About the AH as being a family....

[sack]

One of the interesting things about last nights' festivities (read the Ten Most Beautiful men/women threads and the many offshoots) was Lucky's plea that although the people in the AH don't always get along, "We are always family."

Well, I actually come from a large family and learned early on that not everyone qualifies for each potential award/honor/achievement/list, etc. To give just one example, I was the least athletic, but the most musical. And it didn't bother me one bit if others in my family were recognized for their athletic ability...I didn't expect every "happening" or recognition to include me in some way, just as my siblings didn't expect to be similarly recognized for my musical achievements.

So, with that in mind, here's a family oriented "model post" to my threads last night. It's what I was hoping to see:

"Dear Sack, Thanks for taking the time and trouble to point out 10 beautiful women in your Lit. world that have enriched the AH. While I personally don't agree with your selections 100%, those authors do have awesome stories and I'm going to read some of the ones you mentioned I'm not familiar with. Since many of us have been in this forum longer than others, I wanted to also mention a few women that are "beautiful" to me. For example...."

That would have been a perfectly acceptable, mature response. Did I get anything like it? Well, Lady Jeanne and Imp came close, but were soon lost in the maze of people who started whining and complaining that they weren't included. Even more reprehensible, some individuals tried to make the people so recognized feel "bad" and embarrassed. I was labeled as "manipulative", "divisive", "impolite" etc. and the post was likened to High School or a Popularity Contest. "Misery loves company" does not equal family oriented behavior in my book. If the reactions to my threads last night were typical, then the AH is at best a dysfunctional family, if you can even call it that.

What people need to realize is that those threads were only my opinions, pure and simple. There were no "pontifications" or "pronouncements" from above. How small and petty of some AH regulars to try to take away my enjoyment and potentially others' through the creation of that thread. If you choose to recognize your own "heros" in a different way, fine, I wouldn't rain on your parade. Yes, I tried to introduce humor in the American Bandstand countdown style. If that isn't funny to you, feel free to recognize whoever you want in whatever style you want....it's a free country. Choosing to be hurt rather than to ignore or just consider the source is a mystery to me. Black Shanglan tried to go that route, but was ignored in the welter of strong emotions that were entirely inappropriate to those lighthearted threads.

If you want to be thought of as a contributing AH "family" member, give credit where credit is due, leave your petty insecurities out of discussions where they have no relevance, and frankly "grow up!" We're not in High School anymore and if you haven't gotten over your rejection or past problems in that setting, get professional help. Stop trying to drag the whole AH down because someone else did something not meeting your full approval. A family is at best the sum of its members, and begins to function fully when each person starts acting more responsible.

a very disappointed Sack

 

[Guest]

A BIG FAT

Yes, I am very grateful, you made me feel good. But then, I did read through a lot more of what went on last night, and I did feel embarrassed and "bad". Not your fault, though. Not anyone's fault, it's just human nature, I guess.

We are all authors, and have egos to match.

Seriously, thanks for the wonderful things you said about me.

Lou

 

[Evil Alpaca]

A BIG FAT

Yes, I am very grateful, you made me feel good. But then, I did read through a lot more of what went on last night, and I did feel embarrassed and "bad". Not your fault, though. Not anyone's fault, it's just human nature, I guess.

We are all authors, and have egos to match.

Seriously, thanks for the wonderful things you said about me.

Lou

I don't have an ego! Take that back!
*sulk*

 

[Guest]

sometimes, sack, even if its lighthearted banter, things just don't go over the way you imagine them to. this happens in families too.
squabbles abound. i understood the gist of what you were doing, i just felt that maybe it didn't feel kosher. thats just my opinion. i still think youre an awesome person, still part of the fam.
this is what i thought at that point in time:

you know how you think youre a part of a pretty cool community and then one statement can make you feel like a red headed step child? wow! how petty. there it is though...all feelings are valid... top of list, bottom of list or not listed at all...
i agree with lou
i agree with you

i think its time for a group hug.

 

[impressive]

i think its time for a group hug.

Can I be in the middle?

 

[Guest]

Can I be in the middle?

LOL
you can be where ever your beautiful heart desires.

 

[English Lady]

As vella says family squabbles happen. You know why? Because family really, truly love each other. There are great and deep emotions felt by family members for thier brothers and sisters etc. I know. I am a big sister and I will defend my little sister to the last if I even percieve some kind of slight or snide remark.

