Afraid of being seen as gay, are you?

[CharleyH]

After reading the all the Olympic stories, I have noticed that there are few references to gay males. I find this curious, since there are plenty of gay women in these stories.

I wondered why this is - if, in the fantasy of satire, humour etc. seemingly straight women can be gay, why the aversion to a gay male sex scene? Are people afraid of writing a scene in, afraid of offending tender male ego's? Why is it acceptable for lesbian scenes? Are we unconciously catering to the male reader?

I dunno, just a thought, and a conversation for a Saturday morning.

 

[Remec]

After reading the all the Olympic stories, I have noticed that there are few references to gay males. I find this curious, since there are plenty of gay women in these stories.

I wondered why this is - if, in the fantasy of satire, humour etc. seemingly straight women can be gay, why the aversion to a gay male sex scene? Are people afraid of writing a scene in, afraid of offending tender male ego's? Why is it acceptable for lesbian scenes? Are we unconciously catering to the male reader?

I dunno, just a thought, and a conversation for a Sautday morning.

Hmmm....interesting point to ponder...

It hadn't really crossed my mind, personally, 'cause I can't recall the last time I've ever encountered any of the male authors who've mentioned or implied that they or their personae might be gay or even bisexual.

Now, some of the women, it would seem, banter and joke and tease and flirt with the idea of doing each other (or women in general), while actually being straight. Hard to say exactly which ones that might be, however, so I have a tendency to just go with the flow...so to speak...and portray them all as being bisexual at the least, gay if it's been made really clear that their AH character isn't into guys.


(BTW, good morning.... )
<smile>

 

[Guest]

no no no.. im not afraid of being flamboyanty cheerful and light hearted.

i notice the same thing and yes... i did pander pander pander.. damnit!
however, i plan on posting a story soon.. humor ofcourse.. gunter the garbage man who is undergoing a sex change .. he falls in love with the bastard love child of Pavorotti... a closet castrati opera singer. i think this should 'rectify' my pandering...

 

[doormouse]

I'm gay, I'm gay, I'm gay, I'm gay, I'm gay

Hip hip hip hip hip hip hooray!!

Give me your pussy and my rubberised cock

I'm new to this, my inexperience don't mock!!

Now if you had balls, I'd really die

I'd be sucking instead of stroking... *sigh*

Okay, I'm not gay.

 

[doormouse]

BUT.... there have been TWO to count so far with bi-sexual males in them.

I read ALL the Olympic stories.... they''re the two that cum to mind.

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Afraid of being seen as gay, are you?

Hmmm....interesting point to ponder...

It hadn't really crossed my mind, personally, 'cause I can't recall the last time I've ever encountered any of the male authors who've mentioned or implied that they or their personae might be gay or even bisexual.
(BTW, good morning.... )
<smile>

Good Morning

Interesting. So I guess the gay or bisexual men don't flirt with the straight guys, though the gay or bi-women do flirt with straight women. I suppose it is accepted societally. I wonder if any straight women are offended by the flirtations? Hm.

Vella
i notice the same thing and yes... i did pander pander pander.. damnit!

So did I. I was so on the verge, but decided I might offend, and opted not. What a strange reaction. I guess that's why I am thinking about it, for it never occurs to me that women would be offended, only that men would be offended.

Doormouse
I'm gay, I'm gay, I'm gay . . . Okay, I'm not gay.

Not only are you a tease, but please, PLEASE don't become a poet!

 

[Liar]

It's the standard mainstream porn formula. Straight sex and lesbian sex is ok, and can be directed at the saem audience, since women are in general less homophobic than men. But man on man sex is considered alternative and aimed at a specialised audience of only gay men.

I guess we just follow that pattern out of habit.

#L

 

[McKenna]

After reading the all the Olympic stories, I have noticed that there are few references to gay males. I find this curious, since there are plenty of gay women in these stories.

I wondered why this is - if, in the fantasy of satire, humour etc. seemingly straight women can be gay, why the aversion to a gay male sex scene? Are people afraid of writing a scene in, afraid of offending tender male ego's? Why is it acceptable for lesbian scenes? Are we unconciously catering to the male reader?

I dunno, just a thought, and a conversation for a Saturday morning.

Good morning Charley-

I've also often wondered why straight men can watch lesbian porn and still be thought of as "normal," but straight women who watch gay porn are considered ... wierd.

I think you may be right, I think we maybe unconsciously catering to the straight male reader. I don't know why, other than this is how we've been conditioned.

I think a straight woman could read a lesbian story and appreciate it for its eroticism much better than a straight man could read gay erotica. In fact, I'm not sure a straight man would read gay erotica. It's like any association with it might imply that they, too, are homosexuals. Maybe this means women are more secure in their sexuality?

