A Simple Thing in response to *TAKE ME*(feedback please)

[artful]

The Happening

Falling in to you
And loving who I choose
Though times I'm not so fair
In truth she knows I care

It's not that she's aware
Of all the strength that's there
But time will give the proof
My life is lived in truth

To sit within a dim lit booth
Or gaze at stars high on a roof
It matters not where at we be
But only that she is with me

In heart or mind our love can see
Romance that clings so tight yet free
Though passions raise as lust will call
Know now our friends fear not the fall

For heavens gate not out of reach
Come learn the song we now can teach
The notes so clear with words in key
How Art and dream fall in to me




Dedicated to the one who continues to inspire me,
my dream.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Artful

 

[Unmasked Poet]

Sugar Shock!

There is quite a bit wrong with this poem. If you are truly interested in improving as a writer I will take the time to comment. If this is just an over laden cliched response to your sub then I need do nothing. She has already gleamed all that can be gotten from it. This would better be sent in a pm directly to her. Where she could coo over it and love you all the more. For me I can tell you it makes my eyes water and I don’t mean that in a good way. If you would actually like to improve this poem I suggest you first remove every word you have written down.

Let’s take a look at the first stanza. I will only go further if you want me to.

The Happening

Falling in to you
And loving who I choose
Though times I'm not so fair
In truth she knows I care

It is difficult to start, I would first suggest you examine each line. I take it from the first line you have become attached to this person. I would recommend you find a less common way to say it. The line “falling in to you.” is so cliché as to be rendered useless in poetry. As a love letter it still works, but this poetry. Find another way without using phrases you have heard or muttered before. Start your poem with a declaration you would actually say. I would hazard to guess that you are a beginning poet. Try not to borrow the sweetness you have read on every greeting card. Use your own voice, not some made up persona backlit by candlelight and roses.

The second line is not much better. The two rhyming lines at the end of the stanza (couplet) are childlike. Pick more intense or adult words to rhyme on. If you must rhyme do so carefully. Rhyming is an art in poetry. But then poetry itself is an art . How about rethink the first line, and what you want to say in the first stanza. If you send me a pm or respond to this thread I will work with you. If you do that I can guarantee you will end up with a better poem and it will sound like you instead of everyone else who tries to write a love poem.

U.P.

 

[~Dream~]

With Artful's permission,

HMMMMM very very interesting.... wonder what He's really up to?/ I agrr but love your poem so much baby "just the way it is " as in anyone else well poetry IS in the eye of the beholder after all...

I feel such love
buring intense in my heart
throughout my body
feelings trying to escape
wanting to come out
moans deep within
yearning ever yearning.....

 

[WickedEve]

Re: With Artful's permission,

HMMMMM very very interesting.... wonder what He's really up to?/ I agrr but love your poem so much baby "just the way it is " as in anyone else well poetry IS in the eye of the beholder after all...

I feel such love
buring intense in my heart
throughout my body
feelings trying to escape
wanting to come out
moans deep within
yearning ever yearning.....

Wonder what who's up to? UP? Trust me, UP likes to help. He can give Artful and you wonderful tips on writing poetry, if either of you are interested. I understand that some people just like to write the occasional poem to their loved one. It may help when either of you post a poem to state whether you want feed back, or if you're just sharing. Usually when you post a poem on this board, it's for feedback.
But no matter what, dream, you should cherish what Artful wrote to you. His words are meant for you.
And Artful, if you want to write better poetry, listen to UP. He's the Master... at poetry that is. lol

 

[~Dream~]

With Artful's permission,

Point well taken Eve(geez why do i feel I was just scolded?lol)
dream only remembers the ridicule that i faced as dreamangel_4980 at the hands of U.P. and thats what REALLY worried me .. I shall take your word for it that He's a Master(at poetry that is .. everyone knows I have the TRUE Master(wink).. I love your new avy Wicked one.. ty and yes we are both wise enuf to accept feedback from more experienced poets <<huggs>>

 

[Senna Jawa]

quote:

Originally posted by Artful's dream

The Happening

Falling in to you
[...]




