About that Muslim Brotherhood...

[Wok]

That's the exact attitude that lead to the overthrow of the Shah and the establishment of the Mullahs. It's the same argument that would have left Saddam in power AND destroys the legitimacy of what Obama is now doing in Afghanistan; Karzai wanted to broker a deal early on with the Taliban and bring them into the government but Obama was having none of that.

And it IS our business since we are divesting ourselves of the ability to get to our own energy, once they are in control of the canal, then our economies crash again and the settlement of the Jewish issue is on and once again, the guilt of a genocide will be on us, because they sure as hell won't feel guilty over it, it's their Stairway to Heaven.

AJ, the military is not going in there to make everything better. Yeah, you may want that, and it may be the best way to go, but in the end Egyptians are still going to make their decision without the United States. Muslim Brotherhood or no Muslim Brotherhood.

Unless I am missing something.

 

[Saint Peter]

The choice has been made.

Right now it is just a matter of how much blood will be spilled to enact it.

 

[Wok]

The choice has been made.

Right now it is just a matter of how much blood will be spilled to enact it.

I heard something about the President stepping down but holding his title or some shit like that. I did not hear who or what is going to replace him. Oh, and if he is gone, is his cabinet gone too?

 

[Saint Peter]

I hard something about the President stepping down but holding his title or some shit like that. I did not hear who or what is going to replace him. Oh, and if he is gone, is his cabinet gone too?

A tangled web. They guy in the street wants change, but that same guy wants water and food. That guy wants money in the banks.

I do not think the masses always make the best choice for themselves. In this case I do think they are going to get what they ask for.

 

[Lancecastor]

Yes, my "attitude" is as you've said below.

If the USA wants to have access to their energy products, then the USA will form a proper diplomatic and economic alliance with their governments elected by their people.

As for Israel, they can look after themselves quite nicely. They are hardly pussies in the world arena. If you think the USA owes Israel ongoing guilt and shame reparations for the Holocaust, I would disagree. That bill's been paid. They're all grown up.

Your post suggests that you think the USA should be as dictatorial as the Shah or Mubarek or Duvalier....which is what makes you dead wrong on all counts, because you are vilifying the very people you emulate.

All of which automatically gets you a Fail grade here on the GB.

That's the exact attitude that lead to the overthrow of the Shah and the establishment of the Mullahs. It's the same argument that would have left Saddam in power AND destroys the legitimacy of what Obama is now doing in Afghanistan; Karzai wanted to broker a deal early on with the Taliban and bring them into the government but Obama was having none of that.

And it IS our business since we are divesting ourselves of the ability to get to our own energy, once they are in control of the canal, then our economies crash again and the settlement of the Jewish issue is on and once again, the guilt of a genocide will be on us, because they sure as hell won't feel guilty over it, it's their Stairway to Heaven.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

AJ, the military is not going in there to make everything better. Yeah, you may want that, and it may be the best way to go, but in the end Egyptians are still going to make their decision without the United States. Muslim Brotherhood or no Muslim Brotherhood.

Unless I am missing something.

What? did I say I wanted the military to invade in some post? All I've said is that the eagerness of Obama to overthrow Mubarek will lead to the emergence of the most radical elements in the Egyptian polity assuming control because there is no real "Democracy" movement. Food and opportunity are driving the protests and the Brotherhood was not involved in the inception, but the seek and will most likely seize control if we allow a vacuum to occur with the sudden departure of Mubarak or hasty elections as when we handed "Palestine" over to Hamas.

As far as using the military to protect the canal, we can possibly look to history:

Nasser eventually nationalized the Suez Canal on July 27, 1956. This illegal act threatened the oil supplies to Britain and France from the Middle East. The economic stranglehold on Israel became intolerable, and Arab terrorism against the Jewish state led to many Israeli civilian deaths. (Incidentally, Arab terrorism began long before the so-called Israeli "occupation," which Arab and pro-Arab propagandists now use as the excuse for present Arab aggression against Israel.)

In October 1956, war by Britain, France, and Israel against Egypt broke out. Israeli forces, in what became known as the One Hundred Hours War, defeated the Egyptians in Sinai and Gaza and broke the naval blockade. Britain and France invaded the Canal Zone to end Nasser's blockade of the Suez Canal.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/obama_well_knows_what_chaos_he.html

 

[overthebow]

What? did I say I wanted the military to invade in some post? All I've said is that the eagerness of Obama to overthrow Mubarek will lead to the emergence of the most radical elements in the Egyptian polity assuming control because there is no real "Democracy" movement. Food and opportunity are driving the protests and the Brotherhood was not involved in the inception, but the seek and will most likely seize control if we allow a vacuum to occur with the sudden departure of Mubarak or hasty elections as when we handed "Palestine" over to Hamas.

