A Slight Rant

[Guest]

 

[zeb1094]

Whilst I agree with many of the spellings here in the colonies, there are those that do tend to make it slightly easier to read. Color has no 'you' in it. It does however have hue.

 

[zeb1094]

I would agree that America still has regional accents, although perhaps not as much as it used to. Still, my buddy Otter from Cali sounds different from LK, who's from Bahston, who sounds different from my girlfriend from Georgia. I even believe Otter when he tells me I have a Midwestern accent.

Oh, and I can tell geographical differences in UK accents. I might have a hard time spotting socioeconomic status, but it's so easy to tell a Welsh accent from a Scots or London one it's not even funny.

Accents from the UK. Newcastle, I know that one. Manchester, know that too. Cockney, heard it. None that hard to comprehend. What gives me trouble is the India accent overlayed with a British accent.

 

[York]

Funny - I'm American and prefer the British spellings of things. As an example, when I'm not posting stories to Lit, I'll normally type realise instead of realize. With my first few stories, I had multiple editors tell me that would hurt my scores.

That's incredible! Should the British put a disclaimer at the top of our stories saying "don't mark me down, you must realise I'm from Britain"?! Or is it only when you're American and you use British English spelling?

I remember reading somewhere that the spelling the Americans use for a lot of words is closer to what the English used to use in the times of the Pilgrims. (Although that may have been a Bill Bryson "fact" so it might need to be taken with a large pinch of salt.)

Many British English words are spelled in the French way (like centre for example) which makes sence as French was the language of the gentry until only a few hundred years ago. This would lead me to suspect not all American spellings are how the British would spell three or four hundred years ago.

Much as I love the eccentricities of our spelling you have (one has) to admit the American way is often more phonetic!

And while I'm rambling on aimlessly, I can tell apart accents from New York, Boston, Texas, (strong - would this be Valley?) California and then generic American accents.

Can people tell the difference between accents from New Zealand and Australia?!

 

[amicus]

Oy thoink Perfesser 'enry 'iggin's left the most telling evidence concerning limey language with 'the rine in spine fahls minely on the pline'

And I swear, listening in to the women chatter at the market in Picadilly Place, I could have used a translator.

Love em anyway and the Aussies downunder lingo as well.

amicus...

 

[English Lady]

I so often get good comments about me being "so very British" but then, with a handle like mine, people expect English English from me *LOL*

 

[AppleBiter]

On the accents thing, I have to say I absolutely LOVE New York accents!! *melts* I don't think I have a midwestern accent, but my father has a very heavy Oklahoma cowboy accent and it comes out in some words that I say. Like "tray-ash" (trash) and "pee-un" (pen). It doesn't even come out all the time . . . just every once in a while. I usually hear about it when it does.

 

[oggbashan]

Strine

is Australian English.

I used to be able to distinguish South Australian from Victorian Strine; NSW from Queensland and Western Australian was easy.

Now? The accents are so intermingled that I find it difficult.

What struck me first about the Australian accent was that it could not, as in the UK, be used as a rough indicator of socio-economic class. The broadest Strine accent might be from the 'squattocracy', and the closest to standard English might be a 'sundowner' (hobo).

What really grated on my English ear was the middle-aged middle-class women's screech - a dreadful sound only surpassed by the jack-hammer noise of kookaburras disturbed on their roost at night.

Thankfully the suburban 'screech' is less common than it was. It was disappearing as Australians discovered that they had culture and mature appreciation of fine arts and could actually admit it without being thought of as drongos or woofters.

Australian TV soaps such as 'Home and Away' and 'Neighbours' used to sound as if the actors were taking elocution lessons. The Strine accent was toned down for UK audiences to such an extent that Australian audiences felt that the actors were Pommies pretending to be Australians.

I still have a cassette tape of Australian Folk songs for schools. It was recorded with such a ridiculous clarity of diction that each singer sounds like Professor Higgins from 'My Fair Lady'. 'The Wild Australian Boy' sounds as if he had never left Grosvenor Square.

