not a fan of shock jocks for that reason. They just seem to stir up trouble. Savage's words tend to fit his name.

I've tried not to let my coworkers know my leanings, because I work with quite a few liberals. I won't say why they are liberal, but they are. And, there are a few non-descript idiots in my coworkers, too. Those pretty much hate both parties equally, and I wonder why we allow them to vote.

I've been moved around, in my job and for some reason, many of my coworkers in my present line of work have been liberal. Two individuals I can think of, not from the same work place, were hateful of conservatives. So much so, they wouldn't even listen to anything I had to say.

It was almost like they had a script and when they heard certain trigger words from me, they would jump to conclusions and make generalizations. Often they would interrupt and loudly spew these at me, as if that would somehow help get their views understood. I could understand this, if they were being bashed by a group of conservatives, but in a one on one talk, it's just rude and nothing is accomplished.

Recently, another coworker and I were talking about Gov. Palin. He had just watched the ABC interview the night before and was telling me she was an idiot and had no reason to be running for anything. He was also venting about her husband being targeted to expose his wife's hateful ways, saying she would soon be "going down" as in being exposed for the fake she is.

He went on to say she had no right to have another kid, at her age. She had enough, and there was no way she was able to be Gov. AND give her family enough time, too.

Then, he got really hateful. He said she should have aborted the Downs Syndrome baby, when she found out it wasn't normal. This went along with his "she has enough kids already" rant. He called the baby "her Downy" and said they all looked alike.

I have a sister that was born with Downs Syndrome, and although I didn't tell him this, I told him he shouldn't say things like that, because someone could be offended. He quickly said he didn't know why, repeating that they all looked alike and that they were retards, etc. He again repeated that Palin had no reason to be getting pregnant at her age.

There's more, but I don't see a point in posting some of the rest. He just didn't like Palin...except he did say she is hot, and he'd like to do her. Of course, he will say that about any pretty woman. Yes, we men are like that, sometimes.

You might consider this guy extreme, but in the past, he's has been pretty cool headed about things. We've had discussions before, without him going on a rant like that. But, he does have his mind set on his liberal views. And, there's nothing wrong with that, as I feel strongly about my views, too. I don't know what triggered his rant. Maybe there was something in the in the ABC interview.

I don't know why people say such hateful things about candidates. I don't say bad things about Obama, or his wife, or Biden, either. I know some people that do, but even with them, I bite my lip and keep quiet. I guess we just all feel strongly about our views.

We are all human. We all make mistakes. Presidents down in history have made mistakes, and have also done wonderful things, too. They aren't perfect. It's not an easy job to know every little detail and not make some mistakes.

Now, those who lean more liberal can surely tell you similar stories about conservatives they encounter. But, I'd like to think that for the most part, we all are being sensible about our views and will see through the political crap that is shown in the media and seek out the real person we want to vote for. I also hope that even though some will seem extreme when they talk, they will be sensible about who they vote for.

 

[Netzach]

If you really don't have a problem with the gays, though, folks, not that everyone should be a single issue voter - why/how can you vote over and over and over for people who DO. HUGELY.

Whose problems with "the gays" are going to affect how the same people you know and like as people are going to live their day to day?

If I had a candidate who could hand me the little world I dream of on a string, including the dreamiest economic policy in the world, with the exception that they were going to outlaw marriages and all marriage-like contracts of all Latino people, I don't think I'd be voting for them!

Chalk this up to "I do not get this."

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I can deal with Buckley (miss him in fact) or George Will, or Russel Safire or Edward Said...

William F. Buckley was the bomb-diggity of conservative commentators. The man was civil and on point in debate, gracious in defeat, and magnanimous in victory. He knew his stuff. I miss him as well.

How did we go from the Buckley's and Will's representing conservative thought to the Pat Buchanon's and Pat Robertson's???

Gawd, I miss Barry Goldwater. *sighs*

 

[A Desert Rose]

*pops out of Mouse stalking a moment... *

ADR...

I'm a born-again Christian, sexually straight, white, male, registered Republican (though I don't necessarily vote that way), flogger swinging, fireplaying, evil sadistic bastard. The Liberals hate my demographic, not me personally.

I don't think.

Do you really think it's us against them?

If it is, wanna come hide in my fort, little girl?

I've had people on this particular board tell me that they could never respect me because I have conservative leanings. (never on a thread but in PM.)

I've seen posts that stated no respect for anyone who followed the Pope as the leader of a Church. (I'm a Catholic and have made no secret of that.)

I've been called filthy names on threads because I have conservative leanings.

I almost never post about religion and never post on a political thread, anymore.

