A submissive's handbook for behavioral and cognative development

[silverfox_66]

I believe that the curious female does not pursue her submissive role in real life for fear of failing to develop her passive nature, or because she was initially turned off by a novice dominant who could not emotionally ease with tact and grace into the submissive lifestyle.

Please assist me with your thoughts on what a "submissive's handbook" should contain. Its purpose is to spur the imagination and growth of the dominant as they carefully use authority, and also is to provide the submissive with a comfort level of knowing the required rules in order to properly demonstrate sexually regressive behavior and passive attitude in her role.

To organize useful feedback, first we must create a basic list of behaviors and attitudes to be encouraged and reinforced by rules in this handbook. Keep in mind that "attitudes" (the way she thinks and speaks) will dictate the appropriate development of her inner self, and "behaviors" (the way she acts) will decide her routines and habits. Once these are organized, we can then get to the governing rules to develop the most desired behaviors and attitudes.

Think hard, but please have fun.

Please follow these simple rules:

(1) First topic: the submissive attitude. How should she feel about (a) herself, (b) her Master, or (c) others who don't know of her tendencies?

(2) Debate issues on this thread with each other to find a consensus. But please be kind enough to send your ideas for each topic to dj_dude007@yahoo.com so they may be properly categorized off line. Please be as brief as possible for each idea.

(3) In e-mails to me, try to stay to the topic until you receive a return e-mail regarding the new topic. Being brief and staying with the topic is: (eg. Attitude: (i) Enjoys satisfying her subservient need (ii) seeks His approval and is reminded of it each time she abides by His detailed rules (iv) feels she is always very close, but just does not have the skills to truly fulfill Him, so she wants to show that she is sorry she disappoints Him. Get the idea?

Topic: the submissive attitude. How should she feel about herself, her master, and others?

(Topic open until Nov 30 unless agreement is reached over this thread to extend/shorten discussion)

***Stick to the topic of the submissive attitude. Try to begin your sentences with "she feels" or "she thinks or believes". This will help us to accomplish our goals and move on.

C'mon, lets make this handbook a success. Please e-mail me after your discussion of the topic as requested above in (3), and have fun !!

 

[KillerMuffin]

I believe that the curious female does not pursue her submissive role in real life for fear of failing to develop her passive nature, or because she was initially turned off by a novice dominant who could not emotionally ease with tact and grace into the submissive lifestyle.

My curiosity is somewhat piqued. Do you mean this to apply to all females or to just those of a submissive bent? This particular statement that is.

As for the rest, I'm am rather unclear about what you're, er, rules are for this thing. Would you care to elucidate?

 

[Ambrosious]

Are you kidding? All women are submissive, some of 'em just haven't learned that yet.

Now go cook me something.

 

[silverfox_66]

KillerMuffin: I am of the dominant type, and have found that there are many females who are "curious" or, yes, "bent" to the submissive lifestyle. They wish to explore this with their boyfriends, husbands, or even seek a skilled Master. However, to be really happy in this exciting lifestyle, she must find consistent rules which excelerates the imagination and promotes longevity to the relationship. My aim is to foster an open discussion which will toss around ideas on the important rules to be embraced by "curious" submissives. It is generally for the "novice" that I would like to ask for any assistance in the compiliation of a submissive's handbook (sub or Domme), if that makes things a bit more lucid for you.

The "rules" to this, that I think you are referring to, my way to keep the discussion focused, while hopefully attaining the goal of thoroughly exploring the lifestyle to agree on the rules of submission. Is this what I need to elaborate on?

Just for the record, although I may be a bit out of the mainstream, I do not encourage heavy bondage, gross public humiliation, or punishment which involves infliction of physical pain. It is of my opinion that these practices shorten relationships.

Hey KillerMuffin, are you gonna help with this handbook or is it not your cup of tea?

silverfox_66

First topic up for discussion: the submissive attitude. How should she feel about herself, about her Master, and how should she regard others?

