A Rose by any other Name.

[Ishmael]

The rise of the births of illegitimate children as far exceeded the the promises of those that have advocated abortion. Actually the increase in illegitimate births has exceeded the increase in abortions. Why?

Could it be that a child born of an unwed mother is now considered beyond the reach of public discussion? Could it be that we have become brow beaten into refering to the child as the child of an single mother instead of the dictioinary term. A Bastard?

And no matter what word or phrases we may use, is a bastard any different than the child born out of wedlock? Or the child of a single parent family (an oxymoron if I've ever heard on.), or an illegitimate child?

At what point does a Rose NOT become a rose? At what point does society decide that it really does take two parents of opposite sex to raise a child? At what point do we say that we just aren't going to pay for others bad decisions and that a Rose is still a Rose, no matter what the name we give it?

Did anyone ever consider that by calling a bastard a bastard the women that might give birth to bastards would think twice?

Ishmael

 

[Weevil]

The rise of the births of illegitimate children as far exceeded the the promises of those that have advocated abortion. Actually the increase in illegitimate births has exceeded the increase in abortions. Why?

Could it be that a child born of an unwed mother is now considered beyond the reach of public discussion? Could it be that we have become brow beaten into refering to the child as the child of an single mother instead of the dictioinary term. A Bastard?

And no matter what word or phrases we may use, is a bastard any different than the child born out of wedlock? Or the child of a single parent family (an oxymoron if I've ever heard on.), or an illegitimate child?

At what point does a Rose NOT become a rose? At what point does society decide that it really does take two parents of opposite sex to raise a child? At what point do we say that we just aren't going to pay for others bad decisions and that a Rose is still a Rose, no matter what the name we give it?

Did anyone ever consider that by calling a bastard a bastard the women that might give birth to bastards would think twice?

Ishmael

I don't know, Ish, aside from your high falootin' moral tone where's the evidence or even claim that being "illegitimate" is bad?

 

[Debbie]

Just call me nearly born a bastard, my mother
was very pregnant with me at their wedding.
As was I at mine.

A baby, born out of wedlock or from parents who
are married is still just that, a baby.

My step grandbabies are not bastards.
And anyone who referred to them that way
in my hearing would receive a rather nasty
mouth full.

Why should the so called 'sins' of unmarried
parents be visited upon innocent children?

 

[Mischka]

Did anyone ever consider that by calling a bastard a bastard the women that might give birth to bastards would think twice?

So are you advocating women have more abortions to avoid populating the world with bastards? Or perhaps that women should quit having sex with men, to avoid the risk of pregnancy?

It takes two to get pregnant. You and your hang up on women's wombs. Why not launch a tirade against all the guys spilling their sperm everywhere? Love how you don't even mention men's role in your post.

 

[k¡tty]

I despise that term bastard to describe a child born out of wedlock.

How is it the childs fault? My brother and his whatever she use to be, never married yet had 3 children. At the time that bothered me.. because I didn't want the kids to be teased, but now I'm glad they never did marry. Ugh she's a nut case.. but I digress. When my mother informed my father of my first nephew's impending arrival he asked, "So we are going to have a bastard for a grandchild". What a horrible thing to say, about his own grandson. He quickly apologized to my mother after having said it, quite possibly because he saw the look on her face and feared for his safety.

My question is this.. why does it soley fall onto the mother of the child? It takes two to conceive..

Oh and this is a stereotype of all mothers. Maybe you're thinking about women who survive from goverment benefits while they laze around doing nothing but other men and getting knocked up again and again to increase said benefits. But there are other women, good and decent women, who've been caught in situations.. after having a stupid moment or bc failing them, who do their best to raise their child without the dependancy of the goverment asst. programs.

 

[Weevil]

At what point does society decide that it really does take two parents of opposite sex to raise a child?

Also, why the unneccesary dig at homosexual couples? I'd rather have been raised in a happy, successful lesbian couple than in the psychotic traditional family environment I was raised in. I certainly couldn't have had a worse opinion of men than being sort of raised by my father.

 

[curious2c]

Ishmael...On this one I take grave exception. You seem to want to make this world a 'perfect' as you see it place. It isn't perfect. Mistakes happen all the time. It is the human nature again.

Secondly...I defy you to hold my grandson in your arms and say he is a bastard. If you did...well you may think you are pretty tough...but as a proud grandfather...I would kick your ass all over the map. He is a baby, and beautiful baby and he is much loved in his family. MUCH loved.

I have a question now. About you. I get the feeling that you must be a fundamentalist christian. ARE YOU? Your posts tonight seem to be pointing in that general direction. If you are such a beast as a F.C., then perhaps you should go with brother Joshua and learn the word.

 

[Ishmael]

So the 'relatavists' arrive.

Is a child born out of wedlock a 'bastard'?

The issue is NOT whether the child is a bastard or not, merely whether the child is acknowledged or not.