 

[CharleyH]

It's the standard mainstream porn formula. Straight sex and lesbian sex is ok, and can be directed at the saem audience, since women are in general less homophobic than men. But man on man sex is considered alternative and aimed at a specialised audience of only gay men.

I guess we just follow that pattern out of habit.

#L

Is it so alternative? Over here, in North America, there are not too many TV shows with lesbians, but there are always gay males in shows, or gay male based shows. It seems more 'acceptable' from a mainstream tv perspective.

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Afraid of being seen as gay, are you?

Good morning Charley-

I've also often wondered why straight men can watch lesbian porn and still be thought of as "normal," but straight women who watch gay porn are considered ... wierd.

I think you may be right, I think we maybe unconsciously catering to the straight male reader. I don't know why, other than this is how we've been conditioned.

I think a straight woman could read a lesbian story and appreciate it for its eroticism much better than a straight man could read gay erotica. In fact, I'm not sure a straight man would read gay erotica. It's like any association with it might imply that they, too, are homosexuals. Maybe this means women are more secure in their sexuality?

Good morning, McKenna,

Well, straight men, more than women not only participate in homoerotic watching of sports such as football (most obviously, come on, men bent over, taking the ball between the legs, patting eachothers asses ) but more men, straight men, participate in ventures such as circle jerks, so you would THINK that they would be very comfortable with their sexuality.

Nonetheless, you raise an interesting point. Yes - how often men look at you like you are insane when you say, 'I like gay porn', and yet their watching lesbian porn is not considered in any way odd. I wonder, perhaps this is because they do not want to see a woman desire sexually to have two men, or perhaps it's a short fall in being able to see themselves in a scenario with other men? I have no idea. It's worth mentioning it though - one never knows when a guy will want to answer

 

[McKenna]

Re: Re: Re: Afraid of being seen as gay, are you?

I wonder, perhaps this is because they do not want to see a woman desire sexually to have two men, or perhaps it's a short fall in being able to see themselves in a scenario with other men?

Maybe this goes back to pack mentality, primitive existence, where man was chief provider/protector and the woman was gatherer/baby-provider. One man sufficed for several women, but the opposite was not true.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Great thread Charley, It is quite noticible that men seem more homophobic.
I've read stories where guys (straight) are fine having a finger or a butt plug inserted into their anus, but another man's cock! No way baby I'm all man (desperatly refraining from a juan joke.)
Women, by nature, IMO are more tactile and sensual, we like to be touched and it doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman, if it feels good, there's a bonus.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This has come up before when we were talking about the amount of pseudo-lesbian flirting you see in the AH compared to the total lack of male-to-male flirting.

It’s a weird male ego thing. Women are just a lot more accepting of all kinds of sexuality than men are, which is why you never find straight women going around beating up lesbians either. The thing that most men find so uncomfortable about male homosexualy is really about the threat to their masculinity and status. Women don’t suffer from that, so a woman can tease and flirt with other women without feeling that somehow makes her less of a woman.

Back in my wilder youth I had a stab at being bi, but I could never come to terms with the status thing: just who’s the ‘male’ in this relationship? I consider myself pretty liberal, but it was a big enough issue that it made the actual sex seem a minor concern, and I never could resolve it.

---dr.M.

P.S. I know that it's great academic fun to find all sorts of covert homosexuality in sports, but believe me, that's not how men see it. Touching can be intimate but it can also be violent, and it really is the violence that men look for and see.

 

[Liar]

Is it so alternative? Over here, in North America, there are not too many TV shows with lesbians, but there are always gay males in shows, or gay male based shows. It seems more 'acceptable' from a mainstream tv perspective.

Oh sure, male/male affection is all over the media these days, but it is more often than not the "queerness" of gay males that is being displayed for entertainment value. The stereotype gay man is quite an entertaining character. Flamboyant, extrovert, slightly femimine. While lesbians are portrayed as either very regular, or just plain butchy. (except in porn where they are all bisexual vixens) But actual description of gay male sexuality? Not much of that going on. There are drama series portraying gay men from a romantic perspective, and as a political stance. But not even they dare to describe it all very often with the erotic pretext that male/female relations gan get.

Mainstream porn has traditionally been aimed at and consumed by straight men. So all the clichés of how that porn should be comes from that perspective. The average porn flick describes women. Either naked women having sexual things done to them by men, or just naked women in general. Men are always in the giving role, and women in the recieving. If we snuck in men in recieving roles into that mainsteam area, I think you'd see a decline in sales from what is still the main consumer group there, wether the gining was done my men or women.

Jenna Jameson in a strap-on ramming a guy would sell less than Jenna Jameson on her back getting rammed.

#L

 

[CharleyH]

It’s a weird male ego thing. Women are just a lot more accepting of all kinds of sexuality than men are, which is why you never find straight women going around beating up lesbians either. The thing that most men find so uncomfortable about male homosexualy is really about the threat to their masculinity and status. Women don’t suffer from that, so a woman can tease and flirt with other women without feeling that somehow makes her less of a woman.

