Abuse: is there such a thing in the 'lifestyle'?

[h_i_s]

...... (And yes, "snark" and "asshat" are Internet neologisms...but they did not originate at Lit.)

G'morning, Etoile.

You'd have to read the entire thread to follow all of this ... and that it hadn't been said that the word asshat started on Lit, to begin with.
i know Lit wasn't the first place i heard it (although there is a huge thread here someplace using the word asshat... a few threads which focus on the word in fact, ....one was started by me and the one i am thinking of specifically was started by X... on which i probably mention a site called fark.. where i first heard the word, though i have never claimed to know the origin of that word... no idea).

snarky is a word that originates from the British.

Regardless of how insignificant, the point of my annoyance here is that it's a good example of something being misquoted very early on in a thread, no one stepping up to 'call it as such'... and it taking on a snowball effect... and being transformed in another direction.

i hate that shit. Always have...

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Save the "can we move on crap" or just DO IT already.

You'd already stated that you were done arguing in post #219. It took eight more of your snitty posts and a Mod popping in and inquiring about the issue for you to feel some need to resort to this half ass offer of a claim to responsability/recant all rolled into one contradictive post. i dislike dishonesty and fake shit.
As it's doubtful that you'll find yourself willing or capable of changing these charatoristics, it's not likely that i'll find reason to appreciate you or your words.

i'm honest to a fault, like that, and always have been. It keeps things simple for me, and especially for those who interact with me. i may seem more than a bit forward and to the point, and raw in how i interact with others on this forum and on others. i don't play into the drama, i'm a straight shooter and i keep it real. i say what i mean and i mean what i say. i've yet to cause myself reason to eat my own words (via recant or deletion of posts) or take them back. i'm not going to start now.

If you don't like it or me, what i stand for, how i express myself, or my beliefs etc ect ...... don't direct your comments at me, and/or as i already had suggested to you earlier on in this thread, you have the option of the ignore feature.

wow i'm not quite sure what it is with me that you have your problem with. but i've re-read over this whole argument, and not once did i insult you in any of my posts, then i try to apologise, and i was sincere, it had NOTHING to do with a MOD coming into the situation. you don't play into the drama???? that's funny seeing as how you created the drama. maybe you should read back through it all. i made ONE comment, you then proceeded to tell me to 'get over it and shut my got damned hole' to which i replied and defended myself trying to explain that my comment was not meant to offend, which you then again responded with snide remarks, over and over and continued to put words in my mouth.

you do not know me, and i did in no way insult you in any of my posts, but i guess it doesn't matter because even in my apology you found fault, i guess that speaks for itself and i shouldn't even be bothering with this post, but i was shocked that even when i tried to take some of the responsibility and end it, you come back with such hate, and proceed to tell me that my apology was not sincere. wow......oh well i truly am sorry that you took such offense to one of my posts, but did it really warrant all of this? guess i've just never really met someone who had so much hate and anger in their words to someone they don't even know. sorry you don't want to put it behind us and get to know one another, but this will be my last post to you as it's obvious you're not interested in ending the drama. sheesh

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I stand corrected, thank you! I learned something today.
There's an excellent writeup about its modern usage here: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=383533

cool link i too learned some things about the word snarky..ah the power of the internet!!

 

[JMohegan]

i don't think there is anything wrong with Castlerealm callinectes, and i'm not sure why so many on here tend to the think it doesn't portray the BDSM in a good light. i think everyone knows that the BDSM lifestyle is not ALWAYS happy go lucky. i, personally, learned a great deal from the castlerealm website and have no shame in saying so. but i also learned alot from other sites, and from a very dear friend of Master and i's that's been in the lifestyle for many years, she is also who 'taught' Master a lot about being a Dominant, and yes, she is a submissive. people seem to think there is only one to look at this lifestyle, and that just isn't true, everyone is different. so what if one couple lives the 'castlerealm' lifestyle (though i'm not exactly sure what that means) maybe that's what works for them....

Castlerealm entered the discussion on *this* thread in post 122. The context is important, so please click that link to refresh your memory.

I mentioned Castlerealm to you specifically, Rose, because you have made multiple comments drawing a clear distinction between a Dominant and a "domineering asshat".