I'm not against or hate anyone at Lit because of their political leanings.

 

[Netzach]

William F. Buckley was the bomb-diggity of conservative commentators. The man was civil and on point in debate, gracious in defeat, and magnanimous in victory. He knew his stuff. I miss him as well.

How did we go from the Buckley's and Will's representing conservative thought to the Pat Buchanon's and Pat Robertson's???

Gawd, I miss Barry Goldwater. *sighs*

Yeah, well, I think you're empathizing with Etoile's question in the beginning.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Take all that back! It's a kiss of death to acknowledge you're a friend of mine.
I wouldn't want to tarnish your reputation here, hon.

I've met ADR and consider her a friend!

So there!

Neeeener-neeener-neeeeeeener!

*LOL Talk about intelligent political debate! *LOL*

 

[intothewoods]

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.


You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

I don't hate you, and I'm on the left in this forum.

I don't even hate WriterDom. I just ocasionally want to throw things at him. Really heavy, hard things, possibly with points on the end of them. *whistles innocently*

 

[00Syd]

Depends. I honestly think that those what fall under the "conservative" appellation are a more forced coalition than those under the "liberal" umbrella. Honestly, I refuse to call myself conservative any more simply because I'm so bloody tired of some of the jackholes that (incorrectly) label themselves conservative (fun people like, y'know, Limbaugh). So I started saying that I was more of a "Goldwater Conservative", as Barry was some good shit. Then the jackholes started corrupting that term.

So I started to lean libertarian, but, well, they're pretty much batshit insane as a party. The principles are great, but, wow, looney in even moderate numbers. These days I just call myself a minarchist and let people scratch their heads.

Regardless, language is part of the issue here. The average conservative being tarred by the broad brush in this thread doesn't "hate" anyone, any more than the average liberal does. Intolerant bigots rarely hate those they are intolerant of, assholey though they may be. The language used is more hateful, sure, but so long as they do not act on it they're just being ill-mannered, small-minded louts.

"Hate" has become watered down by over-use.

I agree that language is a big issue here. Like when I said that people were starting to lump Homophobia and sexism and racism in with "conservatism" when all of those things are not inherently related. People associate certain personal beliefs with political beliefs and that is, in my opinion, where a lot of the notion of "oh, all of those people personally hate me."

I also agree that the term "hate" is being overused here, and that what we are really talking about is a vehemence of language and rudeness.

I spent my "motherhood years" (about 10 of them) as one of the only conservatives in my group of peers. A Birkinstock wearing, non-vaccinating, personally pro-life leaning, home birthing, anti-medical establishment, un-schooling [radical homeschooling], health food eating, attachment parenting... conservative. The only thing that separated me from my peers was my politics.

Liberal or conservative - people are people.

Agreed. I just wanted to put forth the idea that maybe people just weren't having experience with the other side of the coin and turning people of opposite political beliefs into the "other," but maybe that's just my narrow experience.

My mother refuses to even try and see things from another persons point of view. She is very liberal and, in my opinion, pretty close-minded. Whenever we start talking politics or religion, even though we both agree on the topic at hand, we always end up arguing because I try and see things from the opposite point of view, and try to understand why someone might see things differently than me, but she absolutely refuses to even try. To her, anything to do with religion is evil and hateful, and she won't even try to see the good in humanity and society that comes from religion. All of our fights come from my frustration with her inability to see things two different ways.

In my opinion, the problem isn't the opposing views or the rudeness or whathaveyou, but the refusal to talk and the refusal to try and understand.

Jesus. Is this how it is?

In school I had a lot of friends who were fiscally conservative econ majors going to make bank after school, and that was what they were there for.

We had this ability, you see, in the snuggle of the ivory tower, to completely disagree with another person and then go have coffee.

Maybe my school more than others. I know in the consortium program I did, other people were like "but you and that guy were totally screaming at each other and now you're having like, LUNCH!" from other schools.

I've run into this even on this board. This idea that I can't vehemently disagree with someone about something and not be like, "I hate your guts." That it's not personal. I'm entitled to think your deeply held idea is utterly stupid, just as you are about mine, and man...get over it. We're human beings who want to put food on the table at the end of the day. I'm not going to pretend to like your idea though, because that compromises me as a human being dedicated to my own.

I hold my ideas rather passionately, but if I didn't know how to agree to disagree and love people who aren't in agreement with me, I'd have offed my whole family long ago.

I haven't even really had much of an opportunity to meet people with opposing views to me. I like to think that I would be able to make great friends with people of all different minds, but I just don't know. Maybe it would have been good for me to go to a school with a more diverse range of opinions, but I just don't know.

