Advice Please

[Perfect_Trust]

I'm looking for some guidance on how to reconcile my feelings.

I have not had a full blown D/s relationship before, but would prefer it to be in a loving relationship.

I have had the experience quite recently of being offered both, by a guy who turned out to be nothing more than a liar. Very good at the IM/email/phone stuff, even quite dominant persona when we were out in public, yet a total let down when it came to the bedroom. Probably the most passive sex I ever had.

Now though I have found a guy who lives right around the corner (5 mins away) who has done this before & is currently doing all the right things (checklists, accomadating for my "newbie" status etc, giving me info to contact others to check with). However, he is not offering me the romance but states that if it happens fine, but we wont know until we meet. So I'm tempted to go ahead merely to satisfy my own desires with someone I am beginning to trust.

BUT, my dilemma is that I'm not really into casual sex just for the sake of it, & this is how I interpret meeting up for the purpose of D/s first, love second.

On the other hand I dont want to waste time getting down the line within a normal relationship only to find (again) that I am never going to get what I desire.

So, how have others faced this dilemma?

 

[chris9]

How have you handled this with vanilla partners? I'd say it's a question of personality. My own take is that it takes me a while to love someone. Even if I have a crush on them, the chemistry is right, I've got butterflies in my stomach whenever we meet, I wouldn't say I love them. I can get into a relationship with them, have sex with them. At the same time getting to know them better. And then there's either a "I love you" moment, or we break up again. This might be called a period of consideration. Considering if we want to become serious with the relationship.
I would have the same approach in a D/s relationship. There would have to be more trust before I have BDSM sex than with vanilla sex, because my safety is even more at stake. Still I would not expect that there is love present from the beginning, even before knowing the potential partner in person. On the other hand if he told me he loved me before knowing me personally and a longer time, I would not take him seriously, it's send up some red flags.

With someone living so close, I'd probably just meet him for a coffee. See if we get along. Meet him for dinner. See if we still get along. Go on dates. Talk to him on the phone, in person, write e-mails. I don't think I'd meet him with the intention of having sex the first date, not even vanilla sex. But if he lives only 5 minutes away, meeting for a half hour somewhere in a bar/café/wherever you want to go, in public, just to talk, won't hurt.

Now if you want a romantic relationship first, you can still meet him to see what happens. Either a romantic relationship will develope, or it won't. If it doesn't you don't have to sleep with him. If he only wants to meet you to have sex, without giving you the opportunity of getting to know him for real first, I'd say his loss.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

With someone living so close, I'd probably just meet him for a coffee. See if we get along. Meet him for dinner. See if we still get along. Go on dates. Talk to him on the phone, in person, write e-mails. I don't think I'd meet him with the intention of having sex the first date, not even vanilla sex. But if he lives only 5 minutes away, meeting for a half hour somewhere in a bar/café/wherever you want to go, in public, just to talk, won't hurt.

Now if you want a romantic relationship first, you can still meet him to see what happens. Either a romantic relationship will develope, or it won't. If it doesn't you don't have to sleep with him. If he only wants to meet you to have sex, without giving you the opportunity of getting to know him for real first, I'd say his loss.

He IS prepared to do this. Like you say it's not so difficult with having no distance between us. I suppose the fact that I'm even asking this question means I know deep down I dont want to just meet 1st time with the intention of sex.

 

[liberatedslave]

Personally I would exercise caution specifically because he lives so close to you. I'm assuming this guy already knows your address? If not, be wary of giving it too soon. If you do meet for a coffee or something and things progress there's a real chance to begin with that you'll decide this guy isn't for you.

Despite his credentials on paper, if he then decides not to take no for an answer he could become a serious pain in the ass if he's just down the street.

As Chris9 said, your safety is at stake here. You wouldn't go to the home of a vanilla guy you'd never met before and just because this one promises to spank you should be no exception. If he is experienced he should be aware that he needs to earn your trust. Contacts and so on are OK up to a point but that's no reason to go wandering into the lions den without a slingshot.

If all he wants is sex it's likely all you'll get is sex. If he's even considering the possibility of a serious relationship then he'll take the time to get to know you like anyone else would.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

Personally I would exercise caution specifically because he lives so close to you. I'm assuming this guy already knows your address? If not, be wary of giving it too soon. If you do meet for a coffee or something and things progress there's a real chance to begin with that you'll decide this guy isn't for you.

