AI Guidelines

[Angeline]

Over the past few months I've received a bunch of reports claiming a poem posted here on the forum is AI, that is Artificial Intelligence, not created by a human. Most of these reports cite Pangram, an online AI detector, as judging the poem in question to be artificially generated. According to what I've read, Pangram is supposed to be very good at accurate AI detection, especially of work 50 words or more. Just out of curiosity I ran some poems through their detector and only a few were id'd as artificially generated.

I realized this means we need some sort of position on AI on this forum. So here it is:

First, I have no way of being sure a poem is AI. I don't think it's fair to judge that on the basis of some proprietary AI detector, no matter how accurate it's supposed to be. Nor do I want to spend my time here scouring posts to try and guess if an actual person wrote them. I'd rather write a poem or read yours.

Second, Literotica does have some guidelines regarding AI. You can read about them here. They apply to material published on Lit, not material posted on the forum. That's an important distinction. If someone here is posting an AI generated poem they're not going to be subject to the scrutiny they might receive if they're submitting that poem for official Literotica publication.

So reports that so-and-so's poem is AI will be rejected unless Lit develops a policy regarding poems posted on the forum. And on a personal note, if someone does use AI to make poems they're losing the opportunity to create their own art. That's just my opinion and I can see how someone might disagree but as I've said here before I'm old fashioned!

And FYI a statement summarizing this will be added to the forum's guidelines.

 

[Angeline]

I should add that using a spell checker or even a grammar checker is not equal to asking Alexa or Gemini or your phone's predictive text generator, etc to write a poem for you. Just saying!

 

[12oclocktales]

Over the past few months I've received a bunch of reports claiming a poem posted here on the forum is AI, that is Artificial Intelligence, not created by a human. Most of these reports cite Pangram, an online AI detector, as judging the poem in question to be artificially generated. According to what I've read, Pangram is supposed to be very good at accurate AI detection, especially of work 50 words or more. Just out of curiosity I ran some poems through their detector and only a few were id'd as artificially generated.

I realized this means we need some sort of position on AI on this forum. So here it is:

First, I have no way of being sure a poem is AI. I don't think it's fair to judge that on the basis of some proprietary AI detector, no matter how accurate it's supposed to be. Nor do I want to spend my time here scouring posts to try and guess if an actual person wrote them. I'd rather write a poem or read yours.

Second, Literotica does have some guidelines regarding AI. You can read about them here. They apply to material published on Lit, not material posted on the forum. That's an important distinction. If someone here is posting an AI generated poem they're not going to be subject to the scrutiny they might receive if they're submitting that poem for official Literotica publication.

So reports that so-and-so's poem is AI will be rejected unless Lit develops a policy regarding poems posted on the forum. And on a personal note, if someone does use AI to make poems they're losing the opportunity to create their own art. That's just my opinion and I can see how someone might disagree but as I've said here before I'm old fashioned!

And FYI a statement summarizing this will be added to the forum's guidelines.

As you mention, Pangram says it needs at least 50 words of text to analyze before it can give a “reliable” prediction about it being AI or not; many other AI detection places (a majority, it seems) require at least 300 words. None of this matters on the story side of Lit where 750 words are the minimum allowed, but might present a problem here. One question is why the wide discrepancy between Pangram’s 50 and so many others’ 300, something I have not the interest, time, or know-how to explore. To me, they’re all just guessing games, anyway. I think you’re laissez faire approach is a good one. There is something just weird about machines acting as a tribunal passing judgment on humans. (No AI used in writing this post, though AI strongly disagrees with the final sentence.)

 

[Angeline]

As you mention, Pangram says it needs at least 50 words of text to analyze before it can give a “reliable” prediction about it being AI or not; many other AI detection places (a majority, it seems) require at least 300 words. None of this matters on the story side of Lit where 750 words are the minimum allowed, but might present a problem here. One question is why the wide discrepancy between Pangram’s 50 and so many others’ 300, something I have not the interest, time, or know-how to explore. To me, they’re all just guessing games, anyway. I think you’re laissez faire approach is a good one. There is something just weird about machines acting as a tribunal passing judgment on humans. (No AI used in writing this post, though AI strongly disagrees with the final sentence.)

Thanks 12. I appreciate your weighing in on this AI business on our forum. We've been getting an increasing number of moderator reports that this or that poem is AI generated and I was rejecting them (because how can I determine that?). I usually prefer to not make a fuss about stuff, but realized it had to be addressed. I suppose Lit policy regarding AI and forum posts may change down the line, but for now it's not an issue.