I guess that's one thing that my mother has up on me.. one of her best childhood friends is a die-hard republican.

I think this speaks less to my tolerance, and more to my cowardice.

In my experience at Lit when I've done that, they hated me and let me know so in no uncertain terms. That has not changed at all.


You are in a minority, once again, then. Most people on the left in this forum hate me, I know it and they know virtually nothing about my politics.

Like I said, it's a them against us mentality.... "Why do THEY hate US (or me) so much?"

I don't personally hate anyone for their political beliefs, on lit or otherwise, and I have yet to encounter anyone on Lit that is that way.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've met ADR and consider her a friend!

So there!

Neeeener-neeener-neeeeeeener!

*LOL Talk about intelligent political debate! *LOL*

Thanks and I like you too. ;-)

Meeting someone makes a lot of difference, doesn't it? I look pretty normal in the flesh... not some green faced, red eyed, frothing mouthed hate monger.

Hey come to think of it.... you looked pretty normal too!

 

[A Desert Rose]

I haven't even really had much of an opportunity to meet people with opposing views to me. I like to think that I would be able to make great friends with people of all different minds, but I just don't know. Maybe it would have been good for me to go to a school with a more diverse range of opinions, but I just don't know.

I don't personally hate anyone for their political beliefs, on lit or otherwise, and I have yet to encounter anyone on Lit that is that way.

Maybe by the time you're 40 that will change.

And lucky for you that most people on Lit seem to share your views.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

A question pertaining to the Bill Moyers piece...has anybody ever seen liberals preach violence in the way the talkers portrayed on Bill Moyers do? Sure, give somebody a microphone and they'll say all kinds of stuff. But the UU church attack was somebody who believed what he was told. The right-wing talkers Bill Moyers showed preach violence against people. Do liberals do that?

Certainly. Ever heard of eco-terrorists? PETA? The more extreme women's libber's who spout off about all sex being violence and men should be castrated?

I could go on but you get the idea. Yes, there are plenty of folks on the left side of the political agenda that will preach violence as the way to solve problems, people getting hurt or killed in the process be damned.

The entire lot of them, those people preaching violence as the way to solve problems, both liberal and conservative, should be taken out back and whipped.

And yes, I am well aware of the contradictory nature of my proposed solution but if anyone is willing to volunteer for whipping practice, please PM me...

 

[Netzach]

I've had people on this particular board tell me that they could never respect me because I have conservative leanings. (never on a thread but in PM.)

I've seen posts that stated no respect for anyone who followed the Pope as the leader of a Church. (I'm a Catholic and have made no secret of that.)

I've been called filthy names on threads because I have conservative leanings.

I almost never post about religion and never post on a political thread, anymore.

I'm not against or hate anyone at Lit because of their political leanings.

You know, I've been thinking about this. I've gotten PM's flaming me for being a feminist. I've been told to leave the country because I'm a loser on this thread, because I believe in a more compassionate fiscal direction. I've been called filthy names because I have liberal leanings. I've had my destruction as a Zionist pig be called for on the GB. While being critical of contemporary Zionism and the Israeli gov't, amusingly enough. I've also had it implied that I must be a muslim or a self-hater and I should die in my own vomit or something to that charming effect.

The upshot, is that I don't really bother with the GB because relatively intelligent argumentative threads get overrun by mentally ill people with no communications skills quickly. As for the rest, such is life. It's not that different from anywhere else I go.

 

[Netzach]

Certainly. Ever heard of eco-terrorists? PETA? The more extreme women's libber's who spout off about all sex being violence and men should be castrated?

I could go on but you get the idea. Yes, there are plenty of folks on the left side of the political agenda that will preach violence as the way to solve problems, people getting hurt or killed in the process be damned.

The entire lot of them, those people preaching violence as the way to solve problems, both liberal and conservative, should be taken out back and whipped.

And yes, I am well aware of the contradictory nature of my proposed solution but if anyone is willing to volunteer for whipping practice, please PM me...

How many of those women are out there attacking baby boys with scissors, EG?

 

[A Desert Rose]

You know, I've been thinking about this. I've gotten PM's flaming me for being a feminist. I've been told to leave the country because I'm a loser on this thread, because I believe in a more compassionate fiscal direction. I've been called filthy names because I have liberal leanings. I've had my destruction as a Zionist pig be called for on the GB.

And you have thcker skin than I have. I admire that.

I don't say those things on threads or in PM. to anyone. ever. I would expect the same in return. But you don't get what you expect.

 

[rosco rathbone]

You obviously haven't met the same liberals I have IRL.

For real.

Speaking as a leftie myself, some of the most angry people I know are left.