Back to topic. I write in British English and so far have only received one adverse comment about my spelling. Whether it makes readers backclick? I don't know.

Og

 

[Carmenica Diaz]

The Australian and New Zealand accents appear to be rather nasal, like they all have sinus problems. The rising inflexion can also be annoying.

 

[Guest]

 

[BlackShanglan]

I still have a cassette tape of Australian Folk songs for schools. It was recorded with such a ridiculous clarity of diction that each singer sounds like Professor Higgins from 'My Fair Lady'. 'The Wild Australian Boy' sounds as if he had never left Grosvenor Square.

Og, I love you for this. I now have the image of Freddy Eynsford Hill dancing about Grosvenor Square in his frock coat, gloves, and cane singing "The Wild Australian Boy."

 

[BlackShanglan]

I found one study on UK accents quite interesting. The study worked with two groups of people, one composed of those who lived in the UK and one composed of English-speaking people who lived elsewhere. Intriguingly, they had quite different perceptions of accents' qualities and effects. Those who lived in the UK tended to rate as most pleasant accents associated with the upper classes and "BBC"-style accents - the UK equivalent of what in the US is sometimes called "Network." Those accents rated lowest were Liverpool and Irish accents. However, for persons who lived outside of the UK, the reverse was true. They tended to describe the Irish and Liverpool accents as musical and appealing and to rate the upper crust accent lowest.

I know what the study's authors were attempting to test; they wanted to see whether people's perceptions of accents were actually based on sound, or whether they were more rooted in social/class associations with the accent. I wonder if they succeeded, however. It's difficult for me to say; I've always had an ear for accents, and even US public television was enough to teach me from quite an early age which accent went with which role in life. I'm not sure how much or little the average non-UK person knows, though. Sometimes it seems like nothing - the SO has had guesses ranging from Swiss to Spanish (the SO is English), so clearly some people don't recognize even the country. Still, I wonder whether study demonstrates that within the UK status trumps sound and outside of it the reverse is true, or whether it demonstrates that people outside of the UK are less likely to associate "upper crust" with "pleasant."

It is a puzzlement - but an interesting one.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

I found one study on UK accents quite interesting. The study worked with two groups of people, one composed of those who lived in the UK and one composed of English-speaking people who lived elsewhere. Intriguingly, they had quite different perceptions of accents' qualities and effects. Those who lived in the UK tended to rate as most pleasant accents associated with the upper classes and "BBC"-style accents - the UK equivalent of what in the US is sometimes called "Network." Those accents rated lowest were Liverpool and Irish accents. However, for persons who lived outside of the UK, the reverse was true. They tended to describe the Irish and Liverpool accents as musical and appealing and to rate the upper crust accent lowest.

I know what the study's authors were attempting to test; they wanted to see whether people's perceptions of accents were actually based on sound, or whether they were more rooted in social/class associations with the accent. I wonder if they succeeded, however. It's difficult for me to say; I've always had an ear for accents, and even US public television was enough to teach me from quite an early age which accent went with which role in life. I'm not sure how much or little the average non-UK person knows, though. Sometimes it seems like nothing - the SO has had guesses ranging from Swiss to Spanish (the SO is English), so clearly some people don't recognize even the country. Still, I wonder whether study demonstrates that within the UK status trumps sound and outside of it the reverse is true, or whether it demonstrates that people outside of the UK are less likely to associate "upper crust" with "pleasant."

It is a puzzlement - but an interesting one.

Shanglan

Hmmmm....that's interesting. It does fascinate me how much social class and breeding are still considered relevant.

That said, I do so love it when she talks "posh".

 

[Kev H]

Rather tired of Americans suggesting that I have not spelt words correctly.

Can I remind you, the language is “English”? Not, “Americanish”!

Thanks so much.

(Rant over, it’s safe to come back into the water.)

What a truly strange girl...did I spell that correctly?

