Across the Pond from America

[DeYaKen]

Would US citizens accept their government being overruled by unelected commissioners who are appointed by a small clique?

The EU that the UK joined has been significantly changed since we joined.

The small clique, as you call them, are actually the governments of the member states. The thing is that each country appoints the same number of commissioners irrespective of population. The same goes for the council of ministers. That's why wooing Germany and France was counterproductive. All it did was harden the resolve of the representatives of the smaller countries that Britain looked upon as irrelevant.

Yes the EU is not the EEC that we joined but even at the time of the first referendum in 1975 the writing was on the wall. Why would a trade organisation need a democratically elected parliament? Anyone with half a brain should have realised that closer cooperation was the goal. In those days the parliament had no power at all but when we voted to stay in (by a 2/3 majority) we were promised that would change. It did change just not enough.

 

[oggbashan]

Ogg, the US is not too happy with the Elected clique that is destroying our Republic and some of our Congress are trying to redress the balance, but the Congress is going slowly because they are not used to actually Doing Anything constructive, unless they get a re-election boost from it.

Following the Money is the key to any political action. Good Luck.

The money is why the EU does not want the UK to leave. The UK pays a significant part of the EU's budget and the UK economy is in a better state than many so could be paying more in future - if we stay in.

 

[oggbashan]

Not according to Eurovision apparently, where I gather we were treated as pariahs. Pity we couldn't get one of the other countries to play the fall guy.

As major funders of Eurovision our entry has automatic admission to the final irrespective of its quality. If we had gone through the heats it would probably have been eliminated as not distinctive enough.

The question should be - Why are we still major funders of Eurovision when we can't produce any entries that are good enough even to be mediocre?

 

[DeYaKen]

For all those foreign people who don't understand Britains attitude to Europe, here is a clip that sums up the situation quite well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFG-h_SFagQ

 

[oggbashan]

For all those foreign people who don't understand Britains attitude to Europe, here is a clip that sums up the situation quite well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFG-h_SFagQ

Unfortunately, Yes Minister is an accurate assessment of UK politics written by people who knew the UK system from the inside...

 

[JackLuis]

For all those foreign people who don't understand Britains attitude to Europe, here is a clip that sums up the situation quite well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFG-h_SFagQ

Well We have the CIA who also operates in similar duplicity.

I read a major tome about the British system, from the Late 1870's thru the 1960's called "Tragedy and Hope," by a George town Political Science Professor of Bill CLinton's which showed the role of the Financial Class raping and pillaging, for the Greater Empire, and treasure. It was over 800 pages of research that tracked the actors and the moment of money by some that are not publicly known, faceless men who control the script of the world's story.

Some of them showed up in the book "Who Financed Hitler." It was a mere 300 or so pages, but some of the same names and organization showed up there.

It's the faceless ones we all have to worry about. The ones on the stage, are merely puppets.

 

[bodysong]

Boris Johnson to appear in court over Brexit misconduct claims

29 May 2019

Boris Johnson has been summoned to court to face accusations
of misconduct in public office over claims that he lied by saying
Britain gave £350m a week to the European Union.

Johnson lied and engaged in criminal conduct when he repeatedly
claimed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign that the UK
handed over the sum to Brussels, Westminster magistrates court
was told last week by lawyers for a 29-year-old campaigner who
has launched the prosecution bid.

A full trial, in front of a jury, would not be expected to take place
for another six months, by which time Johnson could be prime minister.



A central plank of the case put forward by Ball’s team was that Johnson,
as an MP and previous mayor of London, “lied and misled” the public
about the cost of EU membership and used the “platforms and opportunities
offered to him by virtue of his public office”.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-appear-court-eu-referendum-misconduct-claims

 

[DeYaKen]

Boris Johnson to appear in court over Brexit misconduct claims

29 May 2019

Boris Johnson has been summoned to court to face accusations
of misconduct in public office over claims that he lied by saying
Britain gave £350m a week to the European Union.

Johnson lied and engaged in criminal conduct when he repeatedly
claimed during the 2016 EU referendum campaign that the UK
handed over the sum to Brussels, Westminster magistrates court
was told last week by lawyers for a 29-year-old campaigner who
has launched the prosecution bid.

A full trial, in front of a jury, would not be expected to take place
for another six months, by which time Johnson could be prime minister.