Despite his credentials on paper, if he then decides not to take no for an answer he could become a serious pain in the ass if he's just down the street.

No, I haven't given him MY address, though I do have his. At the moment he is only aware we live in the same town. We have both considered the fact that it could be a blessing OR a curse.

 

[liberatedslave]

As long as your taking that into consideration. Personally I think he's pretty presumptious to expect sex the first time you meet. Doesn't sound to me like a meaningful relationship is a priority with this guy. Could be he hasn't ruled it out purely so he can get what he wants from you.

Sorry, I appear to be having quite a cynical day

 

[catalina_francisco]

My thought is though you are asking about 'what if's' in terms of his being able to be romantic with you at some point, you haven't actually said you yourself have romantic feelings for him. It would be a mistake to force yourself to have feelings for him if he developed them for you, and/or becaused he could offer you the D/s you want. There has to be a meeting of the two to make a whole when you want both romance and D/s from the same person...and for me personally, this is the only way it can work successfully at this point in my life.

You are not obligated to have sex with someone you play with on a D/s basis, in fact many people have play partners they never have sex with. As a couple, we have included others in our D/s who neither of us have had sex with on any level....didn't mean we could not enjoy the experience. It may jsut be the romance could develop from that point, or maybe it is a matter of talking longer online or over coffee as friends and see how things feel after getting to know each other better, and getting to enjoy spending time together doing just the everyday mainstream things life presents us with.

Like you, I wanted the whole package. I also didn't want a succession of Dominants or Masters who played the part of romantic partner but then didn't work out because I felt I could not honestly give myself in submission over and over to those I became involved with, and feel it authentically after the first 2 or 3. For that reason I set myself the said to be impossible task of finding that right person. I did play with some Dominants along the way to explore what felt goo physically for me, what I was capable of, and gain some insight into the world I wanted to live in 24/7. Some play partners involved sex, others didn't. In the end F and I found each other online and against all odds it just felt so right. We have been married and physically together for almost 4 1/2 years now and have never regretted our decision for a moment. The message is it is possible, just remember you have the right to have it all if that is what you want.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

I'd say meet the guy for coffee. Set up a safe call even though it's only going to be conversation and coffee. See if there is any chemistry for YOU. Don't tell him your address. Don't fuck him. Don't play with him. Don't do anything you don't want to do if he is pushy. Don't get carried away. If, after meeting, YOU don't feel the chemistry, drop this guy and keep looking.

If after the meeting he doesn't see it going any place romantic (something YOU want,) but YOU do, drop it and keep looking.

If he is pushy or can't handle these terms, drop him.

OTOH if there is chemistry on both sides that could be the best thing ever, or it could fizzle out, either way you won't know until you meet.

That's my advice.

Fury

 

[liberatedslave]

The message is it is possible, just remember you have the right to have it all if that is what you want.

I agree, don't let this guy devalue you to purely a D/s level if what you really want is the whole romantic package. BDSM is a factor in many loving relationships but in loving relationships it is not the only factor. How much has this guy wanted to know about your personality and mainstream life and desires? If the greater part of your conversations with this man have been explicit that would also suggest to me that he's not as concerned about romance.

How much do you think this guy really knows about you? outside of your desire for a dominant partner?

 

[Perfect_Trust]

My thought is though you are asking about 'what if's' in terms of his being able to be romantic with you at some point, you haven't actually said you yourself have romantic feelings for him. It would be a mistake to force yourself to have feelings for him if he developed them for you, and/or becaused he could offer you the D/s you want. There has to be a meeting of the two to make a whole when you want both romance and D/s from the same person...and for me personally, this is the only way it can work successfully at this point in my life.

You are not obligated to have sex with someone you play with on a D/s basis, in fact many people have play partners they never have sex with. As a couple, we have included others in our D/s who neither of us have had sex with on any level....didn't mean we could not enjoy the experience. It may jsut be the romance could develop from that point, or maybe it is a matter of talking longer online or over coffee as friends and see how things feel after getting to know each other better, and getting to enjoy spending time together doing just the everyday mainstream things life presents us with.