In explaining what "Domination" is and is not, Castlerealm asserts (at this link) that:

Domination is:

Safe, Sane, & Consensual
An exchange of power flowing from the bottom up
Mutually gratifying to both dominant and submissive
Liberating
Nurturing
Courteous
Founded upon trust and mutual respect

Domination is Not:

Abusive
Demeaning
Perverted
Exploitative
One-sided
Something you learn in a day, a week, or even a year
For Everyone
Domineering
Manipulative
An excuse to be rude

As Catalina has already noted, this is the presentation of an ideal. I have no problem with the ideal itself, or with those who strive to achieve it.

However, I do think it's worth pointing out that not all Dominants are striving to achieve this ideal, and not all submissives *want* their Dominants to be nurturing, non-domineering, etc.

Further, I think it is helpful to point out that the ideal itself is impossible to attain. For example, all Dominants (including yours) will at times behave in a domineering way, no matter how hard they try not to.

A Dominant is either a role (like husband) or a person with a certain desire/need (like heterosexual). Either way you look at it, a Dominant is not, and never could be, an ideal.

Why is this relevant to the topic at hand? Because you are asking if there is such a thing as abuse in the lifestyle, and the honest answer to that question is yes. Of course there is.

We are all operating on the same SM spectrum, and at any given point along the way there is a combination of physical and verbal behavior, the effect of which would constitute abuse for one individual or another. The lifestyle itself is not a shield that will protect you from being abused.

And as Netzach wrote earlier, the SM community is "far from free of the problems of the rest of the world."

We can not pretend that there is a clear distinction between a Dominant and a domineering asshat, because sometimes it just ain't so.

 

[Pure]

good points, j mohegan. a soft and romantic "BDSM" is some people's cup of tea; it's *their* ideal. it suits them: they have, if lucky, the cosy life they want and deserve. unfortunately Mr. Lord Colm attempts to intrinsically link this romantic approach to 'safe sane and consensual,' which i would argue is rather 'bare bones' and probably neutral as regards romance, nurturance, etc.

Mr. Lord Colm, in one of his essays, quotes as follows:

Colm summarizing Marmor, approvingly: Marmor and associates (1977) suggest a different model for contrasting normal, healthy relationship behavior with abnormal, pathological behavior. Instead of assuming that all sexual behaviors that deviate from the cultural norm are evidence of illness, they propose that normal sexual behavior is motivated primarily by feelings of affection and tenderness, seeks to give and receive pleasure, tends to be discriminating as to partner choice, and is motivated by recurring erotic sexual tensions in the context of physical attraction and affection. This is opposed to abnormal sexual behavior, which is used as a means of discharging anxiety, hostility, and guilt; tends primarily to seek to receive sexual pleasure; tends to be nondiscriminating as to partner choice; and is triggered by nonerotic sexual tensions that are often compulsive (Marmor et al., 1977).

the idealization here is pretty patent-- the NONnormal or pathological practices are used to discharge anxiety, hostility and guilt. well, Mr. Marmor-- and Mr. Lord Colm-- that's where most of the human race are, your theory notwithstanding. where some SM persons differ with you is that they/we acknowledge these negatives and don't try to paste little red candy hearts over them.

 

[JMohegan]

No insult to your intilligence intended....

I LOVE the power dynamics of the relationship. There are times in the dynamic of that relationship where I have to apply punishment and discipline. I do not like the act pf punishing, because it means that she has done something that displeased Me.

Did I ever claim to be in perfect control? No. I do My best to maintain that control,l but I am a human not a robot.

Sorry, Phoenix. I'm not buying this "reason" for cropping a woman's ass.

You do not "have to" apply punishment and discipline as part of your relationship dynamics. That is your choice.

If you choose to incorporate punishment and discipline into your relationship, you do not "have to" use physical violence as a means of carrying it out. That, too, is your choice.

No one ever "has to" crop a woman's ass. Not even you.

So why do you do it?

Acting as the authority figure and disciplinarian makes you feel smart and powerful and important. Isn't that right? This satisfies you at an emotional/mental level, but it also adds to your physical satisfaction too.

You may not pop wood when you're cropping her ass because she displeased you. But when you eventually do get hard, your strengthened ego and sense of powerful self-importance make you just that much harder. Isn't that right, too?

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong, Phoenix. Far from it. You get off on the power and control.... just like everyone else in the BDSM world.


As for your comment about control - fair enough. But I am still left scratching my head and wondering about your earlier statement that "the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control."

Perhaps it will be helpful to this discussion if I step back and ask: What is your working definition of the word "Dominant" in this context?

 

[FluteMaster]

Phew

That was a whole lot of reading to get to this point!