Dedicated to the one who continues to inspire me,
my dream.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Artful

Love, hate and emotions in general, that's general, generic (the same goes for ideas about the world, for philosophical ideas, etc). It's the concrete moments which have a chance to be different, and the way we look at them, the way they r associated one with another. When U write about love in general terms it is doomed to be cliched, void of any originality. When U write strictly like a reporter then the chances for something original are high and U do not need to strain at originality (one should never), U don't need any gimmicks (they only cheapen a text).

In your poem U do not even attempt to say anything (anything that counts, anything concrete). Nothing in, nothing out.

To get a meaningful poem U have to change your whole attitude toward poetry, U have to view poetry differently than U do.

Write something small, specific, and induce in your reader emotions -- then U'r a poet. But when U only proclaim infinite emotions then your reader can only say "good for U", and that's it, no poetry. (Sure, naive readers will say, oh, I was in love too, I know what U mean, oh, man, I am reduced to tears -- but that's not poetry, it is just popular socializing).

Regards,

 

[WickedEve]

Re: With Artful's permission,

Point well taken Eve(geez why do i feel I was just scolded?lol)
dream only remembers the ridicule that i faced as dreamangel_4980 at the hands of U.P. and thats what REALLY worried me .. I shall take your word for it that He's a Master(at poetry that is .. everyone knows I have the TRUE Master(wink).. I love your new avy Wicked one.. ty and yes we are both wise enuf to accept feedback from more experienced poets <<huggs>>

Oh, you're not being scolded. lol
I just noticed that Artful has (feedback please) in his post subject. How do I overlook stuff like that?
Anyway...


Falling in to you
And loving who I choose
Though times I'm not so fair
In truth she knows I care

Maybe in this first stanza you can think of ways that you are not fair, and how you know she cares. Think of ways to personalize this poem. Then think of new ways to say it. Read some of the poetry posted on this board to see how different poets express themselves.

 

[artful]

UP and all others,...thanks for the feedback!

To be sure, I really do appreciate all the feedback. In explanation, Artful's dream is a tad bit overprotective in defending me,due to a recent attack on my character.

I readily accept your offer to work with me on these words, to create something poetic from it.

A needless confession to you, but perhaps needful to those who may read this thread.
1)-I know nothing about poetry
2)-It was my attempt to make a personal poem to Artful's dream.
**************************************************
A)-I had thought putting words together, in a (meaningful) way to me, with some form of disciplined structure,of how the words were placed
was enough to make a poem. EXAMPLE: The rhyming of the two bottom lines to the top two lines etc.

B)-Although you referenced the "falling into you"
line as being cliche',please understand, I had not heard that line until yesterday. *blush*

 

[WickedEve]

Re: UP and all others,...thanks for the feedback!

B)-Although you referenced the "falling into you"
line as being cliche',please understand, I had not heard that line until yesterday. *blush*

Interesting what you said about not hearing the phrase "falling into you" before. I haven't heard it much myself, and that was one of the lines I liked in your poem.
That's one reason you need to read lots of poetry, so you can have an idea about what's cliché and what's not. I think an occasional clichéd phrase in a poem can work if that poem has some fresh images and is well-written.
Poetry that I would have enjoyed just 6 months ago, I now quickly pass over. It's like having your eyes opened to things that are now so obvious. So much poetry sounds the same. It's as though the majority of poets are sharing one mind, one perception, one imagination. But if you read and write enough poetry, a light bulb will go off. And when that happens that's just the beginning...

 

[artful]

Thank You Eve

I would like to get my light lit here on this thread!

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: UP and all others,...thanks for the feedback!

[...] Although you referenced the "falling into you"
line as being cliche',please understand, I had not heard that line until yesterday. *blush*

It does not matter much that U didn't run into this phrase in the past. Neither did I.

When a phrase is common then U can still use it but U have to take into account its used condition (for instance, the phrase may be pronounced in your poem by an assumed voice or whatever, it's a separate topic).

Even when a phrase was never used before, it may sound like a cliche and then it is as bad as a cliche, and for all practical )) purposes it is a cliche. This happens when your phrase is smooth-generic and hangs there by itself as a kind of decoration out of any artistic context. If U had a juxtaposition, if snow flakes or rain drops or a stone or birds during a severe winter were falling, then there would be a chance for something fresh, poetic (be careful: snow flakes or rain drops falling are cliches! But a combination may still ring with its own sound). Then "falling in you" would not be just a smooth expression, it would be more than a generic abstract phrase. Instead, U would create an image, you would fall like a frozen bird. U need still more. It is not enough to create an image. I am not talking about any tricks, practised by renowned authors: they know about images, so they slap an image after an image, as a matter of their technique. Those images should be IT, that's what should make the poem, that's what the poem should be about, the images should have their life and their story. And all the emotional business (love or whatever, which U spell out explicitly in your poem) should be felt only indirectly, thru these images. That's the poetry way, the poetry way of communicating emotions.