There are alot of big brothers and sisters here who jumped to the aid of their "picked on" siblings. Even though that wasn't really what was happening,the emotions jumped in first. It happens.

Lets just let the whole thing die down. It's one of those things to put on your "things not to do on the AH 'cos it doesn't work" list and leave it be.

I'm in for a group hug

 

[Remec]

I'm in for a group hug

Not having read through the threads in question (mostly 'cause of not being online much yesterday since it was a holiday and of working last night)...I'd just like to say that I'm all for the hug thing....definitely...<nod> at least...<g>

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't see the AH as a family and I don't want any damned hugs. A family is a closed unit where you're stuck with your relatives whether you like them or not and other people are excluded by definition. That's not how I see this place.

To me it's more like a cocktail party or maybe a high school dance: a bunch of people, some who know each other, some who are strangers, mingling and exchanging ideas and opinions and jokes and whatever. And in a cocktail party you don't go and hang with the people you already know and exclude everyone else. You mingle. You talk to strangers and make them feel welcome. You spread yourself around because you never know what undiscovered charms that lonely person in the corner might have to reveal.

At a dance you don't leave people sitting on the folding chairs while you get in line to dance with the most popular people.

Anyhow, that's how I see this place. A cocktail party or a dance depends on everyone's willingness to forgo their usual circle of friends and mingle, otherwise all you've got are the same old groups of people standing around and ignoring each other, while the shy and the neglected quietly get their coats and leave in tears.

---dr.M.

 

[English Lady]

*hugs Remec*


Dr M -you're free to think of this place as you like
Years of being a Christian makesme think differently about the word family. I don't see it as just flesh and blood relatives who you can't choose but a body of like minded people who have a few things in common and otherwise are totally diverse. It's the one thing bringing together a diverse set of people that I think about when I think of the AH as a family


*gives Dr M a instead of a hug just'cos*

 

[Remec]

Anyhow, that's how I see this place. A cocktail party or a dance depends on everyone's willingness to forgo their usual circle of friends and mingle, otherwise all you've got are the same old groups of people standing around and ignoring each other, while the shy and the neglected quietly get their coats and leave in tears.

A very nicely summed up way of looking at things. And, as someone who has picked up their coat on more than a few occasions in the past, I think I should prolly do more to bolster that sort of attitude whenever possible.

 

[impressive]

To me it's more like a cocktail party or maybe a high school dance:

Top Ten AHers I Wanna Dance With:

10.

Sorry. *slapping self* I'll learn to fight the urge someday.



To me, Zoot's analogies are lacking one thing I find in the AH -- and that IS the warm fuzziness commonly associated with a "family" (of sorts). Regardless of how things are PERCEIVED, I really don't think anyone INTENDS to do harm.

 

[minsue]

It's certainly like a lot of families on one way - the one thing everyone can come together to do is to knock someone else down.

Sack's were just the latest in an inordinate number of threads that have been on here lately singling people out - the AH Awards thread, the sandwich thread, the dessert thread, etc. People were hurt by all of those so maybe that's why it all came to a head with Sack's threads.

What is disturbing to me is the message sent by the group as a whole: It's insensitive and cruel to single people out for praise, but it's wholesome family fun for everyone to attack one person, be it Sack, Joe, Amicus or anyone else.

 

[English Lady]

Minsue -I can completely see what you mean

I think the thing with naming names is there is always a chance of hurting someone, no matter whatyou're saying about them.

Thing is that when you have a group of mates like you have here you find people wanting to say "such and such is great because" to show how much they like that person. They don't mean to exclude others it's just their way of marking such person as something special.

Folks like Joe who constantly put their views out there even if they're not agreed with and so look argumentitive. I know it isn't the case but people think it's ok to start threads about them because they"obviously" they have a thick skinand can handle it.

Words online can also be misinterpreted in a way spoken words aren't because you're not seeing the person face to face.

I think maybe this just goes to prove we might have to think a bit before posting stuff.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

What is disturbing to me is the message sent by the group as a whole: It's insensitive and cruel to single people out for praise, but it's wholesome family fun for everyone to attack one person, be it Sack, Joe, Amicus or anyone else.