Just a thought, but maybe there is also a difference between

1) what one's overall aim is in a relationship which is to be positive and nurturing (and for arguments sake I am asuming that the D and the s are agreed on that), and

2) the desire that arises to explore some aspect of a relationship or engage in an activity that looks way too scary to most onlookers.

The ability to engage successfully in 2) will depend upon how far one has established confidence and trust in 1)

 

[Pure]

with respect, FM, i would not agree. nurturance is a large part of some people's SM and a small part of others'. a love for a good whipping need not be predicated on having received a mushy valentine!

 

[FluteMaster]

with respect, FM, i would not agree. nurturance is a large part of some people's SM and a small part of others'. a love for a good whipping need not be predicated on having received a mushy valentine!

LOL - ok, I checked what I wrote, and I didn't see anything mushy like a velentine there, but maybe nurturing is too pink and fluffy a term for you.

However, I was trying to highlight what happens sometimes, in that a relationship maybe overall "positive" in aim, but happily explore "negative" things. e.g. - emotional humiliation is something that usually needs very strong caring boundaries outside of the scene if the sub is to refind their centre again. The sub may get a kick out of the exploration, but unless they want to live in that world all the time, they need something positive to pull them back out.

does that clarify my point?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Castlerealm entered the discussion on *this* thread in post 122. The context is important, so please click that link to refresh your memory.

I mentioned Castlerealm to you specifically, Rose, because you have made multiple comments drawing a clear distinction between a Dominant and a "domineering asshat".

In explaining what "Domination" is and is not, Castlerealm asserts (at this link) that:

As Catalina has already noted, this is the presentation of an ideal. I have no problem with the ideal itself, or with those who strive to achieve it.

However, I do think it's worth pointing out that not all Dominants are striving to achieve this ideal, and not all submissives *want* their Dominants to be nurturing, non-domineering, etc.

Further, I think it is helpful to point out that the ideal itself is impossible to attain. For example, all Dominants (including yours) will at times behave in a domineering way, no matter how hard they try not to.

A Dominant is either a role (like husband) or a person with a certain desire/need (like heterosexual). Either way you look at it, a Dominant is not, and never could be, an ideal.

Why is this relevant to the topic at hand? Because you are asking if there is such a thing as abuse in the lifestyle, and the honest answer to that question is yes. Of course there is.

We are all operating on the same SM spectrum, and at any given point along the way there is a combination of physical and verbal behavior, the effect of which would constitute abuse for one individual or another. The lifestyle itself is not a shield that will protect you from being abused.

And as Netzach wrote earlier, the SM community is "far from free of the problems of the rest of the world."

We can not pretend that there is a clear distinction between a Dominant and a domineering asshat, because sometimes it just ain't so.

the key word here JM is SOMETIMES. i'm not saying nor have i ever said that a Dominant at times does not become 'domineering' but a Domineering person. like my ex husband, is hardly ever in control of themself where a Dominant is most of the time. that is the difference in my definition. and i am very aware that not everyone wants/needs a nurturing Dominant and i've never said that is the case.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Sorry, Phoenix. I'm not buying this "reason" for cropping a woman's ass.

You do not "have to" apply punishment and discipline as part of your relationship dynamics. That is your choice.

If you choose to incorporate punishment and discipline into your relationship, you do not "have to" use physical violence as a means of carrying it out. That, too, is your choice.

No one ever "has to" crop a woman's ass. Not even you.

So why do you do it?

Acting as the authority figure and disciplinarian makes you feel smart and powerful and important. Isn't that right? This satisfies you at an emotional/mental level, but it also adds to your physical satisfaction too.

You may not pop wood when you're cropping her ass because she displeased you. But when you eventually do get hard, your strengthened ego and sense of powerful self-importance make you just that much harder. Isn't that right, too?

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong, Phoenix. Far from it. You get off on the power and control.... just like everyone else in the BDSM world.


As for your comment about control - fair enough. But I am still left scratching my head and wondering about your earlier statement that "the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control."

Perhaps it will be helpful to this discussion if I step back and ask: What is your working definition of the word "Dominant" in this context?

ok JM...through all of this, your message to me has been that everyone in this lifestyle is different, yet here, in this post to Master, you are telling Him how He feels, why He punishes, etc. He explained to you His words in another post and You say 'i'm not buying it' the reason He NEEDS to crop my ass is because that is the dynamic of our relationship and it's something that sometimes needs to be done to put me back in place or however you want to put it. i'm not sure why You feel You know how Master feels at any given moment, as you continue to reiterate to me in everyone of your posts, that everyone lives this lifestyle differently, gets off on different things, etc so then wouldn't it stand to reason that Maybe the way Master says He feels when punishing me etc...could be true and not what You think it should be?