A central plank of the case put forward by Ball’s team was that Johnson,
as an MP and previous mayor of London, “lied and misled” the public
about the cost of EU membership and used the “platforms and opportunities
offered to him by virtue of his public office”.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-appear-court-eu-referendum-misconduct-claims

I love Johnson's defence. It is not that he wasn't lying or that he didn't know he was lying. His defence is that he was campaigning. In other words, you should be able to lie as much as you like when it's part of a campaign. He has just launched his campaign to become party leader/prime minister. His own legal team has now effectively told us that we shouldn't believe a word he says because it's part of a campaign.

 

[oggbashan]

I love Johnson's defence. It is not that he wasn't lying or that he didn't know he was lying. His defence is that he was campaigning. In other words, you should be able to lie as much as you like when it's part of a campaign. He has just launched his campaign to become party leader/prime minister. His own legal team has now effectively told us that we shouldn't believe a word he says because it's part of a campaign.

Both the Conservatives and Labour parties promised as part of their election campaigns that they would honour the result of the Brexit referendum. If Boris is convicted, the two major parties should be convicted too.

In US terms, President Obama promised to close GITMO; President Trump promised to build the wall and Mexico would pay. Should both be convicted?

 

[JackLuis]

Both the Conservatives and Labour parties promised as part of their election campaigns that they would honour the result of the Brexit referendum. If Boris is convicted, the two major parties should be convicted too.

In US terms, President Obama promised to close GITMO; President Trump promised to build the wall and Mexico would pay. Should both be convicted?

Yes they should be tried at least in the Court of Public Opinion. I am quite sure that the press here or there have few scruples when it comes to click bait.

 

[DeYaKen]

I don't think this is the same. Boris kept telling people lies; he knew his numbers were wrong, yet he kept repeating them. The real numbers were known; they existed.

The examples that you are giving, is about the directions those politicians wanted to go; nothing was set in stone, and voters should know that, despite their intentions, things might get in the way and their aims might not be reached.

Being unable to reach your goals is not the same as knowingly providing false information to misguide the voters.

That is what the whole case hinges on. In his position, he had all the figures to hand and as a member of parliament, the public had a right to expect the truth. What they got were lies and his only defence seems to be that he was conducting a campaign. Now he's conducting another campaign can we believe anything he says?

 

[stickygirl]

Both the Conservatives and Labour parties promised as part of their election campaigns that they would honour the result of the Brexit referendum. If Boris is convicted, the two major parties should be convicted too.

In US terms, President Obama promised to close GITMO; President Trump promised to build the wall and Mexico would pay. Should both be convicted?

You're twisting facts Ogg and you know it. Boris stated that it was a fact that the UK paid 350 million a week/month - whatever. Fact, except no - actually a frigging lie.

The ones you cite are promises Can't believe you're trying that on

 

[stickygirl]

Since we're talking Boris bollocks, can we take a look at the article he wrote in favour of remaining in the EU, because he wasn't sure which way the game would go?
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-article-backing-britains-future-in-the-eu-a3370296.html

I won't be crying any tears when that disingenuous piece of political shit fails to gain leadership. He's every bit as vain as Trump but lies with a posh accent.

Lets not forget either that the Brexit campaign received advice from Robert Mercer, hedge-fund billionaire, to provide data analysis and advice on targeting Facebook users in the UK, which was not declared to the electoral commission. So, like no outside interference by a foreign power ... hang on, where have I heard that before? pfft fake news of course.

 

[oggbashan]

You're twisting facts Ogg and you know it. Boris stated that it was a fact that the UK paid 350 million a week/month - whatever. Fact, except no - actually a frigging lie.

The ones you cite are promises Can't believe you're trying that on

£350 million a week doesn’t include the rebate

It’s been claimed that we send £350 million a week to the EU. That misses out the rebate, and it doesn’t represent the total economic costs and benefits of EU membership to the UK.

£350 million is roughly what we would pay to the EU budget without the rebate. The UK actually paid closer to £250 million a week.

The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year".

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

One of the suggestions from Europe during the Brexit debate was that if the UK remained, the future of the UK's rebate was up for review as part of the budget process and could come to an end. The UK's rebate has been a matter of considerable irritation in the EU ever since it was negotiated by Mrs Thatcher.

Therefore we could be paying £350 million a week.

If the case actually proceeds in court, the claims by the pro and anti-Brexit campaigners would be relevant. Both sides were very economical with 'the truth'. If the bus had been inscribed £250 million a week, that would have been arguably true. The benefits the UK gets back from the EU are not controlled by the UK government and are controlled by the EU. The UK government might want to decide differing priorities for that money.

 

[stickygirl]

Like farm subsidies or regional development areas that successive UK govts have ignored? Sure, the govt pays more into the EU than it gets back in terms of funding, but somehow brexiteers think we can ditch the contributions and still have the same benefits, like tariff-free trade.