And yet, I constantly hear about the circle jerks in the gym, news of the opera house, the park, and even my Father couldn't believe walking into a circle jerk at a downtown restaurant washroom. Men are also further exposed to eachother in public washrooms, since I have never seen a female one, 'stalless' nor have I heard of women watching eachother masturbate anonymously in public venues.

From as much as I hear, this would seem indicative that men are exposed to male/male scenario's (or body parts as the case may be) much more often than women are exposed to female/female one's. You'd think that increased exposure would make men more immune to phobic reactions, and much more accepting of sexuality in any form.

McKenna hits a point then - it must come down to women, generally speaking, being more comfortable in their own sexual skin.

I wonder how many men would go rent a gay film for their wife or partner because it turned her on? Or would that, in itself, be too much?

LiarJenna Jameson in a strap-on ramming a guy would sell less than Jenna Jameson on her back getting rammed.

So many men, not all, want to see other men get off when topping a woman, but not when being bottomed by one. I understand the hierarchy and the threat to masculinity.
And added (since straight porn rarely has a good looking guy: case in point Ron Jeremy)they want to see regular Joe's and not a well-built, good-looking guy do it.

Is this also part of a threat? Men must see guys who aren't all that because good looking one's might elicit feelings of inadequacy? Or worse, the thought that another man is attractive - even if it is straight porn?

Interesting.

 

[gauchecritic]

So many men, not all, want to see other men get off when topping a woman, but not when being bottomed by one. I understand the hierarchy and the threat to masculinity.
And added (since straight porn rarely has a good looking guy: case in point Ron Jeremy)they want to see regular Joe's and not a well-built, good-looking guy do it.

Is this also part of a threat? Men must see guys who aren't all that because good looking one's might elicit feelings of inadequacy? Or worse, the thought that another man is attractive - even if it is straight porn?

Interesting.

I haven't researched this at all, honest. But apparently it is extremely difficult to find male porn actors who are able/willing to fuck in front of camera for the length of time required.

I'm into home-made porn and the guys there are one off merchants (they don't know how to cut and paste video so do it all in a take)

I'm probably one of the odd ones out (I won't be posting to the testosterone thread either) but I've been known to include gay anal sex and straight (female to male) anal sex in at least one story, which I thought was probably the hottest I've written.

Gauche

(Across the Street)

 

[Guest]

Gauche (Across the Street)

Sigh. I wish.

couldn't resist, Perdita

(It's the first Gauchestory I read, one of my faves.)

 

[TheEarl]

I have to say this is one of the most interesting threads I've read on here in a while. It is odd that the men on here don't flirt with one another in quite the same way as the women, especially since I have been known to flirt outrageously with some of my male mates IRL. They're straight, I'm straight, but for some reason it's easy to mock-flirt. The only person who I've been able to do that with here is actually Pops 54. Wonder why it doesn't happen more here; probably because we're more detached from each other.

Here's a thought - following on from the pandering to male fantasies and 'normal' behaviour - it could be looked at that we are all personas rather than persons here. We each are a character, with a nickname to separate them from our real selves. Maybe that's why the girls feel it normal to act bi, even in jest, whereas we blokes feel like male/male flirting is forbidden. It's a tradition or an old charter or something and we're all staying in character.

I have written a story with a bi-male, although you'll have to work to find it here. It is the first story I ever wrote and is under another nom-de-plume.

The Earl

 

[Vincent E]

Re: Re: Re: Afraid of being seen as gay, are you?

So I guess the gay or bisexual men don't flirt with the straight guys,

Not if they know what's good for them.

 

[Guest]

My own personal gay male fantasy:

I'd love to see The Earl get Joe Wordsmith to totally relax (then maybe hand him over to Pops, or include the old perv). And of course I want to be there.

Perdita

 

[matriarch]

Re: My own personal gay male fantasy:

I'd love to see The Earl get Joe Wordsmith to totally relax (then maybe hand him over to Pops, or include the old perv). And of course I want to be there.

Perdita

Save me a seat next to you P....

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I don't think these men are man enough to show that side of themselves.

 

[McKenna]

Re: My own personal gay male fantasy:

I'd love to see The Earl get Joe Wordsmith to totally relax (then maybe hand him over to Pops, or include the old perv). And of course I want to be there.

Perdita

So call me insane, but my fantasy would be to see a circle jerk with all our male Literoticans.

*blush*

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

...I have no response to that. I can't even wrap my head around it.

 

[alyxen]

I think at least part of the reason for this disparity in references is the target audience. A much larger portion of the reading audience will be turned on by a woman on woman scene. Most straight men will enjoy a lesbian scene, but you don't really hear about women wanting to read about a gay male scene.

So outside of the writer's preference, the audience is going to dick-tate the contents of the story.