 

[April]

First: silverfox, in your first post, in section 3, you went from "ii" to "iv", missing "iii".

Second: You're never gonna keep this board to an "assigned" subject. Trying to is an exercise in futility.

Third: Something about your posts has provoked the rebellious bitch in me, so I'll just leave y'all alone before I say something uncalled for. LOL

 

[Guest]

Are you kidding? All women are submissive, some of 'em just haven't learned that yet.

Bow down and worship my feet boy! http://www.pornsurge.com/pics/040.jpg

Lick my toes biach! http://www.bestsexhost.net/adult/foot/6112x138.jpg

 

[KillerMuffin]

I was curious, thank you for clearling that up, somewhat. I have been known to behave submissively before, general in the context of playful roleplay for the enjoyment of my partner. I am not accomplished at this. I would be no help to your... whatever it is. I am stil rather unclear as to what you are attempting to do, your rules, as it were, are murky.

I am, like April, nonsubmissive. Though far more extremely than she is. A submissive posture in me is the surest indicator of violence to come. I am wholly incapable of surrendering control of myself to anyone else, moreover, it offends and enrages me when an attempt is made to entice me to do so.

I apologize for disrupting your thread, this will be the last time I post unless I am specifically asked my opinion.

 

[Gingersnap]

Oh kiss my shiny leather ass will ya

You dominent guys make me laugh........ I would have you eating doggie treats out of my hand in two weeks. Run along home to your little leather phantasy land.

 

[RisiaSkye]

A note

I think that part of the reason that people do not always explore their submissive/dominant fantasies is the fear of societal judgement and expectation. A quick look at the female reaction on this thread illustrates my point. The assumption that interested but inexperienced subs are exclusively female betrays a one-sided and possibly sexist reversion.

Submission and dominance can be beautifully rewarding and intimately bonding experiences. However, the issue becomes tricky when we start considering gender roles. Women are largely *expected* to be subservient, and as KillerMuffin and others have pointed out, many of us react against this societal typing. Men, on the other hand, are often pressured into *dominance* when they aren't really suited to it.

"Bottom" line (no pun ): I think that a "Handbook" which works to inscribe submission in women without considering the ramifications of this choice is doomed to failure. It won't find its audience, because many will be turned off by what appear to be the trappings of simple misogynistic fantasy.

I'll be interested to see where this takes you. I'm a fairly experienced Switch, though I am more comfortable as a Top. I have the idea that the ideas you receive will be largely generated by men, based on the rhetoric being used to solicit assistance. Are you certain this is what you want?



[Edited by RisiaSkye on 11-12-2000 at 09:42 PM]

 

[silverfox_66]

I think you have a good point RisiaSkye. I speak from my role as Master, of a heterosexual orientation. Although I refer to the submissive as "her" because of my sexual preference, I do believe that a gender "switch" would definitely benefit from the same essential conformity of rules that I think is healthy for the novice submissive, as well as the Master/Mistress. Although the emotional "buttons" and "turn-ons" have definite gender distinctions.

But, getting back to the criticism of the dominant heterosexual male role, the reaction to this handbook seems to have taken the spotlight here, which wasn't my intention at all. Do you think it would help to clarify that what I seek here has nothing remotely associated with the degradation of the female by dominant men? Rediscovering and nurturing the submissive nature is not at all a forceful process. It is quite obvious that you do understand that it is by a mutual agreement to live a highly charged, emotionally and sexually stimulating relationship that this type of lifestyle even exists. It is a beautiful thing for the submissive as well as her Master. The roles become more intense not because they are abusive, forceful, or degrading. It is because the relationship has evolved into a dynamic one, where emotional and sexual needs are being met ! Relationships break down when communication breaks down. I don't blame some views for promoting the feminist cause. I applaud the anger. Although it may misdirected here, it is good to see people are willing to speak out against violence, abuse, and gender degradation.