Promises and facts. Boris gets his day in court.

A 'source close to Johnson said “This prosecution is nothing less than a politically motivated attempt to reverse Brexit and crush the will of the people.” That sounds weirdly like Trump claiming Congress' investigations into his tax affairs are politically motivated. The 'close source' is deflecting the argument toward Brexit, which is untrue. It's a case of Johnson's integrity and it's vital that kind of information is open to the luvvies in the Conservative party who'll vote for their next leader. Quite frankly if he's made leader, and we have that idiot Corbyn on the other side, it sets the scene for anarchy: we'll probably end up with Farage for PM

I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread. It's true that one shouldn't discuss politics or religion or veganism with friends or you'll fall out. I get angry about stuff irl and it spills out here too much.

 

[bodysong]

All of the universes were witness to the idiocy of
America's Feckless Cunt #1 Goon, and entered a
momentary curdle phase as it absorbed the energy,
in order to dissipate it.

I reccomend having an airline-sickness bag at the ready.
Reading the article induces nausea, in sensitive persons.

June 1 2019

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...-send-nigel-farage-to-negotiate-38171162.html

 

[bodysong]

priceless

SwingPolls
@SwingPollsBETA
Replying to @MartinRowson
@michaelwhite @TheNewEuropean

Reminds me of a tweet I saw a little while back
describing the Brexit Party as
"The Shite King and his army of White Wankers".

12:23 AM - 30 May 2019

(A response to Martin Rowson's Snow Shite & The Eleven Dwarves )

 

[bodysong]

Not surprised to see this happening, on the other side of the pond.
In America, many fight to keep the harmful and damaging arseholes
preaching "Conversion" away from vulnerable and misled people.
Legitimate and State licensed therapists out these frauds to the authorities.
OTOH, Trump supporters promote "Conversion" as if it was not a
harmful process. The only thing real about it, is the money that goes
into election campaign coffers, of people that fight LGBT rights.

Politicians and celebrities have slammed Ann Widdecombe after
she suggested a cure for homosexuality could be possible.

In a Sky News interview on Sunday (June 2), the newly-elected Brexit
Party MEP was challenged over a 2012 column in which she claimed
“unhappy homosexuals” should be allowed to “investigate any
possibility of seeing if he can be helped to become heterosexual.”


Pressed over her comments, Widdecombe claimed:
“The fact that we now think that it’s quite impossible
for people to switch sexuality doesn’t mean that science
may yet produce an answer.”



James O'Brien Verified Account
@mrjamesob

Ann Widdecombe hasn’t returned to politics by accident.
She has been put there very deliberately by a man whose
entire career has been built on stoking hatred & exploiting
ignorance.

The only surprise is that people are still surprised by
how seductive Farage’s vile bigotry is.

8:55 AM - 2 Jun 2019

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/06/03/poisonous-ann-widdecombe-dragged-gay-cure-comments/


Stephen Fry Verified Account
@stephenfry

But will science ever find an answer to Anne Widdecombe?

(link)

6:47 AM - 2 Jun 2019

Ann Widdecombe says 'science may produce an answer' to being gay
Her comments have prompted a huge backlash

Bristol Live Bristol Live @BristolLive

 

[JackLuis]

So a Farage Anti-Faggot then?

Is she going to fuck them until they like it?

 

[JackLuis]

British politician: Trump ‘just killed off Brexit’ by declaring British health system is ‘on the table’

UK, you're welcome.

You can keep him if you like, please?

 

[bodysong]

Despite the common sense expression of courage and support,
there remain multiple communities reluctant to move forward
despite proclaiming to be bastions of progressivism.

At such a morally tenuous time in our country, such hesitation
and pause provides a vacuum that is easily filled by those who
embrace discrimination and hate. Conversion therapy and the
mindset behind them can only flourish against such a backdrop
of a silent, and therefore complicit community. Communities
never tested by such an unrelenting parade of hate and divisiveness.

Communities that continue to mean well, but have been reluctant
to actually step up and do well through passing clear legislation
against discrimination. While they hesitate, pause, and deliberate,
the pain of those impacted grows. In the words of Ella Wheeler Wilcox,
“To sin by silence, when we should protest, makes cowards out of men.”

http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com...tive-ban-conversion-therapy-across-milwaukee/

 

[bodysong]

James Dawson
@TheJayToday

After today's protest, I wrote about how commonplace punch-ups
in Westminster have become with pro-Brexit, pro-Trump supporters
occupying the ground around parliament

(link)

12:29 PM - 4 Jun 2019

As Trump visits Britain, once again the heart of our democracy has
become the centre of anger...