 

[SmilingLez]

To me, this sort of reminds me of the one bombing when it comes to the stories on the main site. Certain people, perhaps jealous of others, use the "This is AI slop, remove it immediately!!" war cry to get rid of their competition. It could also be a form of covert bullying as well.

 

[Tzara]

I'm rather puzzled about people complaining (I presume they're complaining) that they think some AI-written poems are being posted in the forum. Who cares? (Well, they apparently do, but...) I sort of understand it for people publishing stories on the main Lit site, as there has always been issues with authors being envious/jealous of whose stories are getting the red H indicating popularity, but here in the poetry forum? Geez, are they unhappy that someone got more little "love" or "like" emojis than they did? That seems silly, at least to me. Perhaps that's because I write poems because I find it an interesting thing to do, in and of itself. Having AI generate something that I then posted would be pointless.

This did get me a bit curious about AI written poems, though, so I tried generating one. Here are two sonnets, one generated by AI (Gemini) and one I wrote. Neither one is very good, but I've never been able to write a decent sonnet and am rather pleased that AI isn't much/any better. I'm curious if others can tell, without using a tool like Pangram, which is mine and which is AI (I randomized the order in which they appear).

Sonnet A

Two bodies move as one in quiet grace,
Where breathless whispers fall like evening rain.
A soft surrender in a warm embrace,
That turns the quiet night to sweet refrain.

The quiet pulse of heartbeats side by side,
A rhythm measured by the gentle touch,
Where all the world outside begins to hide,
And silence speaks when words would say too much.

In tangled shadows where the soft light gleams,
The spark of passion burns a steady flame,
A shared devotion woven out of dreams,
That leaves no need for any other name.

When motion rests and lingering spirits align,
Two gentle soul-bound rhythms intertwine.


Sonnet B

I think of you in bed with me tonight
And how our bodies join, from two make one.
A miracle that stuns this acolyte
Whose faith each night's renewed, again begun.

Devotions, rites, and sheer epiphanies
Can but convert the skeptical from doubt,
Immersing one in wonders that don't cease
And leave entranced the new transformed devout.

So let's retire to our marriage bed
And rediscover youth in gentle touch.
This was the reason why we two were wed,
To come together in our doubled clutch.

For you are whom I long for, whom I need.
So is it written, so is it so decreed.

 

[SmilingLez]

If you want a chuckle read this. Pangram has decided that Moby Dick is AI generated. To say that pangram is the best of the worst when it comes to detecting ai, is giving it too much credit

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/moby-dick-failed-ai-test-markus-brinsa-6kmrc

 

[Angeline]

I think you're right Lez that these accusations are mostly personal in nature: attempts to smear someone or indirectly bully them. That's another reason I tried to make it clear that baseless accusations won't fly here.

And Tzara I don't know why people care about this either. If someone wants to post an AI poem here and claim it as their own that's rather sad imo and contrary to what I think most of us want this space to be: somewhere like-minded people can write and learn together. But if anyone does try to pass off AI poetry as their own I certainly can't prove it and have no interest in trying.

 

[butters]

I wonder if AI's as touchy as some poets when it comes to getting their poems critiqued...

 

[Angeline]

I wonder if AI's as touchy as some poets when it comes to getting their poems critiqued...

I think both AI and the people reporting poems are pretty touchy!

I was just thinking about you yesterday and here you are.

 

[12oclocktales]

I'm rather puzzled about people complaining (I presume they're complaining) that they think some AI-written poems are being posted in the forum. Who cares? (Well, they apparently do, but...) I sort of understand it for people publishing stories on the main Lit site, as there has always been issues with authors being envious/jealous of whose stories are getting the red H indicating popularity, but here in the poetry forum? Geez, are they unhappy that someone got more little "love" or "like" emojis than they did? That seems silly, at least to me. Perhaps that's because I write poems because I find it an interesting thing to do, in and of itself. Having AI generate something that I then posted would be pointless.

This did get me a bit curious about AI written poems, though, so I tried generating one. Here are two sonnets, one generated by AI (Gemini) and one I wrote. Neither one is very good, but I've never been able to write a decent sonnet and am rather pleased that AI isn't much/any better. I'm curious if others can tell, without using a tool like Pangram, which is mine and which is AI (I randomized the order in which they appear).

