a question of morality

[bunny bondage]

ok, here's my story. years ago, in a bedroom far far away, i was involved quite intimately with these two girls. i was laying on my back next to another, while the third had one of us on each hand. the room was a symphony of moans and gasps. so several minutes later, we're traipsing downstairs to go to the kitchen or something and there, sitting on the couch, is someone else who lives in the house : a brother of one of the girls. he has a shit-eating grin on his face and it's obvious that he's been enjoying the audio show we had been putting on.

so my question is this : one of the girls he was listening to was his sister, but two were not, is this ok? if not, how many girls does it take until it's ok to listen to your sister's lesbian escapades?

 

[P. B. Walker]

I think we need more info...

a) was it impossible for him NOT to hear? I mean, could have turned on the TV to drown ya'll out? Or were ya'll so loud that he would have heard ya no matter what? Or could he have just left? Or would that have been to difficult or was it too late at night?

b) was he getting off on it (masturbating)? I mean was it obvious that he had a chubby or had just orgasmed himself?


I think him getting off on it would definitely never make it right. But at the same time, if it's very difficult for him to drown out the sound, then who can blame him? Just because he was forced to listen doesn't mean he enjoyed it or got off on it.

And of course the shit-eating-grin could have just been because he felt it was funny. People tend to get those kinds of grins when they are around couple (or 3somes) that have been busted having sex. Not just lesbians or gay men.

What if the two women making the noises were not his sisters? Would it be ok for him to listen then? In that situation it's just a woman (that isn't related to him) having an orgasm. Most men that are attracted to women would indeed find that stimulating.

This also raises the question: what if he was attracted to his sister, but had never done anything about it? Is it inherently bad to be attracted to your sister? Yes, I agree it is wrong to engage in sexual activity with your sister. But just be attracted to her?

I know when I was a little kid (4, 5, 6 years old... something like that)... I was visiting my aunt and uncles. One evening after me and my cousin had been out playing and gotten very dirty, my aunt dragged us both into the shower and washed us. The only other naked woman I'd ever seen before was my mother. But seeing my aunt naked was an entirely different matter. I think that was the very first time in my life I remember being sexually aroused. Did anything ever happen? nah. Do I find her attractive now? nah. In that situation I think it was just human nature and not so much a question of mortality. So, no I think just be attracted to a family member is not immoral, but rather just human nature. Acting on it, yes, can be immoral.


k... nuff rambling... lol

PBW

 

[bunny bondage]

oh wow, i was just introducing it as a light funny topic, but ok, here's the specifics.

he probably could have drown us out or left. he was about 20 at the time, and had a truck, so if he really wanted to, he could have taken off.

he wasn't masturbating when we walked down, but we had been up there for quite some time.

the shit-eating grin as he met our eyes was the funniest thing ever. maybe you're right, perhaps he was just smugly saying "caught ya!"

i really really don't think the brother was attracted to the sister. i really don't.

 

[bharman4102]

how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?

I think the answer is 3!

 

[Cirrus]

OK, shoe on the other foot here. If it were me, and a guy and a girl, or even three guys I was hearing, and one of them were my brother, I know I would get turned on.

Not because it's my brother, but just the audio would do it. I'd be conjuring up all sorts of images, though not necessarily about my sibling. And maybe it was the fact that he COULDN'T see that would do it. I know I wouldn't want to actually watch my brother have sex, but it would have an effect on me by hearing it.

I think even if he was aroused, it would be pretty normal, and most likely have nothing to do with incestuous thoughts at all.

 

[WriterDom]

I think we need more info...

Fuck the info Dude, what we need are pictures.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Fuck the info Dude, what we need are pictures.

lmao... right on.

I had to wonder when she said "while the third had one of us on each hand". That conjures up fisting.

Pictures of that would be hot... especially if the two women are bound up tight and gagged.

PBW

 

[naaki]

you GUYS. Crass...so crass...