Like you, I wanted the whole package. I also didn't want a succession of Dominants or Masters who played the part of romantic partner but then didn't work out because I felt I could not honestly give myself in submission over and over to those I became involved with, and feel it authentically after the first 2 or 3. For that reason I set myself the said to be impossible task of finding that right person. I did play with some Dominants along the way to explore what felt goo physically for me, what I was capable of, and gain some insight into the world I wanted to live in 24/7. Some play partners involved sex, others didn't. In the end F and I found each other online and against all odds it just felt so right. We have been married and physically together for almost 4 1/2 years now and have never regretted our decision for a moment. The message is it is possible, just remember you have the right to have it all if that is what you want.

Catalina

Thanks Catalina,

And YES, you are right in your observation that I haven't mentioned any romantic feelings towards him either, at this point I specifically DONT. What I am asking is how you reconcile the "just playing" part if you really want a full on relationship? Except that it could be advantageous in that he is willing to go slow & at least show me the ropes (literally!)

 

[liberatedslave]

Set up a safe call even though it's only going to be conversation and coffee.

Thankyou Fury, how could I forget to mention that?

Safecalls are very important. Make sure they're at random intervals and agree a time limit with your friend e.g. 'If i go a half hour without checking in, send in the cavalry' make sure the friend knows if you move from your meeting spot for any reason.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

I agree, don't let this guy devalue you to purely a D/s level if what you really want is the whole romantic package. BDSM is a factor in many loving relationships but in loving relationships it is not the only factor. How much has this guy wanted to know about your personality and mainstream life and desires? If the greater part of your conversations with this man have been explicit that would also suggest to me that he's not as concerned about romance.

How much do you think this guy really knows about you? outside of your desire for a dominant partner?

He wants to know a LOT about me, & is avoiding explicit conversation/email etc (except for discussing checklist) because he knows this is how it has been for me in the past.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

I'd say meet the guy for coffee. Set up a safe call even though it's only going to be conversation and coffee. See if there is any chemistry for YOU. Don't tell him your address. Don't fuck him. Don't play with him. Don't do anything you don't want to do if he is pushy. Don't get carried away. If, after meeting, YOU don't feel the chemistry, drop this guy and keep looking.

If after the meeting he doesn't see it going any place romantic (something YOU want,) but YOU do, drop it and keep looking.

If he is pushy or can't handle these terms, drop him.

OTOH if there is chemistry on both sides that could be the best thing ever, or it could fizzle out, either way you won't know until you meet.

That's my advice.

Fury

Very good advice Fury, & very probably the route I will be taking!

 

[exec1101]

This is a great question and an excellent thread. Meeting a new dom or submissive for the first time brings all of the excitement, anticipation and fear of "it" not working that a vanilla relationship brings, but with the added burden of determining if both parties want to go to the next level and "play". I can't imagine that in an initial meeting you will have all of your questions answered to your complete satisfaction. When I have met a potential submissive in the past, it was important for me to connect mentally initially. Understanding each other and respecting each other was essential to me wanting to move forward on my part. My partner felt the same way, so we were able to move forward, together. I would suggest you take the time to know this person first, move more slowly initially and run like hell if he does not understand your inexperience and is willing to give you the time and space you need.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

I would suggest you take the time to know this person first, move more slowly initially and run like hell if he does not understand your inexperience and is willing to give you the time and space you need.

Yes, I am doing this & will continue to do so for a while yet. He DOES understand my inexperience, & he does understand my wanting to meet publicly first. It's just that the few women he has met previously have:

a) Had more experience
b) Wanted to throw themselves at his feet immediately, first meeting, no questions asked.

 

[the captians wench]

Thanks Catalina,

And YES, you are right in your observation that I haven't mentioned any romantic feelings towards him either, at this point I specifically DONT. What I am asking is how you reconcile the "just playing" part if you really want a full on relationship? Except that it could be advantageous in that he is willing to go slow & at least show me the ropes (literally!)

Before I met Jounar, I had friends who would session me. There was no intercourse or oral sex durring these meetings. They would just beat the crap out of me and maybe give me a bite on the neck and the command to cum and that was about it. We had fun, we all enjoyed them, and I'd even cuddle with the other subbie afterwords. The thing is, it didn't really feel like a sexual environment.