As far as using the military to protect the canal, we can possibly look to history:


http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/obama_well_knows_what_chaos_he.html

And then Eisenhower pulled the Brits and French up short.

 

[Wok]

What? did I say I wanted the military to invade in some post? All I've said is that the eagerness of Obama to overthrow Mubarek will lead to the emergence of the most radical elements in the Egyptian polity assuming control because there is no real "Democracy" movement. Food and opportunity are driving the protests and the Brotherhood was not involved in the inception, but the seek and will most likely seize control if we allow a vacuum to occur with the sudden departure of Mubarak or hasty elections as when we handed "Palestine" over to Hamas.

As far as using the military to protect the canal, we can possibly look to history:


http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/obama_well_knows_what_chaos_he.html

It is still not going to happen no matter how much you wish for it.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Yes, my "attitude" is as you've said below.

If the USA wants to have access to their energy products, then the USA will form a proper diplomatic and economic alliance with their governments elected by their people.

As for Israel, they can look after themselves quite nicely. They are hardly pussies in the world arena. If you think the USA owes Israel ongoing guilt and shame reparations for the Holocaust, I would disagree. That bill's been paid. They're all grown up.

Your post suggests that you think the USA should be as dictatorial as the Shah or Mubarek or Duvalier....which is what makes you dead wrong on all counts, because you are vilifying the very people you emulate.

All of which automatically gets you a Fail grade here on the GB.

We are forming proper relations with the Mullahs and CHina as they crush their internal dissent and proving, as you suggest, that we are no longer the vangard or protector of freedom and if we can;t get the Brotherhood to sell us oil, then fuck us.

Again, what did I say the US should do? All I said was don't be too eager to throw Mubarek under the bus, and yet, here we are flush with the liberal excitement of "I told you so!" as we watch Egypt "magically" transform itself into a Democracy, which is what we kept screaming at GW, if Saddam's people don't like being herded into mass graves, then they will overthrow him and Mookie and the Mullahs can rule Iraq...

The odds of Egypt becoming a Democracy are slim to none, the only question is, what KIND of socialist state will it be? National Democratic? A return to the "roots" of the Brotherhood?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

It is still not going to happen no matter how much you wish for it.

I'm sorry. What is it I'm "wishing" for?

Can you speak without all the partisan projection?

 

[Wok]

I'm sorry. What is it I'm "wishing" for?

Can you speak without all the partisan projection?

Oh, I am sorry. I forgot it is only OK when you do it.

The "wish" means control. A regime that is not friendly to the US means a loss of that control and instability around the world. The wish is to make sure that does not happen. I can understand. It is not going to happen in this case, more than likely. If it does, then I will say I am wrong.

 

[Saint Peter]

I'm sorry. What is it I'm "wishing" for?

Can you speak without all the partisan projection?

You are wishing that you had light rail service to your trailer.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Oh, I am sorry. I forgot it is only OK when you do it.

I'm sorry, which position did I accuse you of this time?

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

You are wishing that had light rail service to you trailer.

I'm wishing killswitch would come clear my drive, but alas, he sold his snowplow, Glowball Warning was taking all the prophet out of his business...





Sharif don't like it! Rawk the Casbah, rawk the Casbah!

 

[Saint Peter]

I'm wishing killswitch would come clear my drive, but alas, he sold his snowplow, Glowball Warning was taking all the prophet out of his business...





Sharif don't like it! Rawk the Casbah, rawk the Casbah!

I broke down and got a snow blower this year. A big mama. Bring the snow!

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

I broke down and got a snow blower this year. A big mama. Bring the snow!

I'm debating now whether or not I can get out and shovel before the snow melts...

 

[Lancecastor]

I broke down and got a snow blower this year. A big mama. Bring the snow!

A BBW coke-head???

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Look at today's headlines, Brotherhood to join in talks with government to end violence...

"We practice selective annihilation of mayors
And government officials
For example to create a vacuum
Then we fill that vacuum
As popular war advances
Peace is closer"

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

There are people -- many in the media and academia -- who figuratively go bananas if anyone criticizes President Barack Obama. They maintain that he is doing just a great job as if this is beyond any of rational discussion.

And yet what has happened in the Middle East in the first two years of his term?

--The Iranians have continued full speed ahead toward getting nuclear weapons. Though the administration deserves credit for getting higher sanctions through the UN, these have not actually affected the problem.

--The Israel-Palestinian peace process, partly through Obama's mismanagement, has fallen completely apart.

--Lebanon has been taken over by a Hezb'allah-dominated government with Syrian and Iranian tutelage.

--Hamas's control over the Gaza Strip has been stabilized and entrenched due to U.S. policy mistakes.

--Turkey has continued to drift toward the Iran-Syria bloc and disregarded U.S. interests without costs.

--The policy to moderate Syria has failed completely while Damascus is both confident and more aggressive.