In my opinion U have to start anew. In my opinion in your text U have exactly zero, nothing to start with, nothing to improve upon. Each your stanza can be, conceptually, a theme for hundreds of twenty line or longer poems, meaning once again that U have nothing in it. But it's fun to start anew )

On the strictly technical side: U like to rhyme, and U like to write in a melodic way, which is very nice. However the constraints of the selected form should not induce U into giving up on the quality of language, your language should rise to the dignity of being poetry. Thus U have to work hard. U should not rhyme "aware" with "that's there" because the latter expression is horrible, it has nothing to do with poetry, see the whole line:

    Of all the strength that's there

it is a quite long line but it has only one meaningful word: strength, and even this one meaningful word is used in a meaningless way (there is no clue about this "strength" in your poem). If U think about it, the noun strenght is already an abstraction. It is not like table apple cloud floor shoe pigeon, it is a derivative of adjective strong.

Good luck on your new poems.

Regards,

 

[artful]

Thank You Senna

I will chew on that for a while,...and see if I can understand what you've said.

Sincerely.....................................Art

 

[karmadog]

Artful, you are wise to look into and think about what SJ and UP say. They have both helped me a lot. I am still trying to incorporate some of Senna's philosphies into my poetry. I have to admit that his suggestions, as seemingly esoteric as they are, have helped me quite a bit. In another thread he mentioned that the poet should keep philosophy out of one's poems. That the reader can bring their own with them. I think this is wise advice. I followed that sort of advice with my prose (KM's mantra: show it don't tell it), but had never considered it with poetry. That was my bad.

Both of these people have apparently read extensively and thought about poetry for many years.

 

[artful]

Poetry 101

With very little in hand, Art peeks into empty classroom. Seeing no one about, he slinks to the front row,lays his pencil, paper, and 4 erasers on the middle desk, and reads what has been written on the chalkboard.

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Poetry 101

With very little in hand, Art peeks into empty classroom. Seeing no one about, he slinks to the front row,lays his pencil, paper, and 4 erasers on the middle desk, and reads what has been written on the chalkboard.

Your assignment:
Let's start out simple. Look around the room, pick out something like a chair, table with a lamp, anything. Study it for a moment. Look at the shape, color, etc. Now write 3 separate descriptions of the item you chose.

Example of how you may describe a table:
In the first description give the basics: Brown table, four legs, wood, square, etc.
Second description: oak table, legs that curve, sits in the corner, photo in a frame sits on it.
Third: The oak wood is scarred across the top where I stabbed it with a letter opener, after reading her goodbye. The smooth legs curve out the same way hers once did. An old photo of her smiling is in the brass oval frame, with the broken glass.

Hopefully, this will help you see more than just the basics. Then after this, you can work on expressing your third description in a new way. (I love metaphors)

It squats in corner shadows on spread legs,
holding her forever smiling face.
She beckons from behind cracked glass.
I reach past broken letter opener and goodbyes,
but dare not cross the line gouged deeply in the oak.


Okay, that was a freakin' quickie, but an example of how you can use your descriptions to make a poem.

In the poem above I describe the table, with the curved legs, as squatting on spread legs. And I placed it in the corner in shadows, since this poem is about lost love. And instead of saying that there is a photo on top, I say "holding her forever smiling face." Then hopefully, when the reader reads about her being behind broken glass, they will get a sense that things have gone wrong. "I reach past broken letter opener and goodbyes" should say to the reader that her goodbyes were in a letter, and that he was so upset that he broke the letter opener somehow. And in the last line, the reader finds out how. There's a gouge across the oak. And he dares not cross it, because he is reminded once again of how she left him. So the reader now gets a picture that this guy misses this woman, until he's reminded of the heartache she left him with.

Okay, Artful, your turn to write. If you want, just start out with the descriptions.