Now I have another friend who provides sessions for me, but they get a bit more intimit. I was surprized at how comfortable I am around him, even from the begining. Jounar aproves, and this friend knows that our relationship is strictly friendship with a kick. *giggles*

But if I didn't have Jounar, I know I wouldn't be able to handle this. I would want more out of that relationship. So I guess I'm not really much help....sorry

 

[the captians wench]

Yes, I am doing this & will continue to do so for a while yet. He DOES understand my inexperience, & he does understand my wanting to meet publicly first. It's just that the few women he has met previously have:

a) Had more experience
b) Wanted to throw themselves at his feet immediately, first meeting, no questions asked.

Don't base your choices on what other people have done...you're not them. You have to ask yourself, if these girls were so great because they threw themselves at him immediately, then why aren't they still in the picture?

You have to be you. First and foremost. So what if he's been spoiled by early submission before? When you have to work for something, it's usually cherished a lot more than when it's just handed to you. Think about that.

 

[subwannabe]

I think you should go for romance and love first and then take it from there. Make sure he knows you are wanting a real relationship. If he is willing to give it a try then give it a try. If that is not going to work out then you don't want to be stuck in a sexual relationship like that and then what happens when Mr. Right does come along and this guy lives so close? Remember the odds of relationships not working out are quite high - especially when you haven't even met yet.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thanks Catalina,

And YES, you are right in your observation that I haven't mentioned any romantic feelings towards him either, at this point I specifically DONT. What I am asking is how you reconcile the "just playing" part if you really want a full on relationship? Except that it could be advantageous in that he is willing to go slow & at least show me the ropes (literally!)

For me it was simple. I knew what I required of a lifetime partner both in terms of D/s and romance. I also knew though I had entertained fantasies for my whole life, had been lead to refine them to areas which seemed to particularly connect to me, I didn't know if in reality I could handle some of the things I dreamed of. The ones I played with were aware I (or they) didn't seem to be the one I needed on a long term basis, but were happy to help me explore some of my limits and gain practicle experience while I continued to search. Some even were happy to give their opinion on particular men I talked to with the thought of meeting. For me it allowed me to gain confidence and define my needs, for them it gave them an opportunity to play with someone when they weren't in a relationship...and we could all keep looking for that one at the same time. I think what also made it possible was I didn't take collars from them, I didn't pretend this could be forever, and I was open about my looking elsewhere.

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

For me it was simple. I knew what I required of a lifetime partner both in terms of D/s and romance. I also knew though I had entertained fantasies for my whole life, had been lead to refine them to areas which seemed to particularly connect to me, I didn't know if in reality I could handle some of the things I dreamed of. The ones I played with were aware I (or they) didn't seem to be the one I needed on a long term basis, but were happy to help me explore some of my limits and gain practicle experience while I continued to search. Some even were happy to give their opinion on particular men I talked to with the thought of meeting. For me it allowed me to gain confidence and define my needs, for them it gave them an opportunity to play with someone when they weren't in a relationship...and we could all keep looking for that one at the same time. I think what also made it possible was I didn't take collars from them, I didn't pretend this could be forever, and I was open about my looking elsewhere.

Catalina

I think the last line there really gets to it. I think it is easier when every one knows exactly where things stand and no one pretends that it's anything more than what it is.

 

[chris9]

He IS prepared to do this. Like you say it's not so difficult with having no distance between us. I suppose the fact that I'm even asking this question means I know deep down I dont want to just meet 1st time with the intention of sex.

I always found that online communication helps me being more open and honest. Tell him you'd like to meet him for coffee, but won't play or sleep with him yet.
I have to say for me it's be easier to just have sex with someone I just met than to allow them to beat me up. For some reasons that's more intimate, personal for me.

 

[Perfect_Trust]

I always found that online communication helps me being more open and honest. Tell him you'd like to meet him for coffee, but won't play or sleep with him yet.
I have to say for me it's be easier to just have sex with someone I just met than to allow them to beat me up. For some reasons that's more intimate, personal for me.

Chris,

That's how I feel about it as well. It's not like I haven't had one night stands for sex, for purely selfish reasons. But, this is different, it's a deeper need for me (& seemingly most). I think the worry I have is that the other guy I met it DID just turn out to be sex...without any D/s element. To be honest it was agreed that there would be no D/s element anyway on that first meeting, but I did see him again a couple of times. By which time there was so many red flags I never would have been ABLE to submit to him anyway, if he is actually capable.

