A Slight Rant

[minsue]

You pronounce it TAR-co?

That's so gorram weird!

The Earl

You people and your Rs....

This is how it's pronounced - taco

 

[York]

Tah-co. There is no "a" as in "at" or "tack" in Spanish. Drives me mad.

OK, just had a lesson from my polyglot wife. It seems that both the a and o should be short, whereas we make the o long. You learn summat new every day!

I wonder whether American Spanish pronounce taco differenly to Iberian Spanish!

 

[BlackShanglan]

We do to an extent, but I don't think we form as much of a socio-economic opinion about a person quite as much as you all do. There is some, but not to the same extent. But then, I think that's probably because it's not as important here as it is there. Or at least, as it seems to this outsider.

Oooh. A chance to wrangle with the gosling. How can I pass it up?

I don't agree on this one. I've known many southerners who felt that their accents changed how people perceived them and many northerners who did have stereotyped perceptions of people with southern accents - particularly the Appalachian and eastern upstate strains, as opposed to the rather aristocratic-sounding high Charleston. I think you can see the same attitudes toward a strong Bronx accent (which, like Manchester accents, is an amazing little phenomena in its very specific location) and toward the accents and speech patterns common to other inner city areas.

Even within individual communities, one sees a fair bit of that as well; the southern accent/dialect spoke on some of the islands near Charleston has very distinct differences to standard English and can be difficult for non-speakers to understand, and it is generally perceived as having very different socio-economic connotations to the high Charleston. That leads to the sort of difficult decisions that Og describes in England - balancing out the preservation of the culture and language itself (which liguistically is fascinating) with the need to educate children in a language that will allow them flexibility and earning power in the working world.

No easy answers there. It's the same difficulty many entire countries in Africa and Asia currently face; the tyranny of a single language enforced upon a diverse population that may speak dozens, or the fragmentation, confusion, and division fostered when everyone speaks something different.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

OK, just had a lesson from my polyglot wife. It seems that both the a and o should be short, whereas we make the o long. You learn summat new every day!

I wonder whether American Spanish pronounce taco differenly to Iberian Spanish!

Must be different because the o is long in the Americas it's the a that y'all are doing wrong. Spanish over here doesn't have the ă (hope that character comes through in the post) vowel sound.

 

[minsue]

Oooh. A chance to wrangle with the gosling. How can I pass it up?

I don't agree on this one. I've known many southerners who felt that their accents changed how people perceived them and many northerners who did have stereotyped perceptions of people with southern accents - particularly the Appalachian and eastern upstate strains, as opposed to the rather aristocratic-sounding high Charleston. I think you can see the same attitudes toward a strong Bronx accent (which, like Manchester accents, is an amazing little phenomena in its very specific location) and toward the accents and speech patterns common to other inner city areas.

Even within individual communities, one sees a fair bit of that as well; the southern accent/dialect spoke on some of the islands near Charleston has very distinct differences to standard English and can be difficult for non-speakers to understand, and it is generally perceived as having very different socio-economic connotations to the high Charleston. That leads to the sort of difficult decisions that Og describes in England - balancing out the preservation of the culture and language itself (which liguistically is fascinating) with the need to educate children in a language that will allow them flexibility and earning power in the working world.

No easy answers there. It's the same difficulty many entire countries in Africa and Asia currently face; the tyranny of a single language enforced upon a diverse population that may speak dozens, or the fragmentation, confusion, and division fostered when everyone speaks something different.

Shanglan

It well could be because of where I'm from. We don't really have an accent here (though Mats will argue with me on that one ) and most of the population has moved here from somewhere else. So there is no one regional accent and instead there are a ton of them. That likely alters my perceptions.

That and the fact that I'm all sorts of drugged up on cold meds.

 

[TheEarl]

See, now that's not that far away from how I'd pronounce it. Kind of a takko.

The Earl

 

[York]

Ahh, we muxt live somewhere in the same area, my daughter sometimes picks up that annoying "oh" and I cringe each time I hear it.

I guess there's little you can do about it exept hope she doesn't go on to use it all the time. I remember when I was growing up my parents admonishing me for not saying my aitches and wondering why she was giving me grief for dropping them and mad me a little more determined to speak less posh.