 

[oggbashan]

Hmmmm....that's interesting. It does fascinate me how much social class and breeding are still considered relevant.

That said, I do so love it when she talks "posh".

Most UK people used to be able to speak received pronunciation even if their normal everyday speech had a regional accent. It was a product of our schooling and the BBC, particularly radio. A dustman could speak to a Duke and the Duke could reply and both would understand each other IF they modified their speech to that they were taught at school.

Unfortunately that is not true of recent school pupils. Allowing undisciplined freedom of expression has downgraded the teaching of standard English. The language of the playground has become the language of the classroom.

However, BBC English, as broadcast in the 1940s and 1950s, now sounds incredibly dated. The announcers' crisp-cut vowels and the clear enunication seem ridiculous, almost like caricatures of English. Upper class people, particularly the younger generation, have adopted affected accents that distinguish them from the hoi polloi and almost anyone else. Sloane Square English is as different from received pronunication as Cockney and both are equally artificial. Any person speaking rhyming Cockney is likely to be putting on an act for the tourists.

There are still genuine differences between regional accents and even vocabulary. Those differences now evolve rapidly. A person who used to speak a local dialect who returns to his native town after ten years away would sound very dated, as dated as 1960s beat poets.

I think it is unfortunate that 'youf' culture in the UK is too influenced by commercial considerations and promotion of the new. Gangsta rap may be the latest street talk. I may be out of date. In a few weeks Gangsta will be so yesterday...

Og

Edited for PS: Call Centres have carried out research into which UK accent carries which nuances for the person calling them.

Lowland Scots is considered trustworthy and good for financial services such as selling insurance.

Welsh is good for Arts and Crafts.

Most English regional accents are considered inappropriate for call centres.

Estuary and standard English can be used for most purposes as long as a Lowland Scot is available to act as a 'supervisor' if there are problems...

 

[York]

with the upper classes and "BBC"-style accents - the UK equivalent of what in the US is sometimes called "Network." Those accents rated lowest were Liverpool and Irish accents. However, for persons who lived outside of the UK, the reverse was true. They tended to describe the Irish and Liverpool accents as musical and appealing and to rate the upper crust accent lowest.

Interesting about the Irish. I assume that's Northern Irish as a lot people I know (including me) adore a soft Southern Irish accent. One of the women in our Dublin office has a voice that I could sit an listen to all day.

To me, the worst accent is where I live: the Mancunian accent, where people don't say Pizza, they say Peats-oh with the accent on the "oh" - the "oh" being sharp and short. Other similar words are pronounced in the same manner, such as area become airy-oh. Liverpool accents are positively sing-song in comparison.

It really is quite staggering that two cities such as Manchester and Liverpool, that are only around 50km apart, should have two accents that are so very different.

 

[minsue]

To me, the worst accent is where I live: the Mancunian accent, where people don't say Pizza, they say Peats-oh with the accent on the "oh" - the "oh" being sharp and short.

But can they say taco? Or do all you Brits insist on calling it a TACK-oh?


She's gonna hurt me for that one, isn't she? Ooops.

 

[kendo1]

Ah! Lowland Scots.
Coming from Edinburgh, apart from the regional dialects, one(!) can tell the difference between different localities in the city.
Whether a person comes from Gorgie or Leith, or the more affluent suburbs such as Colinton, Juniper Green, Currie, and Balerno to the west of the city, or the 'fur coat and no knicker brigade' of Morningside.
There is such a rich diversity of accents in Scotland, from the lilt of the Islands to the harsher sounds from Aberdeen and Glasgow. And of course you can tell the difference between the , shall we say, educated and maybe blue collar accents of Glasgow.
People are judged by how they speak, here.

Do those across the pond form opinions on someones background due to their accents?

ken

PS Hi Ami!

 

[minsue]

Do those across the pond form opinions on someones background due to their accents?

We do to an extent, but I don't think we form as much of a socio-economic opinion about a person quite as much as you all do. There is some, but not to the same extent. But then, I think that's probably because it's not as important here as it is there. Or at least, as it seems to this outsider.