So, do you choose to argue symantic points?

Abortion is quite an aside Mischka, as you well know. I'm merely pointing out the falacy of the claim.

Is the child of an unwed mother NOT a bastard?

Ishmael

 

[Raina]

Bah. Nevermind. I shouldn't have even opened the thread, let alone posted to it.

 

[Weevil]

Did anyone ever consider that by calling a bastard a bastard the women that might give birth to bastards would think twice?

As to this part of the question I think that one of the reasons the term has fallen out of favour is that it has a negative connotation that is solely based on an outdated christian morality. That isn't to say that being born into a family of a married man and woman isn't a nice way for some people to be raised but it is by no means the only way that society finds acceptable.

Aside from the debatable issue of single parent vs a married couple the more pertinent argument here is the married couple vs. unmarried couple. Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russels kids seem to be doing allright, despite their parents having married.

If two people love each other and are committed to each other than, in terms of child rearing ability, what difference does it make to you if they're married or not?

Since there's no reasonable objection, using a word with negative connotations to describe their children seems silly

That Kate Hudson is one sexy bastard though.

 

[curious2c]

So the 'relatavists' arrive.

Is a child born out of wedlock a 'bastard'?

The issue is NOT whether the child is a bastard or not, merely whether the child is acknowledged or not.

So, do you choose to argue symantic points?

Abortion is quite an aside Mischka, as you well know. I'm merely pointing out the falacy of the claim.

Is the child of an unwed mother NOT a bastard?

Ishmael

I acknowledge that my grandson is my grandson. I acknowledge that my daughter is a mother with a beautiful baby. I acknowledge that you may be a bastard though.

 

[Weevil]

Is the child of an unwed mother NOT a bastard?

Ishmael

Sure, according to websters.

But society no longer deems having a kid out of wedlock unacceptable so the term has little meaning.

 

[Ishmael]

As to this part of the question I think that one of the reasons the term has fallen out of favour is that it has a negative connotation that is solely based on an outdated christian morality. That isn't to say that being born into a family of a married man and woman isn't a nice way for some people to be raised but it is by no means the only way that society finds acceptable.

Aside from the debatable issue of single parent vs a married couple the more pertinent argument here is the married couple vs. unmarried couple. Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russels kids seem to be doing allright, despite their parents having married.

If two people love each other and are committed to each other than, in terms of child rearing ability, what difference does it make to you if they're married or not?

Since there's no reasonable objection, using a word with negative connotations to describe their children seems silly

That Kate Hudson is one sexy bastard though.

Look at the dictionary.

Bastard: A child not born of parents married to each other.

Period. Find God in that. Or Christianity. Or Islam, or aetheism, or Hinduism.

Your perceptions and the perceptions of others don't change the facts, or the definitions.

Ishmael

 

[Weevil]

Look at the dictionary.

Bastard: A child not born of parents married to each other.

Period. Find God in that. Or Christianity. Or Islam, or aetheism, or Hinduism.

Your perceptions and the perceptions of others don't change the facts, or the definitions.

Ishmael

No Ish, you're correct in that sense I can't find Jebus in that.

But the fact remains that calling a child a Bastard has a negative connotation attached to it because of an outdated christian morality. That morality is outdated, the term has been deemed archaic, people are happier. Hoo-ray!

 

[Ishmael]

No Ish, you're correct in that sense I can't find Jebus in that.

But the fact remains that calling a child a Bastard has a negative connotation attached to it because of an outdated christian morality. That morality is outdated, the term has been deemed archaic, people are happier. Hoo-ray!

That's good 'Bug'. You might finally be getting it.

In the 1950's illegitimate births (bastards) only constituted 3% of all births. Illegitimate (bastards) now constitute 25% of all births. The greater percentage of these are unacknowledged bastards. Please explain to me why I should support a child that is not supported by his/her own father? Please explain to me why society as a whole has an obligation to those that engage in a wholely elective act? Please explain to me why I, as a taxpayer, should have to contribute, unelectively, to the raising of someone else's bastard.

Please explain to me why I should pay for the consequences of someone else getting fucked?

Explain. NOW

Ishmael

 

[Weevil]

That's good 'Bug'. You might finally be getting it.

In the 1950's illegitimate births (bastards) only constituted 3% of all births. Illegitimate (bastards) now constitute 25% of all births. The greater percentage of these are unacknowledged bastards. Please explain to me why I should support a child that is not supported by his/her own father? Please explain to me why society as a whole has an obligation to those that engage in a wholely elective act? Please explain to me why I, as a taxpayer, should have to contribute, unelectively, to the raising of someone else's bastard.

Please explain to me why I should pay for the consequences of someone else getting fucked?

Explain. NOW

Ishmael

You could at least buy me dinner first.

My answer to all of those questions is that I believe the world should be a better place, by hook or by crook.