I've seen the error of my ways now, obviously!

 

[Maryland]

Regional Dialects

and Louisiana is in a class all it's own.

I was taught in school, many years ago, that the American language is considered derivative slang by the British. They have always maintained that the Americans developed the language to distinguish themselves from the English for the same reason they broke from England in the first place. to displeasure King George. I was also taught that the different states and regions in the US are dialects and not considered a part of the english language proper. Now, as to Louisiana I will concede. I have never heard what that one really is, LOL.

 

[Guest]

I'm just sick of Europeans informing me that y'all is not an acceptable contraction of You All.

YOU ALL should try living in the South!!!

 

[BlackShanglan]

It well could be because of where I'm from. We don't really have an accent here (though Mats will argue with me on that one ) and most of the population has moved here from somewhere else. So there is no one regional accent and instead there are a ton of them. That likely alters my perceptions.

That and the fact that I'm all sorts of drugged up on cold meds.

Damn. Drugged-up gosling ... talk about missing my window of opportunity.

Hope you're feeling better, oh downy one.

 

[English Lady]

I guess there's little you can do about it exept hope she doesn't go on to use it all the time. I remember when I was growing up my parents admonishing me for not saying my aitches and wondering why she was giving me grief for dropping them and mad me a little more determined to speak less posh.

I've seen the error of my ways now, obviously!

She's obviously seen my dislike of it, as she doesn't use the "oh" so much now (at home anyways*L*) thank goodness. I think we're probably considered quite posh round here *L* Even my husband, who only has the very softest of scouse accents *purr*

I love accents, all different accents. When out and about (in manchester especially) I hear so many accents, some are speaking english though it's not their own language and other times I hear them speaking a completely different language, russian, german, french, a whole host of african accents, Indian as well as Pakistani, Australian, American and a whole host more. It's glorious. I love listening to the richness of all these different ways of speaking. It amazes me really.


I dont know about anyone else, but I occassionally push my natural acent so it's more pronounced, I used to do it especially at a summer camp I would go to here 90 % of the people were southerners. I liked being the northerner, so I played up to it I remember other people rather lost their accents, picking up others as the week progressed. I don't seem to do that well, although years of living near liverpool has brought me a scouse way of saying "burger" *chuckles*

 

[oggbashan]

I was taught in school, many years ago, that the American language is considered derivative slang by the British. They have always maintained that the Americans developed the language to distinguish themselves from the English for the same reason they broke from England in the first place. to displeasure King George. I was also taught that the different states and regions in the US are dialects and not considered a part of the english language proper. Now, as to Louisiana I will concede. I have never heard what that one really is, LOL.

Welcome to the Author's Hangout.

I think that what you were taught in school about British and American history was as wrong as what British children are taught. The development of the English language was and is an on-going process. Any English speaking group that is isolated from other groups is likely to diverge from standard English, whatever that is, over time. For example, the mutineers from HMS Bounty developed a dialect of their own in a few short years.

The US War of Independence had many causes and was not wholly the colonists against the UK. It wasn't to 'displeasure King George' but to ensure that they were fairly represented in the government of the day. 'No taxation without representation' was an accurate rallying cry that would have been popular in the UK as well. Many people in the UK sympathised with the situation in the 13 colonies and were trying to change the government's attitude.

The tories/loyalists/traitors/whatever you want to call them were fairly strong in some of the states and were poorly treated at the end of the war. Many of those would have been of the class that spoke standard English of the time. I suspect that George Washington's manner of speech would have passed unnoticed in contemporary London.

The significant developments in the US language were not from a deliberate attempt to distance themselves from the UK but a gradual change forced by separation of one group of English speakers from another. The changes in spelling were designed to make (US) English easier to write and to learn. There had been movements in the UK to improve spelling. Bernard Shaw was the last major player to advocate radical change to UK spelling.

UK English is gradually moving towards US English. What is really interesting is the development of subsets of English in Asia. There are Indian and Chinese variants of English that would sound weird to a UK or US speaker but are understood by tens of millions of people.

Og