 

[bunny bondage]

there was no fisting, i've never fisted before and have no real intentions of ever doing it (though He has mentioned it a few times....eek) i wish i had pictures, but this was a couple of years ago, and i've since lost contact with both girls.

just thought the forum seemed depressed lately so i figured i'd throw in something else to think about! ^_^

 

[P. B. Walker]

there was no fisting, i've never fisted before and have no real intentions of ever doing it (though He has mentioned it a few times....eek) i wish i had pictures, but this was a couple of years ago, and i've since lost contact with both girls.

just thought the forum seemed depressed lately so i figured i'd throw in something else to think about! ^_^

It was definitely a lovely thought bunny

And it made me think some... so you accomplished both missions.

PBW

 

[KingII]

I like this one ........

Have you thought of it from his perspective ........ my oh my
Think of the mental anguish he must have been going through ;
Is that my sister .....?
What could they be doing to her.....?
If he as a big brother did not make sure his lil sis was ok ..... he would have not been doin his job.
And can you imagine what it took to just leave her in thier wondering if she was moaning out of pleasure or pain.

And to imagine what he went through after you all walked down the steps.
If the body in that picture is yours ...... and the other two looked anything like your picture ....
He is probably still upset today that he did not get an invite...
Counceling and years of fantasy torture may still be in his future...

In psychology they say some people have many problem from not fulfilling or understanding stressful points in thier life.....nursing, potty training, puberty....and such. Can you imagine how much not fulfilling this momentious occasion might have influenced this fellas future.

And that grin ......... hiding tears I would imagine!
........possibly releif ........ knowing that what ever you were doing to his sis was overwith.

He and sis probably shared many things before that day, but did she share then .......... I wonder if they still talk ???? do you know?

I might suggest you go find this fella and help him through what ever he may need to make his life complete ....... I know a cheap private eye that can probably find those girls too.

(closeing my eye to imagine)

L

oops ..... forgot to hit submit ..............smile

 

[bunny bondage]

LOL! oh, that's cute.

and yes, it's me in my av, so thanks! ^_^

 

[Never]

bunny bondage:
“so my question is this : one of the girls he was listening to was his sister, but two were not, is this ok? if not, how many girls does it take until it's ok to listen to your sister's lesbian escapades?”

I think the question you asked and the question you meant to ask are quite different.

I agree with PWB, it does not matter if this was his sister or not. In fact, I will do him one better and say the gender does not matter either. The important facts are that we have one person or persons who is aware that a second person or persons is engaged in what is typically a private act and the second person doesn’t know that the first has that awareness.

Now, let us step back for a moment and consider what a ‘normal’ person in our culture might consider immoral and why it would or would not be immoral.

I live on the fourth floor of a dormitory and there is a ledge outside my window. I put sunflower seeds on the ledge every other day for the squirrels and groups of them tend to congregate there. Sometimes they eat, sometimes they play, sometimes they wrestle, and sometimes they enjoy sweet, sweet squirrelly lovin’. I watch all of this without a bit of guilt for three reasons.
1. The sight of squirrels getting it on does not arouse me. If that sight aroused me, I would be using the squirrels for my own pleasure at which point I would have to make sure that I was following the wishes and desires of the squirrels.
2. The squirrels are not hurt by my watching. If my watching caused the squirrels distress, I would have to justify my watching them.
3. They are animals. If two people with the mental facilities of squirrels were having sex in front of me, I would look away even if they did not mind and even if I was not aroused by the sight.

Okay, now lets move on to a different situation. I am talking with a friend of mine in her room and she decides to change into her pajamas. There she is, stripping in front of me, revealing her smooth carameled colored belly and soft pert breasts. Let’s say that, once more, I’m not aroused by this at all. She’s just a friend changing into her pajamas and my watching her while we talk doesn’t bother her. Well, we’ve satisfied the requirements above but my friend is a human and, as such, I’m morally obliged (according to some schools of thought) to respect her humanity and allow her to be an autonomous agent. A person is autonomous insofar as they can make choices and a person can only make choices based on information they have, therefore a person’s autonomy is based on the information they have and if I keep relevant information from her while she’s making a choice I’m interfering with her autonomy. That’s immoral. What’s relevant information? Anything that may affect her choice.

Therefore, if my friend is stripping in front of me (a choice) and there is relevant information I think she’s lacking (say, my sexual orientation) I am obliged to tell her it or look away but I’m not obliged to tell her that I was born in Portland, Oregon. Unless, that is, I have some reason to believe that she refuses to take her clothes off while people born on the West Coast are in the room.