But, as you said, it is society's tendency to judge what is good or bad for couples' "healthy" relationships which convoludes the benefits derived from a submissive's handbook. This is not a 'green book' calling for a religious conversion here. If the sentiment of those who, seriously, get ticked by this discussion is that the female is being lured, or enslaved against her free will, please join the twenty first century. (and take a peek at my previous posts in this thread, my role in encouraging submissiveness is not harmful or threatening in any way).

Thank you for your comments RisiaSkye. I will consider whether this forum is appropriate for the sharing of ideas on this subject, but I have not lost faith in this good group of people to provide some valuable creativity.

C'mon people! Call me narrow-minded perhaps, but don't betray me as some ignorant beast. I'll sick April on you. I swear I will... She hates me you know... And she knows her roman numerals too ! i, ii, iii damit iii, then iv. ...there... I got it!! Ah, April would be soo proud

 

[Sammyjo]

Re: Oh kiss my shiny leather ass will ya

You dominent guys make me laugh........ I would have you eating doggie treats out of my hand in two weeks. Run along home to your little leather phantasy land.

No kidding...and thank you for saying it. I've been in a D/s relationship for two years...one wouldn't know it though. The only time he is like that with me is when we see each other, which has only been for a total of 12 days in those 2 years. Once in a while, he will say something like, send me a pair of worn panties (which quite a few people have asked for anyway), or send me a "video", call me and cum for me on my voicemail, or do this or that. But, I'm telling you, in order to be a good Master, and to have an obedient slave, you need to be in the role more times than not. You need to show your slave who is in control, blah, blah, blah...I think someone should write a manual on how to be a good Master, because I've yet to experience with a man what I need to keep me in check...of course, that will never happen anyway because like Ginger said, he's eating out of my hand as we speak...some men have no self-control when it comes to me.

 

[Cheyenne]

I am, like April, nonsubmissive. Though far more extremely than she is. A submissive posture in me is the surest indicator of violence to come. I am wholly incapable of surrendering control of myself to anyone else, moreover, it offends and enrages me when an attempt is made to entice me to do so.

Amen, sister. I didn't even open this thread until now because I'm not really interested in the topic. Having caught up on the rest of the interesting threads, I took a peek here. My reaction was the same as April's and yours.

 

[Hecate]

Rather than a manual for a sub ...

.. I would love to see a manual for a Dom / Domme! (and no, I won't even get started on gender-related patterns of behaviour in this field).

I seriously do have the feeling - not only from the time spent here on this board, that there are far more women (and men) admitting to having a submissive side than to having a dominant one. So I for one would ask if really we have to encourage the subs to come forward instead of encouraging people with a dominant streak to live their inclination.

And this is where it becomes difficult in my opinion! I am talking about a skilled Mistress / Master who KNOWS what he/she is doing (both, physically and psychologically) and not an asshole (of either gender) who just has a cruel abusive streak in their personality.

NOTE: Calling yourself Master/Mistress does not entitle you to react as an ignorant ass and feel good about it! Abusive behaviour is NEVER excusable!

Another point I have stressed for I don't know how many times is the fact that a D/s relation is not necessarrily equaling a SM relation!!! So again - before I would encourage anyone to venture to either the Dom or sub side I would wish those myths were cleared up. Again - I still find that a lot more people have a problem admitting they are having a dominant streak for the fear of being mistaken for brute, selfish, in the case of a male macho beings who do not care and just are seeking for ways to enforce their power, usually in a physical form.

OK - did I finally manage to bore you all to death hearing me ramble about this over and over again?? Then it is time to address the question itself huh? Got a little off topic and out of the requested line I am afraid


How should a sub feel about her/himself, her/his Master/Mistress, others...

No straight forward answer to this one ... very much would depend on the circumstances .. are we talking an erotic-based and timewise limited D/s scene? a strictly D/s relation for sexual purposes? or a loving partners relation that happens to have clearly prefered and corresponding D/s roles assigned to it?