We generally learn to praise pr criticize people for what they do, and not for what they are. Your looks, your wit and intelligence, those are things you can't do anything about, and so we--or maybe I should just say 'I'--try to avoid judging people on things like appearance or native wit.

There's nothing wrong with listing stories you enjoyed. Those are your opinions based on things people have done. But you should realize that the people whose stories you didn't list are probably going to be a bit hurt to be excluded, but that's okay. They know they can write a better story next time. They can't do anything about their looks though.

A couple of weeks ago I also came out and criticized Sweetnpetite's "Lit Sandwich" thread, and for the same reason. She asked people which Litsters they would most like to have a threesome with. It was all in good fun, but at the same time I'm sure that there were some hurt feelings among the people who weren't mentioned. No one likes to be neglected, and no one likes to be made to feel less attractive or less capable than anyone else.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should all publish our list of the ten sexiest and smartest people, or maybe we should publish lists of the ten least attractive and dumbest. I just don't think it's very considerate. To me it's just basic courtesy.

---dr.M.

 

[shereads]

If you want to be thought of as a contributing AH "family" member, give credit where credit is due, leave your petty insecurities out of discussions where they have no relevance, and frankly "grow up!"

This is satirical, right? When I brought up my breakfast and ruined my shoes just now, I hadn't realized you were joking.

 

[shereads]

At a dance you don't leave people sitting on the folding chairs while you get in line to dance with the most popular people.

If you do, it's no big deal. But if you tap your fork on your glass to get their attention and then announce that you've assigned each of them a rank in order of the value they bring to the party in your opinion, you're being an arrogant prick and shouldn't be startled when there are ruffled feathers.

On the other hand, if you assume that anyone who objects is doing so, not for the reasons stated, but because they "don't feel attractive" anymore thanks to you, you've made me laugh, and that's always welcome.

Jeezus.

 

[Guest]

FAMILY

 

[shereads]

A couple of weeks ago I also came out and criticized Sweetnpetite's "Lit Sandwich" thread, and for the same reason. She asked people which Litsters they would most like to have a threesome with. It was all in good fun, but at the same time I'm sure that there were some hurt feelings among the people who weren't mentioned. No one likes to be neglected, and no one likes to be made to feel less attractive or less capable than anyone else.

There are also people who would rather not be mentioned than be placed in a fictitious three-way tangle for which they didn't volunteer. I don't think I'm alone in saying that I know it's meant in fun but it's embarrassing. I read those threads sometimes because I'm curious when they become popular, and I sometimes find it fun to see others enjoy themselves. Sitting in a chair and watching the dance isn't a terrible place to be unless you want to dance.

Let me take this opportunity to speak for those of us who are perfectly okay with not being on these lists. We are shy, some of us, in a particular way:

> We prefer to choose when and to what extent we are included in group activities. (Not because we are snobs, but because we're the opposite of snobs. We blush easily over things that others take in stride.)

> We find out which people we enjoy teasing and which ones we enjoy engaging in serious discussion, and which people are offended by our attempts at humor and which ones return it in kind, the same way in the Authors Hangout as in real life: by observing, then interacting in a limited way with people we don't know. When we know a few people fairly well, we may be comfortable flirting and exchanging playful insults, with the unspoken understanding that it's just for fun.

> We'd rather not be on ranked list. We wouldn't comment at all if we didn't know that others, less willing to speak out, feel hurt when they aren't included. We may not give a rat's udder what a stranger thinks of us, but we're aware of the hurt feelings around us. If we overreact it's because we hated that kind of crap when it was inflicted on children in gym class, and we never thought to see it in the world of adults.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I consider Zoot to be the funny uncle that wants you to either sit on his lap or pull his finger.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I consider Zoot to be the funny uncle that wants you to either sit on his lap or pull his finger.

Or both at the same time. I call it "multitasking".

---Z

 

[shereads]

I consider Zoot to be the funny uncle that wants you to either sit on his lap or pull his finger.

The finger spit at me.

 

[cloudy]

The finger spit at me.

You too?

 

[shereads]

Re: FAMILY

*heavy assisted breathing*

Rhino, that nitrous oxide is nothing to play around with. Plus, how will we make the whipped cream dispenser work if you use up all the cartridges? I made strawberry shortcake.

 

[Guest]