Okay, let us say that she knows my sexual orientation and still has no problem with stripping in front of me. This time, however, the sight of her nubile flesh arouses me some awful. I inform her of this and she still chooses to take her close off. I can watch her now and it is perfectly moral, right? I wish.

Now I am using her and even though I’m doing so with her consent and full knowledge it might be immoral. Say my friend is incredibly drunk. Now, in order to be autonomous she must both have information and be intelligent and lucid enough to make choices. Even if she woke up this morning and decided to get plastered and thus interfere with her own autonomy it is still immoral for me to watch when, if she was intelligent and lucid, she would not be stripping.

Okay, okay, let us pretend that she is informed, intelligent, and lucid. I can now use her. Damn it took long enough. I have to make certain, however, that while I’m using her a means to my own pleasure I’m not using her as a mere means. I have to respect her humanity or else I’m doing something inherently immoral.


*head explodes*

 

[Never]

I'll finish with my answer later.

 

[bunny bondage]

*begins crying*

 

[Never]

bunny bondage:
“*begins crying*”

I know, I know. I want to see her naked as well but that will never happen until I get rid of that damn boyfriend.

 

[Marquis]

Never, you think way too much (possibly even more than I do).

Just look at her damn titties.

And tell us about them.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Just where are you going with this response Never? LOL...

I hope you succeed in your quest though... if you do... you must come back and share the details.

PBW "Hey, I'm as big a perv as the next guy"

 

[KingII]

normal.......

(hands bunny a whole box of kleenex ......)
Gets out THE BIG dictionary ......

and looks up the word .......... normal.....


.


..


...



.........."yep"...............



L

 

[Lancecastor]

A slightly different example to add to BB and Never's examples...

A good buddy of mine was in rehab for his cystal meth habit. Before checking in, he asked me to keep an eye on his live-in girlfriend, a stunning brunette bartender with a wandering er...eye.

I agreed to do so as he was my buddy, though she had a nasty and highly arousing habit of doing lap dance strip shows in front of us to change two or three times every time I'd visit to go out with them.

The following Saturday she called to ask if I'd take her out, to which I agreed.

I showed up late on purpose, hoping she'd be dressed.

She wasn't. She had just done her make-up and glossy red lipstick, wearing stockings and a short black satin housejacket, undone.

She coyly proceeded to show me how she'd shaved that day, pulling on her pussy lips while spread on the couch, then getting out a large vibe and asking me to roll a joint.

A question of morality: What do you do?

Lance

 

[P. B. Walker]

She coyly proceeded to show me how she'd shaved that day, pulling on her pussy lips while spread on the couch, then getting out a large vibe and asking me to roll a joint.

A question of morality: What do you do?

Lance

I can't even get my mind around that one... I think I would be telling her good she tastes in a matter of minutes.

PBW

 

[bunny bondage]

hmm....oh jeez. well, she's obviously flirty, and makes no attempt to hide this from her boyfriend...but i guess there's a difference between acting like a slut and being a slut, so perhaps the boyfriend didn't think one could lead to the other. ok, so she's naked, vibeing herself, and asking you to roll a joint. ok, first off, roll the damn joint, you'll need to be stoned to get through this evening. play, flirt, don't touch! don't be afraid to have fun with this, it can be very sexually affirming to engage in some hot flirting. but come on, don't touch. if all goes well, you could get through the night with a lot of laughs and enough innuendos hanging in the air that you'll have to open a window. but now here's the real tricky part : what if she touches you. well you can't very well push her off you, that would be rude and hurt her feelings and she'd probably cry and THEN what a fucking scene you've landed in. so this is when you have to decide : do you fuck her and love every minute of it or not fuck her and marvel at the strength of your friendship with her boyfriend. oh jesus. this is hard. well i assume this happened, what DID you do?

 

[Never]

Lancecastor:
"A question of morality: What do you do?"

Tell her that I hope she has a good night and then leave.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Lancecastor:
"A question of morality: What do you do?"

Tell her that I hope she has a good night and then leave.

And then take a very very long very very cold shower. ;-)


PBW

 

[Never]

Indeed..