... plus as stated somewhere on my site, I choose a sub for what he/she is, the character, the feelings and the hidden secrets he/she wants to explore, the limits he/she needs to push to become a "more complete" person, so to say what I would assume a sub is feeling is as hard to generalize as it is to say that all leaves are green or all skies are blue.

I would hope that in all of those cases my sub would feel giving him/herself to me as a gift in the first place and that they strife to please me in all their actions.

I would hope my sub feels save with me and trusts me enough to make even those "to the limit" experiences enjoyable for him/her.

I would wish my sub to not worry about what others may think as long as he/she is with me since I and my opinion should be all that matters (but then again I am not into humiliation so there is not a lot of "danger" in this point with me in charge).

I would hope my sub to be willing to give him/herself up completely to make me happy and go to his/her limits to do so.

I would wish my subs to love me and respect me, but never really fear me (never should they fear that I loose control over my actions).

I require my sub to always address me with respect and the title I chose.

I require my sub once trained to act according to the things he/she has been taught (and those vary WIDELY depending on the circumstances and the persons involved).

BUT MOST I require my subs to keep their personality - because I love them for their own special unique attributes that made me choose them in the first place ... and I sure don't want a puppet on a string!


I hope at least half of it made sense ...

To you silverfox_66 - good luck with your manual. Although I think it a nice idea I am afraid chances to get it right are as good as a manual for a happy relation in general. People are different and so are their expectations to whatever topic you may choose to discuss. And as soon as we get to the interaction level including powers and desires, fears and dreams, the ways of dealing with it are as personal as are the characters involved.

What I stated above are strictly my personal experiences and opinions - and they work for me and usually those involved with me ... as for others, they may not even qualify me as a Domme seeing my attitude to some points...


PS: I subscribe the list of those stating that not all females have a submissive streak and I seriously challenge the opinion that all males then should be having a dominant side I bet you are surprised now *g*

For those Ladies that may suffer from low blood pressure and are not seeing themselves in slave chains I strongly advise the GOR-series by John Norman *winks* - trust me, the concept depicted there sure would make for some "sparkling" conversations *chuckling*

For those of you seeking proofe of the "all females are slaves, they just need to be shown" theorie I equally advise the series ... you sure will find all sorts of valid argumentation in this field (from a male point of view, just in case you were wondering )

 

[Cheyenne]

Point and counterpoint


First, I get along very well with Hecate and consider her a friend. None of what follows should be considered a personal attack against her beliefs. I prefer a relationship of equals, neither being dominate over the other.

I would hope that in all of those cases my sub would feel giving him/herself to me as a gift in the first place and that they strife to please me in all their actions.

I prefer that each partner in the relationship strive to please the other.

I would hope my sub feels save with me and trusts me enough to make even those "to the limit" experiences enjoyable for him/her.

Feeling safe with your partner is a universal requirement, I think, for a good relationship of any kind.

I would wish my sub to not worry about what others may think as long as he/she is with me since I and my opinion should be all that matters (but then again I am not into humiliation so there is not a lot of "danger" in this point with me in charge).

My opinion of myself matters most. My partner's opinion is important, but definitely not "all that matters" in a relationship of equals.

I would hope my sub to be willing to give him/herself up completely to make me happy and go to his/her limits to do so.

In a relationship of equals, both will willingly do whatever possible to make the other happy. I see no joy in giving being one-sided.

I would wish my subs to love me and respect me, but never really fear me (never should they fear that I loose control over my actions).

Agreed. Good rule for any relationship.

I require my sub to always address me with respect and the title I chose.

Only if you are my boss and paying me to kiss your ass. Otherwise, you earn my respect and you get no title from me at all (unless you're the queen of England or something along that line) unless it is an affectionate title along the lines of Sweetie, Dear, etc.

I require my sub once trained to act according to the things he/she has been taught (and those vary WIDELY depending on the circumstances and the persons involved).

Here is the biggest difference. I believe you train animals, not people.

Give me an equal partner, or give me nothing at all.