I'm sure it warms your heart knowing that most people would rather buy themselves a new satellite dish than feeding a hungry kid but me, I like to think that if people have such screwed up priorities than we shouldn' t trust them with their own money.

 

[Ishmael]

You could at least buy me dinner first.

My answer to all of those questions is that I believe the world should be a better place, by hook or by crook.

I'm sure it warms your heart knowing that most people would rather buy themselves a new satellite dish than feeding a hungry kid but me, I like to think that if people have such screwed up priorities than we shouldn' t trust them with their own money.

Weasle word bull shit bug/scruffy and you know it.

Ishmael

 

[Weevil]

Weasle word bull shit bug/scruffy and you know it.

Ishmael

No, I don't. I honestly feel that way. The reason you can't have a good debate with people, and consequently the reason nobody likes you, is that you don't see the legitimacy of the opposite POV.

And as such I live with my family in the socialist paradise that is Canada and you live in the United States, where you're much, much more likely to be the victim of a violent crime.

We all have our kinks, at the end of the day I suppose.

 

[phrodeau]

That's good 'Bug'. You might finally be getting it.

In the 1950's illegitimate births (bastards) only constituted 3% of all births. Illegitimate (bastards) now constitute 25% of all births. The greater percentage of these are unacknowledged bastards. Please explain to me why I should support a child that is not supported by his/her own father? Please explain to me why society as a whole has an obligation to those that engage in a wholely elective act? Please explain to me why I, as a taxpayer, should have to contribute, unelectively, to the raising of someone else's bastard.

Please explain to me why I should pay for the consequences of someone else getting fucked?

Explain. NOW

Ishmael

"Society as a whole" is responsible for promoting sexual experimentation and reproduction. It's in the media, the church, the government, the spam, everywhere. It's also instinctive.

You are a sexual being. That is not an elective. You are a taxpayer. That is.

 

[Ishmael]

No, I don't. I honestly feel that way. The reason you can't have a good debate with people, and consequently the reason nobody likes you, is that you don't see the legitimacy of the opposite POV.

And as such I live with my family in the socialist paradise that is Canada and you live in the United States, where you're much, much more likely to be the victim of a violent crime.

We all have our kinks, at the end of the day I suppose.

Presumptuous little bug too. lol

Because you don't like me, no one else does? Hmmmmmmmm, does that mean that because I think you're a vacuous entity everyone else does too?

What a hoot.

Back to the issue and the question. Defend and give your logic, accede and apologize. Or hold no feeling at all and get the fuck out of the thread.

No diff to me. I'll shove this logic up anyones ass.

Ishmael

 

[sigh]

Ishmael

I've never asked for a penny from you and have never taken a cent of taxpayers' money to raise my child. Take your evil generalizations elsewhere. To you all muslims are killers, all single mothers sluts, all babies abandoned by their fathers bastards and all witches beyond education.

Damn you, Ish. This is too fucking much. I'm not a relativist, you son of a bitch. I was a little girl who was raped by an asshole and my WHOLE FUCKING LIFE since then has been an attempt to ignore stares and whispers and innuendoes from dickheads like you who assume everything in life fits neatly into tidy little predefined packages of how things ought to be.




I'm too angry. I'm leaving NOW.

By the way, if you ever call my child a bastard to my face, I'll hit you so hard your knees will buckle and I don't care how damn big you are or how small I am.

GOD...what a fucking ASSHOLE you can be sometimes!

 

[Weevil]

Presumptuous little bug too. lol

Because you don't like me, no one else does? Hmmmmmmmm, does that mean that because I think you're a vacuous entity everyone else does too?

What a hoot.

Back to the issue and the question. Defend and give your logic, accede and apologize. Or hold no feeling at all and get the fuck out of the thread.

No diff to me. I'll shove this logic up anyones ass.

Ishmael

Boy conversations over christmas dinner at your house must be full of laughs.

I gave my answers, you've ducked them.

 

[Ishmael]

"Society as a whole" is responsible for promoting sexual experimentation and reproduction. It's in the media, the church, the government, the spam, everywhere. It's also instinctive.

You are a sexual being. That is not an elective. You are a taxpayer. That is.

So what you're saying here is that because of mass media exploitation of sex, we should expect the numbers of little bastards that we're seeing and that the taxpayer should foot the bill?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you have made an excellent case for censorship. Obviously we are not creatures of free will and are easily manipulated by the media. We have to control the media. Right?

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Boy conversations over christmas dinner at your house must be full of laughs.

I gave my answers, you've ducked them.

You've provided no answers at all. Just more of your bulll shit. Boy.

Wanna play 'tens'?

Ishmael

 

[Eumenides]

In The Complete Works of William Shakespeare, Abridged put on by the Reduced Shakespeare company, he says:

"A nose by any other name could still...smell"

That always cracks me up.


Yes, I read the title and not the thread. Sue me.