Sonnet A

Two bodies move as one in quiet grace,
Where breathless whispers fall like evening rain.
A soft surrender in a warm embrace,
That turns the quiet night to sweet refrain.

The quiet pulse of heartbeats side by side,
A rhythm measured by the gentle touch,
Where all the world outside begins to hide,
And silence speaks when words would say too much.

In tangled shadows where the soft light gleams,
The spark of passion burns a steady flame,
A shared devotion woven out of dreams,
That leaves no need for any other name.

When motion rests and lingering spirits align,
Two gentle soul-bound rhythms intertwine.


Sonnet B

I think of you in bed with me tonight
And how our bodies join, from two make one.
A miracle that stuns this acolyte
Whose faith each night's renewed, again begun.

Devotions, rites, and sheer epiphanies
Can but convert the skeptical from doubt,
Immersing one in wonders that don't cease
And leave entranced the new transformed devout.

So let's retire to our marriage bed
And rediscover youth in gentle touch.
This was the reason why we two were wed,
To come together in our doubled clutch.

For you are whom I long for, whom I need.
So is it written, so is it so decreed.

Okay, I’ll stick my sorry neck out. Sonnet A is you, B Gemini. Why? I flipped a coin 3 times and A (heads) came up twice. (I thought of flipping the coin a few more times, but I dropped it and it rolled under the fridge; I have no more coins - they’re quite a rarity these days.) All seriousness aside (I think Steve Allen used to say that all the time), I just liked A better – the vocabulary seemed more sophisticated, the turns of phrases deeper (“one in a quiet grace” vs. “from two make one”; though “whispers fall like evening rain” in A is clever but cliché-ish, though I would have no qualms stealing it). I admired it more, admire your work, too, so yep, that’s the one. Yet B is more personal, human even, written by “I” conveying much more warmth, a real person with real emotions, and actually sounds a lot more like other poems of yours I’ve read (and I have no clue what Gemini writes like). So can I change my mind? I just read them both again and I’m afraid I might be stuck here all afternoon frozen in indecision unable to move. “Poetry is the devil’s wine” sayeth St Augustine; I could use a shot of bourbon right now myself.

 

[SmilingLez]

I'm rather puzzled about people complaining (I presume they're complaining) that they think some AI-written poems are being posted in the forum. Who cares? (Well, they apparently do, but...) I sort of understand it for people publishing stories on the main Lit site, as there has always been issues with authors being envious/jealous of whose stories are getting the red H indicating popularity, but here in the poetry forum? Geez, are they unhappy that someone got more little "love" or "like" emojis than they did? That seems silly, at least to me. Perhaps that's because I write poems because I find it an interesting thing to do, in and of itself. Having AI generate something that I then posted would be pointless.

This did get me a bit curious about AI written poems, though, so I tried generating one. Here are two sonnets, one generated by AI (Gemini) and one I wrote. Neither one is very good, but I've never been able to write a decent sonnet and am rather pleased that AI isn't much/any better. I'm curious if others can tell, without using a tool like Pangram, which is mine and which is AI (I randomized the order in which they appear).

Sonnet A

Two bodies move as one in quiet grace,
Where breathless whispers fall like evening rain.
A soft surrender in a warm embrace,
That turns the quiet night to sweet refrain.

The quiet pulse of heartbeats side by side,
A rhythm measured by the gentle touch,
Where all the world outside begins to hide,
And silence speaks when words would say too much.

In tangled shadows where the soft light gleams,
The spark of passion burns a steady flame,
A shared devotion woven out of dreams,
That leaves no need for any other name.

When motion rests and lingering spirits align,
Two gentle soul-bound rhythms intertwine.


Sonnet B

I think of you in bed with me tonight
And how our bodies join, from two make one.
A miracle that stuns this acolyte
Whose faith each night's renewed, again begun.

Devotions, rites, and sheer epiphanies
Can but convert the skeptical from doubt,
Immersing one in wonders that don't cease
And leave entranced the new transformed devout.

So let's retire to our marriage bed
And rediscover youth in gentle touch.
This was the reason why we two were wed,
To come together in our doubled clutch.

For you are whom I long for, whom I need.
So is it written, so is it so decreed.

I prefer the first sonnet, so I'm going to attribute that to you

 

[Angeline]

Dear Tzara,

Sonnet B sounds more like something you'd write to me. Just a guess.