 

[Hecate]

Re: Point and counterpoint

Uhhoohh - now this is going to go off topic ... sorry silverfox

Thanks Cheyenne - you sure help me to point out a few things better than I had been able had I tried *S* one of them mainly being that D/s relations are not too different from your "average vanilla love" relation. So please don't see this following comment as a direct response to Cheyenne - I sure wouldn't want to get into an argument with you babe, you'd beat me by LENGTH!! but another chance to "elaborate" my point of view that sure (as demanded by the opening post of the thread) was concentrated strongly on the sub side of things. Hope you don't mind me "using" you like that Cheyenne

Originally posted by Hecate

I would hope that in all of those cases my sub would feel giving him/herself to me as a gift in the first place and that they strife to please me in all their actions.

I prefer that each partner in the relationship strive to please the other.

I never said that in a D/s relation ONLY the sub strifes to please - you just don't SAY that you as a Domme do too *S* it actually is NOT EASY (and hell of a lot of work and consideration) to assume such a role of responsibility at all times as some subs seem to expect!

I would hope my sub feels save with me and trusts me enough to make even those "to the limit" experiences enjoyable for him/her.

Feeling safe with your partner is a universal requirement, I think, for a good relationship of any kind.

Exactly what Cheyenne said!!


I would wish my sub to not worry about what others may think as long as he/she is with me since I and my opinion should be all that matters (but then again I am not into humiliation so there is not a lot of "danger" in this point with me in charge).

My opinion of myself matters most. My partner's opinion is important, but definitely not "all that matters" in a relationship of equals.

I never would have thought about this aspect if it hadn't been explicitly asked in the opening post, so when I answered it was related to either my opinion (or a mutual one in regards to the lifestyle we BOTH chose willingly) as opposed to the opinion of a non-related third party .. and sorry but if I and my partner chose to have our hair died green and our respective other's names tattooed across our forehead I think that should be counting more than what anyone else thinks!


I would hope my sub to be willing to give him/herself up completely to make me happy and go to his/her limits to do so.

In a relationship of equals, both will willingly do whatever possible to make the other happy. I see no joy in giving being one-sided.

As I said above - I never said the Dom wasn't as willing to go to length to make the other party happy, even though it may look differently from the outside.

I want to take this opportunity to state a little something about the "demands of a sub". Have you read about how many people on this BB like spankings? getting a little rough at sex, being called names etc.? And did you notice how many complained that their SO wouldn't provide the "control" they would want?

It is not always the sub doing "a favour" to the Dom!!!!! In as many cases I would say the Dom was "shoved" into the role and now has to fight to fill it to make his SO happy. It often is not easy to treat someone you are madly in love with in a seemingly rough way! Let alone administer physical pain - but you do it because you know he/she craves it, desires this feeling.



I would wish my subs to love me and respect me, but never really fear me (never should they fear that I loose control over my actions).

Agreed. Good rule for any relationship.

Again - exactly what Cheyenne said!


I require my sub to always address me with respect and the title I chose.

Only if you are my boss and paying me to kiss your ass. Otherwise, you earn my respect and you get no title from me at all (unless you're the queen of England or something along that line) unless it is an affectionate title along the lines of Sweetie, Dear, etc.

Now here we have a difference to one of the "normal" relations - but then again *winks* there had to bee some, right??

I would take this bit as part of the "role play" ... even I doubt the healthy side of an all time 24/7 D/s relation. So you need to have some means to distinguish which "mode" you are in - in my case it usually is the title to set the "frame for the game". It too is (for me personally anyway) some "shield" to distinguish the seemingly abusive behaviour from the caring me .. I am sure that doesn't make a lot of sense but I do not know how to describe it any better.


I require my sub once trained to act according to the things he/she has been taught (and those vary WIDELY depending on the circumstances and the persons involved).

Here is the biggest difference. I believe you train animals, not people.

I admit that "train" was maybe a bad choice of words here *s* give me advantage of second language ok?