 

[Etoile]

G'morning, Etoile.

You'd have to read the entire thread to follow all of this ... and that it hadn't been said that the word asshat started on Lit, to begin with.
i know Lit wasn't the first place i heard it (although there is a huge thread here someplace using the word asshat... a few threads which focus on the word in fact, ....one was started by me and the one i am thinking of specifically was started by X... on which i probably mention a site called fark.. where i first heard the word, though i have never claimed to know the origin of that word... no idea).

snarky is a word that originates from the British.

Regardless of how insignificant, the point of my annoyance here is that it's a good example of something being misquoted very early on in a thread, no one stepping up to 'call it as such'... and it taking on a snowball effect... and being transformed in another direction.

i hate that shit. Always have...

Hi sweetie - I actually have been reading the entire thread all along since page 1. My first post is on page 2. Perhaps it wasn't a good idea for me to comment on the vocabulary part - it seems to have been a hotbutton for several people, and it apparently took away from what I wanted to say about Castlerealm and sites of that kind. I hope you'll forgive me if I make the point again; it's not the first time in this thread that what I felt was an important point was overlooked.

Castlerealm is a great source of information, as is Submissive Women Speak, etc. Even Gor can be educational (!) - the problem comes when someone relies on a single site or document as their sole source of information. Someone mentioned that we should remember we are all only ever giving our opinion, that's what we do on this board...but what I think makes this board more valuable than other sites is that readers get a variety of perspectives. If somebody only reads Gor, they're going to come away with a very singular vision of the kink community. If somebody only reads Castlerealm, they're going to have a limited understanding of alternatives. But if somebody comes to Literotica and talks to us, shares with us, learns from us...then I think they can be said to have "done the research" on whatever it is they're looking into.

I really don't care about all the personal stuff flying between posters here. If you guys are having fun with it, carry on; if not, stop. I love everybody, even the weird ones...I love sinn0cent and Catalina and rose and Never and Netzach and osg and even Pure! You are all my friends and I just ignore the fussing and fighting.

And now it's time for this little graphic of mine... http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

 

[Etoile]

ok JM...through all of this, your message to me has been that everyone in this lifestyle is different, yet here, in this post to Master, you are telling Him how He feels, why He punishes, etc. He explained to you His words in another post and You say 'i'm not buying it' the reason He NEEDS to crop my ass is because that is the dynamic of our relationship and it's something that sometimes needs to be done to put me back in place or however you want to put it. i'm not sure why You feel You know how Master feels at any given moment, as you continue to reiterate to me in everyone of your posts, that everyone lives this lifestyle differently, gets off on different things, etc so then wouldn't it stand to reason that Maybe the way Master says He feels when punishing me etc...could be true and not what You think it should be?

Can we turn this into a different example? How about a parent "needing" to spank their child? I was raised without spanking - in fact at one point I asked for one, because most of my friends got spanked and I didn't know what it was! I was quite horrified and my mother said "well now you know, that's why I don't spank you." But her methods of teaching me right from wrong were just as effective, even though they didn't involve physical punishment.

So does a dominant ever need to crop a sub's ass? Like JM says, the answer is no. The reason is that there are other methods of negative reinforcement. However, like parents who raise their children with spanking, some couples - even many - choose whipping as a form of punishment. It's up to them, it's valid for their dynamic, it's their right. But again...need? No. It's a choice. What is needed is not the cropping...it's the correction.

 

[graceanne]

Can we turn this into a different example? How about a parent "needing" to spank their child? I was raised without spanking - in fact at one point I asked for one, because most of my friends got spanked and I didn't know what it was! I was quite horrified and my mother said "well now you know, that's why I don't spank you." But her methods of teaching me right from wrong were just as effective, even though they didn't involve physical punishment.

So does a dominant ever need to crop a sub's ass? Like JM says, the answer is no. The reason is that there are other methods of negative reinforcement. However, like parents who raise their children with spanking, some couples - even many - choose whipping as a form of punishment. It's up to them, it's valid for their dynamic, it's their right. But again...need? No. It's a choice. What is needed is not the cropping...it's the correction.