 

[artful]

1~The monitor, square and flat faced, sometimes dark, but mostly lit, sits upon it's round pedestal.

2~Plastic framed, with a glass front, the web unfolds before my eyes, visions of numbers and letters to places I can see.

3~Unmoving, the cursor blinks on the screen, beckoning for life from my feeble fingers, forgotten buttons in a row adorn the bottom, crowded together saying, "Don't touch me!"

 

[Rybka]

Monitor Lizard

Artful, Here's a quick first try for you.

1~The monitor, square and flat faced, sometimes dark, but mostly lit, sits upon it's round pedestal.

2~Plastic framed, with a glass front, the web unfolds before my eyes, visions of numbers and letters to places I can see.

3~Unmoving, the cursor blinks on the screen, beckoning for life from my feeble fingers, forgotten buttons in a row adorn the bottom, crowded together saying, "Don't touch me!"

Consider this center justified.

Komodo


The square and flat-faced lizard dreams darkly upon it's rounded pedestal
An unmoving pupil stares from the center of one great glassy eye.

Visions of places and things undiscovered form a web drawing life from me.
Feeble fingers flick forward
toward
Button teeth
All in a row
say
"Beware
There be dragons here".

 

[artful]

I think...

I followed Eve's thinking,...and I can see the connection between my descriptions and what you wrote Rybka,...but without having those descriptions in my minds eye,...only reading what you wrote,...I could never have made those connections,...let alone pull a meaning out of it.

BTW, what does,"Center Justified" mean, and why the long and short lines?

 

[Rybka]

Center Justify

BTW, what does,"Center Justified" mean, and why the long and short lines?

It means everything is centered on the page, as in this piece:Schiller Glaze which also makes use of some other formatting options.

By "Center Justifying" and/or carefully choosing where you place the words on a page you can create a visual pattern and also imply alternative meanings without using punctuation that might limit the number of ways a piece may be read/interpreted.

In contrast, this forum, as most text in English, uses "Left Justification". That is, starts at the left margin.
Hebrew, I think, is "Right Justified".

Regards, Rybka

 

[artful]

Re: Center Justify

It means everything is centered on the page, as in this piece:Schiller Glaze which also makes use of some other formatting options.
Regards, Rybka

Ok,...I understand the right, left and center justified,...LOL,...I think. Thanks Art

 

[artful]

Attempt-Titled(Time and Again)

The square and flat faced pandora's box
lights as it opens to reveal
shadowy secrets and
brighten the face
of one who does
searching
and
fingering
through sludged
efforts slow keys
coded for all to know
that presents visions where
is sometimes blinded by what can be seen

EDITED TO ADD:

Consider this center justified(shape of hourglass)
(the passage of time)

 

[~Dream~]

just a thought...

not only did i LOVE the poem in it's original form (cause I can and cause it was meant for me) but,I'd like to say that I LOVE MY master's willingness to learn new things and to try to improve on his poetry and I feel He is a great inspiration to myself and others by doing so..
that was beautiful..my love and I feel NO need to defend You or my feelings ,you are truly gifted in too many ways to explain in this thread alone ..

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Attempt-Titled(Time and Again)

The square and flat faced pandora's box
lights as it opens to reveal
shadowy secrets and
brighten the face
of one who does
searching
and
fingering
through sludged
efforts slow keys
coded for all to know
that presents visions where
is sometimes blinded by what can be seen

EDITED TO ADD:

Consider this center justified(shape of hourglass)
(the passage of time)

Artful, are you enjoying yourself? Be careful, or you'll get hooked on writing poetry.

Suggestion for the first line:
"Flat-faced pandora's box"

"shadowy secrets and
brighten the face"
I'm not sure if "shadowy secrets" and "brighten the face" work together. Shadowy secrets sounds a bit sinister.

But the rest of your poem is off to a good start.

By the way, I pasted your poem in an email and centered it. It looks really cool!

 

[artful]

Eve

Thanks for the feedback,...and others are welcome also.

 

[~Dream~]

In Re: hooked on poetry

I agree with Eve My Love,You may get hooked on it and I'm secretly hoping you do cause I happen to think you may just have unhidden talent just "lurking" in there(wink) I mean You are a talented songwriter and songs , alot of them are also poems ..