--Pakistan seems more and more unstable while not being particularly helpful toward U.S. counterterrorist efforts.

--Obama's charm offensive toward Islamism has yielded no material benefit for U.S. interests.

--The Obama Administration's rush to push out Mubarak's regime has created a very dangerous situation that might spread to other countries.

--Generally, U.S. friends in the region are distressed, doubting they can trust in America's protection; U.S. enemies are encouraged, believing America is weak and in retreat.

...

--U.S. forces have been largely withdrawn from Iraq, though this was in large measure made possible by the surge that Obama opposed and ridiculed. Iraq's governmental situation is in something of a mess.

--No particular progress has been made in Afghanistan while there are dangerous hints of U.S. concessions to the Taliban, while U.S.-Afghan governmental relations are quite rocky.

...

--Israel will not take risks or make concessions based on this administration's promises because it doesn't keep its promises or its commitments. The Administration is only proving the ineptness that Israelis already expected.

--But, of course, the same applies to the Palestinian Authority. Do you think it believes the U.S. government is going to protect it from Hamas?

--Do you think the Saudis and Jordanians believe America will protect them from Iran?

--Do you think the democratic oppositions in Lebanon and Turkey and Iran believe the United States will help them despite what he did in Egypt?

--Unintentionally, the mistakes of the Obama Administration has become a factor spreading the power of radical Islamist movements. People aren't going to like that sentence but it is objectively true. Israelis know it; Arabs know it; Iran's leadership knows it.

These are not partisan statements. They are as true as any critical examination of the Bush Administration's shortcomings. If you wish, you can ignore them. But the Middle East cannot afford that luxury.

Professor Barry Rubin, Director, Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center www.gloria-center.org; The Rubin Report blog rubinreports.blogspot.com; Editor, Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal www.gloria-center.org; Editor Turkish Studies.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Muslim Brotherhood joins talks on Egypt's new government.

That's a step forward, you understand; previously they were balking. Maybe all this can be resolved peacefully now.

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Muslim Brotherhood joins talks on Egypt's new government.

That's a step forward, you understand; previously they were balking. Maybe all this can be resolved peacefully now.

REALLY MAN?

*chuckle*

As Robert Spencer juxtaposes with the comment on his website, Mr. Azlan's optimism is very curious when you consider that a Muslim Brotherhood memorandum specifically states the following:

Their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.

It is difficult to miss the meaning in the line "'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of believers," but our president would still endorse a popular election in Egypt when the leading candidate to institute reform is the Muslim Brotherhood -- the very group that would suggest such deceit to destroy America?


The president likely does so because he is pandering to the sensibilities of America's misguided progressives, who presume that parity exists between Islam's followers in the Middle East and those who follow other religions or those who lack religion altogether. Not only do many of these Americans widely maintain this blind presumption (usually on the weak basis of perhaps knowing Westernized Muslims), but it is often vigorously defended by those who know nothing of Islam or its history. Consider how many times you have heard someone relate the evil crimes of fundamentalist Islam or its literal dogma mandating violence, affronts to human rights, and submission, only to have champions of political correctness remind that person of the Spanish Inquisition, or the Salem Witch Trials, or the poster child of Christian terror, Timothy McVeigh. The purpose of such defenses is not to address the issue of Islam, but to avoid addressing the issue of Islam by suggesting that everyone else is just as bad!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/america_must_lead_not_hype_an.html

KO, why is it that The Moslem Brotherhood is a good thing to have in the Egyptian government, but the Taliban cannot be allowed to be in the Afghanni government?

 

[eyer]

Israel started it.

I tried to tell you earlier, zippy, about starting a thread in which you and so many others have absolutely no idea what you're even thinking about, let alone posting...

...now, here is another "gifted" one to join your kind of self-exhalted "knowledge, logic, and debate skills".

You fourleg in apt company...

 

[Beco]

No just a theory based on having lived with enough men. Supposition is allowed isn't it?

and those men are so lucky to have you around....you're a delight

 

[phrodeau]

REALLY MAN?

*chuckle*


http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/america_must_lead_not_hype_an.html

KO, why is it that The Moslem Brotherhood is a good thing to have in the Egyptian government, but the Taliban cannot be allowed to be in the Afghanni government?

The Taliban was allowed in the Afghani government.

Your knowledge of history needs to go back farther than three weeks.

 

[zipman]

I tried to tell you earlier, zippy, about starting a thread in which you and so many others have absolutely no idea what you're even thinking about, let alone posting...

...now, here is another "gifted" one to join your kind of self-exhalted "knowledge, logic, and debate skills".

You fourleg in apt company...

It seems you have some sort of problem grasping the deep and complex nature of a discussion board. Shockingly, people come here to discuss things and often, *gasp* they disagree.

Most people figure that out right away but since you seemed to be struggling with it so much, I figured I would help explain it.