That's . . . well cool. Very well put, and this is from someone who believes in spanking children.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Hi sweetie - I actually have been reading the entire thread all along since page 1. My first post is on page 2. Perhaps it wasn't a good idea for me to comment on the vocabulary part - it seems to have been a hotbutton for several people, and it apparently took away from what I wanted to say about Castlerealm and sites of that kind. I hope you'll forgive me if I make the point again; it's not the first time in this thread that what I felt was an important point was overlooked.

Castlerealm is a great source of information, as is Submissive Women Speak, etc. Even Gor can be educational (!) - the problem comes when someone relies on a single site or document as their sole source of information. Someone mentioned that we should remember we are all only ever giving our opinion, that's what we do on this board...but what I think makes this board more valuable than other sites is that readers get a variety of perspectives. If somebody only reads Gor, they're going to come away with a very singular vision of the kink community. If somebody only reads Castlerealm, they're going to have a limited understanding of alternatives. But if somebody comes to Literotica and talks to us, shares with us, learns from us...then I think they can be said to have "done the research" on whatever it is they're looking into.

I really don't care about all the personal stuff flying between posters here. If you guys are having fun with it, carry on; if not, stop. I love everybody, even the weird ones...I love sinn0cent and Catalina and rose and Never and Netzach and osg and even Pure! You are all my friends and I just ignore the fussing and fighting.

And now it's time for this little graphic of mine... http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

i love you too!! hehe..i'm loved..seriously though, it did make me smile to read that..thanks hon, i needed it it's been a bad week

Edited to add: wait, you said you love everyone, even the weird ones, and then you named me in there, are you saying i'm weird??? *grins*

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Can we turn this into a different example? How about a parent "needing" to spank their child? I was raised without spanking - in fact at one point I asked for one, because most of my friends got spanked and I didn't know what it was! I was quite horrified and my mother said "well now you know, that's why I don't spank you." But her methods of teaching me right from wrong were just as effective, even though they didn't involve physical punishment.

So does a dominant ever need to crop a sub's ass? Like JM says, the answer is no. The reason is that there are other methods of negative reinforcement. However, like parents who raise their children with spanking, some couples - even many - choose whipping as a form of punishment. It's up to them, it's valid for their dynamic, it's their right. But again...need? No. It's a choice. What is needed is not the cropping...it's the correction.

very well said Etoile, and i agree to a point. except that with children it's not a choice for THEM..for me it is a choice, and that type of punishment to correct a wrong is the type that is needed for ME, it corrects the wrong done quicker than any other type of 'punishment' He could give me, so we made this part of OUR dynamic, does it work for everyone? of course not, but it's what works in our relationship, and it is a 'must' if He wants to correct the issue quickly and effectively. hopefully i've made sense here and have not rambled on like an idiot sometimes saying what i mean doesn't come out that great

 

[Etoile]

i love you too!! hehe..i'm loved..seriously though, it did make me smile to read that..thanks hon, i needed it it's been a bad week

Edited to add: wait, you said you love everyone, even the weird ones, and then you named me in there, are you saying i'm weird??? *grins*

Well technically around here we're all weird... http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/upside-down.gif

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Well technically around here we're all weird... http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/upside-down.gif

LOL cute smilie, and yes, you are right, nothing wrong with weird

 

[graceanne]

Well technically around here we're all weird... http://www.amanita.net/images/smilies/upside-down.gif

Speak for yourself. I'm normal - it's the rest of the world that's weird.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Sorry, Phoenix. I'm not buying this "reason" for cropping a woman's ass.

You do not "have to" apply punishment and discipline as part of your relationship dynamics. That is your choice.

If you choose to incorporate punishment and discipline into your relationship, you do not "have to" use physical violence as a means of carrying it out. That, too, is your choice.

No one ever "has to" crop a woman's ass. Not even you.

So why do you do it?

Acting as the authority figure and disciplinarian makes you feel smart and powerful and important. Isn't that right? This satisfies you at an emotional/mental level, but it also adds to your physical satisfaction too.

You may not pop wood when you're cropping her ass because she displeased you. But when you eventually do get hard, your strengthened ego and sense of powerful self-importance make you just that much harder. Isn't that right, too?

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong, Phoenix. Far from it. You get off on the power and control.... just like everyone else in the BDSM world.


As for your comment about control - fair enough. But I am still left scratching my head and wondering about your earlier statement that "the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control."

Perhaps it will be helpful to this discussion if I step back and ask: What is your working definition of the word "Dominant" in this context?