 

[English Lady]

Interesting about the Irish. I assume that's Northern Irish as a lot people I know (including me) adore a soft Southern Irish accent. One of the women in our Dublin office has a voice that I could sit an listen to all day.

To me, the worst accent is where I live: the Mancunian accent, where people don't say Pizza, they say Peats-oh with the accent on the "oh" - the "oh" being sharp and short. Other similar words are pronounced in the same manner, such as area become airy-oh. Liverpool accents are positively sing-song in comparison.

It really is quite staggering that two cities such as Manchester and Liverpool, that are only around 50km apart, should have two accents that are so very different.

Ahh, we muxt live somewhere in the same area, my daughter sometimes picks up that annoying "oh" and I cringe each time I hear it.

My accent is pretty posh, as I'm originally from an area that ocnsiders itself to be Cheshire, and not anything to do with greater manchester and then I moved to the wirral. I adore Scouse accents EXCEPT the really, really, really harsh accents which are all spit and S's, especially on a woman. A scouse woman yelling is a terrifying thing, I can tell you.

I really don't like brummie accents, I just can't get past the "blah, blah, blah" of the intonation -it's almost depressive to my ear -not good news as my hubs lived in birmingham when I first talked to him on a phone -I nearly took it no further, but then I caught the hint of his scouse accent underneath -yummy.

We looked at accent and dialent in our language part of the A-level I did, and it was fascinating. We saw a survey during one class and it showed that most people from a sample asked, loved Irish, welsh and scottish accents the most (rural areas) and hated scouse, mancunian, brummie and cockney the most (city accents) - the people were all from within the UK. It was really interesting to see how people loved countryside accents. When I chose mine though, top of the list was scouse -I'm nothing if I'm not different

 

[oggbashan]

Accent is blind

I don't know whether it is true for other countries, but in the UK it is often impossible to deduce a person's racial ancestry or skin colour from their accent.

The first generation of immigrants may find it difficult to lose the accent of their homeland but second and subsequent generations tend to adopt the local accent and words they heard at school - when speaking English.

I used to employ people in towns across the whole of the UK and I could usually identify any of my people ringing me at work by their voice and local accent. I might know, because I recruited her, that Miss White was actually brown-skinned and of West Indian parentage, but her voice was pure Birmingham. (Name changed to protect the innocent).

The voice from Belfast was obvious, as were those from South Shields, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Swansea. Basildon and Braintree, both in Essex were more difficult but one was soprano and one contralto.

Tiger Bay in South Wales used to be a great place for budding Professor Higgins-types. The racial mixture was wide but the accent was unique - Tiger Bay Welsh-accented English - whether the speaker's parents were Chinese, African, Afro-Caribbean or anything else, even pure-bred Welsh.

Long live human differences...

Og (descended from generations of educated Cockneys)

 

[York]

But can they say taco? Or do all you Brits insist on calling it a TACK-oh?


She's gonna hurt me for that one, isn't she? Ooops.

We all say Tack-oh, but with the long oh, as in "oh my gosh". How else would you say it?!

(The Mancunian Peats-oh is much shorter and sharper, more like a gasp I suppose.)

 

[TheEarl]

But can they say taco? Or do all you Brits insist on calling it a TACK-oh?


She's gonna hurt me for that one, isn't she? Ooops.

I'm just trying to work out another way of saying that? How else would you pronounce it, apart from TACK-oh?

The Earl

 

[minsue]

We all say Tack-oh, but with the long oh, as in "oh my gosh". How else would you say it?!

(The Mancunian Peats-oh is much shorter and sharper, more like a gasp I suppose.)

Tah-co. There is no "a" as in "at" or "tack" in Spanish. Drives me mad.

 

[TheEarl]

Tah-co. There is no "a" as in "at" or "tack" in Spanish. Drives me mad.

You pronounce it TAR-co?

That's so gorram weird!

The Earl