It was fitting that on the second day of the US president's visit
to the UK, the rallying cry from the few of his supporters
that had gathered at parliament.

JOE JOE @JOE_co_uk

British citizens shouting these words-
"We Love Trump! We Love Trump! We Love Trump!"



(I had the impression that Trump had activated his foot soldiers,
and that American tourists were masquerading as True Citizens
of England, to mock and troll the protesters that did not want
Trump in their country at all. I nearly fell out of my chair, when
I heard a commenter speaking on a trashy site, posing as a media
outlet, say- That the citizens of the UK that oppose Trump's presence
on their country's land, are a rabble, and riff-raff. He continued on,
to say that the UK was a vassal state of the United States of America.



article title-

As Trump visited Britain, once again the heart of our democracy
was the focal point for anger

Over the last year, parliament has become a focal point
of conflict. A small number of pro-Brexit supporters,
feeling increasingly betrayed by politicians in
Westmininster, have looked to act out the ending
of V For Vendetta in real life.

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/donald-trump-britain-parliament-anger-233951

Priya Gopal:

75,000 protesters were out in London alone, on the
middle of the day, on a working day, Tuesday.
It was a rainy day. And despite that, the BBC
and all the other outlets here have accepted that
there were several thousand protesters—and very,
very few Trump supporters.

So, what Trump has told his listeners in the United States
is exactly the opposite of what was the case.

And remember, there were also protests in other cities,
on a much smaller scale, but London alone had 75,000 protesters.

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/6/5/i_dont_see_any_protests_trump

About 170 people gathered at Guildhall Square for a demonstration
coinciding with the official commemoration of the 75th anniversary
D-Day on Southsea Common attended by the Queen, Prime Minister
Theresa May, as well as President Trump and other world leaders

Counter-protesters later arrived chanting "shame on you" and "scum",
and one appeared to give a Nazi salute.

Anti-trump protester Jane Warburton, from Portsmouth, said:
"It's abhorrent, have they not read what the whole day is about -
it's about celebrating the defeat of the Nazis, and they are doing
Nazi salutes, it just shows their level of intelligence."

BBC News

 

[DeYaKen]

James Dawson
@TheJayToday

ts_trump[/url]

About 170 people gathered at Guildhall Square for a demonstration
coinciding with the official commemoration of the 75th anniversary
D-Day on Southsea Common attended by the Queen, Prime Minister
Theresa May, as well as President Trump and other world leaders

Counter-protesters later arrived chanting "shame on you" and "scum",
and one appeared to give a Nazi salute.

Anti-trump protester Jane Warburton, from Portsmouth, said:
"It's abhorrent, have they not read what the whole day is about -
it's about celebrating the defeat of the Nazis, and they are doing
Nazi salutes, it just shows their level of intelligence."

BBC News

What they haven't told you is that Southsea Common, where all the commemorative events were held, is several miles away from Guildhall Square where the protest was focussed. The venue for the protest was deliberately chosen because it was well away from all the commemorations and organisers of the demonstration did not want to appear disrespectful to all the brave men who took part in the D-Day landings.

 

[bodysong]

Opinion

How the British royal family killed off republicanism

- Larry Elliott

13 Jun 2019

The democratic case against the monarchy is clear,
but even Labour knows it would be electoral suicide
to make it



From Harry Truman to Donald Trump, there have been 13
US presidents since the Queen came to the throne in 1952,
so she has plenty of practice in hosting a state visit for the
world’s most powerful man. Unsurprisingly, Trump loved
the British establishment making a fuss of him – from the
41-gun salute to the British lamb washed down with vintage
claret at the Buck House white-tie banquet. Both Downing
Street and the White House considered the trip a great success,
with talk – wildly premature – of a giant Anglo-American free
trade deal.

But the real winner from the visit was not a lame duck Theresa May
or Trump – who quickly moved on to other things – but the royal family.
There was widespread praise for the way in which the Queen handled
Trump, even using her speech at the banquet to big up the international
institutions he so frequently derides. The occasion also showcased one
of the UK’s few world-class industries: heritage. Tourists are money,
as someone once said.

But there was more to it than that. Trump’s appearance highlighted that
the monarchy has made itself virtually impregnable and that the republican
cause in Britain has rarely been weaker.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...british-royal-family-killed-off-republicanism

 

[bodysong]

Sad to see that the Conservative parties on both shores are hideous.