For one thing, similar to the title (or the insult seeing it the other way round) used when in that "mode" I feel the rules help to maintain a sort of equlibrium in that relation, plus making it possible to draw a line between what is and what is not acceptable.

I seriously have to request again to not see those "rules" as means of repression! What I think though is that specially in a relation in which power exchange is playing a mayor role, there are CLEAR and UNDERSTOOD rules to the protection of both partners.

As an example I just want to mention the "safeword" rule!!! I have to be 100% certain that a sub will USE it if ever needed! I can NOT read the mind of anyone no matter how good I think to know him/her!

Another reason for those "rules" is the fact that some submissives WANT to live that role but feel, due to social pressure they can't. A Dom who cares to help them to explore that side needs to find a way to make them admit to this side (and I am talking about this happening after a long process of mutual trust, endless hours of confessing your darkest deepest desires etc.) and pretty helpfull are those seemingly one-sided commands that give the sub the "right set of mind" to let go and slip into the according "role".


Give me an equal partner, or give me nothing at all.

If you were in love and found out your SO had submissive tendencies ... would you deny him/her to explore that desire??

[/B]

Final statement: A Dom is NOT the one taking only - a sub is NOT the one giving only. It is a mutual struggle just as in any other relation, only the forms of taking and giving are different... imho anyway, and as I said, this probably is going to ruin my Mistress reputation completely


PS: I am not putting the effort into this post for any defensive reason - but I was hoping to get rid of a few prejudices and encourage people to explore either the Dom or sub side without thinking in extremes only.

Again - each of us is different, and what floats your boat may sink mine, so please do NOT experiment with this lifestyle if you find it repulsive. All I ask is to tolerate those who CONSENSUALLY (is that a word??) chose that way to express their feelings for each other.

 

[April]

LOL at silverfox. No, I don't hate you. It's just the way you stated your case rose my hackles. You should take lessons from Hecate. Even though English is her second language, she's very good at putting her ideas out there.

I am, in fact, a little submissive, but the very idea of "rules", and being required to act in a constrained and specific way just sends me off in the other direction.

Okay, now this is way off the subject, but how can women stand to wear shoes like that? (referring to Tiggs' post) Her toes are hangin' off the end of the shoe. That would drive me nuts!

 

[Expertise]

Shoes Nance!?

Damn it you're a female!

Why aren't you barefoot, pregnant and submissive!?

 

[April]

I am barefoot at the moment, but I refuse to be the other two! You don't want me, anyway. Always playing with Juliangel and others. *bursts into tears and runs away*

j/k

 

[Expertise]

Oh stop.

You have hardly been around for a month, and you know damn well that I would play with you anytime.

So there

 

[April]

It's not my fault I had to get a job, and my time here is very limited during the day. Why don't you start working at night so we can play? Huh? And I offered to call you, but you never answered my email. Brat. Oh well. I'm not even going to tell you when I'll be here most of the day this week! Just to add insult to injury, neener, neener, neener!

 

[Expertise]

...a woman scorned....

Vengeful little cuss aren't you.

Tis a shame since I am virtually alone in the office today.

Oh well, sucks to be me.

 

[April]

If I didn't like you, I wouldn't talk to you. Or I could give you the same treatment I gave to someone we won't mention! Anyway, I think we've hijacked silverfox's thread enough for now. I'm off to take a shower (hehe) and get ready for work. Hopefully I'll have enough time for the board before I leave for the day.

 

[Juliangel]

Oh well, sucks to be me.

Well it could suck to be you or we could think up The Desk part 2 It would involve sucking.

 

[Expertise]

Should now end the hijack of this poor guys thread

The Desk II

Who says sequels are never as good.

 

[Juliangel]

Re: Should now end the hijack of this poor guys thread

The Desk II

Who says sequels are never as good.

Ok hijacking is ending but I may just write up part 2 today keep an eye out and if you like write part 3 and in response to your comment about part 1 you can lick and thing you like