I have stated My reason for wielding the crop on My submissive, but you said that you didn't buy it. So I don't understand why you are asking as you didn't seem to believe My reasoning for doing as I did. Since you have declined to believe My statement, I do not see a reason for furthering My part in that conversation.

As for the difference between Dominant and Domineering, here we go with another semantical arguement.

My working definition of Dominant is: One who Dominates another in a consensual power exchange relationship.

My working definition of a Domineering Asshammer: One who is a bully who pushes another around by virtue of threat or force with no consensual powere exchanged.

 

[JMohegan]

I have stated My reason for wielding the crop on My submissive, but you said that you didn't buy it. So I don't understand why you are asking as you didn't seem to believe My reasoning for doing as I did. Since you have declined to believe My statement, I do not see a reason for furthering My part in that conversation.

As for the difference between Dominant and Domineering, here we go with another semantical arguement.

My working definition of Dominant is: One who Dominates another in a consensual power exchange relationship.

My working definition of a Domineering Asshammer: One who is a bully who pushes another around by virtue of threat or force with no consensual powere exchanged.

This isn't an argument over semantics, Phoenix. I have simply been trying to make sense of your earlier statement that "the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control."

That statement still doesn't make sense to me, especially in light of Catalina's compelling remarks in post 22.

However, your working definitions presented in this post seem reasonable.

I have stated My reason for wielding the crop on My submissive, but you said that you didn't buy it. So I don't understand why you are asking as you didn't seem to believe My reasoning for doing as I did. Since you have declined to believe My statement, I do not see a reason for furthering My part in that conversation.

I asked because I wanted to give you an opportunity to be forthright in discussing this subject.

You're gonna do what you're gonna do, and I can't stop you.

But I *can* say to all the submissives and potential submissives reading this board: If some guy ever tells you he "has to" crop your ass as punishment for doing or saying the wrong thing, then he's feeding you a load of bull and you shouldn't buy it.

*IF* corporal punishment satisfies and fulfills *both* parties on some level, then of course it is a reasonable and legitimate part of the relationship.

But the "reason" given for corporal punishment is no more noble or valid than the "reason" given in a different relationship when a guy comes home from a bad day at work and takes it out on his partner's ass till she cries tears of genuine pain.

If it works for all parties involved, great. If it doesn't, then that's not what should be going on.

 

[Etoile]

MP, can I ask your reaction to this statement?

It's not the cropping, it's the correction.

That is: your cropping of rose's ass is itself a means to an end, a method of correction that you have chosen because it works for you and rose.

Does that sound right?

 

[lil_slave_rose]

This isn't an argument over semantics, Phoenix. I have simply been trying to make sense of your earlier statement that "the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control."

That statement still doesn't make sense to me, especially in light of Catalina's compelling remarks in post 22.

However, your working definitions presented in this post seem reasonable.

I asked because I wanted to give you an opportunity to be forthright in discussing this subject.

You're gonna do what you're gonna do, and I can't stop you.

But I *can* say to all the submissives and potential submissives reading this board: If some guy ever tells you he "has to" crop your ass as punishment for doing or saying the wrong thing, then he's feeding you a load of bull and you shouldn't buy it.

*IF* corporal punishment satisfies and fulfills *both* parties on some level, then of course it is a reasonable and legitimate part of the relationship.

But the "reason" given for corporal punishment is no more noble or valid than the "reason" given in a different relationship when a guy comes home from a bad day at work and takes it out on his partner's ass till she cries tears of genuine pain.

If it works for all parties involved, great. If it doesn't, then that's not what should be going on.

ok i am confused as to how you have gotten the idea that by His statement on Him having to crop MY ass, that He's saying it's right for every Dominant
to say the same. He was talking about IN OUR RELATIONSHIP it's what works! in OUR relationship corporal punishment IS a part of the dynamic..i'm not understanding what your problem is with this?

 

[MasterPhoenix]

MP, can I ask your reaction to this statement?

It's not the cropping, it's the correction.

That is: your cropping of rose's ass is itself a means to an end, a method of correction that you have chosen because it works for you and rose.

Does that sound right?

Exactly. Could not have said it better Myself.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

MP, can I ask your reaction to this statement?

It's not the cropping, it's the correction.

That is: your cropping of rose's ass is itself a means to an end, a method of correction that you have chosen because it works for you and rose.

Does that sound right?

not answering for Master, because i believe He's answering it right now Himself, but, Etoile, you have hit it exactly.