This is an excerpt from an email off the guy I am conversing with now:

The way it has to be with you is we meet for a coffee- or whatever, then
you go back home.
We see each other again, but still with no contact. But with an element
that you seek to be subservient, by the very fact that you have a second
meeting.
You see me as often as you need, to make sure that I am trust worthy,
decent, can hold a conversation, and you get a feel as to who I am, and if
you could trust me to eventually control some of your life.

So, he does realise how I feel about it I suppose.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Romance, Domination/submission, Sado-masochistic play... are all seperate things and can be approached as individual components of a relationship, or bound up in a "complete package".

You can have SM play with nary a bit of power being exchanged. It's quid pro quo negotiated pain/sensation giving. No more, no less. You can have D/s with not a hint of sex, kinky or otherwise. Do housework, yardwork, prepare meals, etc... You can have love and romance without power exchange or sex (kinky or otherwise).

It's your life, your relationship, your responsibility to know what you need, what you want, and what you expect to get out of the relationship. It's also your responsibility to communicate exactly what those wants and needs and expectations are to your partner as the relationship progresses.

Don't jump in to this blindly. Take your time. BUILD the relationship. Establish common ground, find things you and he enjoy outside of the D/s realm, outside of kinky sex. Take long walks, go to movies, listen to music, share books, swap jokes, discuss your values, philosophies, religious ideals... If you are not significantly compatible in the vanilla realm, it doesn't matter if he's spot on as a Top or Dom. The relationship won't last.

The ONLY fraggin way to find out is to meet the guy. Spend time with him. LOTS of time. Talk about everything. Watch how he treats wait staff and service workers. Watch how he treats friends and family. Watch how he treats YOU in the vanilla realm. If a romance develops, it develops. If it doesn't, make sure you learn from the experience so you have a better idea of what to look for next time. It's ALL good from a learning standpoint.

And good luck!

 

[catalina_francisco]

This is an excerpt from an email off the guy I am conversing with now:

The way it has to be with you is we meet for a coffee- or whatever, then
you go back home.
We see each other again, but still with no contact. But with an element
that you seek to be subservient, by the very fact that you have a second
meeting.
You see me as often as you need, to make sure that I am trust worthy,
decent, can hold a conversation, and you get a feel as to who I am, and if
you could trust me to eventually control some of your life.

So, he does realise how I feel about it I suppose.

It is very vague and can be interpreted in various ways depending where your head is at. The trust part in the last sentence is also uncertain in that does he expect you to come to that point from a few coffee type meetings or does he acknowledge it is something which builds over a long time and with cultivation from both sides? I think the only thing you can do is meet and see where it leads from there.....all your efforts to try and predict will likely be wasted energy until you at least begin to establish some sort of joint history from which to draw your conclusions.

Catalina

 

[chris9]

Chris,

That's how I feel about it as well. It's not like I haven't had one night stands for sex, for purely selfish reasons. But, this is different, it's a deeper need for me (& seemingly most). I think the worry I have is that the other guy I met it DID just turn out to be sex...without any D/s element. To be honest it was agreed that there would be no D/s element anyway on that first meeting, but I did see him again a couple of times. By which time there was so many red flags I never would have been ABLE to submit to him anyway, if he is actually capable.

This is an excerpt from an email off the guy I am conversing with now:

The way it has to be with you is we meet for a coffee- or whatever, then
you go back home.
We see each other again, but still with no contact. But with an element
that you seek to be subservient, by the very fact that you have a second
meeting.
You see me as often as you need, to make sure that I am trust worthy,
decent, can hold a conversation, and you get a feel as to who I am, and if
you could trust me to eventually control some of your life.

So, he does realise how I feel about it I suppose.

It does sound as if he realized how you feel about any development of relationship.
Now I'm wondering something else. It sounds as if he's applying to get into your pants. He'll do whatever he must do to get there (spend time with you so you can build trust), but he'll do it with sex or BDSM play in his head as an end goal. Now this could be wrong. You've only shared a part of a message relevant to the present discussion, and there's no need for you to share more. It's just the part you shared sounds more as if he just wants sex and rather no romantic feelings involved.
Again, if that's ok to you, you know what's going on and you trust your chance that he will develope romantic feelings for you, all's good. I just wanted to point out how this little snip reads to me, so you can think about it, take it into consideration.